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Author Topic: Highest km-marker in Canada (and North America)?  (Read 13762 times)

oscar

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Highest km-marker in Canada (and North America)?
« on: October 26, 2012, 08:29:57 PM »

Here's a photo of km-marker 1902 along the Alaska Highway (YT 1), just east of the U.S. border, which I took in late July of this year:



The Alaska Highway used to have higher km-markers, topping out in 2001 at km 1962 about 5 km east of the U.S. border.  Since then, however, Yukon Territory re-calibrated its km-markers, to reflect realignments of the Alaska Highway in the Yukon and British Columbia.

This prompts two questions:

-- Is the new km-marker 1902 still the highest-numbered km-marker in Canada, or North America?  (I'm pretty sure that Ontario 11, which also has high-numbered km-markers, falls just a little short.)

-- If Quebec ever fills in the gap between the main and Blanc Sablon segments of QC 138, and places km-markers on the latter (there weren't any in August 2011), would it have km-markers above 1902?
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Re: Highest km-marker in Canada (and North America)?
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2012, 09:13:44 PM »

Does Quebec milepost every route? I can only recall seeing it on autoroutes and high-grade corridors. My guess is that even if the route is longer than 1902 km, it won't be mileposted. (Note: "milepost" is the verb from centuries ago, even if we're not talking miles.)

oscar

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Re: Highest km-marker in Canada (and North America)?
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2012, 09:29:06 PM »

Does Quebec milepost every route? I can only recall seeing it on autoroutes and high-grade corridors. My guess is that even if the route is longer than 1902 km, it won't be mileposted. (Note: "milepost" is the verb from centuries ago, even if we're not talking miles.)

QC 138 has km-posts, topping 1000, on the segment I drove last year between QC 170 and Sheldrake.
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Re: Highest km-marker in Canada (and North America)?
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2012, 10:52:58 PM »

Québec posts km markers on non-autoroutes only in remote areas.
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Re: Highest km-marker in Canada (and North America)?
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2012, 11:57:52 PM »

Ontario has started posting km markers on some of the more remote segments of Hwy 11 and 17.  The highest km post I have seen is in the 1200 range to the north end of Sault Ste. Marie.

This pic was taken north of Wawa:
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Re: Highest km-marker in Canada (and North America)?
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2012, 09:43:06 AM »

Per Wikipedia:

BC 97       2081.0 km
ON 17      1962.0 km
ON 11      1780.2 km
QC 138    1389.3 km

So, we've got a couple other candidates here.
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Re: Highest km-marker in Canada (and North America)?
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2012, 11:47:39 AM »

Per Wikipedia:

BC 97       2081.0 km
ON 17      1962.0 km
ON 11      1780.2 km
QC 138    1389.3 km

So, we've got a couple other candidates here.

BC 97's km-markers reset to zero at Dawson Creek, where the Alaska Highway begins.  Dawson Creek is km 0 for YT 1 as well, and mile 0 for the Alaska Highway segment of AK 2.  Alaska hasn't re-calibrated its Alaska Highway mileposts in many years, so it has a stable highest milepost 1421 (plus a mile 1422 monument) in Delta Junction AK.

I don't recall seeing high km-markers at the west end of ON 17, when I traveled that stretch twice this summer.  I think at that point, the km-markers run from west to east (rather than the reverse for the rest of ON 17), with km 0 at the MB/ON border. 

ON 11's km-markers definitely run from east to west on its westernmost Rainy River segment.  They also start at around 100 at its easternmost point (picking up on ON 400's kilometerage, where ON 11 peels away).  But still it would fall a little short of YT 1's km-marker 1902.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2012, 02:13:53 PM by oscar »
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Re: Highest km-marker in Canada (and North America)?
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2012, 01:26:47 PM »

-- If Quebec ever fills in the gap between the main and Blanc Sablon segments of QC 138, and places km-markers on the latter (there weren't any in August 2011), would it have km-markers above 1902?

That would be a pretty long haul, wouldn't it?

The (English-language) Wikipedia article about PQ 138 says:

Quote
On August 25, 2006, the Quebec government announced a 10-year project to build 425 kilometres of highway along the north shore, excluding a 40 kilometre gap at a major river crossing, the Natashquan, which will require further study.

If the existing 138 is about 1389 km long (per Wikipedia - not sure if that includes the Blanc Sablon segment existing today), then it seems than an extended 138 is only about 1854 km long (including 425 km of new highway and the 40 km needing "further study").

Edit: Hyperlinked the PQ 138 wikipedia article.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2012, 08:44:40 AM by cpzilliacus »
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Re: Highest km-marker in Canada (and North America)?
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2012, 02:11:37 PM »

If the existing 138 is about 1389 km long (per Wikipedia - not sure if that includes the Blanc Sablon segment existing today), then it seems than an extended 138 is only about 1854 km long (including 425 km of new highway and the 40 km needing "further study").

If the 1854 km figure doesn't include the Blanc Sablon segment, which is about 70 km long (it extends west to Old Fort), QC 138 could eventually overtake Canada's part of the Alaska Highway -- especially if the latter keeps shrinking as its curvier segments are straightened, and if periodic re-calibrations reflect those realignments.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2012, 03:54:57 PM by oscar »
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Re: Highest km-marker in Canada (and North America)?
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2012, 04:25:53 PM »

R-138 passable with a passenger vehicle is actually about 1520-1525 kilometres long, if you add the 1392 km between Dundee and Natashquan river, 15 km in Kegaska, 4 km in Chevery, 17 km in Tête-à-la-Baleine, 15 km between Mutton Bay/Red Bay/La Tabatière, 4 km in Pakuashipi and 72.069 km between Vieux-Fort and QC/NL boundary.

Here is the marker


All of those mini-stretches are signed with R-138 shields, although they do not have direction plates (just plain shields and arrows). Some are even paved, but don't expect to get around without a pickup in winter, though.

Why did I say "passable with a passenger car?" : Winter.
Add another 499.6 km of "Route Blanche" ("White Route"), which is a portion of R-138 ―yes, it is signed as route 138―, only passable by snowmobile between Pointe-Parent and Québec/Newfoundland-and-Labrador boundary. The trail, maintained by the MTQ, mostly runs on ice. The Ministry of transportation also maintains a network of 23 rest and emergency shelters along the route. I don't know about a continuity in the markers with the "fixed" R-138, but the trail is definetly kilometre-posted.

Two of my uncles used to lived in Tête-à-la-Baleine. They say you can get good speed (50-60 mph) on certain stretches of the White Route, which would certainly not be the case in the event of a gravel road.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2013, 10:39:59 AM by webfil »
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Re: Highest km-marker in Canada (and North America)?
« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2012, 12:39:06 AM »

So within the gap between Natashquan and Vieux-Fort there are actually small stretches of paved highway signed as R-138, and in the winter they're all linked up by a snowmobile trail, but they're isolated during the summer?

I'm wondering because I've had an increasing interest in northern Canada lately and R-138 looks like it would be a particularly interesting drive, but I was under the impression that there is no other link to the Vieux-Fort - Blanc-Sablon section apart from the Trans-Labrador Highway.
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Re: Highest km-marker in Canada (and North America)?
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2012, 08:48:21 AM »

If the existing 138 is about 1389 km long (per Wikipedia - not sure if that includes the Blanc Sablon segment existing today), then it seems than an extended 138 is only about 1854 km long (including 425 km of new highway and the 40 km needing "further study").

If the 1854 km figure doesn't include the Blanc Sablon segment, which is about 70 km long (it extends west to Old Fort), QC 138 could eventually overtake Canada's part of the Alaska Highway -- especially if the latter keeps shrinking as its curvier segments are straightened, and if periodic re-calibrations reflect those realignments.

Curious about extreme eastern areas of Quebec along the north shore of the Gulf of St. Lawrence.  From the geographic names around there (such as Old Fort), it seems that English may predominate over French.  Is that correct, or are the names a just legacy of English-language exploration there? 

And I understand that the population there is pretty sparse to begin with.
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Re: Highest km-marker in Canada (and North America)?
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2012, 10:33:29 AM »

Curious about extreme eastern areas of Quebec along the north shore of the Gulf of St. Lawrence.  From the geographic names around there (such as Old Fort), it seems that English may predominate over French.  Is that correct, or are the names a just legacy of English-language exploration there?

My impression, from my quick drive out to Vieux-Fort and Old Fort Bay before turning east to the Trans-Labrador Highway, is that French predominates, with only scattered English place names like you see in some other parts of Quebec.

French-language place names bleed over into southern Labrador, starting with L'Anse-au-Clair (first town pn the TLH east of the border), with a few more examples before English place names take over. 
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Re: Highest km-marker in Canada (and North America)?
« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2012, 01:27:12 PM »

So within the gap between Natashquan and Vieux-Fort there are actually small stretches of paved highway signed as R-138, and in the winter they're all linked up by a snowmobile trail, but they're isolated during the summer?

Note quite isolated, but linked with a network of toll ferries, owned by la Société des Traversiers du Québec (a provincial government corporation, subsidiary of MTQ) :

  • N.M. Nordik-Express (operated by Groupe Desgagnés, a maritime corporation having operated on the northern coasts of the St. Lawrence for almost 150 years) ensures the Relais-Nordik ("northern relay", literally). It links Rimouski, Sept-Îles, Havre-Saint-Pierre, Natashquan, Port-Menier (Anticosti Island), Kegaska, La Romaine, Harrington-Harbour, Tête-à-la-Baleine, La Tabatière, Saint-Augustin and Blanc-Sablon. N.M. Nordik-Express carries passengers, small vehicles, cargo and bulk goods. It operates from April to January.

    Oh, and the ride is 78.5 hours long (4 days).
  • N.M. Mécatina operates on Harrington-Harbour―Chevery, on demand. Côte-Nord-du-Golfe-du-Saint-Laurent municipality is responsible for the administration of the cargo and taxi link.
  • Two small barges links Saint-Augustin and Pakuashipi, one for passengers operated by Saint-Augustin municipality, the other for cargo, operated by 9005-6425 Québec Inc. (AKA Transport Driscoll).

Route Blanche is exempt of any tolls or schedule.  :-P
That trail is a liberation for the villages down there, as they no longer depend on a weekly ferry or expensive plane seats ; Air Labrador offers multi-thousand-dollars plane tickets for lower north shore flights in 7 or 18-seater cuckoos (don't expect to find discounts on Expedia or Trip Advisor...).

I'm wondering because I've had an increasing interest in northern Canada lately and R-138 looks like it would be a particularly interesting drive.
It's a long, long drive, but BEAU-TI-FUL, according to every relative and every friend that lived or went on the North Shore. Glaciers really did a good landscaping job east of Sept-Îles.  :sombrero:
Count 10-12 hours for a safe drive between Tadoussac ferry and km 1392. The road is paved up to Pointe-Parent.

Curious about extreme eastern areas of Quebec along the north shore of the Gulf of St. Lawrence.  From the geographic names around there (such as Old Fort), it seems that English may predominate over French.  Is that correct, or are the names a just legacy of English-language exploration there?

My impression, from my quick drive out to Vieux-Fort and Old Fort Bay before turning east to the Trans-Labrador Highway, is that French predominates, with only scattered English place names like you see in some other parts of Quebec.

That is not exact. The vast majority of non-indian residents have english as mother-tongue.

According to the 2011 census, here are the stats :
  • Côte-Nord-du-Golfe-du-Saint-Laurent (settlements of Kegaska, Musquaro, Wolf Bay, Étamamiou, Chevery, Harrington Harbour, Aylmer Sound and Tête-à-la-Baleine) counts over 60% of english-speaking people (english or french AND english as mother-tongue);
  • Gros-Mécatina (mostly Mutton Bay, Red Bay and La Tabatière) counts 94% of native english people;
  • La Romaine has 99% of Indian language-speaker (innu, in that case), but 5% of the population declare to know English;
  • Data is unavailable for Pakuashipi, as an insignificant number of the census forms were completed -> the federal government stopped making completion of census mandatory;
  • Saint-Augustin counts 97% of native english people;
  • Bonne-Espérance (settlements of Vieux-Fort, Rivière-Saint-Paul, Salmon Bay and Middle Bay) counts over 97% of native english people;
  • Blanc-Sablon (settlements of Brador, Lourdes-de-Blanc-Sablon and Blanc-Sablon) counts 75% of native english people;
« Last Edit: October 28, 2012, 01:30:00 PM by webfil »
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Re: Highest km-marker in Canada (and North America)?
« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2012, 02:06:48 PM »

So it looks like it would be feasible to drive up to Natashquan, then catch a boat to Blanc-Sablon to drive that stretch and then maybe continue into Labrador, but it would cost a LOT of money. If I'm reading the rates right, carrying a vehicle between those two points costs over $400, plus over $100 per person, and takes from 8am Thursday to 7pm Friday.

Now I'm starting to think it might be a better idea to split this up into multiple trips, and just drive R-138 up to Natashquan/Pointe-Parent/km 1392 as one trip, and then snag the Blanc-Sablon section of R-138 as part of a trip across the Trans-Labrador Highway. I feel like spending 2 days on a boat as part of a roadtrip, and spending hundreds of dollars in the process, is not my idea of fun. Though probably by the time I could manage to afford this MTQ will have completed R-138 anyway, so maybe it won't matter!  :-D

Thank you for your answers! It's good to know we have someone on here so knowledgeable about this region.
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« Last Edit: October 28, 2012, 02:38:02 PM by webfil »
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Re: Highest km-marker in Canada (and North America)?
« Reply #16 on: October 29, 2012, 10:12:33 AM »

It looks like the "138 FIN" sign grew into looking much like the "END US 1" in Key West. :cool:
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Re: Highest km-marker in Canada (and North America)?
« Reply #17 on: April 12, 2020, 05:14:52 PM »

R-138 passable with a passenger vehicle is actually about 1520-1525 kilometres long, if you add the 1392 km between Dundee and Natashquan river, 15 km in Kegaska, 4 km in Chevery, 17 km in Tête-à-la-Baleine, 15 km between Mutton Bay/Red Bay/La Tabatière, 4 km in Pakuashipi and 72.069 km between Vieux-Fort and QC/NL boundary.

Here is the marker


All of those mini-stretches are signed with R-138 shields, although they do not have direction plates (just plain shields and arrows). Some are even paved, but don't expect to get around without a pickup in winter, though.

Dusting off this really ancient subtopic ...

I'm working on the Quebec part of the Travel Mapping project, and trying to nail down all the existing R-138 segments east of Kegaska. We already have the Tête-à-la-Baleine, Mutton Bay/Red Bay/La Tabatière, and Vieux-Fort/Blanc Sablon segments in the TM database (I drove the last segment in 2011), and already know about the proposed/in-progress new road that would connect the Tête-à-la-Baleine and La Tabatière segments.

About the Chevery segment, Open Street Map and Mapcarta show a QC 138 segment there, about 4 km long, matching the Transports Quebec/MTQ segments shown in various government online maps. (This segment is west of Harrington Harbour -- some online maps think Chevery is northeast of Harrington Harbour, connected by road to Tête-à-la-Baleine.) And a 2015 report from a Chevery resident states that Chevery has a 6-km long segment of 138. But the Transports Quebec/MTQ segments in Chevery are identified in government online maps as provincially-maintained, but with route numbers beginning with 50313 or 50349 rather than with 00138 for the Tête-à-la-Baleine and La Tabatière segments.

OSM, Mapcarta, and other private online maps I have reviewed don't identify any road in or connecting to Pakuashipi as a QC 138 segment. Transports Quebec/MTQ online maps show the road between the airport/St. Augustin passenger ferry and the Pointe-a-la-Truite main ferry dock (about 7 km long) as provincially-maintained, but similar to Chevery with route segment numbers beginning with 50341 or 50410 rather than 00138. Also, Quebec's 511 system map shows that segment (right now closed by bad weather) with a provincial route marker but no number. (Nothing about the status of the roads in Chevery, Tête-à-la-Baleine, and La Tabatière, not even the confirmation of good conditions on the Vieux-Fort/Blanc-Sablon segment.)

Also, this undated map indicates that a few km of QC 138 are already complete in La Romaine (and also in Chevery, but not Pakuashipi). This is similar to the Pakuashipi segment, with no unofficial online maps indicating the route designation, and official maps indicating a designation other than 138.

Any info I'm missing to confirm or not QC 138 segments in La Romaine, Chevery, and Pakuashipi, and whether they are signed as such? I've searched for "Romaine", "Chevery" and "Pakuashipi" in the French-language version of the Transports Quebec website (more complete than the English-language version -- English translations of some pages are available on the French site version), and got some results but they don't really answer my question. Not knowing much French, I don't know if I'm missing something on the Transports Quebec or other government websites.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2020, 06:47:14 PM by oscar »
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Re: Highest km-marker in Canada (and North America)?
« Reply #18 on: May 09, 2020, 08:48:31 PM »

Currently, the eastern segment of QC 138 isn't connected to the rest of QC 138, but it is connected to the main North American road network via the Trans-Labrador Highway and QC 389
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Re: Highest km-marker in Canada (and North America)?
« Reply #19 on: May 09, 2020, 09:17:53 PM »

Currently, the eastern segment of QC 138 isn't connected to the rest of QC 138, but it is connected to the main North American road network via the Trans-Labrador Highway and QC 389

Yep, that's the Blanc Sablon segment I drove in 2011 (on my way to taking on the Trans-Labrador).

There are two other isolated segments between Kegaska and Blanc Sablon that are officially part of QC 138, and three others that seem to be more of a mystery but look like perhaps "future 138" segments once Transports Quebec gets around to extending QC 138 east of Kegaska to La Romaine and beyond. Those mystery segments were the ones I was asking about.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2020, 09:38:37 PM by oscar »
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Re: Highest km-marker in Canada (and North America)?
« Reply #20 on: May 24, 2020, 10:09:13 PM »

Any info I'm missing to confirm or not QC 138 segments in La Romaine, Chevery, and Pakuashipi, and whether they are signed as such? I've searched for "Romaine", "Chevery" and "Pakuashipi" in the French-language version of the Transports Quebec website (more complete than the English-language version -- English translations of some pages are available on the French site version), and got some results but they don't really answer my question. Not knowing much French, I don't know if I'm missing something on the Transports Quebec or other government websites.

You are not missing much and you probably got most things right.

The account of Chevery resident is probably accurate; the stub might be still signed as 138 though they are not marked anymore as such in the MTQ inventory. Perhaps the ministry revised its numbering when the definite route was chosen. But one thing is certain, signage maintenance might not be a priority there (as well as in other parts of the province, where downloaded roads still have pre-90's signage), and might only come once the road is connected to the land.

I wouldn't bet on permanence of the Mutton Bay―La Tabatière R-138 designation, as the under-construction route circles the agglomeration to the north. As for the Pakuashipi road, I highly doubt it will ever bear R-138 designation; it's most certain that the new road will bypass Pakuashipi and Saint-Augustin to the far north, avoiding the need for a crossing over the large mouth of the Pakua sipi river.

It's probably the same for Vieux-Fort : R-138 will certainly be rerouted westward through the town.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2020, 10:11:59 PM by webfil »
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Re: Highest km-marker in Canada (and North America)?
« Reply #21 on: February 25, 2021, 03:39:58 AM »

Does Quebec milepost every route? I can only recall seeing it on autoroutes and high-grade corridors. My guess is that even if the route is longer than 1902 km, it won't be mileposted. (Note: "milepost" is the verb from centuries ago, even if we're not talking miles.)



On this map, the black lines are, in fact, dots, and each dot is a milepost.  As you can see, not all Quebec roads are mileposted.

You can find this map at https://geoegl.msp.gouv.qc.ca/igo2/apercu-qc/?context=mtq&visiblelayers=repere_km
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Re: Highest km-marker in Canada (and North America)?
« Reply #22 on: February 25, 2021, 04:51:56 AM »

(...)

-- If Quebec ever fills in the gap between the main and Blanc Sablon segments of QC 138, and places km-markers on the latter (there weren't any in August 2011), would it have km-markers above 1902?

...good question.  Actual last km-marker on QC-138 is 1418, just about 1,5 km before entering in the village of Kegaska. If we believe the MTQ when they say that about 400 km are missing on QC-138, and we add all actual sections of QC-138 not connected together yet, we'll be close to 1902 if we don't reach it.

BTW, the highest actual km-marker in province of Quebec is 1484, on QC-132, south of Routhierville, along Matapedia valley.
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- How many people are working in here?
- About 20%.

I ride a Ram 1500, an Uplander (...wait, WHAT?) and a Peterbilt!

States/provinces/territories I didn't went in: AB, AK, AL, BC, HI, KS, LA, MB, MN, MS, MT, ND, NL, NT, NU, PR, RI, SD, SK, WA, WI, YT.  Well, I still have some job to do!

 


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