Unique, Odd, or Interesting Signs aka The good, the bad, and the ugly

[jakeroot]

My own shot of the yellow speed limit sign in Bushnell:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Yellow_Speed_Limit_Sign_on_Sumter_CR_48;_Bushnell,_FL.jpg

How long has that been that way? I feel like you could easily ignore the limit and get any sort of ticket tossed. Though maybe the issue comes down to the importance of the message vs the color. Does the term "speed limit" override the yellow color? In my head, it wouldn't, but maybe a judge would disagree.

[D-Dey65]

How long has that been that way?

I probably should've looked at the tag on the back for the answer to that. As far as I know, it could've been around as long as the widening project started.

[formulanone]

My own shot of the yellow speed limit sign in Bushnell:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Yellow_Speed_Limit_Sign_on_Sumter_CR_48;_Bushnell,_FL.jpg

How long has that been that way? I feel like you could easily ignore the limit and get any sort of ticket tossed. Though maybe the issue comes down to the importance of the message vs the color. Does the term "speed limit" override the yellow color? In my head, it wouldn't, but maybe a judge would disagree.

While the idea of average schmoe getting away with a petty crime on a technicality makes for good copy, it's far more likely that a judge won't really care about the sign color.

Now if the sign had dark gray text on a black background, you might have a case...a well-faded "Night Speed Limit" sign, for example.

[jakeroot]

My own shot of the yellow speed limit sign in Bushnell:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Yellow_Speed_Limit_Sign_on_Sumter_CR_48;_Bushnell,_FL.jpg

How long has that been that way? I feel like you could easily ignore the limit and get any sort of ticket tossed. Though maybe the issue comes down to the importance of the message vs the color. Does the term "speed limit" override the yellow color? In my head, it wouldn't, but maybe a judge would disagree.

While the idea of average schmoe getting away with a petty crime on a technicality makes for good copy, it's far more likely that a judge won't really care about the sign color.

Guess it depends on the lawyer. I got a ticket tossed because the officer wrote down the wrong model of car that I was driving. Ticket = tossed.

[cl94]

My own shot of the yellow speed limit sign in Bushnell:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Yellow_Speed_Limit_Sign_on_Sumter_CR_48;_Bushnell,_FL.jpg

How long has that been that way? I feel like you could easily ignore the limit and get any sort of ticket tossed. Though maybe the issue comes down to the importance of the message vs the color. Does the term "speed limit" override the yellow color? In my head, it wouldn't, but maybe a judge would disagree.

While the idea of average schmoe getting away with a petty crime on a technicality makes for good copy, it's far more likely that a judge won't really care about the sign color.

Guess it depends on the lawyer. I got a ticket tossed because the officer wrote down the wrong model of car that I was driving. Ticket = tossed.

Yeah, my dad had a few tickets tossed when he was younger for the cop spelling his name wrong on the ticket. Of course, not a thing anymore now that they just scan the license when writing tickets.

[slorydn1]

jakeroot/cl94:

That's a completely different situation though. If a law enforcement officer is charging someone with a crime/infraction by citation it is expected that all of his/her I's are dotted and T's are crossed. If I write you a ticket I am swearing that I observed you breaking the law in some sort or fasion. If I spell your name wrong, have I truly charged the right person with that crime/infraction? If I write down the wrong vehicle on the ticket, did I really see YOU do what ever it is that I'm swearing that I saw you do? If I clock you a Mustang doing 61 in a 45 and write down that it was a Camaro on the ticket, I have left a reasonable doubt that you were the one who commited the crime and a judge will toss it pretty much every time.

The wrong sign color? Most judges wouldn't even know or understand the differences in the color. They would only know that the sign said SPEED LIMIT xx on it, and that you were doing nn speed over that number. What would make a difference, though, is if that speed limit that was posted is not the right speed limit for the area in question (meaning not officially set by the governmental body responsible for setting the limit for that particular road).

[hbelkins]

jakeroot/cl94:

That's a completely different situation though. If a law enforcement officer is charging someone with a crime/infraction by citation it is expected that all of his/her I's are dotted and T's are crossed. If I write you a ticket I am swearing that I observed you breaking the law in some sort or fasion. If I spell your name wrong, have I truly charged the right person with that crime/infraction? If I write down the wrong vehicle on the ticket, did I really see YOU do what ever it is that I'm swearing that I saw you do? If I clock you a Mustang doing 61 in a 45 and write down that it was a Camaro on the ticket, I have left a reasonable doubt that you were the one who commited the crime and a judge will toss it pretty much every time.

The wrong sign color? Most judges wouldn't even know or understand the differences in the color. They would only know that the sign said SPEED LIMIT xx on it, and that you were doing nn speed over that number. What would make a difference, though, is if that speed limit that was posted is not the right speed limit for the area in question (meaning not officially set by the governmental body responsible for setting the limit for that particular road).

We had a situation in my home county when I was much younger where a young state police officer was writing speeding tickets for people exceeding an advisory speed. The speed limit was 55 mph, but the advisory speed in this area (a "Congested Area" condition) was 35 mph. Those tickets got thrown out, and not because the speed being exceeded was in a yellow sign instead of a white sign.

[hotdogPi]

jakeroot/cl94:

That's a completely different situation though. If a law enforcement officer is charging someone with a crime/infraction by citation it is expected that all of his/her I's are dotted and T's are crossed. If I write you a ticket I am swearing that I observed you breaking the law in some sort or fasion. If I spell your name wrong, have I truly charged the right person with that crime/infraction? If I write down the wrong vehicle on the ticket, did I really see YOU do what ever it is that I'm swearing that I saw you do? If I clock you a Mustang doing 61 in a 45 and write down that it was a Camaro on the ticket, I have left a reasonable doubt that you were the one who commited the crime and a judge will toss it pretty much every time.

The wrong sign color? Most judges wouldn't even know or understand the differences in the color. They would only know that the sign said SPEED LIMIT xx on it, and that you were doing nn speed over that number. What would make a difference, though, is if that speed limit that was posted is not the right speed limit for the area in question (meaning not officially set by the governmental body responsible for setting the limit for that particular road).

We had a situation in my home county when I was much younger where a young state police officer was writing speeding tickets for people exceeding an advisory speed. The speed limit was 55 mph, but the advisory speed in this area (a "Congested Area" condition) was 35 mph. Those tickets got thrown out, and not because the speed being exceeded was in a yellow sign instead of a white sign.

Advisory speeds seem to be enforceable in Massachusetts. (My mom got one, but it was thrown out because the policeman didn't show up to court.) Are there any other states where this is the case?

EDIT: It was an exit ramp; it had nothing to do with the "thickly settled" signs.

[Roadgeekteen]

jakeroot/cl94:

That's a completely different situation though. If a law enforcement officer is charging someone with a crime/infraction by citation it is expected that all of his/her I's are dotted and T's are crossed. If I write you a ticket I am swearing that I observed you breaking the law in some sort or fasion. If I spell your name wrong, have I truly charged the right person with that crime/infraction? If I write down the wrong vehicle on the ticket, did I really see YOU do what ever it is that I'm swearing that I saw you do? If I clock you a Mustang doing 61 in a 45 and write down that it was a Camaro on the ticket, I have left a reasonable doubt that you were the one who commited the crime and a judge will toss it pretty much every time.

The wrong sign color? Most judges wouldn't even know or understand the differences in the color. They would only know that the sign said SPEED LIMIT xx on it, and that you were doing nn speed over that number. What would make a difference, though, is if that speed limit that was posted is not the right speed limit for the area in question (meaning not officially set by the governmental body responsible for setting the limit for that particular road).

We had a situation in my home county when I was much younger where a young state police officer was writing speeding tickets for people exceeding an advisory speed. The speed limit was 55 mph, but the advisory speed in this area (a "Congested Area" condition) was 35 mph. Those tickets got thrown out, and not because the speed being exceeded was in a yellow sign instead of a white sign.

Advisory speeds seem to be enforceable in Massachusetts. (My mom got one, but it was thrown out because the policeman didn't show up to court.) Are there any other states where this is the case?

EDIT: It was an exit ramp; it had nothing to do with the "thickly settled" signs.

If they are enforceable, why are they a different color?

[jeffandnicole]

jakeroot/cl94:

That's a completely different situation though. If a law enforcement officer is charging someone with a crime/infraction by citation it is expected that all of his/her I's are dotted and T's are crossed. If I write you a ticket I am swearing that I observed you breaking the law in some sort or fasion. If I spell your name wrong, have I truly charged the right person with that crime/infraction? If I write down the wrong vehicle on the ticket, did I really see YOU do what ever it is that I'm swearing that I saw you do? If I clock you a Mustang doing 61 in a 45 and write down that it was a Camaro on the ticket, I have left a reasonable doubt that you were the one who commited the crime and a judge will toss it pretty much every time.

The wrong sign color? Most judges wouldn't even know or understand the differences in the color. They would only know that the sign said SPEED LIMIT xx on it, and that you were doing nn speed over that number. What would make a difference, though, is if that speed limit that was posted is not the right speed limit for the area in question (meaning not officially set by the governmental body responsible for setting the limit for that particular road).

We had a situation in my home county when I was much younger where a young state police officer was writing speeding tickets for people exceeding an advisory speed. The speed limit was 55 mph, but the advisory speed in this area (a "Congested Area" condition) was 35 mph. Those tickets got thrown out, and not because the speed being exceeded was in a yellow sign instead of a white sign.

Advisory speeds seem to be enforceable in Massachusetts. (My mom got one, but it was thrown out because the policeman didn't show up to court.) Are there any other states where this is the case?

EDIT: It was an exit ramp; it had nothing to do with the "thickly settled" signs.

Probably why the cop didn't show up.  He knew he would lose anyway.

[PHLBOS]

Advisory speeds seem to be enforceable in Massachusetts. (My mom got one, but it was thrown out because the policeman didn't show up to court.) Are there any other states where this is the case?

EDIT: It was an exit ramp; it had nothing to do with the "thickly settled" signs.

Actually, back when the Mass Pike had Fast-Lane; the Turnpike Authority used the square, yellow speed advisory panels (MUTCD W13-1P sign reading 15 M.P.H.) for their F-L toll booths, a motorist received a speeding ticket (I forget what speed he was clocked at doing).  However, since he just happened to be a sign contractor and knew MUTCD by heart; he challenged the ticket on the grounds that the traffic control device used wasn't the correct one.  The judge dismissed the ticket and the Turnpike Authority quickly replaced all the speed advisory signs with the proper MUTCD R2-1 SPEED LIMIT 15 signs.

However, some local roads in the Bay State (mostly DCR (formerly MDC) -maintained ones) to this day still use W13-1P signs for speed limits rather than R2-1 signs.

[SectorZ]

Advisory speeds seem to be enforceable in Massachusetts. (My mom got one, but it was thrown out because the policeman didn't show up to court.) Are there any other states where this is the case?

EDIT: It was an exit ramp; it had nothing to do with the "thickly settled" signs.

Actually, back when the Mass Pike had Fast-Lane; the Turnpike Authority used the square, yellow speed advisory panels (MUTCD W13-1P sign reading 15 M.P.H.) for their F-L toll booths, a motorist received a speeding ticket (I forget what speed he was clocked at doing).  However, since he just happened to be a sign contractor and knew MUTCD by heart; he challenged the ticket on the grounds that the traffic control device used wasn't the correct one.  The judge dismissed the ticket and the Turnpike Authority quickly replaced all the speed advisory signs with the proper MUTCD R2-1 SPEED LIMIT 15 signs.

However, some local roads in the Bay State (mostly DCR (formerly MDC) -maintained ones) to this day still use W13-1P signs for speed limits rather than R2-1 signs.

In Princeton, MA, every town road has the W13-1P speed limit signs. They've even replaced them in recent years.

[kkt]

jakeroot/cl94:

That's a completely different situation though. If a law enforcement officer is charging someone with a crime/infraction by citation it is expected that all of his/her I's are dotted and T's are crossed. If I write you a ticket I am swearing that I observed you breaking the law in some sort or fasion. If I spell your name wrong, have I truly charged the right person with that crime/infraction? If I write down the wrong vehicle on the ticket, did I really see YOU do what ever it is that I'm swearing that I saw you do? If I clock you a Mustang doing 61 in a 45 and write down that it was a Camaro on the ticket, I have left a reasonable doubt that you were the one who commited the crime and a judge will toss it pretty much every time.

The wrong sign color? Most judges wouldn't even know or understand the differences in the color. They would only know that the sign said SPEED LIMIT xx on it, and that you were doing nn speed over that number. What would make a difference, though, is if that speed limit that was posted is not the right speed limit for the area in question (meaning not officially set by the governmental body responsible for setting the limit for that particular road).

We had a situation in my home county when I was much younger where a young state police officer was writing speeding tickets for people exceeding an advisory speed. The speed limit was 55 mph, but the advisory speed in this area (a "Congested Area" condition) was 35 mph. Those tickets got thrown out, and not because the speed being exceeded was in a yellow sign instead of a white sign.

Advisory speeds seem to be enforceable in Massachusetts. (My mom got one, but it was thrown out because the policeman didn't show up to court.) Are there any other states where this is the case?

EDIT: It was an exit ramp; it had nothing to do with the "thickly settled" signs.

Probably why the cop didn't show up.  He knew he would lose anyway.

Eh.  Could be a straightforward cost-benefit analysis.  In the half a day he'd spend in court fighting this one, he could write a hundred new tickets and probably at least 80 of the heinous criminals would just pay the fine without going to court.

[vdeane]

My understanding is that MassDOT dumped the curve advisory speed limits of surface roads after a judge ruled they weren't enforceable.

[cl94]

My understanding is that MassDOT dumped the curve advisory speed limits of surface roads after a judge ruled they weren't enforceable.

They generally aren't enforced anyway. And this has been statewide policy for quite some time, as rural non-state roads have speed limit signs in the current pattern that are likely 20-30+ years old.

[US 89]

My understanding is that MassDOT dumped the curve advisory speed limits of surface roads after a judge ruled they weren't enforceable.

They generally aren't enforced anyway. And this has been statewide policy for quite some time, as rural non-state roads have speed limit signs in the current pattern that are likely 20-30+ years old.

I could be wrong, but I don't think advisory speed limits are enforceable. (And most are too low, anyway...)

[slorydn1]

Generally, at least in my state, the only way once could be charged with going faster than the advisory speed woud be to get into a wreck (Failure to reduce speed to avoid a collision).

I guess if an officer wanted to be a real pisser, he could cite one for reckless driving for:

"Any person who drives any vehicle upon a highway or any public vehicular area without due caution and circumspection and at a speed or in a manner so as to endanger or be likely to endanger any person or property shall be guilty of reckless driving." [NCGS 20-140(b)]

I would think that getting a conviction on this one would be a real stretch though, if the only element was exceeding the advisory speed. Now exceeding the advisory AND the actual posted speed limit (so lets say 65 mph zone and the curve is advised at 35 mph) yeah I could definitely see that one sticking though.

[jakeroot]

jakeroot/cl94:

That's a completely different situation though. If a law enforcement officer is charging someone with a crime/infraction by citation it is expected that all of his/her I's are dotted and T's are crossed. If I write you a ticket I am swearing that I observed you breaking the law in some sort or fasion. If I spell your name wrong, have I truly charged the right person with that crime/infraction? If I write down the wrong vehicle on the ticket, did I really see YOU do what ever it is that I'm swearing that I saw you do? If I clock you a Mustang doing 61 in a 45 and write down that it was a Camaro on the ticket, I have left a reasonable doubt that you were the one who commited the crime and a judge will toss it pretty much every time.

My original point was that, unless everything adds up perfectly, it's easy to get a ticket tossed. The fact is that a yellow sign with the word "speed limit" on it, is not a speed limit sign. I'm not sure what the default speed limit is for County Routes in Florida, but if it's anything more than 40, police have no right to enforce that "speed limit", because that "speed limit" sign isn't legally enforceable. The only legally enforceable speed limit signs are MUTCD-compliant speed limit signs (white signs with black text, black signs with white text (night limits)), or those that are set legislatively but not posted (i.e. default limits).

[freebrickproductions]

I believe this would qualify for "the ugly":
2 Left Lane Closed 1500 ft/Right Lane Ends by freebrickproductions, on Flickr

[roadman65]

I like this one where a county route in NJ gets primary mention over the state route it shares pavement with.

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.5340666,-74.2974009,3a,75y,180h,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sqxMjbDVrWvWBczlILxW-KQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

[Roadgeekteen]

I believe this would qualify for "the ugly":
2 Left Lane Closed 1500 ft/Right Lane Ends by freebrickproductions, on Flickr

What does that 2 mean?

[kkt]

I believe this would qualify for "the ugly":
2 Left Lane Closed 1500 ft/Right Lane Ends by freebrickproductions, on Flickr

What does that 2 mean?

The two left lanes are being closed?

[jakeroot]

I've seen similar subject/verb errors before (usually the result of patching). Here's one at the start of WA-512 south of Seattle (just after exiting WA-167):

[jakeroot]

Lately, I've noticed some rather odd signing patterns by WSDOT, where "EXIT" signs are used to denote almost every slip ramp, even if it's a freeway entrance. Behold...

SR-202 @ SR-520, Redmond: https://goo.gl/ipozSb (image 1)

15 St SW @ SR-18, Auburn: https://goo.gl/izs7WD (image 2) (note lack of FREEWAY ENTRANCE sign despite it being an entrance -- luckily it gets an EXIT sign...sigh)







EDIT...related to above:

Here's a FREEWAY ENTRANCE sign in a middle of nowhere (sort of). After crossing into Washington on I-82 from Oregon, you get this sign. Nevermind that you've been on I-82 for about ten miles by this point. I cannot figure out, for the life of me, what the point of this sign is.

https://goo.gl/e4jJnV

[noelbotevera]

EDIT...related to above:

Here's a FREEWAY ENTRANCE sign in a middle of nowhere (sort of). After crossing into Washington on I-82 from Oregon, you get this sign. Nevermind that you've been on I-82 for about ten miles by this point. I cannot figure out, for the life of me, what the point of this sign is.

https://goo.gl/e4jJnV

(snip)

What I can make out is that there was once a entrance ramp (most likely) for some sort of ranch road. You can see some pavement behind the jersey barrier and a small road (about ¹/₂ lane wide) next to I-82 while it crosses the river, and then splits off at the "FREEWAY ENTRANCE" sign. If you were on that road for some reason, that would be a freeway entrance to I-82, and you would see that strange cloud sign if you continued on the road.