Unique, Odd, or Interesting Signs aka The good, the bad, and the ugly

[74/171FAN]

Anyone ever see an APL approaching a traffic light before?

Actually, this one on VA 165 SB approaching the Continuous-Flow Intersection (CFI) at US 13/VA 166 does apply.  The signals kinda block it, but I think you get the point.  (https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10217203890769850&set=a.10217203898010031)



More Norfolk ones:

Looking at Norfolk Int'l Airport from the intersection of Norview Ave (VA 247 ends at VA 165) and VA 192 (unsigned along Azalea Garden Rd) (https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10219870245667056&set=a.10216218268569911)



VA 247 EB at VA 194 (https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10219870245747058&set=a.10216218268569911)

[Amaury]

While looking for a photo for my Stock Sign Photos thread, I came across these interesting signs at the Washington/Oregon border on Interstate 5.

Northbound - "WA S / L OR" on both sides of the freeway: https://maps.app.goo.gl/T8TCbMMrg8efxikk7
Southbound - "OR S / L WA" on both sides of the freeway: https://maps.app.goo.gl/tV3p1iHSRioQBAkz9

Not sure what they mean.

[hotdogPi]

I think S/L is "state line".

[chrislopezz]

Shouldn't this be at the top?

[ClassicHasClass]

I think S/L is "state line".

Yes, that's exactly what it is.

[frankenroad]

Shouldn't this be at the top?

Took me a minute - I was wondering why a Connecticut highway would have the outline of Georgia on it!

[Amaury]

On Oregon Routes 203 and 257. I like the state route shield being part of the mile marker, but not sure what the A means:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/8MocNMBfurhA9dT18
https://maps.app.goo.gl/9p3N5hfmyzFZuNLK6

I noticed US 395 south of Pendleton also does that, though it might have been a different letter. I don't remember. My first and only time so far going that way was on a drive to Mount Vernon in Oregon last year in February.

[kphoger]

On Oregon Routes 203 and 257. I like the state route shield being part of the mile marker, but not sure what the A means:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/8MocNMBfurhA9dT18
https://maps.app.goo.gl/9p3N5hfmyzFZuNLK6

I noticed US 395 south of Pendleton also does that, though it might have been a different letter. I don't remember. My first and only time so far going that way was on a drive to Mount Vernon in Oregon last year in February.

Here you go:

https://www.oregon.gov/odot/Regions/Documents/Region5/US%20395_OR207%20Alpha%20Mile%20Markers_Web_Final_0104178.pdf

[bzakharin]

On Oregon Routes 203 and 257. I like the state route shield being part of the mile marker, but not sure what the A means:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/8MocNMBfurhA9dT18
https://maps.app.goo.gl/9p3N5hfmyzFZuNLK6

I noticed US 395 south of Pendleton also does that, though it might have been a different letter. I don't remember. My first and only time so far going that way was on a drive to Mount Vernon in Oregon last year in February.

Here you go:

https://www.oregon.gov/odot/Regions/Documents/Region5/US%20395_OR207%20Alpha%20Mile%20Markers_Web_Final_0104178.pdf

So they identify a problem and provide a completely nonsensical solution? Why would it be so hard to follow the rules and not reset mile markers in the first place? Isn't that how most states with concurrencies do things? Also, why do miles on US 395 increase from north to south?

[kphoger]

So they identify a problem and provide a completely nonsensical solution? Why would it be so hard to follow the rules and not reset mile markers in the first place? Isn't that how most states with concurrencies do things?

You might be surprised to learn that not all states view mileposts with the same eyes.  For example, in Texas, you generally won't even find them at all off the Interstate system.  In Kentucky, they reset at county lines.

Also, why do miles on US 395 increase from north to south?

Because they're allowed to.  And it isn't just US-395:  as far as I'm aware, it's all non-Interstate north-south highways in Oregon except for a small number of exceptions.  The MUTCD states that "Zero distance should begin at the south and west State lines, or at the south and west terminus points where routes begin within a State" [MUTCD §2H.05/13].  That's should, not shall:  it's guidance, not a requirement.

If you'd like to take the discussion to a thread already dedicated to the subject, then maybe resurrect this 4½-year-old thread.

[Amaury]

Here you go:

https://www.oregon.gov/odot/Regions/Documents/Region5/US%20395_OR207%20Alpha%20Mile%20Markers_Web_Final_0104178.pdf

Thanks. I remember this now. I've Google this before, I just didn't remember I did until seeing this document again. Still doesn't make that much sense to me. I don't see how it's either a benefit or hindrance. I don't see any possibility for confusion.

All this mile marker resetting can be confusing when motorists call a tow company or the state police and advise they've had an accident on U.S. 395 and need help at mile post 12. Emergency responders and dispatchers first have to confirm which mile post 12 they are at.

If there's, say, a collision on US 395 southbound in Oregon at milepost 10, when you call 911, it will automatically ring in the 911 of the state you're in—in this case, Oregon. Responders shouldn't have to figure out if it's milepost 10 in Oregon or Washington, because it's obvious it's Oregon since you rung in to 911 in Oregon. And for US 395, anyway, it doesn't happen until south of Pendleton, which is well past Washington and well into Oregon. If there would be confusion, it would be closer to the Washington border, where these letters aren't used in US 395's non-concurrent segments, because of the way mile markers work for non-interstates in Oregon, with mile markers increasing from north to south and east to west instead of the other way around. So, at the Washington/Oregon border, it would be roughly milepost 1 on both sides, though you don't see that since Interstate 82's mileposts are used because of the concurrency.

But it makes even less sense for local state routes, such as Oregon Route 203 and Oregon Route 237.

[kphoger]

All this mile marker resetting can be confusing when motorists call a tow company or the state police and advise they've had an accident on U.S. 395 and need help at mile post 12. Emergency responders and dispatchers first have to confirm which mile post 12 they are at.

If there's, say, a collision on US 395 southbound in Oregon at milepost 10, when you call 911, it will automatically ring in the 911 of the state you're in—in this case, Oregon. Responders shouldn't have to figure out if it's milepost 10 in Oregon or Washington, because it's obvious it's Oregon since you rung in to 911 in Oregon. And for US 395, anyway, it doesn't happen until south of Pendleton, which is well past Washington and well into Oregon. If there would be confusion, it would be closer to the Washington border, where these letters aren't used in US 395's non-concurrent segments, because of the way mile markers work for non-interstates in Oregon, with mile markers increasing from north to south and east to west instead of the other way around. So, at the Washington/Oregon border, it would be roughly milepost 1 on both sides, though you don't see that since Interstate 82's mileposts are used because of the concurrency.

But it makes even less sense for local state routes, such as Oregon Route 203 and Oregon Route 237.

It's because the state police or tow company would need to figure out which Oregon mile post 12 you meant—not which state's mile post 12 you meant.

[Amaury]

So, like milepost 12 could be Oregon Route 203, Oregon Route 82, Interstate 84 in Oregon, US Route 395 in Oregon, etc.? Is that what you mean? But if you say, "Hey, I'm broken down at milepost 12 on US 395," there's no confusion as to which highway you're on, is there? You were specific and said US 395. Or am I missing something? Also, if that's the case, what's different here in Washington or other states compared to Oregon? I don't know about the other states, but I know for sure we don't use that lettering here in Washington. I don't think Idaho does, either. Of the other states I've been in, Montana, Utah, and California, I don't think Montana does, but I'm not sure about the latter two as I haven't been on that many highways over there. When we went to Salt Lake City, we were only on interstates while in Utah (I-84, I-15, I-215, I-80). And in California, I've only been on US 97, CA 3, I-5, US 199, and US 101.

I'm genuinely confused here, so thanks for the help in answering.

[kphoger]

So, like milepost 12 could be Oregon Route 203, Oregon Route 82, Interstate 84 in Oregon, US Route 395 in Oregon, etc.? Is that what you mean? But if you say, "Hey, I'm broken down at milepost 12 on US 395," there's no confusion as to which highway you're on, is there? You were specific and said US 395. Or am I missing something?

Yes, you're missing the fact that US-395 in Oregon has multiple mileposts numbered 12.

Let's say your motorcycle broke down, so you hitchhiked the rest of the way home and then called a tow company from there.  You tell them that you left the motorcycle along US-395, just south of milepost 14.  Without the alpha character, all three of these US-395 mileposts would be identical, so which one should they dispatch a truck to:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/wDYevmVJJDbEbCvAA
https://maps.app.goo.gl/strRYfiT2RXsgdw88
https://maps.app.goo.gl/nPQ1wio631fJNgac7

As far as the state of Oregon is concerned, these aren't merely three segments of the same route:  they're three separate routes that just happen to all carry the US-395 designation.

[freebrickproductions]

I'm of the opinion that mileposts should never reset at the county lines, I ain't a fan of Georgia or Tennessee doing it with their counties.

[Amaury]

Yes, you're missing the fact that US-395 in Oregon has multiple mileposts numbered 12.

Let's say your motorcycle broke down, so you hitchhiked the rest of the way home and then called a tow company from there.  You tell them that you left the motorcycle along US-395, just south of milepost 14.  Without the alpha character, all three of these US-395 mileposts would be identical, so which one should they dispatch a truck to:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/wDYevmVJJDbEbCvAA
https://maps.app.goo.gl/strRYfiT2RXsgdw88
https://maps.app.goo.gl/nPQ1wio631fJNgac7

As far as the state of Oregon is concerned, these aren't merely three segments of the same route:  they're three separate routes that just happen to all carry the US-395 designation.

That's what I was missing. I didn't realize it had "duplicate" mileposts. Thank you. That makes it a lot clearer!

[J N Winkler]

Oregon DOT routes (the route number is what appears on signs) follow highways (the highway number typically appears only in internal documentation).  The blurb doesn't go into detail, but I'm pretty sure each instance of milepost 12 on US 395 in Oregon corresponds to a separate highway.  And just to make things extra fun, highways can turn from one route to another, and I'm pretty sure the milepointing continues to increment through each turn.

This is just one way in which Oregon DOT is deeply unusual among state highway agencies.  Another is numbering sheets of signing plans in a series that spans every single construction plans set issued since roughly the mid-1960's.

[ClassicHasClass]

The blurb doesn't go into detail, but I'm pretty sure each instance of milepost 12 on US 395 in Oregon corresponds to a separate highway.

That is, indeed, exactly the case.

[Rothman]

Oregon DOT routes (the route number is what appears on signs) follow highways (the highway number typically appears only in internal documentation).  The blurb doesn't go into detail, but I'm pretty sure each instance of milepost 12 on US 395 in Oregon corresponds to a separate highway.  And just to make things extra fun, highways can turn from one route to another, and I'm pretty sure the milepointing continues to increment through each turn.

This is just one way in which Oregon DOT is deeply unusual among state highway agencies.  Another is numbering sheets of signing plans in a series that spans every single construction plans set issued since roughly the mid-1960's.

Not as prominent as Oregon's use of their hidden designations, but NYSDOT also still refers to an ancient hidden designation of their state highways in project milestone documents so contractors can look up historical record plans if need be.  IIRC, they are hyphenated and in the "highway name" field.

[PColumbus73]

Yes, you're missing the fact that US-395 in Oregon has multiple mileposts numbered 12.

Let's say your motorcycle broke down, so you hitchhiked the rest of the way home and then called a tow company from there.  You tell them that you left the motorcycle along US-395, just south of milepost 14.  Without the alpha character, all three of these US-395 mileposts would be identical, so which one should they dispatch a truck to:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/wDYevmVJJDbEbCvAA
https://maps.app.goo.gl/strRYfiT2RXsgdw88
https://maps.app.goo.gl/nPQ1wio631fJNgac7

As far as the state of Oregon is concerned, these aren't merely three segments of the same route:  they're three separate routes that just happen to all carry the US-395 designation.

That's what I was missing. I didn't realize it had "duplicate" mileposts. Thank you. That makes it a lot clearer!

This happens in Ohio too on non-Interstate divided highways like US 23 and 35. Ohio doesn't appear to use the standard mile markers for non-Interstates either, in Ross County, OH, mile markers use black-on-white signs.

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.478951,-82.9710023,3a,17.3y,323.35h,85.84t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sN0J5MX_r08wl82lTe4zOiA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DN0J5MX_r08wl82lTe4zOiA%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D351.7716%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

Since exit numbers are being added to on sign replacements, now seems to be the time to add mile markers.

[thenetwork]

Yes, you're missing the fact that US-395 in Oregon has multiple mileposts numbered 12.

Let's say your motorcycle broke down, so you hitchhiked the rest of the way home and then called a tow company from there.  You tell them that you left the motorcycle along US-395, just south of milepost 14.  Without the alpha character, all three of these US-395 mileposts would be identical, so which one should they dispatch a truck to:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/wDYevmVJJDbEbCvAA
https://maps.app.goo.gl/strRYfiT2RXsgdw88
https://maps.app.goo.gl/nPQ1wio631fJNgac7

As far as the state of Oregon is concerned, these aren't merely three segments of the same route:  they're three separate routes that just happen to all carry the US-395 designation.

That's what I was missing. I didn't realize it had "duplicate" mileposts. Thank you. That makes it a lot clearer!

This happens in Ohio too on non-Interstate divided highways like US 23 and 35. Ohio doesn't appear to use the standard mile markers for non-Interstates either, in Ross County, OH, mile markers use black-on-white signs.

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.478951,-82.9710023,3a,17.3y,323.35h,85.84t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sN0J5MX_r08wl82lTe4zOiA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DN0J5MX_r08wl82lTe4zOiA%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D351.7716%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

Since exit numbers are being added to on sign replacements, now seems to be the time to add mile markers.

What's worse is that in the last 30-40 years, ODOT's black-on-white mileage markers have omitted the 3-letter county abbreviation and highway number on the mile marker for reference.  For example, in the olden days, a mile marker on Route 18 in Medina County marker would say:

MED-18
   22

Whereas nowadays, it's a simple white square with a black 22 on it.

[wanderer2575]

Family gathering:

[freebrickproductions]

Family gathering:

Is that the most interstate shields on one gantry, at least in regards to parent/daughter routes?

[Scott5114]

I'm of the opinion that mileposts should never reset at the county lines, I ain't a fan of Georgia or Tennessee doing it with their counties.

Georgia and Tennessee have such small counties that it's not practical there.

The counties in Nevada and other Western states, on the other hand, are extremely large—larger than some states, even—and so there's not as much of a problem with those resetting (especially because, in Nevada and California, the mileposts include a county code so that it's clear which county any given milepost belongs to, even if you're not quite sure whether you've crossed a certain county line or not).

[freebrickproductions]

I'm of the opinion that mileposts should never reset at the county lines, I ain't a fan of Georgia or Tennessee doing it with their counties.

Georgia and Tennessee have such small counties that it's not practical there.

Unfortunately, they still do it anyways.