Washington

[jakeroot]

Question -- were the residents along the affected streets made part of the decision chain, or was this a top-down policy-driven mandate?  If the residents -- or an overwhelming majority of them -- acceded to the plan, it may well be considered valid; if imposed from above by well-meaning officials absent local input, not so much!  Perhaps the traffic lull resultant from the COVID problem was too much of an opportunity to ignore.  It'll be interesting to see the overall public reaction once the policy is fully instituted!     

It's very unlike Seattle not to impart their plans with local residents and develop goals based around their needs prior to any project (even smaller stuff). The more unusual thing here is the speed at which we went from no Healthy Streets, to permanent through-traffic closures. That indicates to me that public input was limited; the "Seattle process" usually precludes quick choices.

My guess is that blow-back will be stiff starting tomorrow, as more people become aware of the news. Local residents are likely indifferent to the decision, since they will continue to have access anyhow, but some roads like Lake Washington Blvd are not just scenic routes, but also important arterials, and redirected traffic could easily begin to ruin other streets, particularly as traffic returns back to original levels (which sucks, but it will absolutely happen).

[Bruce]

Lake Washington Boulevard is indeed scenic, which is why it should be opened to pedestrian and cyclist traffic. It's already like that on Sundays in summer and doesn't cause massive gridlock. Simply requiring regular cars to turn off where possible (and use alternative routes that are also scenic) would have little effect on traffic but come with a huge boost in livability.

[jakeroot]

Lake Washington Boulevard is indeed scenic, which is why it should be opened to pedestrian and cyclist traffic. It's already like that on Sundays in summer and doesn't cause massive gridlock. Simply requiring regular cars to turn off where possible (and use alternative routes that are also scenic) would have little effect on traffic but come with a huge boost in livability.

One thing they've taught us in Urban Design is to not simply remove roadways, not least without serious consideration of traffic flow in the area; pushing cars off of one road is simply pushing them onto another, resulting in an increase of livability for one stretch, but a marked decrease for another.

Lake Washington Blvd isn't much of an arterial south/east of 49th, so I could see removing that stretch. But the rest is relatively important for north/south travel. Removing that road may result in an increase of traffic along Rainier, itself already experiencing plenty of issues. We don't need to be adding more cars to it, or adjacent neighborhood greenways. Let things balance out a bit. No reason to cram everyone onto one road, when we can design roads that allow car travel while not being a ruinous experience for pedestrians.

Down in the Tacoma Dome District, we are working on preliminary plans to close East 25th, between East D and the exit from the Sound Transit garage. This area has the Amtrak, Sounder, and Tacoma Link stations. Very heavy use by transit, and lots of pedestrians. The case is good. I just don't think SDOT has made the case for closing many of their roads. Not long term, at least.

[ErmineNotyours]

The Seattle Times: What cracked the West Seattle Bridge? Hidden design problem may have doomed it all along

[ErmineNotyours]

Seattle Now & Then: West Seattle drawbridges, 1978

Someone asked earlier about the capacity of the older lower-level bridges.  The article said they were eight lanes, but the older photo shows the disabled bridge had three lanes.  They funneled the traffic onto four narrowed lanes on the remaining bridge.  Also the succession plans of West Seattle is discussed.

[jakeroot]

Seattle Now & Then: West Seattle drawbridges, 1978

Someone asked earlier about the capacity of the older lower-level bridges.  The article said they were eight lanes, but the older photo shows the disabled bridge had three lanes.  They funneled the traffic onto four narrowed lanes on the remaining bridge.  Also the succession plans of West Seattle is discussed.

Cool article.

This video from Seattle Archives (which may not have aged well ) shows the old bridge in operation. Four lanes each way. Far left westbound lane was half concrete, half asphalt (see 1:12). Old aerial imagery suggests it was originally three lanes.

https://youtu.be/3pQ7LcpMrf8

By the way: fantastic video for anyone that hasn't seen it, irrespective of the current situation.

[TEG24601]

The Seattle Times: What cracked the West Seattle Bridge? Hidden design problem may have doomed it all along

Several engineer friends I know were really upset that the anchor cables don't cover the full span, and always told me that they way they did the tensioning was considered by many to be a ticking time-bomb.

[Bruce]

The traffic lights on Pine Street have been covered up with plastic bags during protests.

[mrsman]

The traffic lights on Pine Street have been covered up with plastic bags during protests.

Why?  Is the street closed to traffic at all times?

Nexus 5X

[jakeroot]

Maybe while the protestors are at it, they can forcibly remove the signals and place them on the corners so I can fucking see the signals when there's a bus ahead of me. Since right now, I'm blind approaching every intersection in my Golf.

[stevashe]

The traffic lights on Pine Street have been covered up with plastic bags during protests.

Why?  Is the street closed to traffic at all times?

I believe the street has been closed 24/7 since the protests began here, yes.

[Bruce]

The traffic lights on Pine Street have been covered up with plastic bags during protests.

Why?  Is the street closed to traffic at all times?

Nexus 5X

Yep, a few streets around the East Precinct on Capitol Hill are blocked at practically all times by the police barricades, and the west entry on Pine Street is where the main protest is.

[roadfro]

The traffic lights on Pine Street have been covered up with plastic bags during protests.

Why?  Is the street closed to traffic at all times?

Yep, a few streets around the East Precinct on Capitol Hill are blocked at practically all times by the police barricades, and the west entry on Pine Street is where the main protest is.

Doesn't seem necessary to bag the signals though. Just flash them red or turn them off...

[jakeroot]

The traffic lights on Pine Street have been covered up with plastic bags during protests.

Why?  Is the street closed to traffic at all times?

Yep, a few streets around the East Precinct on Capitol Hill are blocked at practically all times by the police barricades, and the west entry on Pine Street is where the main protest is.

Doesn't seem necessary to bag the signals though. Just flash them red or turn them off...

I'm thinking they are trying to protect them.

[stevashe]

Why?  Is the street closed to traffic at all times?

Yep, a few streets around the East Precinct on Capitol Hill are blocked at practically all times by the police barricades, and the west entry on Pine Street is where the main protest is.

Doesn't seem necessary to bag the signals though. Just flash them red or turn them off...

I'm thinking they are trying to protect them.

Probably. Just saw some that were flashing red on the news just now though, so I'm thinking they only did this at the one intersection at the center of the gatherings.

[Bruce]

Pine Street has a new sign for the Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone:

[Alps]

Pine Street has a new sign for the Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone:

The one I saw in the news had an upside-down Washington:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EaMBmdqUYAIhs7f.jpg

[mrsman]

So this sign was fabricated and made just for these latest protests?  It seems like an unnecessary detail given all that is happening.

Although, if they do make a truly autonomous zone, I suppose they would need border crossings and the like, similar to other DMZs out there in the real world.

[Bruce]

Pine Street has a new sign for the Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone:

The one I saw in the news had an upside-down Washington:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EaMBmdqUYAIhs7f.jpg

That one is on Pike Street (which I saw today). This one was at Pine and Nagle.

So this sign was fabricated and made just for these latest protests?  It seems like an unnecessary detail given all that is happening.

Although, if they do make a truly autonomous zone, I suppose they would need border crossings and the like, similar to other DMZs out there in the real world.

A random person made it and put it up. It's art even if it isn't MUTCD compliant.

If CHAZ ends up existing long-term, there wouldn't be hard borders but it would likely be treated like Freetown Christiania in Copenhagen (before it was normalized). At most I see Pine Street being closed to thru traffic (except buses, potentially), which would be a boon for the neighborhood.

[mrsman]

Pine Street has a new sign for the Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone:

The one I saw in the news had an upside-down Washington:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EaMBmdqUYAIhs7f.jpg

That one is on Pike Street (which I saw today). This one was at Pine and Nagle.

So this sign was fabricated and made just for these latest protests?  It seems like an unnecessary detail given all that is happening.

Although, if they do make a truly autonomous zone, I suppose they would need border crossings and the like, similar to other DMZs out there in the real world.

A random person made it and put it up. It's art even if it isn't MUTCD compliant.

If CHAZ ends up existing long-term, there wouldn't be hard borders but it would likely be treated like Freetown Christiania in Copenhagen (before it was normalized). At most I see Pine Street being closed to thru traffic (except buses, potentially), which would be a boon for the neighborhood.

So there is an artistic roadgeek in CHAZ.  How interesting!

[Thunderbyrd316]

Pine Street has a new sign for the Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone:

   Does anyone have any insights in to the meaning of either "EXIT 1312" or route number "F12"?

[Alps]

Pine Street has a new sign for the Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone:

   Does anyone have any insights in to the meaning of either "EXIT 1312" or route number "F12"?

Yes, but those are political in nature and so I would direct you outside this forum.

[mrsman]

Pine Street has a new sign for the Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone:

   Does anyone have any insights in to the meaning of either "EXIT 1312" or route number "F12"?

Yes, but those are political in nature and so I would direct you outside this forum.

You have to look them up in the urban dictionary.  I just did and now it makes sense.

[Bruce]

A sinkhole opened a few days ago next to EB I-82 near Zillah and has been repaired by WSDOT.

https://twitter.com/WSDOT_East/status/1274446621732794368

[Bruce]

WSP doing the right thing by not escalating the nightly protests on I-5 (which haven't inconvenienced people that much, given how late they are).

https://mynorthwest.com/1973919/washington-state-patrol-i5-protesters/

WSDOT has also been using their VMS near I-405 to post this message: