Multiple OKC-area highways, turnpikes to be designated as interstates

[thisdj78]

Apologies if this has already been posted here:

https://kfor.com/news/local/multiple-okc-area-highways-turnpikes-to-be-designated-as-interstates-in-coming-month/

[TXtoNJ]

The Federal Highway Administration (FHWA) has specific guidelines on Interstate numbering.

Major north/south interstates are assigned one or two-digit, odd numbers, with the lowest-numbered roads on the west coast, and highest-numbered roads on the east coast.

Major east/west interstates are assigned one or two-digit, even numbers, with the lowest-numbered roads along the southern U.S. border and coast, and the highest-numbered roads running along the U.S./Canada border in the north.

Interstate highways built as bypass or reliever routes around a population center are assigned three digits, with the second two digits indicating the main interstate they bypass or relieve.

In the case of the Kilpatrick Turnpike, it is being assigned I-344 because it allows I-44 traffic to exit I-44 and circle around Oklahoma City's north and west side, and meet back up with I-44 to the southwest of Oklahoma City.

I-335 was chosen for the Kickapoo Turnpike because it serves as a reliever route for I-35, with plans to directly connect it to I-35 south of Norman in the works as part of the OTA's Access Oklahoma plan.

Article almost hits the mark here, but misses out on odd prefixes being spurs, and even ones being odd. Not only that, but OTA screwing the pooch here for reasons. But I shouldn't expect more from KFOR

[rlb2024]

Has AASHTO approved these?  Or do they have final say?

[Great Lakes Roads]

Has AASHTO approved these?  Or do they have final say?

AASHTO approved these designations in the Fall 2023 meeting.

[epzik8]

So there will now be two I-335s. Lovely.

[Jim]

So there will now be two I-335s. Lovely.

I-335 has a long way to go to catch I-295's 8 routes.

Does anyone know if the I-344/I-240 junction is really where it's shown in that article?  Seems like it should either be at I-40 or at I-44, not half way in between.

[Bobby5280]

No, it really does look like they will have I-335 and I-240 meet/end in very odd fashion at the partial exit for OK-152.

It would be really funny if they installed an "End I-240" sign at the traffic light for OK-152 and SW 59th Street. Such a thing would be a fitting statement for what is becoming of the Interstate Highway "System." Rules? What rules?

Having I-344 and I-240 terminate at a partial exit for a surface street is (at least to me) more offensive than the "rule breaking" notion of I-240 and I-344 both ending at the Kilpatrick Turnpike interchange with I-40. In San Jose I-280 and I-680 terminate into each other at the US-101 stack interchange. If they allowed both I-240 and I-335 to terminate at I-40 then both ends of I-240 would terminate at I-40. Someone driving East on I-40 thru the OKC area never sees I-240.

With the OTA and ODOT committing to this weird signing scheme I can only hope the I-344 designation will be extended onto the Tri-City Connector Turnpike when that is built around Will Rogers Airport. That would result in a more logical Western terminus for I-240.

[Henry]

So there will now be two I-335s. Lovely.

And they will both be toll roads, with the currently existing one making up the middle part of the Kansas Turnpike.

[Strider]

It doesn't make sense to have I-240 and I-344 end at each other at OK-152 interchange. I-240 should continue to I-40 and then switch into I-344 (I don't know why they pick I-344 when it should be an even I-x44).

[Scott5114]

It doesn't make sense to have I-240 and I-344 end at each other at OK-152 interchange. I-240 should continue to I-40 and then switch into I-344 (I don't know why they pick I-344 when it should be an even I-x44).

THREE DIGIT NUMBER STARTING WITH 3 MEANS TOLL IN OKLAHOMA

how many times do I have to post this

[The Ghostbuster]

I don't mind the Interstate 344 designation for the John Kirkpatrick Turnpike (although it does seem like an odd choice considering there's an OK 344 designated along the Gilcrease Expressway in Tulsa). I do think that the portion of the OK 152 Airport Freeway segment should not have become part of 240; it should've either stayed OK 152 or it should have been part of Interstate 344. In fact, I think the connection to the JKT should have been constructed so that one would have to exit to stay on the non-freeway portion of OK 152, instead of exiting to access the JKT. I also have no problem with the Kickapoo Turnpike being numbered Interstate 335, but the exits should be renumbered to correspond with 335's eventual southern terminus.

[vdeane]

I think my POV here is the same as it is with CalTrans and number duplication/I-238 - the integrity of the federal numbering system should trump the integrity of the state numbering system.  What's next - renumbering I-44 to various I-3xx numbers so they can be designated "toll"?  Designating US 412 as I-349?  That system is brand new and already bends, so why not bend it here so that the numbers actually make sense?

[The Ghostbuster]

The US 412 corridor proposed to be included in the Interstate System (Interstate 35-to-Interstate 49) is too long to be a 3di. As the proposed corridor is to be 190 miles long (about 58 miles longer than the longest 3di Interstate 476, which is 132.1 miles long) the corridor should be a 2di. Since the Interstate 42 designation has been rejected, they should go with the number I have preferred for the corridor from the get-go: Interstate 46.

[rte66man]

It doesn't make sense to have I-240 and I-344 end at each other at OK-152 interchange. I-240 should continue to I-40 and then switch into I-344 (I don't know why they pick I-344 when it should be an even I-x44).

THREE DIGIT NUMBER STARTING WITH 3 MEANS TOLL IN OKLAHOMA

how many times do I have to post this

uhhh OK325 would like to have a word with you.

[Scott5114]

uhhh OK325 would like to have a word with you.

The toll you pay on OK-325 is that to your sanity from crossing the whole panhandle to get to it.

(Although really, OK-325 was numbered after...what is now NM-456. ODOT is really not good at this numbering thing.)

[LilianaUwU]

Has AASHTO approved these?  Or do they have final say?

AASHTO literally approves everything state DOTs throw their way now.

[swake]

Has AASHTO approved these?  Or do they have final say?

AASHTO literally approves everything state DOTs throw their way now.

Except I-42 for the US-412 corridor. They rejected that.

[Bobby5280]

I would have preferred I-42. It would have looked kind of cool to have sign posts with I-42 and US-412 shields on them. I-46 or I-48 would be the next best choices.

THREE DIGIT NUMBER STARTING WITH 3 MEANS TOLL IN OKLAHOMA

And there are only 3 possible I-3XX route designations in Oklahoma: I-344, I-340 and I-335. Two of those are already getting "burned" in OKC. That leaves I-340. Tulsa sure can't use that one. They do have a SH-344 number applied to the Gilcrease Expressway though.

This notion of 3-digit routes beginning in 3 is a "system" that could only work on the state highway level. It is absolutely stupid to insist on it with Interstate named routes. Can we expect the OTA to actually apply for "I-364" to be signed to the Creek Turnpike around Tulsa? Or how about "I-375" for the Indian Nation Turnpike? It would be hilarious to have "I-301" applied to the 2-lane Chickasaw Turnpike. The Muskogee Turnpike is an odd one in that it is signed as SH-351, but the "free" part of it passing through Muskogee is signed as SH-165. So that has SH-351 disconnected on two segments. I guess that would be a special sign-related problem if the OTA tried sticking "I-351" on that route.

[vdeane]

The US 412 corridor proposed to be included in the Interstate System (Interstate 35-to-Interstate 49) is too long to be a 3di. As the proposed corridor is to be 190 miles long (about 58 miles longer than the longest 3di Interstate 476, which is 132.1 miles long) the corridor should be a 2di. Since the Interstate 42 designation has been rejected, they should go with the number I have preferred for the corridor from the get-go: Interstate 46.

Does Oklahoma care?  If they're throwing out all the other rules, what's sacred about that one?

(I agree with you, btw.  Just pointing out how absurd it is to apply the "3xx = toll" rule here over the actual interstate numbering rules.)

[MikieTimT]

The US 412 corridor proposed to be included in the Interstate System (Interstate 35-to-Interstate 49) is too long to be a 3di. As the proposed corridor is to be 190 miles long (about 58 miles longer than the longest 3di Interstate 476, which is 132.1 miles long) the corridor should be a 2di. Since the Interstate 42 designation has been rejected, they should go with the number I have preferred for the corridor from the get-go: Interstate 46.

It seems like almost an oversight not to propose a 3DI from Enid to the proposed current end of the Interstate upgrade of US-412 given the proximity (<30 miles) and size of Enid (>50K).  They've even already got a full interchange with the one state highway (OK-15) that crosses it.  They do have a number of section line roads that also need access, though, so that's likely why it isn't on the radar as of yet since they'd either need a significant stretch of access roads with overpass conversions, or an exit pretty much every mile, assuming they'd convert the existing facility and not just go new terrain build.

And, the correct answer here is I-50, only because it's likely to eventually be extended at both ends, although certainly not before I retire and stop caring as much about burning up the roads.

[Scott5114]

This notion of 3-digit routes beginning in 3 is a "system" that could only work on the state highway level. It is absolutely stupid to insist on it with Interstate named routes.

Well, yeah, but it needed to be said to prevent the endless parade of "it should be an even first digit instead". Nobody gives a damn about that rule in any other state (see: the other I-335), so if OTA has an actual reason they'd prefer a 3 there, that's good enough for me.

Trying to make the rejected I-42 a 3di starting in 3 would be asinine, but I don't think anyone ever actually proposed that.

[Bobby5280]

Well, yeah, but it needed to be said to prevent the endless parade of "it should be an even first digit instead". Nobody gives a damn about that rule in any other state (see: the other I-335), so if OTA has an actual reason they'd prefer a 3 there, that's good enough for me.

I don't have any problem with OTA using SH-3XX designations on turnpikes. There is a 100 possible state route designations to use under that model. But the same thing just does NOT work at all as Interstates since there are only 3 possible routes -unless the OTA jumps off the cliff of sanity and starts requesting a bunch of bat-shit crazy orphan 3-digit Interstate designations, such as "I-364" or "I-375". That brand of stupidity shouldn't even be allowed to leave a private conference room and make it out into the public.

The fact remains the OTA and ODOT had better number choices to use for Interstate designations in the OKC area. They should have used I-X40 numbers rather than that dopey I-344 thing on the Kilpatrick Turnpike. I think it would have looked far more graceful on a map to have the Northern half of the Kilpatrick signed as I-440 (because it starts at I-44 and ends at I-40). Then the Southern part of the Kilpatrick could have been signed as I-240, that way I-240 could have been a continuous half loop with I-40. Both ends terminating at I-40. That makes a lot more sense than this crap we're seeing proposed now.

Trying to make the rejected I-42 a 3di starting in 3 would be asinine, but I don't think anyone ever actually proposed that.

I don't think anyone in any official DOT post has requested a 3 digit Interstate route for US-412. Despite I-42 being rejected I think it would have made perfect sense for that highway. The I-42 thing over in North Carolina will be barely long enough to justify a 2-digit Interstate designation. That's really the thing that could have been a 3-digit I-X40 route.

[Road Hog]

At this point I don't care what new interstate number is given in the Mid-South. Show me the baby.

[LilianaUwU]

Oklahoma should've done like California and simply upgraded the existing numbers to an Interstate shield.

[Scott5114]

One thing we can all agree on, however, is that whatever is happening here makes a hell of a lot more sense than whatever is going on with I-27 now.