Maryland

Started by Alps, May 22, 2011, 12:10:09 AM

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1995hoo

Quote from: kernals12 on July 21, 2021, 03:19:22 PM
270 Toll lanes are back on, baby!

The Anti-mobility lobby loses.

Not exactly. The vote means the project is again eligible for federal funding, but the project still has to go through additional environmental review and must pass the Maryland Board of Public Works. It's far from assured that anything will get built.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.


kernals12

It has broad regional support, even the Washington Post Editorial Board has supported it. And Virginia hasn't had problems getting HOT lanes built.

1995hoo

Quote from: kernals12 on July 21, 2021, 03:30:37 PM
It has broad regional support, even the Washington Post Editorial Board has supported it. And Virginia hasn't had problems getting HOT lanes built.

What does that have to do with whether the project happens? Don't forget that despite Governor Hogan generally being quite popular, Maryland is very much a one-party state, and that dynamic is highly relevant to transportation issues. Governor Hogan is also term-limited come next year's election, which is surely one reason why he is pushing to get the project started (thereby making it more difficult to cancel it) and the Democrats in Montgomery County are fighting hard to delay it (because it's easier to cancel a project that is not yet under construction).
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

kernals12

The Feds gave approval to Virginia's beltway toll lanes last week, what reason could there possibly be for blocking them in Maryland? Also, the widening of the AL Bridge has pretty much unanimous support, it was Hogan's means of paying for it that was controversial.

1995hoo

Quote from: kernals12 on July 21, 2021, 04:33:44 PM
The Feds gave approval to Virginia's beltway toll lanes last week, what reason could there possibly be for blocking them in Maryland? Also, the widening of the AL Bridge has pretty much unanimous support, it was Hogan's means of paying for it that was controversial.

You really don't understand Maryland politics if you feel the need to ask that question.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

MASTERNC

Looks like construction for the next segment of the I-95 ETLs is starting.

https://mdta.maryland.gov/blog-category/mdta-traffic-advisories/reconstruction-northbound-i-95-md-43-south-md-152

For anyone interested, plans show speed cameras at the end of the current ETLs covering both regular and express lanes.

Rothman

Quote from: 1995hoo on July 21, 2021, 03:49:05 PM
Quote from: kernals12 on July 21, 2021, 03:30:37 PM
It has broad regional support, even the Washington Post Editorial Board has supported it. And Virginia hasn't had problems getting HOT lanes built.

What does that have to do with whether the project happens? Don't forget that despite Governor Hogan generally being quite popular, Maryland is very much a one-party state, and that dynamic is highly relevant to transportation issues. Governor Hogan is also term-limited come next year's election, which is surely one reason why he is pushing to get the project started (thereby making it more difficult to cancel it) and the Democrats in Montgomery County are fighting hard to delay it (because it's easier to cancel a project that is not yet under construction).
If Maryland is a one-party state, then the Governor and Legislature would be of the same party.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

1995hoo

Quote from: Rothman on July 22, 2021, 10:42:37 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 21, 2021, 03:49:05 PM
Quote from: kernals12 on July 21, 2021, 03:30:37 PM
It has broad regional support, even the Washington Post Editorial Board has supported it. And Virginia hasn't had problems getting HOT lanes built.

What does that have to do with whether the project happens? Don't forget that despite Governor Hogan generally being quite popular, Maryland is very much a one-party state, and that dynamic is highly relevant to transportation issues. Governor Hogan is also term-limited come next year's election, which is surely one reason why he is pushing to get the project started (thereby making it more difficult to cancel it) and the Democrats in Montgomery County are fighting hard to delay it (because it's easier to cancel a project that is not yet under construction).
If Maryland is a one-party state, then the Governor and Legislature would be of the same party.

But I said "very much," which is different from "entirely."
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

cpzilliacus

Quote from: kernals12 on July 21, 2021, 04:33:44 PM
The Feds gave approval to Virginia's beltway toll lanes last week, what reason could there possibly be for blocking them in Maryland? Also, the widening of the AL Bridge has pretty much unanimous support, it was Hogan's means of paying for it that was controversial.

I disagree with your last sentence.

While few will say so for public consumption, there are persons and groups that have as their highest priority blocking by any means available any improved highway connection or connections between Montgomery County, Maryland and Northern Virginia. 

This includes an improved American Legion Bridge or any new crossing anywhere between Montgomery and Northern Virginia - to them the Potomac River is sort of a Berlin Wall, intended to keep the two as far away from each other as possible.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

jmacswimmer

Quote from: cpzilliacus on July 23, 2021, 08:03:56 AM
Quote from: kernals12 on July 21, 2021, 04:33:44 PM
The Feds gave approval to Virginia's beltway toll lanes last week, what reason could there possibly be for blocking them in Maryland? Also, the widening of the AL Bridge has pretty much unanimous support, it was Hogan's means of paying for it that was controversial.

I disagree with your last sentence.

While few will say so for public consumption, there are persons and groups that have as their highest priority blocking by any means available any improved highway connection or connections between Montgomery County, Maryland and Northern Virginia. 

This includes an improved American Legion Bridge or any new crossing anywhere between Montgomery and Northern Virginia - to them the Potomac River is sort of a Berlin Wall, intended to keep the two as far away from each other as possible.

Building off the above:

While there may be some actual concern from local politicians over the P3 structure given the ongoing Purple Line mess, I guarantee that a lot of them are just using that as their on-the-record "reason" to oppose the project while it actually has more to do with what cpzilliacus is alluding to (same reason a Potomac crossing connecting VA 28/I-370/ICC will likely never happen).

If the project suddenly pivoted away from P3 funding to traditional funding tomorrow, I'd wager a guess that those same politicians would suddenly be whining about how that'd be a huge misuse of tax dollars :pan:
"Now, what if da Bearss were to enter the Indianapolis 5-hunnert?"
"How would they compete?"
"Let's say they rode together in a big buss."
"Is Ditka driving?"
"Of course!"
"Then I like da Bear buss."
"DA BEARSSS BUSSSS"

cpzilliacus

#2110
Quote from: jmacswimmer on July 23, 2021, 09:20:13 AM
If the project suddenly pivoted away from P3 funding to traditional funding tomorrow, I'd wager a guess that those same politicians would suddenly be whining about how that'd be a huge misuse of tax dollars :pan:

My prediction is that the same persons and groups would be demanding that all of the money be spent on a new light rail line or Metrorail extension someplace (not crossing the Potomac River).

That method was tried during the ICC wars of the 1980's, 1990's and 2000's - but those demands from environmental and civic activists and obstructionists got less and less credible as it became clear that Maryland was going to build MD-200 (ICC) as a toll road, with much of the construction cost funded by MDTA toll revenue bonds, which were not going to be used to fund a rail line that could never come close to covering its operating costs (and no chance of recovering the capital cost from fares collected).

One obstructionist got a long presentation onto the agenda before either the Montgomery County Council or a County Council committee or the Montgomery County Planning Board (not sure which) where he touted a light rail line that would run from Shady Grove along the master-planned route of the ICC to an eastern terminus at MD-97 (Georgia Avenue) near Norbeck Road. Not sure how that was going to get any traffic from I-270 to I-95 but this guy was confident that he had a better idea than building the ICC.  One excuse offered for not going further east were the non-native brown trout in the Paint Branch of the Anacostia River, and because he was opposed to the development of Konterra in Prince George's County around the then proposed interchange of MD-200 and I-95.
                                                                                                                                                         
For reasons not clear to me, the whole idea of Konterra energized and whipped-up rage among Montgomery County civic activist and obstructionist groups - never mind that nearly all of it is in Prince George's County - and the land that Konterra will be built on is nearly all mined-out sand and gravel deposits (not exactly greenfields).
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

mrsman

Quote from: cpzilliacus on July 23, 2021, 01:13:24 PM
Quote from: jmacswimmer on July 23, 2021, 09:20:13 AM
If the project suddenly pivoted away from P3 funding to traditional funding tomorrow, I'd wager a guess that those same politicians would suddenly be whining about how that'd be a huge misuse of tax dollars :pan:

My prediction is that the same persons and groups would be demanding that all of the money be spent on a new light rail line or Metrorail extension someplace (not crossing the Potomac River).

That method was tried during the ICC wars of the 1980's, 1990's and 2000's - but those demands from environmental and civic activists and obstructionists got less and less credible as it became clear that Maryland was going to build MD-200 (ICC) as a toll road, with much of the construction cost funded by MDTA toll revenue bonds, which were not going to be used to fund a rail line that could never come close to covering its operating costs (and no chance of recovering the capital cost from fares collected).

One obstructionist got a long presentation onto the agenda before either the Montgomery County Council or a County Council committee or the Montgomery County Planning Board (not sure which) where he touted a light rail line that would run from Shady Grove along the master-planned route of the ICC to an eastern terminus at MD-97 (Georgia Avenue) near Norbeck Road. Not sure how that was going to get any traffic from I-270 to I-95 but this guy was confident that he had a better idea than building the ICC.  One excuse offered for not going further east were the non-native brown trout in the Paint Branch of the Anacostia River, and because he was opposed to the development of Konterra in Prince George's County around the then proposed interchange of MD-200 and I-95.
                                                                                                                                                         
For reasons not clear to me, the whole idea of Konterra energized and whipped-up rage among Montgomery County civic activist and obstructionist groups - never mind that nearly all of it is in Prince George's County - and the land that Konterra will be built on is nearly all mined-out sand and gravel deposits (not exactly greenfields).

And sometimes it does require a Republican governor to just push through the logjam of the local Dems at the county and state levels.

IIRC, (as this occurred around the time I moved to MD) Gov. Glendening - D was opposed.  Gov. Erlich - R supported the ICC and finally put enough state funding to begin the project.  The building of the ICC was certainly popular, and may have helped him get elected, despite the very D lean of the state. 

We may face the same issue right now.  Gov. Hogan - R has heavily put forward many pro-motorist proposals, including the toll lanes projects.  Perhaps, as the latest news seems to indicate, he may be successful enough to at least achieve a groundbreaking of the toll lanes before he leaves office in 1.5 years.

cpzilliacus

#2112
Quote from: mrsman on July 26, 2021, 07:49:56 PM
And sometimes it does require a Republican governor to just push through the logjam of the local Dems at the county and state levels.

IIRC, (as this occurred around the time I moved to MD) Gov. Glendening - D was opposed.  Gov. Erlich - R supported the ICC and finally put enough state funding to begin the project.  The building of the ICC was certainly popular, and may have helped him get elected, despite the very D lean of the state. 

We may face the same issue right now.  Gov. Hogan - R has heavily put forward many pro-motorist proposals, including the toll lanes projects.  Perhaps, as the latest news seems to indicate, he may be successful enough to at least achieve a groundbreaking of the toll lanes before he leaves office in 1.5 years.

This is correct.  Both Robert Ehrlich Jr. and Larry Hogan Jr. were elected in part thanks to missteps by their opponents on transportation matters.

Ehrlich stated very clearly that he wanted the MD-200 project approved and built, his predecessor Parris Glendening changed his mind in office (he campaigned in favor of the road in 1994), changed his mind to oppose it after the 1998 election (contrary to what his blue-ribbon advisory committee told him) and Glendening was term-limited out in 2002, so the race was against Glendening's Lt. Governor Kathleen Kennedy Townsend on the Democratic side.  Glendening became increasingly unpopular toward the end of his second term, and while obstructionist and environmental activists in the two large Washington suburban counties loved him for "cancelling" the ICC, that did Townsend little good in a statewide election, for while the obstructionists were and are loud, there are not that many of them.  Townsend foolishly said that she would restart the study that Glendening had cancelled several years earlier, but did not agree to promote and support its construction, and I think it cost her the election.

In 2006, Baltimore City Mayor Martin O'Malley defeated Ehrlich, and the obstructionists lobbied him hard to cancel the project, but O'Malley knew that the news media, especially the Washington Post editorial page, would torch him (and I think O'Malley also understood that the obstructionists have little power in a Maryland statewide election as well). So even though the MD-200 project was a winner in federal court, the obstructionists repeatedly demanded a "time out" (though they had one in federal court and it expired and revealed their claims as having little legal merit), and the road was built under O'Malley's leadership.

Forward to 2014, when O'Malley was term limited out, and his Lt. Governor Anthony G. Brown was the Democratic nominee to succeed O'Malley.   The O'Malley Administration had pushed a significant increase in the state fuel tax through the general assembly - with most of that money planned to go to build the Purple Line in the Maryland suburbs of D.C. and the Red Line to in Baltimore City and Baltimore County, and railfans were acting like they owned all of those tax dollars, which looked very bad.  The sum of Anthony Brown's transportation program was the Purple and Red Lines (and one unspecified interchange in Montgomery County), and Hogan correctly torched him for it.

Come election day, the Democratic Lt. Governor was again defeated by the Republican.  Voter turnout in the counties where these light rail lines would run was terrible (in other words, rail transit is not as popular on Election Day as its boosters would have us think).   Hogan ended up cancelling the Red Line and keeping a scaled-back Purple Line and to the outrage of the railfans, spent the money on highway projects around Maryland instead.  Anthony Brown went on to win election to the U.S. House of Representatives in the 2016 election - in the 4th District, where Republicans have zero chance of winning.

Bottom line - running for office statewide in Maryland means running for office of a state that where the suburban and exurban counties have a commanding share of the population in a popular vote (by my estimates, over 70% of the population in Maryland is suburban, and while there are some exceptions, trying to convert the state to a transit riding and apartment dwelling population is destined to fail).
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

kernals12

The Washington Post Editorial Board:

QuoteThe opposition to Mr. Hogan's plan is led by elitists who think people who must drive to work – in construction, health care, laboratories and countless other job sites ill-served by transit – should suffer in ever-worsening traffic.

Inject this into my veins

noelbotevera

#2114
Are there plans to improve I-70 through South Mountain (exits 35-42)? Cause apparently exit 29 needs fixing (...because it's a cloverleaf?) but not, you know, an accident prone stretch of road.

P.S. this bridge wasn't fixed even with exit 29 reconstruction (or heck exit 26 (I-81) repaving)

bluecountry

Quote from: MASTERNC on July 22, 2021, 08:49:17 AM
Looks like construction for the next segment of the I-95 ETLs is starting.

https://mdta.maryland.gov/blog-category/mdta-traffic-advisories/reconstruction-northbound-i-95-md-43-south-md-152

For anyone interested, plans show speed cameras at the end of the current ETLs covering both regular and express lanes.

So I'm confused, is the expansion just NB or SB?

Also, MD I 95 is awful north of MM 77 to north of Aberdeen, and frankly the Tydings bridge is inadequate.
Any plans to fix those?

cpzilliacus

Quote from: noelbotevera on August 01, 2021, 12:38:31 AM
Are there plans to improve I-70 through South Mountain? Cause apparently exit 29 needs fixing (...because it's a cloverleaf?) but not, you know, an accident prone stretch of road.

P.S. this bridge wasn't fixed even with exit 29 reconstruction (or heck exit 26 (I-81) repaving)

The crest of South Mountain (a/k/a Blue Ridge) is a considerable distance (12.5 miles) east of the I-81 interchange southwest of Hagerstown.    The area around Hagerstown is generally not called South Mountain.

To answer your question, I have not heard of any plans for changes to I-70 between I-81 (Exit 26) and U.S. 40 (exit 32) but I do not normally follow what goes on in Washington County so closely.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

TheOneKEA

Quote from: bluecountry on August 14, 2021, 08:21:24 PM
Quote from: MASTERNC on July 22, 2021, 08:49:17 AM
Looks like construction for the next segment of the I-95 ETLs is starting.

https://mdta.maryland.gov/blog-category/mdta-traffic-advisories/reconstruction-northbound-i-95-md-43-south-md-152

For anyone interested, plans show speed cameras at the end of the current ETLs covering both regular and express lanes.

So I'm confused, is the expansion just NB or SB?

Also, MD I 95 is awful north of MM 77 to north of Aberdeen, and frankly the Tydings bridge is inadequate.
Any plans to fix those?

Right now, only the northbound ETL carriage way is being constructed due to lack of available funds. Traffic going north is substantially worse due to the lane drop at MP 77 and the ascending gradient north of MD 24. Unless the plans changed again the northbound ETLs will terminate just north of Exit 80 (MD 543), just before the entrance ramp to Maryland House.

There is a longer-term program to widen I-95 to eight lanes beyond MD 543, across the Susquehanna and throughout Cecil County. In my personal opinion the Tydings Bridge should be expanded sufficiently when the widening occurs to allow for future ETL extensions beyond MD 543.

noelbotevera

Quote from: cpzilliacus on August 14, 2021, 10:00:26 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on August 01, 2021, 12:38:31 AM
Are there plans to improve I-70 through South Mountain? Cause apparently exit 29 needs fixing (...because it's a cloverleaf?) but not, you know, an accident prone stretch of road.

P.S. this bridge wasn't fixed even with exit 29 reconstruction (or heck exit 26 (I-81) repaving)

The crest of South Mountain (a/k/a Blue Ridge) is a considerable distance (12.5 miles) east of the I-81 interchange southwest of Hagerstown.    The area around Hagerstown is generally not called South Mountain.

To answer your question, I have not heard of any plans for changes to I-70 between I-81 (Exit 26) and U.S. 40 (exit 32) but I do not normally follow what goes on in Washington County so closely.
To clarify; I mean the section between exits 35 and 42. I usually see accidents there and wonder why MDSHA chose to improve around Hagerstown instead of South Mountain.

cpzilliacus

#2119
Quote from: noelbotevera on August 15, 2021, 10:18:03 AM
To clarify; I mean the section between exits 35 and 42. I usually see accidents there and wonder why MDSHA chose to improve around Hagerstown instead of South Mountain.

I-70 eastbound east of the crest of South Mountain in Frederick County has a fair amount of truck crashes.  It is the longest (about 600' or 180 M) and curviest descent on I-70 in Maryland and excessive speed is often a contributing factor  (Catoctin Mountain to the east is about a 400' or 120 M descent and less curvy).
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

cpzilliacus

WTOP Radio: Public meeting provides chance to meet new owner of White's Ferry, get update on reopening plans

QuoteA meeting on Wednesday will be an opportunity for the public to meet the new owner of White's Ferry and hear updates on what's being done to reopen the historic Potomac River crossing between Montgomery County, Maryland, and Loudoun County, Virginia.

QuoteThe ferry has been closed since December, following a judge's decision in a decadelong court case brought by a Virginia property owner.

QuoteMaryland officials, including from the Montgomery County Department of Transportation, will be present at the meeting organized by the Town of Poolesville Fair Access Committee from 6:30 to 8 p.m. at the Poolesville Town Hall.

QuoteMontgomery and Loudoun counties have been working together on a study of the ferry's operation since June 23.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

bluecountry

Quote from: noelbotevera on August 01, 2021, 12:38:31 AM
Are there plans to improve I-70 through South Mountain (exits 35-42)? Cause apparently exit 29 needs fixing (...because it's a cloverleaf?) but not, you know, an accident prone stretch of road.

P.S. this bridge wasn't fixed even with exit 29 reconstruction (or heck exit 26 (I-81) repaving)
My god it SO needs work.
IMO, I-70 NEEDS to be six lanes from the I-270/US 15 merge in Fredneck to I-81.
West of I-81 the volume drops off a lot, likely due to trucks going from the Port of Baltimore/Wilmington/Philly to the SW.

I wish they were going to do this project.

bluecountry

Quote from: TheOneKEA on August 15, 2021, 07:45:47 AM
Quote from: bluecountry on August 14, 2021, 08:21:24 PM
Quote from: MASTERNC on July 22, 2021, 08:49:17 AM
Looks like construction for the next segment of the I-95 ETLs is starting.

https://mdta.maryland.gov/blog-category/mdta-traffic-advisories/reconstruction-northbound-i-95-md-43-south-md-152

For anyone interested, plans show speed cameras at the end of the current ETLs covering both regular and express lanes.

So I'm confused, is the expansion just NB or SB?

Also, MD I 95 is awful north of MM 77 to north of Aberdeen, and frankly the Tydings bridge is inadequate.
Any plans to fix those?

Right now, only the northbound ETL carriage way is being constructed due to lack of available funds. Traffic going north is substantially worse due to the lane drop at MP 77 and the ascending gradient north of MD 24. Unless the plans changed again the northbound ETLs will terminate just north of Exit 80 (MD 543), just before the entrance ramp to Maryland House.

There is a longer-term program to widen I-95 to eight lanes beyond MD 543, across the Susquehanna and throughout Cecil County. In my personal opinion the Tydings Bridge should be expanded sufficiently when the widening occurs to allow for future ETL extensions beyond MD 543.

1.  Hmmmm, I wonder how that merge will work with the express lanes ending at the MD House?  That already is a bad merge due to it being a left hand one...would it have been better to do the merge after the MD House not before?

2.  I disagree about NB 95 being worse; SB 95 from Aberdeen to exit 77, and really to the local express lanes, sucks. 
Man, MD REALLY sucks compared to VA, the express lanes should  be bi-directional or at least reversible.
Moreover, I hate how they don't incentivize HOV.

3.  Do you have any links to the plans to make 95 eight lanes to Cecil County.

4.  IMO, for this section of 95, it should be:
-12 lanes to exit 80 (4 free + 2 HOT)
-10 lanes exit 80 across the Tydings (3 free + 2 HOT)
-8 lanes in Cecil county to DE

This is a long distance corridor crowded well beyond peak.

bluecountry

Question on I-495/95 in PG:

1) There is a lot of construction in the portion from the Potomac River to Landover, what is going on?

2) Also the local/express configuration is 3 local/2 express across the bridge, but it appears there is ample need and space to make it 3 local/3 express, why isn't it this way and are there plans?

Alex4897

Quote from: bluecountry on August 28, 2021, 01:44:13 AM
2) Also the local/express configuration is 3 local/2 express across the bridge, but it appears there is ample need and space to make it 3 local/3 express, why isn't it this way and are there plans?

I've been wondering the same thing. There's a 650 ft / 1,800 ft chunk on the WB / EB carriageways respectively in the middle of the US 1 interchange where the extra wide left shoulder vanishes inexplicably. Does this have anything to do with it?
👉😎👉



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