New York State Thruway

[Beltway]

For some reason I thought I read somewhere once that internally the Northeast Extension's mile markers are preceded with an "A."  It is possible that I'm thinking of another road though.

Apparently not --
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.1800366,-75.3098268,3a,37.5y,336h,84.19t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sNQNChHebnm4iN-8BNa5TWA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Based on the location, that would be I-476 mileposting, which starts at I-95.

[vdeane]

I wish I could find some legible older imagery.  The old pole milemakers would be more indicative of whether they were ever preceded by an A, but the recent MUTCD markers wouldn't show it.

[ipeters61]

I wish I could find some legible older imagery.  The old pole milemakers would be more indicative of whether they were ever preceded by an A, but the recent MUTCD markers wouldn't show it.

Yeah I might have seen it in some old photos somewhere.  I know the State Museum of PA in Harrisburg had a fair collection of old PA Turnpike photos so I'm tempted to say I saw it there.

EDIT - AHA!  Found it, it was at the State Museum after all:

[Roadwarriors79]

If there’s one argument for the Thruway keeping their existing exit numbers, or going mile-based with either I-90 or I-87 having “backwards” numbers, it’s the fact that a few other toll roads still use their own numbering rather than the 2di numbering. I-70 on the Kansas Turnpike, I-80 on the Tri State Tollway (in Illinois), I-76 on the Ohio Turnpike, and I-95 on the New Jersey Turnpike.

[briantroutman]

[photo of PTC system status board]

I've only seen a much lower-resolution picture of that board on Jeff Kitsko's site, so thanks for posting it! I believe as of the time he photographed it, the board was on display at PTC headquarters somewhere. So if it's now in the State Museum, I'll have to check it out next time in Harrisburg.

A few specifics about the board that I find interesting:

- It shows a dashed outline depicting the approximate location of the abandoned Rays/Sideling section (though not very accurately. Why this was considered relevant to add to the board, I don't know. Contingency plans to route emergency detours through the old tunnels?

- Another dashed outline shows the approximate location of the old Laurel Hill alignment (again, why?) but it's on the wrong side

- Many long-closed service plazas are listed, including Pleasant Valley, Path Valley, Mechanicsburg, and Denver

- The Peter J. Camiel Service Plaza was originally named Brandywine (I had long wondered)

[Beltway]

The PTC system status board is obviously old technology with the use of different colors of incandescent bulbs for status.  It shows I-80 complete and that occurred in 1970.  The tunnel bypasses were completed in 1965 and 1968. 

If the board was taken out of service around or just after 1970, then I suppose those old alignments were still in very good condition to handle traffic if needed for some reason.

[Brandon]

Except I'm pretty sure California has nothing like a Thruway to throw a monkey wrench into exit numbering.

Yet, Illinois has the Tri-State Tollway and handled it just fine.  Originally, it was one set of mileposts (no exit numbers) starting at I-80/94/IL-394 all the way to US-41 near Wisconsin.  ISTHA reversed the mileposts from US-41 south to the I-94/294 split, and I-94 has its exit numbers following the proper mileposts from Wisconsin.  NYSTA can do the same thing on a larger scale.

Pennsylvania has the NE Extension and the E-W Turnpike duplicating mile posts as well.  Though the exit numbers were carefully not to duplicate, though the two schemes never caused confusion for PTC either.

Plus the NE Extension is physically a different road than the mainline Turnpike, even though they both share a ticket system.

Regarding an Illinois system, that sounds like the 2003 plan.  That would have flipped the mileposts of the Thruway, with all of I-90 using its own numbers, and the Deegan and Northway sharing a numbering system.  The I-87 part of the Thruway would have been numbered backwards continuing from I-90 at existing exit 24.

Personally, I'm not really a fan of that plan.  I'd rather have the routes do strange things on their existing mileages rather than have them do strange things on new mileages.

What the Thruway was proposing is what ISTHA did prior to 2015 or so.  I-294 counted up, and I-94 counted down.  Now both count the correct way (toward Deerfield).  Hence, the Tri-State has two of the following exits (with no confusion):

Exit 2
I-94: IL-173, Rosecrans Rd
I-294: IL-1, Halsted St

Exit 8
I-94: IL-132, Grand Av
I-294: IL-83, 147th St

Exit 27
I-94: IL-43, Waukegan Rd
I-294: US-34, Ogden Av

There's no reason the Thruway can't do it too.

[ipeters61]

The PTC system status board is obviously old technology with the use of different colors of incandescent bulbs for status.  It shows I-80 complete and that occurred in 1970.  The tunnel bypasses were completed in 1965 and 1968. 

If the board was taken out of service around or just after 1970, then I suppose those old alignments were still in very good condition to handle traffic if needed for some reason.

Another thing that dates it is the use of I-81E instead of I-380, which Wikipedia tells me changed in 1973.

[Beltway]

The PTC system status board is obviously old technology with the use of different colors of incandescent bulbs for status.  It shows I-80 complete and that occurred in 1970.  The tunnel bypasses were completed in 1965 and 1968. 
If the board was taken out of service around or just after 1970, then I suppose those old alignments were still in very good condition to handle traffic if needed for some reason.

Another thing that dates it is the use of I-81E instead of I-380, which Wikipedia tells me changed in 1973.

I drove thru there in 1972 and 1973 (actually was on a bus) and observed the tunnel bypasses with interest, but I can't recall whether the tie-ins between old and new were still traffic usable then.

[odditude]

The PTC system status board is obviously old technology with the use of different colors of incandescent bulbs for status.

not necessarily - indicator lights like these are still regularly used on all sorts of industrial equipment, even if there is a modern touchscreen HMI to go alongside them. They're easy to maintain and even easier to see at-a-glance.

[Beltway]

The PTC system status board is obviously old technology with the use of different colors of incandescent bulbs for status.

not necessarily - indicator lights like these are still regularly used on all sorts of industrial equipment, even if there is a modern touchscreen HMI to go alongside them. They're easy to maintain and even easier to see at-a-glance.

Well, ok, to expound on it, the whole board had the 'look and feel' of something out of the 1950s or 1960s.  Kind of like looking at the cockpit and instruments of an airliner retired in the 1960s, now in a museum.  All old tech and no newer tech.

[ipeters61]

The PTC system status board is obviously old technology with the use of different colors of incandescent bulbs for status.

not necessarily - indicator lights like these are still regularly used on all sorts of industrial equipment, even if there is a modern touchscreen HMI to go alongside them. They're easy to maintain and even easier to see at-a-glance.

Well, ok, to expound on it, the whole board had the 'look and feel' of something out of the 1950s or 1960s.  Kind of like looking at the cockpit and instruments of an airliner retired in the 1960s, now in a museum.  All old tech and no newer tech.

Not to continue the off topic issue (I did post this in the PA Turnpike thread earlier this morning), I've toured a C-5 which is still in service and they still use some analog instruments.

[thenetwork]

Except I'm pretty sure California has nothing like a Thruway to throw a monkey wrench into exit numbering.

Yet, Illinois has the Tri-State Tollway and handled it just fine.  Originally, it was one set of mileposts (no exit numbers) starting at I-80/94/IL-394 all the way to US-41 near Wisconsin.  ISTHA reversed the mileposts from US-41 south to the I-94/294 split, and I-94 has its exit numbers following the proper mileposts from Wisconsin.  NYSTA can do the same thing on a larger scale.

Pennsylvania has the NE Extension and the E-W Turnpike duplicating mile posts as well.  Though the exit numbers were carefully not to duplicate, though the two schemes never caused confusion for PTC either.

Plus the NE Extension is physically a different road than the mainline Turnpike, even though they both share a ticket system.

Regarding an Illinois system, that sounds like the 2003 plan.  That would have flipped the mileposts of the Thruway, with all of I-90 using its own numbers, and the Deegan and Northway sharing a numbering system.  The I-87 part of the Thruway would have been numbered backwards continuing from I-90 at existing exit 24.

Personally, I'm not really a fan of that plan.  I'd rather have the routes do strange things on their existing mileages rather than have them do strange things on new mileages.

What the Thruway was proposing is what ISTHA did prior to 2015 or so.  I-294 counted up, and I-94 counted down.  Now both count the correct way (toward Deerfield).  Hence, the Tri-State has two of the following exits (with no confusion):

Exit 2
I-94: IL-173, Rosecrans Rd
I-294: IL-1, Halsted St

Exit 8
I-94: IL-132, Grand Av
I-294: IL-83, 147th St

Exit 27
I-94: IL-43, Waukegan Rd
I-294: US-34, Ogden Av

There's no reason the Thruway can't do it too.

On a similar vein, where I-76 and I-77 overlap in Akron Ohio, the multiplex uses the I-76 mile markers for mileage and exit numbers.

So heading north on I-77, a driver meets I-76 at Exit 125.  Once on the multiplex, I-77 sees exits 25-20, with the exit numbers and mile markers going DOWN as it continues north.  At the western I-76/I-77 split, I-77 north returns to it's increasing mileage/exit numbers beginning at Exit 129.

Therefore, if I-90 has to refer to I-87's mileage grid for a few miles around Albany, it shouldn't be a big deal as any "duplicate" exit numbers for I-90 travelers would be on opposite ends of the state and the chance of confusing exit numbers would be less than 2%.

[akotchi]

For some reason I thought I read somewhere once that internally the Northeast Extension's mile markers are preceded with an "A."  It is possible that I'm thinking of another road though.

They used to be, before the Mid-County interchange was completed and the Extension was changed to I-476.  I think they were even signed in the field that way, too.

[briantroutman]

Since the lpeters reposted the PTC system status board over on the PA Turnpike News thread, I'll post my next comment over there.

[Mr_Northside]

For some reason I thought I read somewhere once that internally the Northeast Extension's mile markers are preceded with an "A."  It is possible that I'm thinking of another road though.

Apparently not --
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.1800366,-75.3098268,3a,37.5y,336h,84.19t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sNQNChHebnm4iN-8BNa5TWA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Based on the location, that would be I-476 mileposting, which starts at I-95.

They may not be posted like that on the highway, but the PTC must use them "internally".
If you go to their construction projects page on their website, NE Ext projects with mileage names use the A before the number.

[qguy]

The Peter J. Camiel Service Plaza was originally named Brandywine (I had long wondered)

Should've asked some of us old heads around here could've told ya. 

I believe the formal name is "Peter J. Camiel Service Plaza at Brandywine."

[Beltway]

The Peter J. Camiel Service Plaza was originally named Brandywine (I had long wondered)

Should've asked some of us old heads around here could've told ya. 
I believe the formal name is "Peter J. Camiel Service Plaza at Brandywine."

There is the Camiel Curve on the Pottstown Expressway.

[kalvado]

The Peter J. Camiel Service Plaza was originally named Brandywine (I had long wondered)

Should've asked some of us old heads around here could've told ya. 
I believe the formal name is "Peter J. Camiel Service Plaza at Brandywine."

There is the Camiel Curve on the Pottstown Expressway.

Should there be Cuomo Stretch in Hale Eddy? 

[PHLBOS]

For some reason I thought I read somewhere once that internally the Northeast Extension's mile markers are preceded with an "A."  It is possible that I'm thinking of another road though.

Apparently not --
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.1800366,-75.3098268,3a,37.5y,336h,84.19t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sNQNChHebnm4iN-8BNa5TWA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Based on the location, that would be I-476 mileposting, which starts at I-95.

Prior to the Northeast Extension becoming an extension of I-476 circa 1996; MM 0 was indeed at the I-276 interchange.  While the printed PA Turnpike roadmaps listed the NE Extension's mile markers as Axx; the actual mile markers out in the field did not contain the A prefix.

[Flyer78]

To add another memory point, I do recall at least some prefixed mile-markers, placed perhaps during the conversion of guard-rail to the Jersey barriers now in use. Definitely had no A prefix when the centerline mile markers were reset to include  Blue Route mileage (which if I recall correctly occurred as part of the exit number conversion.)

I think the smaller tenth posts/reflectors had an A, either as a suffix or prefix - but these have all been replaced by enhanced mile markers.

Finally, pretty sure the call boxes had the prefix with their locators.

[PHLBOS]

Blue Route mileage (which if I recall correctly occurred as part of the exit number conversion.)

The mileage markers along the NE Extension changed when the road received the I-476 designation circa 1996.  The exit numbers weren't converted until 2000-2001.

[Flyer78]

Here is an example of the suffixed tenth mile sign.



https://goo.gl/images/2STSBa

[Flyer78]

Blue Route mileage (which if I recall correctly occurred as part of the exit number conversion.)

The mileage markers along the NE Extension changed when the road received the I-476 designation circa 1996.  The exit numbers weren't converted until 2000-2001.

This article, from 2000, indicates the change was part of the exit number project:


http://articles.mcall.com/2000-11-02/news/3334595_1_exit-numbers-new-exit-turnpike-commission

The numbers on the mileage markers will not change, with the exception of those on the Northeast Extension, where they will now reflect the miles from the start of Interstate 476 at Chester, Delaware County, rather than where the Extension used to start at the Mid-County Interchange in Montgomery County.

[PHLBOS]

Got it.  My previous post has been edited to reflect such.