New York State Thruway

[Beltway]

I think that the original plan was to route the Thruway through NJ down Route 17 to the NJ Turnpike and then onward to the GWB.  It would be useful to have that routing today.

New Jersey would have to agree to participate in that.  Unless they were willing then the point is moot. 

Therefore a NY Thruway routing would be entirely within NYS and be routed somewhere around the Tappan Zee area.

[ipeters61]

I think that the original plan was to route the Thruway through NJ down Route 17 to the NJ Turnpike and then onward to the GWB.  It would be useful to have that routing today.

New Jersey would have to agree to participate in that.  Unless they were willing then the point is moot. 

Therefore a NY Thruway routing would be entirely within NYS and be routed somewhere around the Tappan Zee area.

I know this (very roughly) describes the current routing but I would imagine starting the NY Thruway at the end of the Palisades Parkway or Garden State Parkway being logical (with the connection to the GWB being something like NJ-3).  Of course the big issue is that the parkways restrict trucks...

By the way, going off topic, but do you know if the Garden State Parkway bans buses?  I remember taking a Peter Pan from NYC to Hartford and the driver took the Lincoln Tunnel to NJ-3 to the GS Parkway up to the Tappan Zee.  Seemed odd to me because I thought the GS Parkway was strictly for cars.

[Beltway]

New Jersey would have to agree to participate in that.  Unless they were willing then the point is moot. 
Therefore a NY Thruway routing would be entirely within NYS and be routed somewhere around the Tappan Zee area.

I know this (very roughly) describes the current routing but I would imagine starting the NY Thruway at the end of the Palisades Parkway or Garden State Parkway being logical (with the connection to the GWB being something like NJ-3).  Of course the big issue is that the parkways restrict trucks...

The construction of the NY Thruway well predated the Palisades Interstate Parkway (PIP), and the PIP is a parkway not designed for large trucks.  Likewise the Garden State Parkway is not designed for trucks.

The Tappan Zee Bridge location also was well situated for the Cross Westchester Expressway corridor which was the beginnings of an outer bypass of NYC (I-287).

Even before I-287 was completed in New Jersey, the preferred I-95 bypass (per AAA routings, at least for cars) of NYC was to use the Garden State Parkway and the NY Thruway and the Tappan Zee Bridge and the Cross Westchester Expressway.

So I can see multiple reasons for the location of the Tappan Zee Bridge besides the alleged intent to avoid PANYNJ administration.

[Roadrunner75]

By the way, going off topic, but do you know if the Garden State Parkway bans buses?  I remember taking a Peter Pan from NYC to Hartford and the driver took the Lincoln Tunnel to NJ-3 to the GS Parkway up to the Tappan Zee.  Seemed odd to me because I thought the GS Parkway was strictly for cars.

Buses are allowed on the Parkway - Just not trucks north of 105.

[Alps]

Well, it's not opening after all.
https://www.lohud.com/story/news/local/rockland/2018/09/07/fears-tappan-zee-bridge-could-collapse-boats-barred/1232918002/

And whose fault is it for building the two spans so close to the old one?

1. The problem as I understand it is unrelated to the foundations, so building the bridges close together is not the issue. Yes, it's the reason traffic isn't on the new bridge right now, but the new bridge isn't causing the old one to be in danger of collapse, and you're not going to get additional capacity from the new bridge (still 4 lanes, just with shoulders now).
2. The Port Authority jurisdiction was and still is the reason for the bridge location. It was a factor in why the new bridges are north of the original Tap.

[Beltway]

2. The Port Authority jurisdiction was and still is the reason for the bridge location. It was a factor in why the new bridges are north of the original Tap.

So what is the exact boundary for PANYNJ administration?   Is there a legal definition per charter?

PANYNJ is an interstate compact and there really shouldn't be a need to utilize it when building a bridge entirely within one state.

[Alps]

2. The Port Authority jurisdiction was and still is the reason for the bridge location. It was a factor in why the new bridges are north of the original Tap.

So what is the exact boundary for PANYNJ administration?   Is there a legal definition per charter?

PANYNJ is an interstate compact and there really shouldn't be a need to utilize it when building a bridge entirely within one state.

A radius of 25 miles from the Statue of Liberty, up the Hudson. The existing Tap is less than 26 miles, I believe.

[Beltway]

So what is the exact boundary for PANYNJ administration?   Is there a legal definition per charter?
PANYNJ is an interstate compact and there really shouldn't be a need to utilize it when building a bridge entirely within one state.

A radius of 25 miles from the Statue of Liberty, up the Hudson. The existing Tap is less than 26 miles, I believe.

Participation seems voluntary when solely within NY, as the Verrazano-Narrows Bridge is less than 10 miles from that and is administered by the Triborough Bridge and Tunnel Authority, aka MTA Bridges and Tunnels.

[kalvado]

2. The Port Authority jurisdiction was and still is the reason for the bridge location. It was a factor in why the new bridges are north of the original Tap.

is the bridge really that close to the line? I kn ow it is just outside the circle, but that degree of accuracy is crazy...
UPD: if Google maps measurements are to be believed, it is 27.20 miles to the closest point of old bridge...

[Alps]

So what is the exact boundary for PANYNJ administration?   Is there a legal definition per charter?
PANYNJ is an interstate compact and there really shouldn't be a need to utilize it when building a bridge entirely within one state.

A radius of 25 miles from the Statue of Liberty, up the Hudson. The existing Tap is less than 26 miles, I believe.

Participation seems voluntary when solely within NY, as the Verrazano-Narrows Bridge is less than 10 miles from that and is administered by the Triborough Bridge and Tunnel Authority, aka MTA Bridges and Tunnels.

Hudson River only. It's because of the bi-state compact. Any crossing within 25 miles would jeopardize the Port Authority's monopoly. Also, the one site I used said Statue of Liberty, but I may have heard Battery before. I know the Tap is about 25.2 miles from whatever "it" is.

[cl94]

So what is the exact boundary for PANYNJ administration?   Is there a legal definition per charter?
PANYNJ is an interstate compact and there really shouldn't be a need to utilize it when building a bridge entirely within one state.

A radius of 25 miles from the Statue of Liberty, up the Hudson. The existing Tap is less than 26 miles, I believe.

Participation seems voluntary when solely within NY, as the Verrazano-Narrows Bridge is less than 10 miles from that and is administered by the Triborough Bridge and Tunnel Authority, aka MTA Bridges and Tunnels.

Hudson River only. It's because of the bi-state compact. Any crossing within 25 miles would jeopardize the Port Authority's monopoly. Also, the one site I used said Statue of Liberty, but I may have heard Battery before. I know the Tap is about 25.2 miles from whatever "it" is.

I'm 75% certain it's the Battery. Which is definitely under 26 miles from the old bridge.

[Beltway]

Participation seems voluntary when solely within NY, as the Verrazano-Narrows Bridge is less than 10 miles from that and is administered by the Triborough Bridge and Tunnel Authority, aka MTA Bridges and Tunnels.

Hudson River only. It's because of the bi-state compact. Any crossing within 25 miles would jeopardize the Port Authority's monopoly. Also, the one site I used said Statue of Liberty, but I may have heard Battery before. I know the Tap is about 25.2 miles from whatever "it" is.

I'm 75% certain it's the Battery. Which is definitely under 26 miles from the old bridge.

I was hoping that someone would quote the pertinent language in the PANYNJ charter.  If not I'll have to go digging myself and see what I can find.

[kalvado]

Participation seems voluntary when solely within NY, as the Verrazano-Narrows Bridge is less than 10 miles from that and is administered by the Triborough Bridge and Tunnel Authority, aka MTA Bridges and Tunnels.

Hudson River only. It's because of the bi-state compact. Any crossing within 25 miles would jeopardize the Port Authority's monopoly. Also, the one site I used said Statue of Liberty, but I may have heard Battery before. I know the Tap is about 25.2 miles from whatever "it" is.

I'm 75% certain it's the Battery. Which is definitely under 26 miles from the old bridge.

I was hoping that someone would quote the pertinent language in the PANYNJ charter.  If not I'll have to go digging myself and see what I can find.

Although port authority itself mentions 25 mile radius, original compact of 1921 has no radius definition, but a list of points defining port area.
https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/laws/PNY

Beginning at a point A of latitude forty-one degrees and four minutes north and longitude seventy-three degrees and fifty-six minutes west...

That segment of the border goes east-west across Hudson at 41°4' = 41.0666 deg, and the old bridge is at 41.0698 deg according to google maps, 1000 feet from the line.

But that laundry list of coordinates spelled out in the longest possible form...
UPD:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/41%C2%B004'00.0%22N+73%C2%B054'00.0%22W/@41.062611,-73.8997313,5088m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0x0!8m2!3d41.0666667!4d-73.9
Marker is on the border of PANYNJ jurisdiction, which goes exactly east-west across Hudson

[Beltway]

I was hoping that someone would quote the pertinent language in the PANYNJ charter.  If not I'll have to go digging myself and see what I can find.

Although port authority itself mentions 25 mile radius, original compact of 1921 has no radius definition, but a list of points defining port area.
https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/laws/PNY

Beginning at a point A of latitude forty-one degrees and four minutes north and longitude seventy-three degrees and fifty-six minutes west...

That segment of the border goes east-west across Hudson at 41°4' = 41.0666 deg, and the old bridge is at 41.0698 deg according to google maps, 1000 feet from the line.
But that laundry list of coordinates spelled out in the longest possible form...

https://www.usgs.gov/faqs/how-much-distance-does-a-degree-minute-and-second-cover-your-maps
At 38 degrees North latitude, one degree of latitude equals approximately 364,000 ft (69 miles), one minute equals 6068 ft (1.15 miles), one-second equals 101 ft; one-degree of longitude equals 288,200 ft (54.6 miles), one minute equals 4800 ft (0.91 mile), and one second equals 80 ft.
....

That is clear and precise enough, especially if interpreted to be 41°4'00.00" given that no seconds were specified.  I saw the long quote and (assuming the seconds are always 00.00) it looks precise enough that a survey party could have staked out the boundaries.

[Beltway]

This webpage shows a boundary that while not specifically cited as the official boundary, may indeed be that.

Overview of Facilities and Services
https://www.panynj.gov/about/facilities-services.html

[Roadwarriors79]

I think that the original plan was to route the Thruway through NJ down Route 17 to the NJ Turnpike and then onward to the GWB.  It would be useful to have that routing today.

I have never heard of any Thruway extension proposals into New Jersey. I do recall that at one time there were talks of extending the NJ Turnpike north to a connection with the Thruway. That proposal was killed decades ago.

[PHLBOS]

Well, it's not opening after all.
https://www.lohud.com/story/news/local/rockland/2018/09/07/fears-tappan-zee-bridge-could-collapse-boats-barred/1232918002/

The latest update has the new span slated to open tomorrow (Sept. 11) evening; weather permitting.
Mario Cuomo Bridge: New opening date set; contractors deem Tappan Zee Bridge 'stable'

Tappan Zee Constructors have recommended to the Thruway Authority that traffic can be shifted to the eastbound span of the new Gov. Mario M. Cuomo Bridge, and that the switch is scheduled for Tuesday evening, weather permitting.

Time will tell & could be subject to how far north along the East Coast Hurricane Florence's path goes.

[empirestate]

By the way, going off topic, but do you know if the Garden State Parkway bans buses?  I remember taking a Peter Pan from NYC to Hartford and the driver took the Lincoln Tunnel to NJ-3 to the GS Parkway up to the Tappan Zee.  Seemed odd to me because I thought the GS Parkway was strictly for cars.

Buses are allowed on the Parkway - Just not trucks north of 105.

However, trucks are allowed the Garden State Parkway Connection–i.e., the bit of it in New York that is part of the Thruway system.

[shadyjay]

Took a drive on the Thruway between Suffern and Albany this past weekend in both directions.  The southbound drive was in the dark, so I couldn't see much.  One thing I could (or couldn't) see were some new Clearview signs in spots which have no reflectivity.  These were around Exits 15A/15. 

Also, noticed some permanent variable message signs which advertised "GMCB ROADWORK".  A roadgeek would know that stands for "Governor Mario Cuomo Bridge", but I think the name is too new/not established enough to start using acronyms.  After all, this isn't the "GWB" we're talking about.

There are a ton of those "New York State Experience" signs and their accompanying signs for attractions, etc.  They appear about every 30 miles.  My first time seeing them mid-state.  What an eyesore.

The northbound trip was made in the daylight.  Not much has changed since my last drive on this section some 10 years ago.  There's construction going on along the New Baltimore northbound offramp.  It appeared to look like a service plaza construction, but consulting with the NYSTA website, looks to be the capital region welcome center being built. 

So that got me to looking around the Thruway site and found the contacts for conversion of the Spring Valley, New Rochelle, and Yonkers barriers to all-electronic tolling:
New Rochelle (let date 9/12)
Yonkers (let date 8/29)
Spring Valley (let date 10/3)
http://www.thruway.ny.gov/business/contractors/documents/index.shtml


And a link to the sign photos I got northbound from Exits 15A-24:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/shadyjay/albums/72157698882031051

[RobbieL2415]

I think that the original plan was to route the Thruway through NJ down Route 17 to the NJ Turnpike and then onward to the GWB.  It would be useful to have that routing today.

One can technically do this (as long as one isn't driving a commercial vehicle) by cruising down the Palisades Parkway.

[RobbieL2415]

2. The Port Authority jurisdiction was and still is the reason for the bridge location. It was a factor in why the new bridges are north of the original Tap.

So what is the exact boundary for PANYNJ administration?   Is there a legal definition per charter?

PANYNJ is an interstate compact and there really shouldn't be a need to utilize it when building a bridge entirely within one state.

A radius of 25 miles from the Statue of Liberty, up the Hudson. The existing Tap is less than 26 miles, I believe.

A bit off-topic, but why aren't all the MTA bridges and tunnels also controlled by the Port Authority?

[SignBridge]

I think the concept was that the Port Authority controlled all the crossings between NY & NJ and the Triboro (Robert Moses) B&T Authority controlled all crossings within NYC between boroughs. 

[vdeane]

None of the MTA bridges/tunnels cross the Hudson.  The Verrazano crosses The Narrows.  The Rockaway bridges cross Jamaica Bay.  The Henry Hudson crosses the Harlem River.  All the others cross the East River.

[SignBridge]

I can't believe they're going to open the new bridge on Sept. 11th. (!?!?!?) Some might consider it bad luck.

[seicer]

It's opening is apparently rushed in some political move to boost Cuomo's governor race. Not that he needs it against Nixon.