New York State Thruway

[Alps]

Wouldn't it make more sense to renumber the original alignments back to NY 17, since so many of its children (e.g. 17K, 17M) still exist? Or if they are all discontinuous, wouldn't it make sense to renumber those alignments with suffixes (e.g. 17T) or three digits (e.g. 170, 171).

You're bringing in different states' numbering rules. After this many decades of the old alignments having other numbers, I wouldn't seek to renumber them back to 17. If anything, I'd renumber the child routes.

[hbelkins]

-A more historical question: why does the Thruway cross the Hudson?

To give Cuomo a bridge to rename for his father.

[Flyer78]

-Why is the Sloatsburg/Ramapo pedestrian bridge closed to civilians? Ramapo is practically a McDonalds with a gas station and it could use variety, which Sloatsburg provides. I can understand why Ramapo was built this way (you're approaching NYC sprawl), but I don't see the point in closing the bridge.

I was familiar with the one on the I-90 mainline in the 80s and early 90s. (Used to connect the westbound Iroquois to the eastbound Indian Castle, mp 210) After the renovations of the early 90s, all the plaza's were redone, though some had a cheaper rebuild than others - You describe Ramapo well. I guess I don't have an official answer, but I do have a few guesses...

The bridges were pretty basic, minimally heated and certainly not cooled in the summer. They were also not accessible to disabled (stairs only). Per http://www.empirestateroads.com/photos/gallery3.html (11th picture down) the upstate one was removed 2001. Is the Ramapo bridge regularly used at all by staff?

In addition to accessibility, there may also be concern about traffic - you had to cross the service plaza roads to get to the bridge.

Finally, there may be a franchise agreement in place - the McDonald's service plazas were definitely a different design than the other non McDonald's conversions. Per https://www.timestelegram.com/news/20191123/thruway-rest-stops-to-get-total-overhaul, eleven plazas are owned by McDs, and they will be among the last to be renovated under the (proposed) new plans.

[kalvado]

-Why is the Sloatsburg/Ramapo pedestrian bridge closed to civilians? Ramapo is practically a McDonalds with a gas station and it could use variety, which Sloatsburg provides. I can understand why Ramapo was built this way (you're approaching NYC sprawl), but I don't see the point in closing the bridge.

I was familiar with the one on the I-90 mainline in the 80s and early 90s. (Used to connect the westbound Iroquois to the eastbound Indian Castle, mp 210) After the renovations of the early 90s, all the plaza's were redone, though some had a cheaper rebuild than others - You describe Ramapo well. I guess I don't have an official answer, but I do have a few guesses...

The bridges were pretty basic, minimally heated and certainly not cooled in the summer. They were also not accessible to disabled (stairs only). Per http://www.empirestateroads.com/photos/gallery3.html (11th picture down) the upstate one was removed 2001. Is the Ramapo bridge regularly used at all by staff?

In addition to accessibility, there may also be concern about traffic - you had to cross the service plaza roads to get to the bridge.

Finally, there may be a franchise agreement in place - the McDonald's service plazas were definitely a different design than the other non McDonald's conversions. Per https://www.timestelegram.com/news/20191123/thruway-rest-stops-to-get-total-overhaul, eleven plazas are owned by McDs, and they will be among the last to be renovated under the (proposed) new plans.

If those bridges were anywhere similar to ones at Angola service area, they are indeed a bit uncomfortable... 

[Flyer78]

From my memory, the Angola bridges have tile floors (at a minimum)... so they may be an upgrade...

[webny99]

-A more historical question: why does the Thruway cross the Hudson?

To give Cuomo a bridge to rename for his father.

Nicely played. (I originally thought he was referring to the Berkshire Spur crossing, not the I-87/I-287 one.)

[Jim]

How do you drive on for 15+ more miles with a gash in your truck, dumping red powder along the way?

https://cbs6albany.com/news/local/man-arrested-accused-striking-overpass-leaving-trail-of-iron-oxide-on-thruway

https://www.timesunion.com/news/article/Troopers-charge-driver-they-say-let-iron-oxide-15530828.php

There was a good picture of the truck where it finally stopped in Amsterdam on Twitter, but I'm not able to track it down today.

I can confirm that the road was very red on my rides both ways yesterday and still somewhat red (with cleanup crews continuing work) on my way by this morning.  Going WB yesterday, I could see smaller patches of the iron oxide on the shoulder here and there out to Exit 27, and also on the Route 30 bridge over the Mohawk.

[empirestate]

Three weeks ago, I clinched the I-87 portion of the NYST north of exit 8 (I-287 East). Some questions, particularly between exits 15-23:

-Why is the Sloatsburg/Ramapo pedestrian bridge closed to civilians? Ramapo is practically a McDonalds with a gas station and it could use variety, which Sloatsburg provides. I can understand why Ramapo was built this way (you're approaching NYC sprawl), but I don't see the point in closing the bridge.

If I had to guess, I'd say it's to do with the expense of keeping the bridge up to current codes for public accessibility, including ADA requirements as well as general safety and maintenance.

-Why is exit 18 at NY 299 versus US 44/NY 55? US 44/NY 55 is closer to the Mid-Hudson Bridge.

For one thing, in fact it isn't. The shorter route is via NY 299 (especially if you consider the pre-upgrade routing along New Paltz Road, though I don't know the exact timing of when that occurred). For another, it's closer to New Paltz. The crossing of US 44 isn't near any population center.

-What's with the triple NY 17 exits? There's 15 (mostly for I-287), 15A (for NY 17..North?), then 16 (the Quickway). Why not do the obvious and reroute NY 17 onto the Thruway between exits 15 and 16? Tolled state routes are nothing new in New York (see: Hudson River bridges).

This I'm not sure about, since I don't see why it's obvious that NY 17 would be rerouted. That isn't usual elsewhere in the state, such as where NY 5 or NY 5S run closely parallel to the Thruway; what seems to suggest it would be inevitable here?

-A more historical question: why does the Thruway cross the Hudson? The US 9 corridor doesn't seem terribly mountainous versus having to build around the Catskills, which seem to get pretty close to the Hudson (ex. Bear Mountain State Park, where US 9W becomes pretty darn curvy). The Taconic corridor is too mountainous, so building along US 9 - the corridor between the Berkshires and the Catskills - would be the path of least resistance.

Well, US 9 is indeed less mountainous than the Catskills, but not appreciably less mountainous than where the Thruway actually runs. And US 9W at Bear Mountain is yet another location entirely; it looks like the confusion here is just from comparing areas that aren't comparable.

As for why the Thruway runs up the west side of the Hudson, it's probably simply because there are more population centers there. Newburgh and Kingston, and yes, access to the Catskills, probably provide enough justification. Also remember that I-87, as distinct from the Thruway, was indeed intended to run up the east side of the Hudson, until it wasn't.

[Mr. Matté]

Three weeks ago, I clinched the I-87 portion of the NYST north of exit 8 (I-287 East). Some questions, particularly between exits 15-23:

-Why is the Sloatsburg/Ramapo pedestrian bridge closed to civilians? Ramapo is practically a McDonalds with a gas station and it could use variety, which Sloatsburg provides. I can understand why Ramapo was built this way (you're approaching NYC sprawl), but I don't see the point in closing the bridge.

Per this RFP for the plazas, it was scheduled to be demo'd this year (COVID probably halted that): https://www.thruway.ny.gov/external/service-area-rfp/response-01-31-19.pdf

-A more historical question: why does the Thruway cross the Hudson? The US 9 corridor doesn't seem terribly mountainous versus having to build around the Catskills, which seem to get pretty close to the Hudson (ex. Bear Mountain State Park, where US 9W becomes pretty darn curvy). The Taconic corridor is too mountainous, so building along US 9 - the corridor between the Berkshires and the Catskills - would be the path of least resistance.

Well, US 9 is indeed less mountainous than the Catskills, but not appreciably less mountainous than where the Thruway actually runs. And US 9W at Bear Mountain is yet another location entirely; it looks like the confusion here is just from comparing areas that aren't comparable.

As for why the Thruway runs up the west side of the Hudson, it's probably simply because there are more population centers there. Newburgh and Kingston, and yes, access to the Catskills, probably provide enough justification. Also remember that I-87, as distinct from the Thruway, was indeed intended to run up the east side of the Hudson, until it wasn't.

If I-87 been routed off the Thruway across the Tappio Z. Cuomo Bridge (whether on a new alignment near US 9 or along I-684), when it reentered the Thruway presumably at Newburgh, was there a high-speed interchange already designed there, maybe similar to the current interchange, or was it always planned on being a Breezewood along NY 300?

[vdeane]

If I-87 been routed off the Thruway across the Tappio Z. Cuomo Bridge (whether on a new alignment near US 9 or along I-684), when it reentered the Thruway presumably at Newburgh, was there a high-speed interchange already designed there, maybe similar to the current interchange, or was it always planned on being a Breezewood along NY 300?

That's an interesting question.  I wonder if that's why it was a Breezewood for so long, when the other freeways had at least a trumpet or double trumpet built?

[webny99]

Different topic, but all the AET gantries in this area are all installed! Is there an official date for the switch to AET?

[vdeane]

All the gantries were installed system-wide about a week ago.  Still, a lot of them don't yet have the equipment installed.  After that's done, they'll be doing a 30 day test.  No word yet on an official live date.

[kalvado]

And something like a date for AET: "cash tolls end in November"
https://www.wxxinews.org/post/thruway-authority-cash-tolling-ends-november

[webny99]

And something like a date for AET: "cash tolls end in November"
https://www.wxxinews.org/post/thruway-authority-cash-tolling-ends-november

I call that progress. Thanks for sharing!

[Jim]

In recent days, jersey barriers are being put up to separate opposing traffic around the Exit 24 tolls, extending the current split points to be closer to the booths.  The one on the east side of the toll booths looks like it's just long enough that it doesn't block the tandem truck lot, and I'm guessing that gap in the barrier will remain after the toll booths are removed.  But it makes me wonder how it's going too work when traffic passing through that area doesn't have to slow down to pass through the toll booths.  As of now, trucks normally can't wait for opening in traffic to get to and from the WB/SB lanes.  They just pull out and traffic stops.  I don't see that working as well once the toll booths are removed.

Unrelated, I hope that the signage in that area will be improved so traffic approaching what will eventually be the former location of the toll booths so traffic that is not familiar with the configuration can have more time to get into the lanes they need to be in to proceed on either I-90 or I-87.

[deathtopumpkins]

When the MassPike went AET, most of the tandem lots, park-and-rides, maintenance facilities, etc. did not retain median cut-throughs. Some other method of access was provided for bi-directional access, e.g. a connection to the local street grid. Exit 6 did retain its median cut-through for the tandem lot though, complete with a new turn lane.

[kalvado]

When the MassPike went AET, most of the tandem lots, park-and-rides, maintenance facilities, etc. did not retain median cut-throughs. Some other method of access was provided for bi-directional access, e.g. a connection to the local street grid. Exit 6 did retain its median cut-through for the tandem lot though, complete with a new turn lane.

Thinking about exit 24, area I am most familiar with,  there is already some street access to (not from) that lot; but I don't see any option for a tandem to get onto mainline from that lot. Setting up a facility in the median after booth removal may work..
We all hope that spaghetti is going to see some construction in the foreseeable future, but I am not holding my breath given the situation. 

[Flyer78]

Go-live of AET is definitely closer, but still no exact date. Local news outlets have been running stories, mostly parroting the official press release:

http://www.thruway.ny.gov/news/pressrel/2020/10/2020-10-14-cashless-tolling.html

One of the linked pages from there is a history of toll collections, with some nice vintage pictures of toll booths, past tickets, etc.

https://www.thruway.ny.gov/oursystem/toll-collector-history.html

[Jim]

Looking this morning at the extra construction on the south/west side of the road just on the Thruway side of the tool booths, I am wondering if the exit from the tandem truck area is being reconfigured so it joins the NB offramp.  That's what looks like to me.  That would eliminate the right turn into the soon-to-be-faster traffic to get on I-90 East and I-87 North.  Doesn't help the left turners leaving the lot who are trying to enter the Thruway though.

[vdeane]

Looking this morning at the extra construction on the south/west side of the road just on the Thruway side of the tool booths, I am wondering if the exit from the tandem truck area is being reconfigured so it joins the NB offramp.  That's what looks like to me.  That would eliminate the right turn into the soon-to-be-faster traffic to get on I-90 East and I-87 North.  Doesn't help the left turners leaving the lot who are trying to enter the Thruway though.

Last I heard, tandem trailers leaving the lot are going to have to exit eastbound and turn around to get to the Thruway.

[empirestate]

Go-live of AET is definitely closer, but still no exact date. Local news outlets have been running stories, mostly parroting the official press release:

http://www.thruway.ny.gov/news/pressrel/2020/10/2020-10-14-cashless-tolling.html

One of the linked pages from there is a history of toll collections, with some nice vintage pictures of toll booths, past tickets, etc.

https://www.thruway.ny.gov/oursystem/toll-collector-history.html

It's not exact, but the date is right there in the history page: November 2020.

[cl94]

It's not exact, but the date is right there in the history page: November 2020.

There is an exact date, but it has not been publicized yet.

[TheDon102]

Will the thruway authority's capital plans ever become as ambitious as the NJTA

[storm2k]

Will the thruway authority's capital plans ever become as ambitious as the NJTA

the thruway authority oversees something like double or triple the lane mileage of the njta, so who's to say?

[cpzilliacus]

Will the thruway authority's capital plans ever become as ambitious as the NJTA

the thruway authority oversees something like double or triple the lane mileage of the njta, so who's to say?

How about 3 lanes each way for a total of 6 between Exit 16 (NY-17, Harriman) and Exit 23 (I-787) outside Albany?