New York State Thruway

[astralentity]

I thought this article that was posted to another thread was interesting.  It would certainly solve some problems if NYSTA had been dissolved and the Thruway given to NYSDOT.  There would likely be reference markers and normal county/town line signs, and the impediment to doing mile-based numbers for I-90 and I-87 based on their own mileage would be gone.  Maybe the direct ramps for I-87 at exit 24 would have been built, too, along with widening the ramp to I-90 east from I-490 at exit 45 (since the toll booths would have gone down before the state went into preservation mode, rather than after).

Well now that the booths are gone, I will be advocating for Exit 24 be reconfigured so that the stub end of the Northway is directly connected and get rid of that BS that wraps around Crossgates.

A lot of traffic uses those Crossgates ramps - enough that I can't imagine what traffic would be like if they were gone.  The Town of Guilderland certainly wouldn't be happy - in fact, they're trying to encourage non-Crossgates traffic to bypass US 20 with those ramps!

I wasn't talking about the ramps, I was talking about the section of the Thruway between Western Avenue and Rapp Road.

[astralentity]

I thought this article that was posted to another thread was interesting.  It would certainly solve some problems if NYSTA had been dissolved and the Thruway given to NYSDOT.  There would likely be reference markers and normal county/town line signs, and the impediment to doing mile-based numbers for I-90 and I-87 based on their own mileage would be gone.  Maybe the direct ramps for I-87 at exit 24 would have been built, too, along with widening the ramp to I-90 east from I-490 at exit 45 (since the toll booths would have gone down before the state went into preservation mode, rather than after).

Well now that the booths are gone, I will be advocating for Exit 24 be reconfigured so that the stub end of the Northway is directly connected and get rid of that BS that wraps around Crossgates.

A lot of traffic uses those Crossgates ramps - enough that I can't imagine what traffic would be like if they were gone.  The Town of Guilderland certainly wouldn't be happy - in fact, they're trying to encourage non-Crossgates traffic to bypass US 20 with those ramps!

The way I read that post is removal of U-ramps funneling I-87 Thruway traffic to and from tollbooths are in question. They do not go around crossgates, though. Reconfiguring I87 Thruway < = > Northway connection is a great idea (not without issues, of course).
Keeping Crossgates exit may be an issue since exits cannot serve just commercial centers. A smart lawyer would have to pen an explanation why those ramps serve town of Guilderland rather than just the mall.

Is the workaround with that because the section of the Northway between Western Avenue and I-90 without any specific Interstate designation?

[lstone19]

I thought this article that was posted to another thread was interesting.  It would certainly solve some problems if NYSTA had been dissolved and the Thruway given to NYSDOT.  There would likely be reference markers and normal county/town line signs, and the impediment to doing mile-based numbers for I-90 and I-87 based on their own mileage would be gone.  Maybe the direct ramps for I-87 at exit 24 would have been built, too, along with widening the ramp to I-90 east from I-490 at exit 45 (since the toll booths would have gone down before the state went into preservation mode, rather than after).

Well now that the booths are gone, I will be advocating for Exit 24 be reconfigured so that the stub end of the Northway is directly connected and get rid of that BS that wraps around Crossgates.

A lot of traffic uses those Crossgates ramps - enough that I can't imagine what traffic would be like if they were gone.  The Town of Guilderland certainly wouldn't be happy - in fact, they're trying to encourage non-Crossgates traffic to bypass US 20 with those ramps!

I wasn't talking about the ramps, I was talking about the section of the Thruway between Western Avenue and Rapp Road.

The Thruway predates Crossgates by many, many years. Crossgates was fitted around the Thruway, not vice versa.


iPhone

[kalvado]

I thought this article that was posted to another thread was interesting.  It would certainly solve some problems if NYSTA had been dissolved and the Thruway given to NYSDOT.  There would likely be reference markers and normal county/town line signs, and the impediment to doing mile-based numbers for I-90 and I-87 based on their own mileage would be gone.  Maybe the direct ramps for I-87 at exit 24 would have been built, too, along with widening the ramp to I-90 east from I-490 at exit 45 (since the toll booths would have gone down before the state went into preservation mode, rather than after).

Well now that the booths are gone, I will be advocating for Exit 24 be reconfigured so that the stub end of the Northway is directly connected and get rid of that BS that wraps around Crossgates.

A lot of traffic uses those Crossgates ramps - enough that I can't imagine what traffic would be like if they were gone.  The Town of Guilderland certainly wouldn't be happy - in fact, they're trying to encourage non-Crossgates traffic to bypass US 20 with those ramps!

I wasn't talking about the ramps, I was talking about the section of the Thruway between Western Avenue and Rapp Road.

Are you suggesting tweaking the designation or removing the highway?
Highway will stay, no questions asked. Shields... Who cares about it, really?

[lstone19]

I thought this article that was posted to another thread was interesting.  It would certainly solve some problems if NYSTA had been dissolved and the Thruway given to NYSDOT.  There would likely be reference markers and normal county/town line signs, and the impediment to doing mile-based numbers for I-90 and I-87 based on their own mileage would be gone.  Maybe the direct ramps for I-87 at exit 24 would have been built, too, along with widening the ramp to I-90 east from I-490 at exit 45 (since the toll booths would have gone down before the state went into preservation mode, rather than after).

Well now that the booths are gone, I will be advocating for Exit 24 be reconfigured so that the stub end of the Northway is directly connected and get rid of that BS that wraps around Crossgates.

A lot of traffic uses those Crossgates ramps - enough that I can't imagine what traffic would be like if they were gone.  The Town of Guilderland certainly wouldn't be happy - in fact, they're trying to encourage non-Crossgates traffic to bypass US 20 with those ramps!

I wasn't talking about the ramps, I was talking about the section of the Thruway between Western Avenue and Rapp Road.

Are you suggesting tweaking the designation or removing the highway?
Highway will stay, no questions asked. Shields... Who cares about it, really?

After posting my own reply above, it occurred to me that astralentity is objecting to the road being there, not the way it seemingly wraps around Crossgates. My opinion is even if the long-needed ramps from the Thruway to the Northway get built, the original Thruway mainline is still needed as long high-speed ramps for NB I-87 to WB I-90 and v.v. traffic which I believe is still pretty substantial. The last thing Northway interchange 1 / I-90 interchange 1 needs is more traffic. If anything, it needs more high-speed ramps. Traffic-flow should govern ramp configuration, not route numbers.

[astralentity]

I thought this article that was posted to another thread was interesting.  It would certainly solve some problems if NYSTA had been dissolved and the Thruway given to NYSDOT.  There would likely be reference markers and normal county/town line signs, and the impediment to doing mile-based numbers for I-90 and I-87 based on their own mileage would be gone.  Maybe the direct ramps for I-87 at exit 24 would have been built, too, along with widening the ramp to I-90 east from I-490 at exit 45 (since the toll booths would have gone down before the state went into preservation mode, rather than after).

Well now that the booths are gone, I will be advocating for Exit 24 be reconfigured so that the stub end of the Northway is directly connected and get rid of that BS that wraps around Crossgates.

A lot of traffic uses those Crossgates ramps - enough that I can't imagine what traffic would be like if they were gone.  The Town of Guilderland certainly wouldn't be happy - in fact, they're trying to encourage non-Crossgates traffic to bypass US 20 with those ramps!

I wasn't talking about the ramps, I was talking about the section of the Thruway between Western Avenue and Rapp Road.

Are you suggesting tweaking the designation or removing the highway?
Highway will stay, no questions asked. Shields... Who cares about it, really?

After posting my own reply above, it occurred to me that astralentity is objecting to the road being there, not the way it seemingly wraps around Crossgates. My opinion is even if the long-needed ramps from the Thruway to the Northway get built, the original Thruway mainline is still needed as long high-speed ramps for NB I-87 to WB I-90 and v.v. traffic which I believe is still pretty substantial. The last thing Northway interchange 1 / I-90 interchange 1 needs is more traffic. If anything, it needs more high-speed ramps. Traffic-flow should govern ramp configuration, not route numbers.

I see your point there.  I was looking at safety concerns with the way that interchange was redone, especially the northbound ramp to I-90 east.

[Jim]

Solution to I-87/I-90/US 20: massive multilane roundabout.

[Jim]

But seriously on this, if it could be worked out and paid for to reconfigure I-87 through traffic to use the Northway stub to tie into the Thruway just south of Western Ave, I wonder if it's better to retain the big looping on and off ramps currently used by traffic entering and exiting the Thruway to/from the south, or to concurrently reconfigure the current I-90 Exit 1N/S to handle that.

[vdeane]

I would think the easiest solution would be to add in the ramps with ramps to/from US 20 (full if possible, partial if not) and leave the existing roads alone.  Trying to remove that part of the Thruway would lead to nasty weaves and a LOT of traffic on a loop ramp (the other loop ramp would probably get a ton of traffic regardless).  It would also simplify the Crossgates/US 20 traffic issue by allowing those interchanges to be partial.  Removing the Thruway would allow for more ROW around US 20 at least, but at the cost of a massive rebuild of the whole area.

A lot of traffic uses those Crossgates ramps - enough that I can't imagine what traffic would be like if they were gone.  The Town of Guilderland certainly wouldn't be happy - in fact, they're trying to encourage non-Crossgates traffic to bypass US 20 with those ramps!

Didn't the town have something to do with paying for those ramps? I know that part of the ring road is technically a town road, but I could swear the ramps had some weirdness as well.

Yeah.  I believe the off ramp was done by Pyramid and the on ramp years later by the Town.

I thought this article that was posted to another thread was interesting.  It would certainly solve some problems if NYSTA had been dissolved and the Thruway given to NYSDOT.  There would likely be reference markers and normal county/town line signs, and the impediment to doing mile-based numbers for I-90 and I-87 based on their own mileage would be gone.  Maybe the direct ramps for I-87 at exit 24 would have been built, too, along with widening the ramp to I-90 east from I-490 at exit 45 (since the toll booths would have gone down before the state went into preservation mode, rather than after).

Well now that the booths are gone, I will be advocating for Exit 24 be reconfigured so that the stub end of the Northway is directly connected and get rid of that BS that wraps around Crossgates.

A lot of traffic uses those Crossgates ramps - enough that I can't imagine what traffic would be like if they were gone.  The Town of Guilderland certainly wouldn't be happy - in fact, they're trying to encourage non-Crossgates traffic to bypass US 20 with those ramps!

The way I read that post is removal of U-ramps funneling I-87 Thruway traffic to and from tollbooths are in question. They do not go around crossgates, though. Reconfiguring I87 Thruway < = > Northway connection is a great idea (not without issues, of course).
Keeping Crossgates exit may be an issue since exits cannot serve just commercial centers. A smart lawyer would have to pen an explanation why those ramps serve town of Guilderland rather than just the mall.

Is the workaround with that because the section of the Northway between Western Avenue and I-90 without any specific Interstate designation?

That's part of the situation here, but keep in mind that the prohibition is on directly taking ramps to malls - not ramps that happen to service commercial areas.  As noted, the majority of the road is the town's, not private (only the part around the back of the mall near Macy's is private; the rest is public).  The road also directly services more than just the mall - there are also hotels, and soon to arrive is also Costco and I believe apartments (with a roundabout at the ramps and a road diet on the ring road in the planned mitigation measures).  The goal of using this road to take traffic off of Western Avenue is also mentioned in at least one study of the area.  The Crossgates road has a far better claim to interstate access than the one for DestiNY USA.

[kalvado]

But seriously on this, if it could be worked out and paid for to reconfigure I-87 through traffic to use the Northway stub to tie into the Thruway just south of Western Ave, I wonder if it's better to retain the big looping on and off ramps currently used by traffic entering and exiting the Thruway to/from the south, or to concurrently reconfigure the current I-90 Exit 1N/S to handle that.

Biggest issue with straight connection would be amount of weaving. 2 miles of Northway between Western and Sand Creek have something like 10 ramps total, on and off. And long haul Thruway traffic will be dumped into that mess with little warning.

[Jim]

Seems like a good but possibly unattainable goal would be some sort of I-87 "Express" where Thruway to Northway traffic might not have any exits between the Thruway and the airport exit.

Sorry if this is wandering to fictional territory.

[shadyjay]

This is what I would do... add the ramps in red at the bottom of this image.  Keep everything else the same. 

exit24mod by Jay Hogan, on Flickr

This would help relieve some of the weaving at existing Thruway Exit 24 in all directions. 

[webny99]

^If you added those two ramps in red, you could also eliminate the U-shaped ramps for I-87 traffic just north of your screenshot.

Another option would be to keep the U-shaped ramps and make the new ramps EZ-Pass only, although that doesn't matter as much now with AET.

[cl94]

This is what I would do... add the ramps in red at the bottom of this image.  Keep everything else the same. 

[image snipped]

This would help relieve some of the weaving at existing Thruway Exit 24 in all directions.

This would not be ideal. The shortest path between the UAlbany area and the south would now involve a loop ramp and a few nasty weaves. Enough people make the affected movements for it to be problematic.

The only way to build a direct connection without creating worse issues at Exit 1 and along current NY 910F is by building a C-D system as suggested by Jim. Such an express lane system would need to go north of Exit 1, possibly north of Exit 2, in order to ensure that only I-87 through traffic uses the direct connection. This, of course, would be extremely expensive. Note that the area north of I-90 is protected land that can't be touched, so anything up there would need to fall inside the existing ROW. This is a large reason why nothing has been done with that area: there's little that can realistically be done here short of taking out the tandem lot for a couple of direct ramps or braiding/channelization at the former toll plaza.

[webny99]

This is what I would do... add the ramps in red at the bottom of this image.  Keep everything else the same. 

[image snipped]

This would help relieve some of the weaving at existing Thruway Exit 24 in all directions.

This would not be ideal. The shortest path between the UAlbany area and the south would now involve a loop ramp and a few nasty weaves. Enough people make the affected movements for it to be problematic.

What about leaving the signage on I-90 as-is and keeping the existing I-87 U-ramps for the I-90 EB to I-87 SB movement?

[kalvado]

This is what I would do... add the ramps in red at the bottom of this image.  Keep everything else the same. 

[image snipped]

This would help relieve some of the weaving at existing Thruway Exit 24 in all directions.

This would not be ideal. The shortest path between the UAlbany area and the south would now involve a loop ramp and a few nasty weaves. Enough people make the affected movements for it to be problematic.

The only way to build a direct connection without creating worse issues at Exit 1 and along current NY 910F is by building a C-D system as suggested by Jim. Such an express lane system would need to go north of Exit 1, possibly north of Exit 2, in order to ensure that only I-87 through traffic uses the direct connection. This, of course, would be extremely expensive. Note that the area north of I-90 is protected land that can't be touched, so anything up there would need to fall inside the existing ROW. This is a large reason why nothing has been done with that area: there's little that can realistically be done here short of taking out the tandem lot for a couple of direct ramps or braiding/channelization at the former toll plaza.

This gets into some fictional as well, but a thruway exit to 85 may be the answer to ualbany concerns. 85 is a pretty good road up to that point, so while not all-interstate, it would be an all-highway connection.

[Roadgeek Adam]

You aren't the only one with the NY 85 exit interest. I also agree with one.

[shadyjay]

The flaw with my "red ramps" is that, yes, there is no US 20 access.  And you would have to cross over to get to I-90.  The solution would be to retain the existing Exit 24, and use this new one for thru traffic on I-87 North only to points north of the Northway/I-90 interchange.  You could then sign the mainline Thruway as the exit (as much as I hate to say that, but it would give I-87 a sense of contiguous-ness as a single road that you don't get now (exit to stay on, then exit again). 

To keep this from getting too fictional, has NYSTA/NYSDOT stated anything about the real-life future of Exit 24? 

[vdeane]

Yeah, simply adding the two obvious ramps wouldn't work, especially if the current ramps were removed.  Not only would there be weaving issues with all the ramps around, keep in mind that the existing interchange at Western Ave would need to be demolished in order for those ramps to fit (that loop is NOT original to the interchange, which was to be a tight diamond) - and that is a a MAJOR connection.  I'm also curious if those two ramps would even fit, given the two adjacent apartment complexes.

A NY 85 interchange is an interesting idea.  It would fill a gap in the system.  I'm not sure what the interchange between NY 85 and the Southside Route would have looked like (or, for that matter, how I-87 would have originally connected to the Thruway, as the Southside Route was to feed directly into I-787 near exit 23).  It would be an interesting challenge too, given the proximity to the Krumkill Road interchange, unless it ended up being a diamond with roundabouts or something like that.

[cl94]

A NY 85 interchange would be useful regardless. Not like there isn't the ROW for it.

Yeah, simply adding the two obvious ramps wouldn't work, especially if the current ramps were removed.  Not only would there be weaving issues with all the ramps around, keep in mind that the existing interchange at Western Ave would need to be demolished in order for those ramps to fit (that loop is NOT original to the interchange, which was to be a tight diamond) - and that is a a MAJOR connection.  I'm also curious if those two ramps would even fit, given the two adjacent apartment complexes.

Yes, the loop ramp and its associated bridge was built around when the exit ramp to Crossgates went in. This ramp cuts diagonally across the ROW the stubs would have used and there is very, very little ROW to shoehorn in direct ramps to the stub.

[webny99]

A NY 85 interchange would be useful regardless. Not like there isn't the ROW for it.

And now with AET, it could be an interesting test case for a non-trumpet interchange.

[froggie]

keep in mind that the existing interchange at Western Ave would need to be demolished in order for those ramps to fit

I don't think that's the case.  Some years back (on some fictional thread), I figured out a way to retain the partial interchange at Western and still build that direct Northway-Thruway South connection.

[lstone19]

keep in mind that the existing interchange at Western Ave would need to be demolished in order for those ramps to fit

I don't think that's the case.  Some years back (on some fictional thread), I figured out a way to retain the partial interchange at Western and still build that direct Northway-Thruway South connection.

At one point about ten or so years ago, the Thruway had a proposal to build those ramps as EZ-Pass only on their website. Nothing happened and it disappeared from the website. I believe the proposal would have retained the current Western Ave. interchange.


iPad

[TonyTrafficLight]

What's the deal with the route 13 bridge replacement over the Thruway in Canastota? Dumped big piles of dirt in the spring, put up signals. No activity since.

Did you read in the local roadwork projects, lRt 13 was closed over the Thruway for a paving project, so I assume the old bridge is getting repaved?
Wonder what happened with the replacement.

[Jim]

Over the last several days, some temporary-looking signs have been added along the ramps approaching to the I-87/I-90 overlap/weave area where the toll plaza used to be at Exit 24, warning traffic to keep left/right for I-87/I-90/To US 20 (SB Northway stub).  They look to be mounted on wooden supports for now, but I assume they'll be more permanently mounted.  About time!  There's also some new signage for the tandem trailer entrance on the EB/NB side.