New York State Thruway

[webny99]

The new Indian Castle Service Area has opened: https://bigfrog104.com/take-a-look-the-first-ny-thruway-rest-area-is-completed-open/

- Was this one of the least visited service areas?
- There is very little indoor seating. Do they expect most people (including large crowds coming from buses) to eat outdoors? Or are they expecting that much traffic to be diverted to the lone drive-through for Starbucks? At least there is more outdoor seating which will be nice 6 months of the year.
- The hallway to the restrooms is only wide enough for one person and the restrooms are comically small. There are only four stalls. Competing for space in the hallway are entrances to the gender-neutral restrooms and the water fountain/bottling filling station.
- Parking is more plentiful.
- There are no showers at this location but others will include them.

I'm all on board with the new service areas, notably because they will include showers and updated amenities, but this seems to be a downscale of what was there.

The new service areas were allegedly sized based on traffic. Notably, Ramapo will be upsized when it is rebuilt, but several of the less-visited ones Upstate will be downsized. The old service areas were mostly one size and some of the locations were overbuilt relative to the traffic they received. I guess the thought is to maximize the area being used to reduce operating costs, but it removes some of the flexibility present in the old service areas in terms of the ability to handle an unexpected crush of people.

Interesting. Based on AADT volumes, I would definitely say "yes" to the question of whether Indian Castle is one of the least-visited service areas. It's got to be the least-visited on I-90 EB, and surely less-visited than anything on I-87's portion of the Thruway. Same for Iroquois (and to a lesser extent Schuyler) on I-90 WB.

The ones between Buffalo and Rochester (Pembroke and Scottsville EB; Ontario and Clarence WB) were always inundated and barely able to handle the influx of traffic before and after Bills games even in their current/previous configuration, so I sure hope they don't get downsized.

[vdeane]

^ Ontario, Clarence, and Pembroke are level 3, but Scottsville is only level 2 like Indian Castle.

[kalvado]

The new Indian Castle Service Area has opened: https://bigfrog104.com/take-a-look-the-first-ny-thruway-rest-area-is-completed-open/

- Was this one of the least visited service areas?
- There is very little indoor seating. Do they expect most people (including large crowds coming from buses) to eat outdoors? Or are they expecting that much traffic to be diverted to the lone drive-through for Starbucks? At least there is more outdoor seating which will be nice 6 months of the year.
- The hallway to the restrooms is only wide enough for one person and the restrooms are comically small. There are only four stalls. Competing for space in the hallway are entrances to the gender-neutral restrooms and the water fountain/bottling filling station.
- Parking is more plentiful.
- There are no showers at this location but others will include them.

I'm all on board with the new service areas, notably because they will include showers and updated amenities, but this seems to be a downscale of what was there.

The new service areas were allegedly sized based on traffic. Notably, Ramapo will be upsized when it is rebuilt, but several of the less-visited ones Upstate will be downsized. The old service areas were mostly one size and some of the locations were overbuilt relative to the traffic they received. I guess the thought is to maximize the area being used to reduce operating costs, but it removes some of the flexibility present in the old service areas in terms of the ability to handle an unexpected crush of people.

Interesting. Based on AADT volumes, I would definitely say "yes" to the question of whether Indian Castle is one of the least-visited service areas. It's got to be the least-visited on I-90 EB, and surely less-visited than anything on I-87's portion of the Thruway. Same for Iroquois (and to a lesser extent Schuyler) on I-90 WB.

The ones between Buffalo and Rochester (Pembroke and Scottsville EB; Ontario and Clarence WB) were always inundated and barely able to handle the influx of traffic before and after Bills games even in their current/previous configuration, so I sure hope they don't get downsized.

I wonder if AADT is a good indication here. Short haul traffic is building up AADT in urban areas, but has low rest area stop rates. If we consider at least 2 hour trips which are likely to stop at some point, Indian Castle is ideally situated towards the middle of the Syracuse-Albany stretch. On the other hand, they are not going to have anything bigger on Syracuse-Albany stretch anyway. Interestingly enough, westbound plazas may be a bit larger. NYC to Adirondack traffic? 

[Ted$8roadFan]

The new Indian Castle Service Area has opened: https://bigfrog104.com/take-a-look-the-first-ny-thruway-rest-area-is-completed-open/

- Was this one of the least visited service areas?
- There is very little indoor seating. Do they expect most people (including large crowds coming from buses) to eat outdoors? Or are they expecting that much traffic to be diverted to the lone drive-through for Starbucks? At least there is more outdoor seating which will be nice 6 months of the year.
- The hallway to the restrooms is only wide enough for one person and the restrooms are comically small. There are only four stalls. Competing for space in the hallway are entrances to the gender-neutral restrooms and the water fountain/bottling filling station.
- Parking is more plentiful.
- There are no showers at this location but others will include them.

I'm all on board with the new service areas, notably because they will include showers and updated amenities, but this seems to be a downscale of what was there.

The new service areas were allegedly sized based on traffic. Notably, Ramapo will be upsized when it is rebuilt, but several of the less-visited ones Upstate will be downsized. The old service areas were mostly one size and some of the locations were overbuilt relative to the traffic they received. I guess the thought is to maximize the area being used to reduce operating costs, but it removes some of the flexibility present in the old service areas in terms of the ability to handle an unexpected crush of people.

Interesting. Based on AADT volumes, I would definitely say "yes" to the question of whether Indian Castle is one of the least-visited service areas. It's got to be the least-visited on I-90 EB, and surely less-visited than anything on I-87's portion of the Thruway. Same for Iroquois (and to a lesser extent Schuyler) on I-90 WB.

The ones between Buffalo and Rochester (Pembroke and Scottsville EB; Ontario and Clarence WB) were always inundated and barely able to handle the influx of traffic before and after Bills games even in their current/previous configuration, so I sure hope they don't get downsized.

Don't downsize indeed. A few years ago on my way to Toronto, not only was there a long line of cars on the Thruway WB (summer Friday afternoon), the Clarence rest area was overwhelmed.

[thenetwork]

The new Indian Castle Service Area has opened: https://bigfrog104.com/take-a-look-the-first-ny-thruway-rest-area-is-completed-open/

- Was this one of the least visited service areas?
- There is very little indoor seating. Do they expect most people (including large crowds coming from buses) to eat outdoors? Or are they expecting that much traffic to be diverted to the lone drive-through for Starbucks? At least there is more outdoor seating which will be nice 6 months of the year.
- The hallway to the restrooms is only wide enough for one person and the restrooms are comically small. There are only four stalls. Competing for space in the hallway are entrances to the gender-neutral restrooms and the water fountain/bottling filling station.
- Parking is more plentiful.
- There are no showers at this location but others will include them.

I'm all on board with the new service areas, notably because they will include showers and updated amenities, but this seems to be a downscale of what was there.

I stopped here this evening when headed home from Ithaca, just to see the new setup.  I agree it's small, even smaller than I expected after reading this post a few days ago.  There can't be seating for more than 25-30 people inside.  One bus comes, and the building will be overwhelmed, especially the rest rooms, not that you'd be able to walk to them through the tiny area in front of the Popeye's and Starbucks.  I really hope many of the others will have a little more space to move around.  Notably missing is any of the New York history and tourism info that was prominent in most of the old buildings.

I saw that the WB service area just east of Syracuse is also open now, including what's now the closest Chick-fil-A to me that's not beyond airport security (until the ones announced for Clifton Park, Latham, and most recently North Greenbush actually happen).

When word gets out that some of these smaller service plazas are not "bus-friendly" anymore, they will start flocking to larger plazas or off-Thruway facilities. 

[MASTERNC]

Looks like another service area opened east of Syracuse.  The main restaurant is Chick-Fil-A, which is closed Sundays (not leaving much else food wise on that day) but the fact it might be on a more lightly traveled stretch probably offsets that.

The new Chittenango Service Area is now open to Thruway travelers on I-90 westbound between Exit 34 (Canastota) & Exit 34A (Syracuse I-481). The new location features Chick-fil-A, Starbucks, and Applegreen Market.

[lstone19]

Looks like another service area opened east of Syracuse.  The main restaurant is Chick-Fil-A, which is closed Sundays (not leaving much else food wise on that day) but the fact it might be on a more lightly traveled stretch probably offsets that.

No, it doesn't. Absolutely unacceptable to have the main (sounds like close to only) restaurant closed any day. This and other stuff makes it sound like the Thruway is becoming a third-world toll toad. If a restaurant wants to be in a toll road service plaza, they need to be open the standard hours and don't get to choose to close one day a week for their own reasons. Why would NYSTA even accept their bid?

[kalvado]

Looks like another service area opened east of Syracuse.  The main restaurant is Chick-Fil-A, which is closed Sundays (not leaving much else food wise on that day) but the fact it might be on a more lightly traveled stretch probably offsets that.

No, it doesn't. Absolutely unacceptable to have the main (sounds like close to only) restaurant closed any day. This and other stuff makes it sound like the Thruway is becoming a third-world toll toad. If a restaurant wants to be in a toll road service plaza, they need to be open the standard hours and don't get to choose to close one day a week for their own reasons. Why would NYSTA even accept their bid?

Two things:
1. This is not to serve meager upstaters, this is to extract cash from NYCers. Chittenango  is there to give them last city meal before turning north of Friday or Saturday. On the way back, Chittenango  is too close to Adirondack. Smaller service areas getting NYC-bound traffic on Sunday - Guilderland,  Ulster, Modena, have Panda and Burger King. New Baltimore has CFA - but also has Panera. 
2. With AET, it should be easier to patronize local businesses. Not that there would be a lot of choice on Sunday afternoon close to highway... Even less chance for bus-capable places.  I wonder if a new Pilot would show up at some point?

[Rothman]

Looks like another service area opened east of Syracuse.  The main restaurant is Chick-Fil-A, which is closed Sundays (not leaving much else food wise on that day) but the fact it might be on a more lightly traveled stretch probably offsets that.

No, it doesn't. Absolutely unacceptable to have the main (sounds like close to only) restaurant closed any day. This and other stuff makes it sound like the Thruway is becoming a third-world toll toad. If a restaurant wants to be in a toll road service plaza, they need to be open the standard hours and don't get to choose to close one day a week for their own reasons. Why would NYSTA even accept their bid?

Two things:
1. This is not to serve meager upstaters, this is to extract cash from NYCers. Chittenango  is there to give them last city meal before turning north of Friday or Saturday. On the way back, Chittenango  is too close to Adirondack. Smaller service areas getting NYC-bound traffic on Sunday - Guilderland,  Ulster, Modena, have Panda and Burger King. New Baltimore has CFA - but also has Panera. 
2. With AET, it should be easier to patronize local businesses. Not that there would be a lot of choice on Sunday afternoon close to highway... Even less chance for bus-capable places.  I wonder if a new Pilot would show up at some point?

See Fonda for the new Pilot.

[kalvado]

Looks like another service area opened east of Syracuse.  The main restaurant is Chick-Fil-A, which is closed Sundays (not leaving much else food wise on that day) but the fact it might be on a more lightly traveled stretch probably offsets that.

No, it doesn't. Absolutely unacceptable to have the main (sounds like close to only) restaurant closed any day. This and other stuff makes it sound like the Thruway is becoming a third-world toll toad. If a restaurant wants to be in a toll road service plaza, they need to be open the standard hours and don't get to choose to close one day a week for their own reasons. Why would NYSTA even accept their bid?

Two things:
1. This is not to serve meager upstaters, this is to extract cash from NYCers. Chittenango  is there to give them last city meal before turning north of Friday or Saturday. On the way back, Chittenango  is too close to Adirondack. Smaller service areas getting NYC-bound traffic on Sunday - Guilderland,  Ulster, Modena, have Panda and Burger King. New Baltimore has CFA - but also has Panera. 
2. With AET, it should be easier to patronize local businesses. Not that there would be a lot of choice on Sunday afternoon close to highway... Even less chance for bus-capable places.  I wonder if a new Pilot would show up at some point?

See Fonda for the new Pilot.

That was quick!

[froggie]

Wasn't there already a TA at the Fultonville exit?

[webny99]

^ Ontario, Clarence, and Pembroke are level 3, but Scottsville is only level 2 like Indian Castle.

Makes sense from the perspective that 46-47 is the least-traveled section between Buffalo and Syracuse, but it seems odd that Ontario and Scottsville would be different from each other, considering they're both on that same segment.

[kalvado]

^ Ontario, Clarence, and Pembroke are level 3, but Scottsville is only level 2 like Indian Castle.

Makes sense from the perspective that 46-47 is the least-traveled section between Buffalo and Syracuse, but it seems odd that Ontario and Scottsville would be different from each other, considering they're both on that same segment.

Maybe the beginning of a segment has less demand as people leaving the city are likely fed and relieved before trip?

[baugh17]

Wasn't there already a TA at the Fultonville exit?

Love's just opened recently at the Waterloo exit (Across from a Petro).

[webny99]

^ Ontario, Clarence, and Pembroke are level 3, but Scottsville is only level 2 like Indian Castle.

Makes sense from the perspective that 46-47 is the least-traveled section between Buffalo and Syracuse, but it seems odd that Ontario and Scottsville would be different from each other, considering they're both on that same segment.

Maybe the beginning of a segment has less demand as people leaving the city are likely fed and relieved before trip?

Except that both areas are near the end of the segment in their respective direction. And if that was the case, you'd think Ontario would be the smaller one, not Scottsville, due to traffic from Rochester having entered at I-390.

There's also another building on-site at the Scottsville Plaza, possibly a historic building of some sort (?) that could be impacting things. It's visible in old Street View, but the signage is unclear, and I haven't stopped there in so long that I don't remember what it is myself.

[seicer]

I would say that commercial truck stops are far and few between in the Northeast, and practically non-existant in many areas.

[vdeane]

^ Ontario, Clarence, and Pembroke are level 3, but Scottsville is only level 2 like Indian Castle.

Makes sense from the perspective that 46-47 is the least-traveled section between Buffalo and Syracuse, but it seems odd that Ontario and Scottsville would be different from each other, considering they're both on that same segment.

That actually happens a few times.  Iroquois/Indian Castle is like that, as are Mohawk/Pattersonville, Warners/DeWitt and Port Byron, and Clifton Springs/Seneca and Junius Ponds.

[webny99]

Wasn't there already a TA at the Fultonville exit?

Love's just opened recently at the Waterloo exit (Across from a Petro).

Indeed. I passed through there just a few weeks ago at around 2PM on a weekday and it was a hot mess, I can't imagine what it's like at peak travel times. There's a new stoplight at the Love's too, which makes 4 total on NY 414 between the casino and NY 318. It would have sounded crazy a decade ago, but NY 414 could really stand to be widened to 4 lanes there. It's starting to feel almost like a mini-urbanized area of its own.

I've even noticed that Google has started routing via NY 14/NY 318 between the Thruway and Auburn instead of NY 414, probably 1) to save on tolls for minimal extra time, and 2) avoid the gnarly left turn from 414 SB onto 318 EB, which appeared to be backed up several cycle lengths (the new Love's light seemed to be so poorly timed that NB traffic was backing up through the 318 intersection, so the aforementioned left turn was basically "green arrow/whenever NB traffic stops for you" only).

[webny99]

^ Ontario, Clarence, and Pembroke are level 3, but Scottsville is only level 2 like Indian Castle.

Makes sense from the perspective that 46-47 is the least-traveled section between Buffalo and Syracuse, but it seems odd that Ontario and Scottsville would be different from each other, considering they're both on that same segment.

That actually happens a few times.  Iroquois/Indian Castle is like that, as are Mohawk/Pattersonville, Warners/DeWitt and Port Byron, and Clifton Springs/Seneca and Junius Ponds.

In terms of one being smaller than the other, I was referring to them being between the same two exits (that would be the case for the first two pairs, but not the others).

[Jim]

Wasn't there already a TA at the Fultonville exit?

At the times I've been by since it opened, the new Fultonville Pilot has been much busier than I've ever seen the TA.

[vdeane]

I've even noticed that Google has started routing via NY 14/NY 318 between the Thruway and Auburn instead of NY 414, probably 1) to save on tolls for minimal extra time, and 2) avoid the gnarly left turn from 414 SB onto 318 EB, which appeared to be backed up several cycle lengths (the new Love's light seemed to be so poorly timed that NB traffic was backing up through the 318 intersection, so the aforementioned left turn was basically "green arrow/whenever NB traffic stops for you" only).

It's worth noting that Google no longer routes based on what route is the fastest, but which is the most fuel efficient.  It's not uncommon for me to change the route and have the travel time decrease these days, and at sometime, that routing is one of those times (forcing it to take NY 414 shaved off a minute when I tried it last night), though it might change during the day (rather than evening/night).

[storm2k]

I've even noticed that Google has started routing via NY 14/NY 318 between the Thruway and Auburn instead of NY 414, probably 1) to save on tolls for minimal extra time, and 2) avoid the gnarly left turn from 414 SB onto 318 EB, which appeared to be backed up several cycle lengths (the new Love's light seemed to be so poorly timed that NB traffic was backing up through the 318 intersection, so the aforementioned left turn was basically "green arrow/whenever NB traffic stops for you" only).

It's worth noting that Google no longer routes based on what route is the fastest, but which is the most fuel efficient.  It's not uncommon for me to change the route and have the travel time decrease these days, and at sometime, that routing is one of those times (forcing it to take NY 414 shaved off a minute when I tried it last night), though it might change during the day (rather than evening/night).

That setting can be toggled off in the options, but it is on by default.

[vdeane]

^ I don't see that option in the directions.  Is it an account option rather than a directions option?  Or is it a mobile one?

[froggie]

^ I don't see that option in the directions.  Is it an account option rather than a directions option?  Or is it a mobile one?

It's on the app, not on the website (at least in my experience).  Turned on/off via the Route Options menu.

[webny99]

I've even noticed that Google has started routing via NY 14/NY 318 between the Thruway and Auburn instead of NY 414, probably 1) to save on tolls for minimal extra time, and 2) avoid the gnarly left turn from 414 SB onto 318 EB, which appeared to be backed up several cycle lengths (the new Love's light seemed to be so poorly timed that NB traffic was backing up through the 318 intersection, so the aforementioned left turn was basically "green arrow/whenever NB traffic stops for you" only).

It's worth noting that Google no longer routes based on what route is the fastest, but which is the most fuel efficient.  It's not uncommon for me to change the route and have the travel time decrease these days, and at sometime, that routing is one of those times (forcing it to take NY 414 shaved off a minute when I tried it last night), though it might change during the day (rather than evening/night).

I've noticed it will sometimes say "Best route now due to traffic conditions", rather than "Fastest route..." explicitly. However, it's usually still within a minute or two when it does that.

I haven't noticed anything significantly longer time-wise being the default unless you choose to prefer fuel-efficient routes, although the most fuel-efficient is usually still an option even when it's not the default.