New York State Thruway

[roadman65]

I see the NYSTA didn’t waste time removing the toll barrier at Woodbury.  Considering that FTE in Florida has been cash less a while, they still have the plazas still remaining at least until the next major construction project to include its removal, especially on the Polk Parkway.

Some removed the booths but the canopy remains. Of course,  the booths can be lifted using a forklift and hauled away on a flatbed truck, but the canopy requires major construction. Plus the booths removal don’t need a construction permit either.

[vdeane]

Then there's exit 17, where the barriers remain because the canopy is used as a pedestrian bridge.  About all they did was install guiderail and remove one booth (two of the lanes are the old express E-ZPass lanes).  Even the old lane dividers remain.
https://goo.gl/maps/qAybPSSyxsMpzexWA

Maybe one reason the Thruway doesn't want to change the exit numbers is because then they'd have to change the number on the booths...

[roadman65]

https://goo.gl/maps/WkNQ1fonL1gcf9Ee6
Surprised to see a Freeway Entrance sign. I thought they would use Thruway Entrance as Freeway is not in a New Yorkers vocabulary.

[seicer]

An interesting development for the Thruway rest area reconstruction project:
now state (or toll) money are needed to complete the project. Not a lot, just mere quarter billion:
https://buffalonews.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/new-york-state-thruway-rest-stops-bailout-taxpayers/article_e33d4a6a-d48e-11ed-aeb9-8b215c14e25d.html

It still blows my mind that the larger facilities that were built from scratch in the early 1990s were ripped down at barely 30 years old. I can see the few old facilities from the 50s being replaced, but the ones from the 90s? Complete waste of money.

There is some backstage information, and if that is true - things are very ... Newyorkish.
https://twitter.com/scotvega18/status/1639614250204254208?s=21&t=y732DGKg3Dk5dv5QCjflOQ
https://twitter.com/scotvega18/status/1639614282882064385?s=21&t=fM5R_Rble2S1Y8VKrk8uDA

I'm not sure what the PTC did on the Turnpike for its renovations but nearly all of them were much smaller than the Thruway locations (either they were 1940s buildings or modeled after them).  In the case of the Thruway, it sounds like they weren't making them all uniform in size but keeping different size ones, so remodeling might have made some sense.

Thruway did have several different building designs and sizes. Not all of them were best fit, obviously, and they could use a facelift (show me the building which doesn't need one!).
Yet, many people thought those buildings were in reasonable shape. Now a professional hired to do evaluations says that buildings were in reasonable shape - but someone above was hell bent on total rebuild.  It could make some sense for a new contractor to start things from scratch, though...
Now, it sounds like new builds are not adequate for the purpose; were  deliberately designed in expensive way; and contractor runs out of money and wants state bailout, despite contractually responsible for the scenario.
I, for one, doubt that operational profit is the driving force for the new plaza operator. For one, previous operator terminated operations when contract expired  at the end of 2022. Kitchen equipment was removed at areas which were slated to close later, and cold wraps are available now. Not that McD serves great food,  but those McDs were still running full steam.
ANd now government bailout - and no services as an alternative, I assume.

Pure speculation, of course,  but looks like they made enough campaign donations to ensure they get the contract they wanted - but not (yet) enough to  secure bailout...

Say what you will about McDonalds, they are at least open all seven days a week. This rest stop project is unnecessary especially since some of them were not even that old.

The earliest Thruway segment opened in 1954, and by the time most were replaced (1990-94), they were approaching 40 years of age. Now they are being replaced after 30 years of use. I don't recall if it was just cheaper to rebuild versus a full rehabilitation.

For the West Virginia Turnpike, the "Glass House" buildings were from around the same era and were replaced when the Turnpike was widened in the late 1970s-1980s. Two were demolished this year for a full plaza rebuild. This includes a brand new (and larger) structure with more amenities, new gas pumps and storage tanks, and larger, redesigned parking areas. This differs a bit from the Thruway as the Turnpike's rebuilds seem to be more extensive.

[kalvado]

The earliest Thruway segment opened in 1954, and by the time most were replaced (1990-94), they were approaching 40 years of age. Now they are being replaced after 30 years of use. I don't recall if it was just cheaper to rebuild versus a full rehabilitation.

For the West Virginia Turnpike, the "Glass House" buildings were from around the same era and were replaced when the Turnpike was widened in the late 1970s-1980s. Two were demolished this year for a full plaza rebuild. This includes a brand new (and larger) structure with more amenities, new gas pumps and storage tanks, and larger, redesigned parking areas. This differs a bit from the Thruway as the Turnpike's rebuilds seem to be more extensive.

If you look at those tweets above (if they are still available), the guy who was doing the assessment basically says the scheme was strongly tilted towards building replacement regardless of the actual condition.

[lstone19]

Say what you will about McDonalds, they are at least open all seven days a week.

Completely agree. There should be contractual hours of operation seven days a week. Saying "we're closed on Sundays" should be disqualifying for any bidder.

[Ted$8roadFan]

Agree about Chick-Fil-A being closed on Sundays as less than ideal, but there are other available options.

[vdeane]

Agree about Chick-Fil-A being closed on Sundays as less than ideal, but there are other available options.

Not at Chittenango there aren't.  The only other "restaurant" there is Starbucks.  And even in the bigger ones, the line for CFA was nearly out the door at 2 PM Saturday.  I can't imagine the impact of adding that line to Burger King on the busiest travel day of the week.

[lstone19]

Meanwhile, still waiting to see that 25A to 24 trip from 15 days ago post.

For closure, it finally posted 24 days after we traveled.

[vdeane]

My Memorial Day travels through there took similarly long to post.  I wonder what's going on.

[Flyer78]

https://goo.gl/maps/WkNQ1fonL1gcf9Ee6
Surprised to see a Freeway Entrance sign. I thought they would use Thruway Entrance as Freeway is not in a New Yorkers vocabulary.

Those signs have become quite common, at least in region 3.

That said, I haven't seen them here for the Thruway interchanges. For some reason using Freeway signage on a toll road bothers me.

[Ted$8roadFan]

https://goo.gl/maps/WkNQ1fonL1gcf9Ee6
Surprised to see a Freeway Entrance sign. I thought they would use Thruway Entrance as Freeway is not in a New Yorkers vocabulary.

Those signs have become quite common, at least in region 3.

That said, I haven't seen them here for the Thruway interchanges. For some reason using Freeway signage on a toll road bothers me.

There's a Thruway sign next to the Freeway sign, so I'd imagine many drivers would understand that it's a toll road. But not everybody.

[SignBridge]

https://goo.gl/maps/WkNQ1fonL1gcf9Ee6
Surprised to see a Freeway Entrance sign. I thought they would use Thruway Entrance as Freeway is not in a New Yorkers vocabulary.

Those signs have become quite common, at least in region 3.

That said, I haven't seen them here for the Thruway interchanges. For some reason using Freeway signage on a toll road bothers me.

Interesting conflict there. For better or worse the MUTCD defines Freeway differently than most drivers who might assume it means a toll-free highway. The Manual definition is: a divided highway with full control of access. As compared to an expressway which they define as a divided highway with partial control of access.

[Rothman]

https://goo.gl/maps/WkNQ1fonL1gcf9Ee6
Surprised to see a Freeway Entrance sign. I thought they would use Thruway Entrance as Freeway is not in a New Yorkers vocabulary.

Those signs have become quite common, at least in region 3.

That said, I haven't seen them here for the Thruway interchanges. For some reason using Freeway signage on a toll road bothers me.

Interesting conflict there. For better or worse the MUTCD defines Freeway differently than most drivers who might assume it means a toll-free highway. The Manual definition is: a divided highway with full control of access. As compared to an expressway which they define as a divided highway with partial control of access.

Yeah, that definition has been kicking around and never seems to stick...see NY expressways...

[froggie]

https://goo.gl/maps/WkNQ1fonL1gcf9Ee6
Surprised to see a Freeway Entrance sign. I thought they would use Thruway Entrance as Freeway is not in a New Yorkers vocabulary.

Those signs have become quite common, at least in region 3.

That said, I haven't seen them here for the Thruway interchanges. For some reason using Freeway signage on a toll road bothers me.

Interesting conflict there. For better or worse the MUTCD defines Freeway differently than most drivers who might assume it means a toll-free highway. The Manual definition is: a divided highway with full control of access. As compared to an expressway which they define as a divided highway with partial control of access.

Yeah, that definition has been kicking around and never seems to stick...see NY expressways...

Shouldn't be a surprise to anyone....New York's dragged their feet on several aspects of the MUTCD for years...

[J N Winkler]

The "free" in freeway means free of frontage access and crossings on the level, not necessarily free of charge.  It is therefore not incorrect to use "Freeway Entrance" at entry points to toll roads that are also freeways, though I personally wouldn't cavil about "Tollway Entrance" being used instead.

[ixnay]

An interesting development for the Thruway rest area reconstruction project:
now state (or toll) money are needed to complete the project. Not a lot, just mere quarter billion:
https://buffalonews.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/new-york-state-thruway-rest-stops-bailout-taxpayers/article_e33d4a6a-d48e-11ed-aeb9-8b215c14e25d.html

It still blows my mind that the larger facilities that were built from scratch in the early 1990s were ripped down at barely 30 years old. I can see the few old facilities from the 50s being replaced, but the ones from the 90s? Complete waste of money.

Well, if the Atlanta Braves could tire of Turner Field after only 20 years (21 if you count the Ted's gig as the Olympic track venue)...

[lstone19]

https://goo.gl/maps/WkNQ1fonL1gcf9Ee6
Surprised to see a Freeway Entrance sign. I thought they would use Thruway Entrance as Freeway is not in a New Yorkers vocabulary.

Those signs have become quite common, at least in region 3.

That said, I haven't seen them here for the Thruway interchanges. For some reason using Freeway signage on a toll road bothers me.

Interesting conflict there. For better or worse the MUTCD defines Freeway differently than most drivers who might assume it means a toll-free highway. The Manual definition is: a divided highway with full control of access. As compared to an expressway which they define as a divided highway with partial control of access.

Yeah, that definition has been kicking around and never seems to stick...see NY expressways...

Yep. In the east, roads with "expressway" in their name are freeways by definition. In the west, "freeway" is used in road names. In the Bay Area, there are a few named "expressways" (e.g. Lawrence, Oregon) that meet the MUTCD definition of expressway. California is a stickler about letting you know where freeways begin and end (just drove down 101 from San Jose to Santa Barbara last night) which is a mix of freeway and non-freeway (much of what meets that definition of expressway) and common to have a "End Freeway" sign just before an intersection at grade followed by a "Begin Freeway" just after.

[SignBridge]

In the East, not all roads with Expressway in their name are freeways though most are.

In the Five-Towns area of Long Island's Nassau County there is a divided boulevard named Nassau Expressway, because originally it was supposed to be a freeway, but plans changed and it was built as a boulevard but retained the original name.

And in Queens, N.Y. the service roads on both sides of the Long Island Expwy (I-495) are named Horace Harding Expressway even though they are boulevard type roads with traffic lights. Don't know why they're not called Horace Harding Blvd. since that was the original road name before it was rebuilt as a freeway (with service roads) in the 1950's.

[mariethefoxy]

In the East, not all roads with Expressway in their name are freeways though most are.

In the Five-Towns area of Long Island's Nassau County there is a divided boulevard named Nassau Expressway, because originally it was supposed to be a freeway, but plans changed and it was built as a boulevard but retained the original name.

And in Queens, N.Y. the service roads on both sides of the Long Island Expwy (I-495) are named Horace Harding Expressway even though they are boulevard type roads with traffic lights. Don't know why they're not called Horace Harding Blvd. since that was the original road name before it was rebuilt as a freeway (with service roads) in the 1950's.

Service Roads in NYC tend to keep the name of the road they parallel, at some point or another 495 thru the city was called Horace Harding Expwy but they kept the name Long Island Expressway for continuity with Nassau and Suffolk most likely.

[jeffandnicole]

An interesting development for the Thruway rest area reconstruction project:
now state (or toll) money are needed to complete the project. Not a lot, just mere quarter billion:
https://buffalonews.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/new-york-state-thruway-rest-stops-bailout-taxpayers/article_e33d4a6a-d48e-11ed-aeb9-8b215c14e25d.html

It still blows my mind that the larger facilities that were built from scratch in the early 1990s were ripped down at barely 30 years old. I can see the few old facilities from the 50s being replaced, but the ones from the 90s? Complete waste of money.

Well, if the Atlanta Braves could tire of Turner Field after only 20 years (21 if you count the Ted's gig as the Olympic track venue)...

A lot of vagueness in that article.  Why the delay?  "Supply Chain Issues".  Which supplies?  The media didn't ask.

This one's even more shocking...

"Democratic Assemblyman William Magnarelli, who chairs the Assembly Transportation Committee, said he was approached by a partner involved in the project — he could not recall the name — about securing 'a couple hundred million' dollars in the budget."

It's one thing when the transportation department says they need hundreds of millions of dollars to fund their projects.  It's another when a single person asks for that money...for a project the State isn't even funding.  He doesn't remember the name?  He probably ate dinner with him the night before.

Unfortunately, that's the media today.  They don't ask any questions, for fear of retribution and being restricted from future events (even though media should have constitutional rights for free access to such events).  They just take what's given to them.  Someone asks for a $260 million bailout; no name, and no specific reasons why.  Good enough for a story that drags on with no answers.

[SignBridge]

In the East, not all roads with Expressway in their name are freeways though most are.

In the Five-Towns area of Long Island's Nassau County there is a divided boulevard named Nassau Expressway, because originally it was supposed to be a freeway, but plans changed and it was built as a boulevard but retained the original name.

And in Queens, N.Y. the service roads on both sides of the Long Island Expwy (I-495) are named Horace Harding Expressway even though they are boulevard type roads with traffic lights. Don't know why they're not called Horace Harding Blvd. since that was the original road name before it was rebuilt as a freeway (with service roads) in the 1950's.

Service Roads in NYC tend to keep the name of the road they parallel, at some point or another 495 thru the city was called Horace Harding Expwy but they kept the name Long Island Expressway for continuity with Nassau and Suffolk most likely.

You are correct. When Horace Harding Blvd. in Queens was rebuilt as a freeway in the mid 1950's it was originally called Horace harding Expwy. but the name was presumably changed for continuity.

[Rothman]

New Baltimore Travel Plaza was busy today.  Problem seemed to be that the restaurant spaces were too small.  There were enough staff, but it was like they needed more cook space.  Plenty of seating space available.

Crowded New Rest Area at New Baltimore Travel Plaza on Thruway

[NoGoodNamesAvailable]

New Baltimore Travel Plaza was busy today.  Problem seemed to be that the restaurant spaces were too small.  There were enough staff, but it was like they needed more cook space.  Plenty of seating space available.

Crowded New Rest Area at New Baltimore Travel Plaza on Thruway

And you caught in on the day when one of the restaurants isn't closed...

[Mr. Matté]

Is this the smallest toll possible, anywhere in the country? I have a NY E-ZPass and the length of this segment is under a mile. I don't fully get why they went with the transponder readers spanning the mainline in the cities which were previously part of the ticket system instead of just installing them over the shared ramp areas where the booths used to be, but there it is.