New York State Thruway

[webny99]

vdeane, are you working with the new "Drakewell" or however it's spelled/called?

I'm not familiar with it.  My bookmark is for the web viewer they came out with a few years ago; is that link out of date?

Nope.  This "Drakewell" software seems to be the new and upcoming way HDS will be analyzing count and other traffic data...but the bugs are still being worked out.

Ah, the TRADIS replacement.

In light of this, I feel out of place to be the one announcing NYSDOT's new TDV, but I just happened to be emailing NYSDOT about some traffic counts earlier this week and received this response, in part:

The data for 2022 and what is currently available of 2023 are available on our new, soft-launched Traffic Data Viewer. We are seeking public feedback.
...

This system is live and up-to-date. Feel free to use it and share it, but we are hoping to get feedback from folks like you and make a few more updates before we do our official release.

And here is the link: https://nysdottrafficdata.drakewell.com/publicmultinodemap.asp

It's the same system that Georgia (GDOT) and possibly other states are already using. I've been browsing around a bit, and have found that it's great for continuous counts (huge upgrade over the GIS TDV) but way overdone for short counts. Counts that occur once every few years do not need anything close to a full site dashboard and separate site data page with a 99% blank calendar.

From my reply to NYSDOT: "The new Traffic Data Viewer is well set up to handle large volumes of information and very well designed for continuous counts. There is great potential for NYSDOT to expand continuous counts to more locations, and reduce the burden of operating short counts, if feasible due to other factors."

That being said, I know very little about what goes in to the construction, operation, and maintenance of continuous count sites, but if this new platform is any indication, I would 100% support eliminating short counts on freeways and switching to continuous only. The framework is now there to handle it, and it's is already done in many other states, so it's definitely feasible, and may even reduce the costs of carrying out short counts in the long term.

[vdeane]

After all the blah-blah-blahing about how old the bridges and subbase is, the increases don't seem high enough to be able to fund much in the way of replacing those bridges and subbase.

The increase to the NY E-ZPass rate is modest.  Not mentioned on the recent social media posts but presumably not changed are that the increase to the bill by mail rate is large, with the out of state E-ZPass rate being eliminated with those travelers to be charged the bill by mail rate.

[Rothman]

vdeane, are you working with the new "Drakewell" or however it's spelled/called?

I'm not familiar with it.  My bookmark is for the web viewer they came out with a few years ago; is that link out of date?

Nope.  This "Drakewell" software seems to be the new and upcoming way HDS will be analyzing count and other traffic data...but the bugs are still being worked out.

Ah, the TRADIS replacement.

In light of this, I feel out of place to be the one announcing NYSDOT's new TDV, but I just happened to be emailing NYSDOT about some traffic counts earlier this week and received this response, in part:

The data for 2022 and what is currently available of 2023 are available on our new, soft-launched Traffic Data Viewer. We are seeking public feedback.
...

This system is live and up-to-date. Feel free to use it and share it, but we are hoping to get feedback from folks like you and make a few more updates before we do our official release.

And here is the link: https://nysdottrafficdata.drakewell.com/publicmultinodemap.asp

It's the same system that Georgia (GDOT) and possibly other states are already using. I've been browsing around a bit, and have found that it's great for continuous counts (huge upgrade over the GIS TDV) but way overdone for short counts. Counts that occur once every few years do not need anything close to a full site dashboard and separate site data page with a 99% blank calendar.

From my reply to NYSDOT: "The new Traffic Data Viewer is well set up to handle large volumes of information and very well designed for continuous counts. There is great potential for NYSDOT to expand continuous counts to more locations, and reduce the burden of operating short counts, if feasible due to other factors."

That being said, I know very little about what goes in to the construction, operation, and maintenance of continuous count sites, but if this new platform is any indication, I would 100% support eliminating short counts on freeways and switching to continuous only. The framework is now there to handle it, and it's is already done in many other states, so it's definitely feasible, and may even reduce the costs of carrying out short counts in the long term.

Heh.  New TDV wasn't what we were talking about.  And they'll be tinkering around with that for a while to come.

The installation of true, old-style continuous count stations isn't cost effective from NYSDOT's perspective, but the ability to quickly set up camera counts is something NYSDOT wants to do more of. 

Makes me wonder who exactly responded to your inquiry.  I've got a guess...

[kalvado]

After all the blah-blah-blahing about how old the bridges and subbase is, the increases don't seem high enough to be able to fund much in the way of replacing those bridges and subbase.

5% over 14 years isn't an increase, not even an inflation adjustment.
Daddy's bridge,  aka Tappan Zee bridge - and its associated debt - is the elephant in the room.

[webny99]

Heh.  New TDV wasn't what we were talking about.  And they'll be tinkering around with that for a while to come.

The installation of true, old-style continuous count stations isn't cost effective from NYSDOT's perspective, but the ability to quickly set up camera counts is something NYSDOT wants to do more of. 

Makes me wonder who exactly responded to your inquiry.  I've got a guess...

But it is related, no? It is called Drakewell...

Your guess is as good as mine as to who responded. It was signed with a generic signature, "NYSDOT Office of Technical Services Traffic Monitoring Section".

[Rothman]

Heh.  New TDV wasn't what we were talking about.  And they'll be tinkering around with that for a while to come.

The installation of true, old-style continuous count stations isn't cost effective from NYSDOT's perspective, but the ability to quickly set up camera counts is something NYSDOT wants to do more of. 

Makes me wonder who exactly responded to your inquiry.  I've got a guess...

But it is related, no? It is called Drakewell...

Your guess is as good as mine as to who responded. It was signed with a generic signature, "NYSDOT Office of Technical Services Traffic Monitoring Section".

Yep, related.  TDV is the outward viewer of the Drakewell-assembled data...for the time being.  Like we were saying, concerns are still being resolved regarding their data.

[webny99]

I do have concerns regarding the short count data, which I addressed in my reply. The data visible when hovering over the count location does not match the raw data. Not necessarily a big problem, but clarification is definitely needed if/when estimates are being used.

[Rothman]

I do have concerns regarding the short count data, which I addressed in my reply. The data visible when hovering over the count location does not match the raw data. Not necessarily a big problem, but clarification is definitely needed if/when estimates are being used.

You should bug them again.

[webny99]

I do have concerns regarding the short count data, which I addressed in my reply. The data visible when hovering over the count location does not match the raw data. Not necessarily a big problem, but clarification is definitely needed if/when estimates are being used.

You should bug them again.

Yup, already did. That's what I meant by "addressed in my reply". I gave some general feedback as well.

[Alps]

Not pictured in the NYSTA release is what rates will be applied to the Tappan Zee.


https://www.thruway.ny.gov/travelers/tolls/schedules/2024-2027-toll-schedules/gmmcb-toll-charts.pdf

[jmacswimmer]

^

NYSTA really made sure to use the phrasing "first system-wide toll adjustment for NY E-ZPass customers in 14 years" presumably because of the Tappan Zee - they already hiked rates there in 2021 & 2022 and now will do so again each year for the next 4 years. Like kalvado said:

Daddy's bridge,  aka Tappan Zee bridge - and its associated debt - is the elephant in the room.

[MASTERNC]

I did read the report that addressed public comments.  Despite multiple comments questioning the justification, did not explain the rationale behind the 60% hike on non-NY E-ZPass holders, only saying they can just get a NY transponder (without mentioning the fee charged for non-NY addresses that open an account online).  Talk about tone deaf and implying this as a revenue grab ("taxation without representation")

[vdeane]

^

NYSTA really made sure to use the phrasing "first system-wide toll adjustment for NY E-ZPass customers in 14 years" presumably because of the Tappan Zee - they already hiked rates there in 2021 & 2022 and now will do so again each year for the next 4 years. Like kalvado said:

Daddy's bridge,  aka Tappan Zee bridge - and its associated debt - is the elephant in the room.

FTFY.  Not just Tappan Zee, tolls on out of state E-ZPass and cash/bill by mail have been raised in the last few years as well.

[kalvado]

^

NYSTA really made sure to use the phrasing "first system-wide toll adjustment for NY E-ZPass customers in 14 years" presumably because of the Tappan Zee - they already hiked rates there in 2021 & 2022 and now will do so again each year for the next 4 years. Like kalvado said:

Daddy's bridge,  aka Tappan Zee bridge - and its associated debt - is the elephant in the room.

FTFY.  Not just Tappan Zee, tolls on out of state E-ZPass and cash/bill by mail have been raised in the last few years as well.

I am not talking about increases; I am talking about NYSTA financial state in general.

Simple breakdown of 2023 budget: operating expenses: $466M; capital program $413M (and more is needed!); Debt Service $356M; total revenue $889M;  planned borrowing in 2023 $320M.
Revenue covers operational and capital program, but they have to borrow almost full amount of debt service - and debt is mostly for the bridge.

In short: Thruway would be in a reasonable shape financially if not for the debt, and they are unable to pay off bridge debt with existing rates and that gap will need to be closed. 5% rate hike isn't doing much for that, 25-30% at least.   

[vdeane]

^

NYSTA really made sure to use the phrasing "first system-wide toll adjustment for NY E-ZPass customers in 14 years" presumably because of the Tappan Zee - they already hiked rates there in 2021 & 2022 and now will do so again each year for the next 4 years. Like kalvado said:

Daddy's bridge,  aka Tappan Zee bridge - and its associated debt - is the elephant in the room.

FTFY.  Not just Tappan Zee, tolls on out of state E-ZPass and cash/bill by mail have been raised in the last few years as well.

I am not talking about increases; I am talking about NYSTA financial state in general.

Simple breakdown of 2023 budget: operating expenses: $466M; capital program $413M (and more is needed!); Debt Service $356M; total revenue $889M;  planned borrowing in 2023 $320M.
Revenue covers operational and capital program, but they have to borrow almost full amount of debt service - and debt is mostly for the bridge.

In short: Thruway would be in a reasonable shape financially if not for the debt, and they are unable to pay off bridge debt with existing rates and that gap will need to be closed. 5% rate hike isn't doing much for that, 25-30% at least.   

I was responding to jmacswimmer's post, not your's.

[Jim]

From my ride in this morning: there is more activity at the Pattersonville SA than I've seen since it closed with some equipment and a lot of people around, and the building demolition at the Guilderland SA is in progress.  The front half was a pile of rubble, the back half being torn down as I drove by.

[seicer]

The new Pembroke Travel Plaza is pretty nice, with a Burger King, Dunkin Donuts, Popeye's, and a Panera Bread (under construction). The central area contains lots of comfortable seats and this location has a professional driver's area with desks, electricity and charging ports, 2 showers, and laundry machines. The showers do not contain hooks and do not come with any amenities, so bring a towel, washcloth, and toiletries.

The showers are advertised inside the building at Applegreen but not on any service area signs. It's a hidden gem - for $10/shower, it's cheaper than Pilot/Flying J at Pembroke which are now $17/shower and without a line. Pilot/Flying J had a 3-hour wait yesterday whereas the travel plaza had no wait. Ditto tonight.

Photos: https://maps.app.goo.gl/2YQsXyKd3SkqZ34z5 and https://maps.app.goo.gl/38HjiEe3HcC3wQdn6

[vdeane]

From my drive to/from the Peoria meet, I noticed that the Guilderland plaza was finally demolished, while Scottsville and Angola still stand.  On the other side of reconstruction, Schuyler looks like it's close to reopening.  They had the business logos on the building and everything.  It will be interesting to see what a "level 1" service area looks like in reality.

[jmacswimmer]

From my drive to/from the Peoria meet, I noticed that the Guilderland plaza was finally demolished, while Scottsville and Angola still stand.  On the other side of reconstruction, Schuyler looks like it's close to reopening.  They had the business logos on the building and everything.  It will be interesting to see what a "level 1" service area looks like in reality.

Looks like Schuyler quietly reopened yesterday - I only realized because the red service area message on NYSTA's homepage was updated from "13 service areas CLOSED" to 12, and upon further digging found the press release.

I was also curious to see what the level 1 looked like compared to the already-small level 2 - the picture in the press release makes it look generally the same as a level 2 but shorter in length (the difference presumably being the need to only squeeze in a coffee chain versus a coffee chain + chicken/burger).

https://www.thruway.ny.gov/news/pressrel/2023/10/2023-10-30-schuyler-opens.html

[cu2010]

Are there known issues with the tolling system right now? I took four trips a month ago (three to Rochester, one downstate) and most of the tolls have still not hit my EZPass account yet...

Hell, we just got a bill for a work vehicle for a trip to NYC in August and that is missing most of the tolls too!

[kalvado]

Are there known issues with the tolling system right now? I took four trips a month ago (three to Rochester, one downstate) and most of the tolls have still not hit my EZPass account yet...

Hell, we just got a bill for a work vehicle for a trip to NYC in August and that is missing most of the tolls too!

Looks like 2 weeks is the baseline, with things sometimes getting a bit slow. Those messenger pigeons really struggle with the weather right now....

[lstone19]

Are there known issues with the tolling system right now? I took four trips a month ago (three to Rochester, one downstate) and most of the tolls have still not hit my EZPass account yet...

Hell, we just got a bill for a work vehicle for a trip to NYC in August and that is missing most of the tolls too!

Looks like 2 weeks is the baseline, with things sometimes getting a bit slow. Those messenger pigeons really struggle with the weather right now....

24 days was my experience back in June. Meanwhile, Illinois tolls on my NYSTA EZ-Pass were posting in 12 to 24 hours.

[deathtopumpkins]

Most of my tolls from a round trip across the Thruway back in mid-September have never shown up. Starting to think there should be a legal maximum time limit for them to process tolls within...

Also in July I got double charged for the Tappan Zee Bridge, as both an E-ZPass toll and a video toll, with the exact same timestamp. That was fun to get resolved. I miss when tolls were relatively straightforward.

[vdeane]

Are there known issues with the tolling system right now? I took four trips a month ago (three to Rochester, one downstate) and most of the tolls have still not hit my EZPass account yet...

Hell, we just got a bill for a work vehicle for a trip to NYC in August and that is missing most of the tolls too!

Looks like 2 weeks is the baseline, with things sometimes getting a bit slow. Those messenger pigeons really struggle with the weather right now....

Most of mine process in less.  Usually.  I am also noticing the issue.  It seems like virtual ticket system tolls stopped processing around Labor Day and only restarted a couple weeks ago.  Still haven't seen most of them from no less than three Thruway trips.  Most of the fixed-price tolls were working normally, however (the exception being 24-25 and 25-25A).

Normally I find that the fixed price tolls (except the two exceptions above) process next day, the virtual ticket system tolls (with the exception of 25A-34A) a day or few later, and the exceptions mentioned a week or two after.

I put in an inquiry last night.  They called me today and left a voicemail that said to call back to a number that doesn't work (it's just a dial tone).  Sent another inquiry, no response yet.

Are there known issues with the tolling system right now? I took four trips a month ago (three to Rochester, one downstate) and most of the tolls have still not hit my EZPass account yet...

Hell, we just got a bill for a work vehicle for a trip to NYC in August and that is missing most of the tolls too!

Looks like 2 weeks is the baseline, with things sometimes getting a bit slow. Those messenger pigeons really struggle with the weather right now....

24 days was my experience back in June. Meanwhile, Illinois tolls on my NYSTA EZ-Pass were posting in 12 to 24 hours.

Yeah, it got long for a while for the 24-25A ones.  Then they fixed it, and then everything broke even worse.

[02 Park Ave]

My travel on the Thruway is generally limited to Exits 15 to and from 16.  The Harriman toll is usually posted the next day.

As my toll is not excessive I am undecided regarding getting a Thruway E-ZPass.  However, since both Slothburg and Ramapo will be closed for quite awhile it is a moot question as there is no way i could pick one up currently.