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Favorite Caltrans Screwups

Started by Occidental Tourist, March 07, 2022, 01:58:44 PM

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Occidental Tourist


My favorite Caltrans screwup is this set of directional and informational signs maintained just for the benefit of local residents exiting their neighborhood near the 5/91 interchange.


Sign assembly facing west on Buckingham Street at Magnolia Avenue.


Before the interchange was rebuilt in the late 90s, a freeway offramp for Magnolia and Orangethorpe Avenues from the 5 north dumped off onto a side street that accesses this neighborhood, so the sign assembly pictured was installed there at Magnolia Avenue facing east to let those motorists know how to get to various destinations once they exited the freeway.



Current 5 north exit at Magnolia with pre-1997 exit routing illustrated.


When Caltrans rebuilt the interchange, they moved the off-ramp further to the northwest and to the other side of Magnolia, so it now brought exiting traffic to the opposite side of the intersection from where exiting traffic used to encounter the original sign assembly. But upon completion of the interchange reconstruction, they nonetheless reinstalled the sign assembly in the same location, facing the same direction, but now essentially only benefitting people exiting the neighborhood onto Magnolia.


Facing east on current 5 north offramp with old sign assembly in background.  Typical District 12 sign kerning in foreground.


There is a directional sign assembly for the new offramp, but it doesn't have near as much information as the old one.  I don't know if Caltrans has replaced the sign in the old location in the past 25 years since the interchange was rebuilt, but it wouldn't surprise me if they had.  :-D

By the way, on the old sign assembly, I have no idea why it gave directions to the 5 freeway for motorists coming off an offramp from . . . the 5 freeway.


Max Rockatansky

Monterey County Route 18 at Monterey County Route G14:

https://flic.kr/p/2hmtbx4

I even filled out a help ticket with Caltrans for that one.  They kept insisting it was correct and I eventually gave up trying to convince them.


jakeroot

Quote from: Occidental Tourist on March 07, 2022, 01:58:44 PM
By the way, on the old sign assembly, I have no idea why it gave directions to the 5 freeway for motorists coming off an offramp from . . . the 5 freeway.

This was my first thought. Why would traffic exiting 5 northbound need directions to 5 northbound, much less 5 southbound? Over-height trucks? Normally not a condition warranting guide signage.

It honestly makes more sense now than it did when it was first installed.

Occidental Tourist

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 07, 2022, 02:18:34 PM
Monterey County Route 18 at Monterey County Route G14:

https://flic.kr/p/2hmtbx4
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 07, 2022, 02:18:34 PM
Monterey County Route 18 at Monterey County Route G14:

https://flic.kr/p/2hmtbx4

I even filled out a help ticket with Caltrans for that one.  They kept insisting it was correct and I eventually gave up trying to convince them.



I even filled out a help ticket with Caltrans for that one.  They kept insisting it was correct and I eventually gave up trying to convince them.



2/3 correct is pretty good for Caltrans.

SeriesE

The green sign (Caltrans property) is saying I-5 is San Diego Freeway, but it is still Santa Ana Freeway at this point.
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.6894259,-117.7689851,3a,90y,229.55h,61.89t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sMI9v4S2_NFY97W24AzSBSw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Here they can't even abbreviate Mountain correctly:
https://www.google.com/maps/@37.4253556,-121.9179703,3a,62.5y,218.67h,95.4t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sliwvnhPKkWvOXiNp48KODw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
(other signs abbreviated as Mtn so this sign is the odd one)

Lastly, signing for "Los Angeles" within the city of Los Angeles is pretty much a District 7-exclusive thing. All other places in California say Downtown [city] or say the next control city.

RZF


kurumi

In 2008, a sign in Moorpark gave you wrong directions for CA 23 north (that is, putting you on CA 118 east instead): https://flic.kr/p/5NJKtM

However, the sign has been fixed since then: https://goo.gl/maps/71vSgvV89wxv4rFG6
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Occidental Tourist

Quote from: RZF on March 07, 2022, 08:19:26 PM
US-101 South in Ventura showing signage as "Oxn Coast H" for Oxnard Blvd. At least they took out the CA-1 shield.

https://www.google.com/maps/@34.248712,-119.2037035,3a,75y,134.42h,98.93t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1shwGMazUEdvh9E5SC3Es7zg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

So many levels of greenout failure.  Pacific Coast Hwy with a 101 shield on the right side covered up by Oxnard Blvd with a 1 shield on the left side, with the edges of that shield then scraped off and the numeral further greened out when they rerouted 1 onto Rice Ave. 

mrsman

Quote from: jakeroot on March 07, 2022, 02:39:53 PM
Quote from: Occidental Tourist on March 07, 2022, 01:58:44 PM
By the way, on the old sign assembly, I have no idea why it gave directions to the 5 freeway for motorists coming off an offramp from . . . the 5 freeway.

This was my first thought. Why would traffic exiting 5 northbound need directions to 5 northbound, much less 5 southbound? Over-height trucks? Normally not a condition warranting guide signage.

It honestly makes more sense now than it did when it was first installed.

One good reason to keep all of that information on the sign would be to guide people coming back to the freeway.  Of course nobody would generally exit simply to get back on, but people could have a legitimate reason to get off to get food or gas and then would have no idea how to get back on their freeway because the ramps are weird in this location, given the proximity to the 5/91 interchange.  It can be even more confusing given the missing ramps - you need to use surface streets to make the connection from 5 NB to 91 EB, for instance.  Also given the area's heavily tourist concentration (being close to Knotts and Disney), then clear guide signs are even more important.

The signage here is completely correct, just not as useful with the change in ramp configuration.

Bickendan

Quote from: SeriesE on March 07, 2022, 05:05:34 PM
The green sign (Caltrans property) is saying I-5 is San Diego Freeway, but it is still Santa Ana Freeway at this point.
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.6894259,-117.7689851,3a,90y,229.55h,61.89t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sMI9v4S2_NFY97W24AzSBSw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

I could see the use of San Diego Frwy at Alto Pkwy, but north of CA 133? :lol:

Techknow

Posted this back in the "Road Sign UNO" thread but I love this font used at the I-5/CA 1 interchange


Occidental Tourist

Quote from: mrsman on March 08, 2022, 08:09:40 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on March 07, 2022, 02:39:53 PM
Quote from: Occidental Tourist on March 07, 2022, 01:58:44 PM
By the way, on the old sign assembly, I have no idea why it gave directions to the 5 freeway for motorists coming off an offramp from . . . the 5 freeway.

This was my first thought. Why would traffic exiting 5 northbound need directions to 5 northbound, much less 5 southbound? Over-height trucks? Normally not a condition warranting guide signage.

It honestly makes more sense now than it did when it was first installed.

One good reason to keep all of that information on the sign would be to guide people coming back to the freeway.  Of course nobody would generally exit simply to get back on, but people could have a legitimate reason to get off to get food or gas and then would have no idea how to get back on their freeway because the ramps are weird in this location, given the proximity to the 5/91 interchange.  It can be even more confusing given the missing ramps - you need to use surface streets to make the connection from 5 NB to 91 EB, for instance.  Also given the area's heavily tourist concentration (being close to Knotts and Disney), then clear guide signs are even more important.

The signage here is completely correct, just not as useful with the change in ramp configuration.

I have to disagree with you on a couple of points:

With the former ramp configuration, coming off the 5 northbound, getting to the 91 east would have required a right turn before you ever got to the intersection at Magnolia with the sign.  So other than overheight vehicles (and offhand I don't know if pre-construction Magnolia bridge over the 5 met interstate height requirements, but I do know it was high enough to clear the railroad tracks on the south side, so it had to be fairly high in its pre-97 form) there would be no other reason to indicate how to get back to the 5 freeway.

With the current configuration, no one coming back to the freeway is going to encounter that sign.  The neighborhood that sign faces has no businesses in it.  You don't get into that neighborhood intentionally or accidentally by staying on a major road or boulevard; you have to make a deliberate turn into a clearly residential neighborhood onto a smaller street in order to even "accidentally"  get into the neighborhood.  And once you're in that neighborhood, it's labyrinthine.  There's no straight shot through that neighborhood from either Brookhurst or Orangethorpe, the two closest major streets.  If you were an out-of-towner, and somehow got lost in that particular neighborhood, that sign isn't going to be the guidepost that gets you out and back onto the freeway.

Occidental Tourist

Quote from: Techknow on March 08, 2022, 11:10:14 PM
Posted this back in the "Road Sign UNO" thread but I love this font used at the I-5/CA 1 interchange



Series D combined with a 3/4 error.  A classic!

Henry

The mother of all screwups is the omission of an I-5 North marker on a CA 110 exit sign that caused Richard Ankrom to get lost, so he fixed it himself:

https://www.motorbiscuit.com/guerrilla-artist-fakes-downtown-la-freeway-sign-stays-up-for-years/

This year marks the 20th anniversary of the prank he played on Caltrans, who left the sign alone despite his criminal actions in the name of public service and ultimately replaced it with their own version.
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skluth

I don't know of any good Caltrans screwups. But kudos to the OP for the thread name with symbols for letters in such choice spots. Bravo!!!  :clap:

SeriesE

#15
Another one is the I-405 S advance exit sign for Normandie Avenue at Western Avenue (since removed due to construction) - also discussed in this forum before

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.8607234,-118.3142072,3a,75y,124.7h,90.48t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sXasrcxv8orTxtRyq8DEtnQ!2e0!5s20190401T000000!7i16384!8i8192

There was a down arrow in the old sign, then it was covered with a green out, and then a new sign brought back the down arrow (now pointed at the wrong lane) because they didn't update their sign specs and the old spec was used to make the new sign.

JustDrive

https://goo.gl/maps/AGn6rr51raJk8iKN8

405 North approaching the 710. "Left 5 Lanes,"  yet there are only four through lanes, and the next BGS only points to three.

kphoger

Quote from: JustDrive on March 10, 2022, 06:50:49 PM
https://goo.gl/maps/AGn6rr51raJk8iKN8

405 North approaching the 710. "Left 5 Lanes,"  yet there are only four through lanes, and the next BGS only points to three.

I count five.  Is the double white line throwing you off?
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
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Male pronouns, please.

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US 89

Quote from: kphoger on March 10, 2022, 08:58:24 PM
Quote from: JustDrive on March 10, 2022, 06:50:49 PM
https://goo.gl/maps/AGn6rr51raJk8iKN8

405 North approaching the 710. “Left 5 Lanes,” yet there are only four through lanes, and the next BGS only points to three.

I count five.  Is the double white line throwing you off?

It's probably the signs on the right - because those also threw me off for a good minute. The lane referenced on the "South 710 Long Beach" sign is in fact one of those five 405 through lanes, and it gets away with that because it doesn't have the "only" label that 710 north to Pasadena does.

This is why it's a good thing the current MUTCD does not allow this type of down arrow usage.

SeriesE

Quote from: kphoger on March 10, 2022, 08:58:24 PM
Quote from: JustDrive on March 10, 2022, 06:50:49 PM
https://goo.gl/maps/AGn6rr51raJk8iKN8

405 North approaching the 710. "Left 5 Lanes,"  yet there are only four through lanes, and the next BGS only points to three.

I count five.  Is the double white line throwing you off?

This is a weird one. On signs designed to newer standards (with down arrows), they ignore the HOV lane, but this one counts the HOV lane.

JustDrive

Quote from: kphoger on March 10, 2022, 08:58:24 PMI count five.  Is the double white line throwing you off?

The HOV lanes aren't included in the lane count, and the rightmost lane is exit only for 710 North, along with the incoming Pacific Ave on-ramp. Like I said, that sign says 5, yet less than a mile north, the BGS says three through lanes (again, not counting the HOV lane).

kphoger

Why aren't HOV lanes included?  That doesn't make much sense to me.  They're lanes.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

ran4sh

Legally an HOV lane is usually a separate roadway. Otherwise, laws such as keep right except to pass would prevent usage of the HOV lane as it's meant to be used.
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kphoger

Quote from: ran4sh on March 11, 2022, 03:24:10 PM
Legally an HOV lane is usually a separate roadway. Otherwise, laws such as keep right except to pass would prevent usage of the HOV lane as it's meant to be used.

But what about states/cities whose HOV lanes only have restrictions at certain times of day?
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

Max Rockatansky

#24
Quote from: kphoger on March 11, 2022, 03:36:27 PM
Quote from: ran4sh on March 11, 2022, 03:24:10 PM
Legally an HOV lane is usually a separate roadway. Otherwise, laws such as keep right except to pass would prevent usage of the HOV lane as it's meant to be used.

But what about states/cities whose HOV lanes only have restrictions at certain times of day?

Here is an example of how Caltrans typically signs a junction which involves HOV lanes:

https://flic.kr/p/TDxUWY

Generally the gantries for the HOV lanes are completely divorced from the general purpose lanes.  The issue above is that the sign doesn't separate general use from HOV.



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