Turn lanes in both directions at once

[webny99]

I'm curious how common it is for an undivided road to have turn lanes in both directions at once due to closely spaced left turns in opposite directions... not necessarily at an interchange, but just between any two signalized intersections.

This seems pretty rare around here, but I can think of two examples:
NY 33A/NY 386 between Wegmans Plaza and NY 386 North
NY 96 between NY 251 and Lane Rd

[jakeroot]

Obviously quite common at diamond interchanges, so I will ignore those.

One example that immediately comes to mind is South Tacoma Way between 100th and WA-512, in Lakewood (Google Maps):


South Tacoma Way Double Left Turns by Jacob Root, on Flickr

[webny99]

One example that immediately comes to mind is South Tacoma Way between 100th and WA-512, in Lakewood (Google Maps):

That's an interesting one, because of the double turn lanes in both directions but also the dividers down the center of the road. I wonder how many people have attempted a left turn out of one of the businesses and encountered an unexpected bump.

[jakeroot]

One example that immediately comes to mind is South Tacoma Way between 100th and WA-512, in Lakewood (Google Maps):

That's an interesting one, because of the double turn lanes in both directions but also the dividers down the center of the road. I wonder how many people have attempted a left turn out of one of the businesses and encountered an unexpected bump.

That's the other thing that's a bit annoying, because of the divider, lots of U-turns would, at least theoretically, be required, yet neither intersection permits them (there is a right turn overlap with each left turn). Honestly, the amount of random middle-of-the-road U-turns that happen around there is pretty hilarious, it's quite common.

[Hobart]

The only example I've seen this outside of interchanges was when my family went to Pensacola when I was in 7th grade.

US 98 Business, on Navy Boulevard, has two extremely long left turn lanes instead of a center lane setup. Why? I don't know.

https://www.google.com/maps/@30.4102334,-87.2642374,206m/data=!3m1!1e3

[Bitmapped]

US 422 in Warren, OH has left turn lanes in both directions: https://goo.gl/maps/zZZEuZoBFAYKgTBv7

Because of the sight line issues the offset turn lanes cause, the left turns are protected-only. Warren was looking at reconfiguring the turn lanes to allow converting things to protected-permitted operation.

[Bruce]

Another Washington example: 100th Street NE in Marysville. There's a left turn lane for the free turn onto Shoultes Road. As you can imagine, it backs up onto State Avenue often, so I was disappointed to see no redesign planned as part of the widening/bridge replacement in the area.

A similar situation on Maple Road in Lynnwood.

[US 89]

Here's one in South Jordan, UT... although this one is really weird because the directions are actually reversed, with a maybe questionable use of a yellow line to separate them:

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.5419933,-112.0119951,58m/data=!3m1!1e3

[jeffandnicole]

Market Street between US 130 North and US 130 South:  https://goo.gl/maps/bVPUDAUgQDWRFwVW9

Mall Drive between NJ 38 & a jughandle/entrance to the mall complex (1 NB vs 2 SB to boot):  https://goo.gl/maps/ixSvfLaMoRQ72VVR7

[webny99]

The only example I've seen this outside of interchanges was when my family went to Pensacola when I was in 7th grade.

US 98 Business, on Navy Boulevard, has two extremely long left turn lanes instead of a center lane setup. Why? I don't know.

https://www.google.com/maps/@30.4102334,-87.2642374,206m/data=!3m1!1e3

Wow, those are extremely long. I can't imagine either direction would need more than half that length.

[jakeroot]

Here's one in South Jordan, UT... although this one is really weird because the directions are actually reversed, with a maybe questionable use of a yellow line to separate them:

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.5419933,-112.0119951,58m/data=!3m1!1e3

Questionable indeed. That seems downright dangerous, most drivers are trained to stay right of yellow lines. Staying arrow straight through the intersection will lead you into the turn lane, but all you need is a driver to overthink it a bit to get someone heading the wrong way.

[webny99]

Here's one in South Jordan, UT... although this one is really weird because the directions are actually reversed, with a maybe questionable use of a yellow line to separate them:

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.5419933,-112.0119951,58m/data=!3m1!1e3

What the !?  I'm trying to think of what the advantage of this configuration is. At least it's divided between the wrong way turn lanes and regular lanes, and it maybe improves sightlines and shortens the length of the turns, but still seems unnecessarily complicated. It's not intuitive to have to exit left a whole intersection early. I could easily see people unfamiliar with the area missing the turn.

For the northeast to northwest movement, I would think a Jersey jughandle would make a lot more sense - there's already one built in!

[Scott5114]

Here's one in South Jordan, UT... although this one is really weird because the directions are actually reversed, with a maybe questionable use of a yellow line to separate them:

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.5419933,-112.0119951,58m/data=!3m1!1e3

Questionable indeed. That seems downright dangerous, most drivers are trained to stay right of yellow lines. Staying arrow straight through the intersection will lead you into the turn lane, but all you need is a driver to overthink it a bit to get someone heading the wrong way.

The problem is that technically a yellow line doesn't mean "stay right", it means "traffic flows the opposite direction on either side of this line". So, if anything, both sides of the lane should have yellow stripes.

[US 89]

Here's one in South Jordan, UT... although this one is really weird because the directions are actually reversed, with a maybe questionable use of a yellow line to separate them:

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.5419933,-112.0119951,58m/data=!3m1!1e3

Questionable indeed. That seems downright dangerous, most drivers are trained to stay right of yellow lines. Staying arrow straight through the intersection will lead you into the turn lane, but all you need is a driver to overthink it a bit to get someone heading the wrong way.

The problem is that technically a yellow line doesn't mean "stay right", it means "traffic flows the opposite direction on either side of this line". So, if anything, both sides of the lane should have yellow stripes.

While technically true, I bet the vast majority of drivers don't interpret it that way. If you follow that meaning of the yellow line to the letter, shouldn't that also mean the insides of all DDI crossovers would need yellow lines? Good luck finding that in real life.

[webny99]

Aren't most DDI's divided, though? To me, a single yellow line says this is the left edge of the road or carriageway, which is different from a double yellow line.

[jakeroot]

The problem is that technically a yellow line doesn't mean "stay right", it means "traffic flows the opposite direction on either side of this line". So, if anything, both sides of the lane should have yellow stripes.

But by virtue of being a left hand drive country, yellow also means, in 99.99999% of cases, stay right of the line.

I'm guessing if you drew a yellow line on a piece of paper, and said which side of it should you drive on, pretty much everybody's going to say "the right".

[Scott5114]

Right. But because of that distinction, the MUTCD has no way to communicate "drive to the left, and only the left of this line". There's just white (same direction) and yellow (opposite direction). "Must keep left of this line" is a rare enough situation that a special pavement marking for it would not be easily recognized by most people since they wouldn't see it very often.

[webny99]

I think dotted white lines through the intersection (and maybe yellow too), as is frequently seen for left turns including at this very intersection, would really help here.

[jeffandnicole]

Maybe i missed something, but who said there was a problem?

Unusual? Yes. Accidents and confusions? Let's see the data.

[hotdogPi]

I think a third yellow line in the center will help. That will allow drivers to see it as two two-way roads side by side in the form of ↓↑↓↑.

[HighwayStar]

How about bright green as a "keep left of this line" color? I can't think of that as being used for anything right now.

[US 89]

How about bright green as a "keep left of this line" color? I can't think of that as being used for anything right now.

That's a common color for bike lanes.

[HighwayStar]

How about bright green as a "keep left of this line" color? I can't think of that as being used for anything right now.

That's a common color for bike lanes.

Well it could still serve that purpose as a "keep left" line so bikes have room. I'd rather use it for that than bike lanes.

[jakeroot]

Perhaps the solution is just not to allow traffic travelling the "wrong way" to be separated by anything other than a physical barrier.

I.e., if traffic is coming at you from your right, ideally there should be more than just paint between you. Anywhere but parking lots, at least.

[Revive 755]

Going off of the more up to date imagery in Google Earth, Huntington Drive kind of has this at the Rolls Drive intersection in Algonquin, IL.  The taper for the WB dual left to SB Randall Road starts about 165 feet east of Rolls Road and is about up to a full lane width at Rolls Road.  The EB left turn lane occurs next to the WB taper.  Location in Google Maps prior to completion.

A little to the south there is a WB left next to an EB dual left on Harnish Drive west of Randall Road.

EDIT::  There is another WB left next to an EB dual left in the area on Polaris Drive.  Google Earth has the post-construction imagery.