Cities/towns that's lost their charm

[HighwayStar]

I'm still trying to understand what is so appealing about Texas east of San Antonio.  At least the western part of Texas tends to live up to its supposed reputation as being rural, the big cities are very gentrified at this point.  People my age seem to love Austin, but to me it is just the Texas version of San Francisco.

Austin is definitely nasty, but Dallas and Houston are so large they offer a wide mix like any city, but with a distinctive Texas flair.

[Max Rockatansky]

I'm still trying to understand what is so appealing about Texas east of San Antonio.  At least the western part of Texas tends to live up to its supposed reputation as being rural, the big cities are very gentrified at this point.  People my age seem to love Austin, but to me it is just the Texas version of San Francisco.

Austin is definitely nasty, but Dallas and Houston are so large they offer a wide mix like any city, but with a distinctive Texas flair.

They remind me of city life in Florida and how the urban landscape pretty much has enveloped everything worthwhile in the immediate vicinity.  If I didn't like that in Florida, I don't see how those cities in eastern Texas would be for me either. 

And "Texas flair"  is pretty lacking in charm I've found.  False bravado and a copious amount of blow hard attitude is par for the course with Texas life.  I'd argue that New Mexico does a much better job at what many perceive Texas to be in reality. 

[HighwayStar]

I'm still trying to understand what is so appealing about Texas east of San Antonio.  At least the western part of Texas tends to live up to its supposed reputation as being rural, the big cities are very gentrified at this point.  People my age seem to love Austin, but to me it is just the Texas version of San Francisco.

Austin is definitely nasty, but Dallas and Houston are so large they offer a wide mix like any city, but with a distinctive Texas flair.

They remind me of city life in Florida and how the urban landscape pretty much has enveloped everything worthwhile in the immediate vicinity.  If I didn't like that in Florida, I don't see how those cities in eastern Texas would be for me either. 

And "Texas flair"  is pretty lacking in charm I've found.  False bravado and a copious amount of blow hard attitude is par for the course with Texas life.  I'd argue that New Mexico does a much better job at what many perceive Texas to be in reality.

Depends a great deal on what you are looking for. If you want to live in a proper state that actually acts as a state and not an arbitrary division of property Texas is definitely it. I have never once found New Mexico to be what I perceived Texas to be, and what I perceive Texas to be is pretty much what it is.

[Max Rockatansky]

I'm still trying to understand what is so appealing about Texas east of San Antonio.  At least the western part of Texas tends to live up to its supposed reputation as being rural, the big cities are very gentrified at this point.  People my age seem to love Austin, but to me it is just the Texas version of San Francisco.

Austin is definitely nasty, but Dallas and Houston are so large they offer a wide mix like any city, but with a distinctive Texas flair.

They remind me of city life in Florida and how the urban landscape pretty much has enveloped everything worthwhile in the immediate vicinity.  If I didn't like that in Florida, I don't see how those cities in eastern Texas would be for me either. 

And "Texas flair"  is pretty lacking in charm I've found.  False bravado and a copious amount of blow hard attitude is par for the course with Texas life.  I'd argue that New Mexico does a much better job at what many perceive Texas to be in reality.

Depends a great deal on what you are looking for. If you want to live in a proper state that actually acts as a state and not an arbitrary division of property Texas is definitely it. I have never once found New Mexico to be what I perceived Texas to be, and what I perceive Texas to be is pretty much what it is.

New Mexico is full of rural spaces, blue collar jobs and agriculture.  Those are all probably things most outsiders associate as being part of the Texas experience.  For the most part that is true in western Texas, but not really all that much in the urban areas that are the cats meow right not in the east. 

For context, I've had a lot of exposure to life in Texas and New Mexico to draw a personal assessment from.  I had New Mexico and the western half of Texas in my work area for three years.  I definitely enjoyed New Mexico and El Paso more than I did or anything east of the oil regions of New Mexico/western Texas.  The bulk of my work week overnight stays were eventually purposefully centered Las Cruces and Ruidoso more often than not as time went on.  Usually I spent a solid 50 plus nights a year in the region, I even was offered a relocation package to Odessa/Midland. 

[Scott5114]

And "Texas flair"  is pretty lacking in charm I've found.  False bravado and a copious amount of blow hard attitude is par for the course with Texas life.  I'd argue that New Mexico does a much better job at what many perceive Texas to be in reality. 

You summed up exactly what grates on me whenever I visit Texas. I can handle it in small doses but after a long weekend I would swim across the Red River to get away from it.

[Max Rockatansky]

And "Texas flair"  is pretty lacking in charm I've found.  False bravado and a copious amount of blow hard attitude is par for the course with Texas life.  I'd argue that New Mexico does a much better job at what many perceive Texas to be in reality. 

You summed up exactly what grates on me whenever I visit Texas. I can handle it in small doses but after a long weekend I would swim across the Red River to get away from it.

The best thing about El Paso is that the Texas "flair"  isn't really a thing there.  The culture of the city has way more in common with New Mexico and Chihuahua than it does with the rest of Texas.  I'm not denying there are problems with New Mexico and places like El Paso, they are just nowhere as grating as the so called traditional Texas flair is. 

[HighwayStar]

I'm still trying to understand what is so appealing about Texas east of San Antonio.  At least the western part of Texas tends to live up to its supposed reputation as being rural, the big cities are very gentrified at this point.  People my age seem to love Austin, but to me it is just the Texas version of San Francisco.

Austin is definitely nasty, but Dallas and Houston are so large they offer a wide mix like any city, but with a distinctive Texas flair.

They remind me of city life in Florida and how the urban landscape pretty much has enveloped everything worthwhile in the immediate vicinity.  If I didn't like that in Florida, I don't see how those cities in eastern Texas would be for me either. 

And "Texas flair"  is pretty lacking in charm I've found.  False bravado and a copious amount of blow hard attitude is par for the course with Texas life.  I'd argue that New Mexico does a much better job at what many perceive Texas to be in reality.

Depends a great deal on what you are looking for. If you want to live in a proper state that actually acts as a state and not an arbitrary division of property Texas is definitely it. I have never once found New Mexico to be what I perceived Texas to be, and what I perceive Texas to be is pretty much what it is.

New Mexico is full of rural spaces, blue collar jobs and agriculture.  Those are all probably things most outsiders associate as being part of the Texas experience.  For the most part that is true in western Texas, but not really all that much in the urban areas that are the cats meow right not in the east. 

I had New Mexico and the western half of Texas in my work area for three years.  I definitely enjoyed New Mexico and El Paso more than I did or anything east of the oil regions of New Mexico/western Texas.  The bulk of my work week overnight stays were purposefully centered Las Cruces and Ruidoso more often than not as time went on.  Usually I spent a solid 50 plus nights a year in the region, I even was offered a relocation package to Odessa/Midland.

There is plenty of open space in Texas, but that is not the sole thing I associate with the state. I also think of ZZ Top, Oilmen driving big Cadillac's with long horn hood ornaments, big oil fields, and big oil cities. I think of King of the Hill type suburbs, ie. the real life Arlen. Its a far broader set of impressions than you see in New Mexico.

[Max Rockatansky]

I'm still trying to understand what is so appealing about Texas east of San Antonio.  At least the western part of Texas tends to live up to its supposed reputation as being rural, the big cities are very gentrified at this point.  People my age seem to love Austin, but to me it is just the Texas version of San Francisco.

Austin is definitely nasty, but Dallas and Houston are so large they offer a wide mix like any city, but with a distinctive Texas flair.

They remind me of city life in Florida and how the urban landscape pretty much has enveloped everything worthwhile in the immediate vicinity.  If I didn't like that in Florida, I don't see how those cities in eastern Texas would be for me either. 

And "Texas flair"  is pretty lacking in charm I've found.  False bravado and a copious amount of blow hard attitude is par for the course with Texas life.  I'd argue that New Mexico does a much better job at what many perceive Texas to be in reality.

Depends a great deal on what you are looking for. If you want to live in a proper state that actually acts as a state and not an arbitrary division of property Texas is definitely it. I have never once found New Mexico to be what I perceived Texas to be, and what I perceive Texas to be is pretty much what it is.

New Mexico is full of rural spaces, blue collar jobs and agriculture.  Those are all probably things most outsiders associate as being part of the Texas experience.  For the most part that is true in western Texas, but not really all that much in the urban areas that are the cats meow right not in the east. 

I had New Mexico and the western half of Texas in my work area for three years.  I definitely enjoyed New Mexico and El Paso more than I did or anything east of the oil regions of New Mexico/western Texas.  The bulk of my work week overnight stays were purposefully centered Las Cruces and Ruidoso more often than not as time went on.  Usually I spent a solid 50 plus nights a year in the region, I even was offered a relocation package to Odessa/Midland.

There is plenty of open space in Texas, but that is not the sole thing I associate with the state. I also think of ZZ Top, Oilmen driving big Cadillac's with long horn hood ornaments, big oil fields, and big oil cities. I think of King of the Hill type suburbs, ie. the real life Arlen. Its a far broader set of impressions than you see in New Mexico.

I never said that I didn't consider seriously a move to western Texas.  I was set to take the transfer offer I described above until my corporate office yanked the promised pay bump and cut a lot of my proposed relocation bonus.  The western part of Texas had a lot more attributes I was looking for than the eastern half of the state.  Relocating to western Texas would have had me working in a lot areas I liked in New Mexico on travel almost every week.

I ended up leaving for a DOD job in Key West less than a year later after I declined the western Texas transfer .  Within a year of that my office was relocated to Orlando and I kept Key West also.  My thoughts on Orlando can be found on page 1 in this thread.

[J N Winkler]

When it's -5°F and windy, by the time I've put on enough layers to stop the bitter cold from biting through me, I can no longer do anything.  My hands are worthless, with bulky gloves and liners.  I can barely put anything over my shoulder, because of all the extra bulk.  And, even then, I generally don't want to be doing anything anyway, because there's always some sliver of my face that's still exposed to the frigid air and ends up hurting like a headache.

On the other hand, when it's 105°F and sunny, I can strip down to a pair of shorts and a tank-top, and I'm generally just fine like that.  If I get too hot, the worst that happens is that my throat gets dry (drink some water) and I sweat (so what?).

Given a choice, I think I would still prefer -5° F, so long as I could stay in the lee of the wind.  A heavy parka (rather than relying solely on light layers) increases the effectiveness of gloves, face coverings, etc. by holding in core warmth.  In the extreme cold spells we've had the past couple of winters, I've been happy with parka (worn hood up), earmuffs, Peruvian shepherd's hat, scarf (wound high enough to cover nose), and gloves, though if I were dealing with Canadian or Alaskan winter, I suspect I'd be wearing a ski mask and goggles in addition.

On the other hand, there is simply no way to dress--even if you take everything off--that will guarantee survival in a wet-bulb heat wave, and that can happen at temperatures lower than 105° F.

[HighwayStar]

When it's -5°F and windy, by the time I've put on enough layers to stop the bitter cold from biting through me, I can no longer do anything.  My hands are worthless, with bulky gloves and liners.  I can barely put anything over my shoulder, because of all the extra bulk.  And, even then, I generally don't want to be doing anything anyway, because there's always some sliver of my face that's still exposed to the frigid air and ends up hurting like a headache.

On the other hand, when it's 105°F and sunny, I can strip down to a pair of shorts and a tank-top, and I'm generally just fine like that.  If I get too hot, the worst that happens is that my throat gets dry (drink some water) and I sweat (so what?).

Given a choice, I think I would still prefer -5° F, so long as I could stay in the lee of the wind.  A heavy parka (rather than relying solely on light layers) increases the effectiveness of gloves, face coverings, etc. by holding in core warmth.  In the extreme cold spells we've had the past couple of winters, I've been happy with parka (worn hood up), earmuffs, Peruvian shepherd's hat, scarf (wound high enough to cover nose), and gloves, though if I were dealing with Canadian or Alaskan winter, I suspect I'd be wearing a ski mask and goggles in addition.

On the other hand, there is simply no way to dress--even if you take everything off--that will guarantee survival in a wet-bulb heat wave, and that can happen at temperatures lower than 105° F.

I find the only real deal killer about extreme cold is the difficulty in finding warm dress footwear for it. Winter boots are fine until you have to go someplace in a suit, then it seems you are stuck freezing your feet in dress shoes and thin socks.

Also clothing aside, to heat a space is very low tech and something that can be done with only the most basic gear (a wood stove + some wood) but air conditioning is comparatively complex and basically (though not technically) requires having electric power at hand. In northern climates to backup your heat with an alternate source is fairly easy, but to backup air conditioning is fairly expensive and difficult.

[hotdogPi]

kphoger, you said you don't like the cold. What about this statement?

I realize full well that there's still plenty of time left before Spring, but...  It hasn't dropped below 16 degrees at all this year in Wichita.  If we don't have a decent cold snap, I have a feeling the bugs are going to be out in force when the weather warms up later.

Hopefully, that will come next week.

[bing101]

I'm still trying to understand what is so appealing about Texas east of San Antonio.  At least the western part of Texas tends to live up to its supposed reputation as being rural, the big cities are very gentrified at this point.  People my age seem to love Austin, but to me it is just the Texas version of San Francisco.

Yes and also Houston and Dallas those two cities have a reputation of being compared to the Texas edition of Los Angeles and Long Beach in recent years.

[abefroman329]

Then again, maybe it's just the Detroit and Chicago years in my youth that making the prospect of going back vexing?  I don't want to sound like I'm crapping on the Midwest, but what it that they supposedly offer now that wasn't already gone by the late 1990s?

Compared to what?  I don't want to live in any red state now that their governors are trampling municipalities' rights to enact laws the governors don't like.  Our recent trip to DC reminded me that I never want to raise my son there, or anywhere on the East Coast.  I'd move to California in a heartbeat if it wasn't so expensive.  That leaves Oregon and Washington State and...what do they offer that Illinois doesn't?

Mountains, beaches, forests...

Avi: Shut up and sit down, you big, bald fuck. [Doug sheepishly complies] I don't like leaving my own country Doug, and I especially don't like leaving it for anything less than warm, sandy beaches, and cocktails with little straw hats.
Doug the Head: We've got sandy beaches...
Avi: Yeah? So who the fuck wants to see 'em?

[hbelkins]

My personal rule of thumb is "don't live anywhere that was uninhabitable before the invention of air conditioning"

Meanwhile, I curse my ancestors for having migrated out of the tropical zones eons ago.

Don't live anywhere that is uninhabitable without wearing multiple layers of clothing or having central heat.

Things you don't have to worry about in places that require multiple layers of clothing or central heat:
poisonous venomous snakes
scorpions
alligators
hurricanes

FIFY.

And BTW, I'm pretty sure Maine has plenty of timber rattlers, if not eastern diamondbacks.

[thenetwork]

I'm going to add Myrtle Beach to the mix.

When they started to move the entertainment inland (Broadway at the Beach, the short lived Hard Rock Amusement Park,...)  in the 90s and they bulldozed the Pavillion Amusement area for condo projects that never materialized, that was the end of the Myrtle Beach I knew and loved.

[Rothman]

My personal rule of thumb is "don't live anywhere that was uninhabitable before the invention of air conditioning"

Meanwhile, I curse my ancestors for having migrated out of the tropical zones eons ago.

Don't live anywhere that is uninhabitable without wearing multiple layers of clothing or having central heat.

Things you don't have to worry about in places that require multiple layers of clothing or central heat:
poisonous venomous snakes
scorpions
alligators
hurricanes

FIFY.

And BTW, I'm pretty sure Maine has plenty of timber rattlers, if not eastern diamondbacks.

Having lived in and hiked considerably around New England for decades, I never came across a rattler or any other poisonous snake.

Just garter snakes, mostly.  Saw a snake swimming in a creek once, but it was too small to be a threat.

On the other hand, my father has come across rattlers during his hikes in western states.  So far, no luck for me coming across one, either.

[kphoger]

I'd argue that New Mexico does a much better job at what many perceive Texas to be in reality. 

You just reminded me of a line from the 1994 movie The Cowboy Way:

Officer Sam 'Mad Dog' Shaw – Where you guys from, Texas?

Pepper – Texas? Ain't no real cowboys from Texas, we're from New Mexico.

kphoger, you said you don't like the cold. What about this statement?

I realize full well that there's still plenty of time left before Spring, but...  It hasn't dropped below 16 degrees at all this year in Wichita.  If we don't have a decent cold snap, I have a feeling the bugs are going to be out in force when the weather warms up later.

Hopefully, that will come next week.

If I could have my way, there would be ten months of weather in the 50s—70s.  Then there would be one month of hot, dry, sunny summer weather, and one month of coldpocalypse winter weather with snow every day.

But what I've learned since I made that statement you quoted is that "a decent cold snap" really doesn't do nearly what I thought, when it comes to bugs the following spring.

[J N Winkler]

kphoger, you said you don't like the cold. What about this statement?

I realize full well that there's still plenty of time left before Spring, but...  It hasn't dropped below 16 degrees at all this year in Wichita.  If we don't have a decent cold snap, I have a feeling the bugs are going to be out in force when the weather warms up later.

Hopefully, that will come next week.

But what I've learned since I made that statement you quoted is that "a decent cold snap" really doesn't do nearly what I thought, when it comes to bugs the following spring.

Your post from last year was made on February 4, a Thursday.  Temperatures (at KICT) went below freezing at around 3 AM the following Saturday, February 6, and did not rise above it until the afternoon of Friday, February 19, a period of 13 days that fell just four days short of breaking the 1983-84 record for longest sustained spell of subfreezing weather (6 PM Tuesday, December 13, 1983 to 2 PM Sunday, January 1, 1984).

In Kansas we were prepared.  In Texas they were not.  As a result, it will take 10 years for us (and probably also natural gas customers in many other states) to pay off charges for the extra natural gas that had to be bought on the spot market when prices spiked by a factor of 200.

[kphoger]

kphoger, you said you don't like the cold. What about this statement?

I realize full well that there's still plenty of time left before Spring, but...  It hasn't dropped below 16 degrees at all this year in Wichita.  If we don't have a decent cold snap, I have a feeling the bugs are going to be out in force when the weather warms up later.

Hopefully, that will come next week.

But what I've learned since I made that statement you quoted is that "a decent cold snap" really doesn't do nearly what I thought, when it comes to bugs the following spring.

Your post from last year was made on February 4, a Thursday.  Temperatures (at KICT) went below freezing at around 3 AM the following Saturday, February 6, and did not rise above it until the afternoon of Friday, February 19, a period of 13 days that fell just four days short of breaking the 1983-84 record for longest sustained spell of subfreezing weather (6 PM Tuesday, December 13, 1983 to 2 PM Sunday, January 1, 1984).

In Kansas we were prepared.  In Texas they were not.  As a result, it will take 10 years for us (and probably also natural gas customers in many other states) to pay off charges for the extra natural gas that had to be bought on the spot market when prices spiked by a factor of 200.

Yes.  But my point was that there still bugs, come warm weather.  And enough people were hoping the same thing I was, that there were also plenty of people responding that the cold spell wouldn't have much effect.

[Mr_Northside]

New Stanton doesn't seem to be more popular.

New Stanton is quite a different beast than Breezewood.  Obviously, from a travel point of view, it doesn't have the "captive audience" aspect of private businesses and traffic signals for I-70 travel with the double-trumpets instead..... but I mean more in that it's in a much more populous metro area, as opposed to Breezewood kind of being in the middle of nowhere, and the closest real towns (like Everett & Bedford) aren't that big.
New Stanton also now has quite a few warehouses/shipping depots/whatever you want to call them in the vicinity as well.
That said, I don't know how much "charm" it ever really had.

[CapeCodder]

Cape Cod/Islands: Thru the eyes of a kid, they're awesome places. As an adult however...

St. Louis: My grandparents live in the Central West End. They moved into the city in the mid 60's. I'm old enough to remember when the next street over would have fires almost every night when we would visit.

[Avalanchez71]

Yeah, the usual typical red herring argument people come up with is to hyper focus on a single set of local policies that were in at most 1/3 of the states and completely ignore everything else.

(a) If you let someone who romanticizes "the good old days" talk for long enough, chances are they'll finally admit that what they like about "the good old days" is the subjugation of women and minorities to white men
(b) It is absolutely not a red herring to point out that "the good old days" weren't "good" for everyone.

Moreover, the exceptionally stupid part of the argument is that Jim Crow clearly has no relation to our other bad policies.

True, we did implement far more terrible policies in the name of anti-communism.

This coming from the Sausage King of Chicago.