News:

Thank you for your patience during the Forum downtime while we upgraded the software. Welcome back and see this thread for some new features and other changes to the forum.

Main Menu

Interchange U-Turns that are Intentional/By Design (NOT Texas U-Turns)

Started by webny99, December 06, 2023, 08:55:10 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

chrisg69911



webny99

Quote from: jp the roadgeek on December 06, 2023, 09:13:45 PM
Exit 9B on I-295 North is specifically for I-295 South.  The U-Turn is a result of utilizing a partially built interchange for the cancelled I-84 from Hartford to Providence.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/W6azLGc31Fp8cLXQA

Seems odd that the ramp was left open and signed if there's no plans to complete the interchange. But it does remind me of this ramp at the partially completed US 15/CSVT interchange near Winfield, PA.


Quote from: jp the roadgeek on December 06, 2023, 09:13:45 PM
And then you have a U-Turn northbound on the Palisades Parkway for access to Exit 3 on the southbound side

https://maps.app.goo.gl/tad1J4x6JQWYFkFT9

Never noticed it before, but that ramp also provides access from the State Line lookout to the SB Palisades. And there's another median U-turn south of Exit 3 to access the Palisades NB and State Line lookout.

And while on the subject of NY Parkways, this pair of U-turns on the Lake Ontario State Pkwy stands out for serving absolutely no purpose, although they could come in handy if there was a ramp closure at I-390 or Long Pond Rd. And then there's this bizarre setup on the Niagara Scenic Pkwy (former RMSP), where the U-turns to access Fort Schlosser are placed too tight to access the EB ramps, so there's an at-grade to serve the U-turning traffic. Someone sure overthought that one: it's simultaneously way more complicated AND way more substandard than it needed to be. :hmmm:

StogieGuy7


1995hoo

Quote from: StogieGuy7 on December 07, 2023, 11:29:47 AM
Quote from: CoreySamson on December 06, 2023, 09:04:50 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on December 06, 2023, 09:36:53 AM
Would something like this qualify?  It's Interstate 41/US 45 at Watertown Plank Rd in Wauwatosa, WI.

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.0452343,-88.0329262,805m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu
That is an absolutely beautiful interchange!

Seems unnecessarily complicated to me.

Conceptually, it reminds me of this one in Alexandria, Virginia, that I've always liked because of the nice way it eliminates cloverleaf weave areas, which the one in Wisconsin also does (but likely at greater cost due to having more, and longer, overpasses):

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.8345249,-77.0982107,545m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

StogieGuy7

Quote from: 1995hoo on December 07, 2023, 11:40:53 AM
Quote from: StogieGuy7 on December 07, 2023, 11:29:47 AM
Quote from: CoreySamson on December 06, 2023, 09:04:50 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on December 06, 2023, 09:36:53 AM
Would something like this qualify?  It's Interstate 41/US 45 at Watertown Plank Rd in Wauwatosa, WI.

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.0452343,-88.0329262,805m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu
That is an absolutely beautiful interchange!

Seems unnecessarily complicated to me.

Conceptually, it reminds me of this one in Alexandria, Virginia, that I've always liked because of the nice way it eliminates cloverleaf weave areas, which the one in Wisconsin also does (but likely at greater cost due to having more, and longer, overpasses):

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.8345249,-77.0982107,545m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu

This one makes a lot more sense to me. Plus, the traffic counts at this location near Alexandria are super high (I-395, former Shirley Highway, and VA-7 King St.). That interchange near Milwaukee has a small fraction of the daily traffic that your example has. Not to mention that Milwaukeeans don't seem capable of negotiating complex traffic patterns due to a glaring lack of training.

1995hoo

I'll take your word for that—Wisconsin is one of the nine states I have yet to visit.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

mgk920

Wouldn't any interchange with a matched pair of cloverleaf loop ramps meet the OP's criteria for this thread?

Mike

webny99

Quote from: StogieGuy7 on December 07, 2023, 01:37:12 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on December 07, 2023, 11:40:53 AM
Quote from: StogieGuy7 on December 07, 2023, 11:29:47 AM
Quote from: CoreySamson on December 06, 2023, 09:04:50 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on December 06, 2023, 09:36:53 AM
Would something like this qualify?  It's Interstate 41/US 45 at Watertown Plank Rd in Wauwatosa, WI.

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.0452343,-88.0329262,805m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu
That is an absolutely beautiful interchange!

Seems unnecessarily complicated to me.

Conceptually, it reminds me of this one in Alexandria, Virginia, that I've always liked because of the nice way it eliminates cloverleaf weave areas, which the one in Wisconsin also does (but likely at greater cost due to having more, and longer, overpasses):

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.8345249,-77.0982107,545m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu

This one makes a lot more sense to me. Plus, the traffic counts at this location near Alexandria are super high (I-395, former Shirley Highway, and VA-7 King St.). That interchange near Milwaukee has a small fraction of the daily traffic that your example has. Not to mention that Milwaukeeans don't seem capable of negotiating complex traffic patterns due to a glaring lack of training.

A small fraction? No doubt I-395 carries a ton of traffic, but 8 lanes of I-41 on the main freeway outside Milwaukee can't be carrying that much less traffic.  And it may be overbuilt (mostly because of the six separate bridges over Watertown-Plank Rd), but it doesn't seem particularly complicated to navigate.

webny99

Quote from: mgk920 on December 07, 2023, 07:26:29 PM
Wouldn't any interchange with a matched pair of cloverleaf loop ramps meet the OP's criteria for this thread?

Mike

Not unless both loops are used to make a single turn movement and signed as such.

And although many of the responses have been on freeways, I'm primarily looking for U-turns that occur on a surface street at a signalized intersection. There have been a handful of good examples and some interesting variants, but no perfect match for the first situation described yet (admittedly, even the NJ example in the OP came with a caveat).

webny99

Quote from: jmacswimmer on December 06, 2023, 02:56:45 PM
At the I-78/PA 309/PA 145 interchange south of Allentown (exit 60), the signed movement for PA 145 SB -> I-78 EB is to continue thru the interchange onto PA 309 SB, make a jughandle u-turn at the Saucon Valley Rd/Center Valley Parkway intersection, and then use the ramp to I-78 EB from PA 309 NB.

Whoops, missed responding to this one: First of all, the traffic signal between PA 309 and Center Valley Pkwy is absolutely insane. What's the point of having an interchange (or 3/4 of an interchange), only for the intersecting streets to still have a signal between them instead of an overpass/underpass? Not only that, directing the U-turning traffic into the leftmost turn lane sets them up to have to make a double weave once they turn onto PA 309 in order to even reach I-78 EB! An overpass here, by contrast, would allow the U-turning traffic to enter the existing ramp to PA 309 instead of turning directly onto mainline PA 309, which would then appropriately join PA 309 on the right, so the U-turning vehicles would already be in position to access I-78 EB with no lane merges required, instead of two inside of 1000 feet.  :crazy:

Beyond that craziness, this is actually a pretty good example of the second situation in the OP, and well-signed as such.

mrsman

For exits, I will introduce you to the I-270 and I-495 interchange in Bethesda, MD -- particularly the interaction with MD 355 (Rockville Pike in the immediate area and Wisconsin Ave a little bit further south).  The official name change seems to occur at Woodmont Ave, just south of NIH, but signs on the highways still do make a mention of Wisconsin Ave, even though this is almost a mile further north. 


https://www.google.com/maps/@39.0164667,-77.0982353,3a,75y,315.42h,80.08t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sA-UDz4fYyRmhjc9i8UjZIQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

The exit signage on the westbound (outer loop) Beltway indicates both Rockville and Bethesda (i.e. north and south), but the exit puts you on MD 355 going northbound.  You need to make use of a jughandle to head southbound, after driving for a little bit on MD 355 north.

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.0199397,-77.102203,3a,37.5y,350.69h,88.03t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sOrYD32yF5BFNOTq_HBGA9g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

The exit signage on the eastbound (inner loop) Beltway only indicates Bethesda and it indeed forces you to go southbound only on MD 355.  But if you do insist on going north, there is some signage to guide you by way of a u-turn.

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.0165803,-77.1015974,3a,75y,81.9h,87.6t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sjaMRJX_Af9Hoe_KE8B_zag!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

Most cars in this left turn lane are making the indicated u-turn and not turning left on Bellevue.

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.0131494,-77.098777,3a,75y,122.22h,83t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1skT1KRsP-ViT1sgUPE3Spmg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

Technically, the last exit on I-270 south before its merge with Beltway eastbound is also an exit to MD 355 south.  One could do the same u-turn to head onto MD 355 north, if that is desired, but likely less traffic is interested as MD 355 is I-270's business route and MD 355 parallels I-270 for its entire length.  So more of I-270's traffic that wants MD 355 north is likely to just use a different exit to reach MD 355, like taking Old Georgetown Road to Tuckerman Lane to MD 355.  [Honestly, eastbound Beltway traffic could also do a similar maneuver as well to avoid the u-turn.]

Another use for that u-turn is for traffic on SB MD 355 from Rockville that wants to head toward the EB Beltway (to Silver Spring and Baltimore).  There is a direct ramp for this movement, but it puts you on the left side of the Beltway, and that can be an uncomfortable merge for some people, myself included.  If I am in the area and I am headed home, I would usually go past the Beltway, make the u-turn and then use the ramp from NB MD 355 to the Beltway east which puts you on the right side of the Beltway.  This is better for me as I will usually take the Georgia Ave exit to go home, only two exits away.  Making multiple lane changes is very tricky in this area, because the Beltway is very curvy.  No signs to indicate it, but I definitely see from my experiences that I am not the only one who makes the u-turn to access the EB Beltway ramp.

SB MD 355 also has no direct access to WB Beltway or I-270 north.  This u-turn can also be handy for those movements, but signage generally will direct traffic toward Old Georgetown Road instead, either directly or by use of Tuckerman Lane.




1995hoo

^^^^

I forgot about that interchange. I remember when we were kids, our mom usually took us to White Flint to see the Christmas decorations and she usually made a right on Pooks Hill Road and then turned around through the Marriott hotel's parking lot.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

lepidopteran

Does this count?  In Columbus, OH, Alum Creek Dr. to WB I-70.  The sign directs traffic to U-turn on to an on-ramp going the other direction.  Note the (rare in the state) "Passenger Cars Only" caveat, due to the tightness of the turn.

GaryA

It's an isolated mini-freeway, but traffic at the east end of CA 156 is forced onto CA 152 eastbound, with signage directing traffic for CA 152 westbound to use the next exit (Casa de Fruta Parkway, about 1 mile) and re-enter CA 152 westbound.

The GSV at https://maps.app.goo.gl/Srf2k5WqV2o44hvL7 (on CA 152 EB) shows an example of the signage, including a somewhat odd outline US 101 shield.

webny99

Quote from: mrsman on December 10, 2023, 01:43:35 PM
For exits, I will introduce you to the I-270 and I-495 interchange in Bethesda, MD -- particularly the interaction with MD 355 (Rockville Pike in the immediate area and Wisconsin Ave a little bit further south).  The official name change seems to occur at Woodmont Ave, just south of NIH, but signs on the highways still do make a mention of Wisconsin Ave, even though this is almost a mile further north. 
...

The exit signage on the eastbound (inner loop) Beltway only indicates Bethesda and it indeed forces you to go southbound only on MD 355.  But if you do insist on going north, there is some signage to guide you by way of a u-turn.

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.0165803,-77.1015974,3a,75y,81.9h,87.6t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sjaMRJX_Af9Hoe_KE8B_zag!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

Most cars in this left turn lane are making the indicated u-turn and not turning left on Bellevue.

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.0131494,-77.098777,3a,75y,122.22h,83t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1skT1KRsP-ViT1sgUPE3Spmg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

Definitely a fascinating interchange! This second example in particular is about the best example we've had so far of a signed freeway interchange movement requiring U-turn on a surface street.


Quote from: lepidopteran on December 10, 2023, 02:14:40 PM
Does this count?  In Columbus, OH, Alum Creek Dr. to WB I-70.  The sign directs traffic to U-turn on to an on-ramp going the other direction.  Note the (rare in the state) "Passenger Cars Only" caveat, due to the tightness of the turn.

Wow! I have never seen anything quite like this before. I can't believe that's actually a legal and signed turn movement. It definitely fits the spirit of odd U-turn movements to access a freeway ramp, but it is very odd, especially since there's a ramp not far away on Livingston Ave. We could probably have a whole thread of "places where this should be legal" - starting with right here.

webny99

Quote from: GaryA on December 10, 2023, 02:46:24 PM
It's an isolated mini-freeway, but traffic at the east end of CA 156 is forced onto CA 152 eastbound, with signage directing traffic for CA 152 westbound to use the next exit (Casa de Fruta Parkway, about 1 mile) and re-enter CA 152 westbound.

The GSV at https://maps.app.goo.gl/Srf2k5WqV2o44hvL7 (on CA 152 EB) shows an example of the signage, including a somewhat odd outline US 101 shield.

This is another good example. Also interesting that there is a median U-turn that could be used (though it is currently signed as no U-turn) but traffic is directed all the way up to the next interchange instead.

davewiecking

Quote from: 1995hoo on December 10, 2023, 01:48:59 PM
^^^^

I forgot about that interchange. I remember when we were kids, our mom usually took us to White Flint to see the Christmas decorations and she usually made a right on Pooks Hill Road and then turned around through the Marriott hotel's parking lot.

First thing that popped into my mind when I read the OP, but I knew it deserved lots of GSV links which are a pain on an iPad. The traffic light with a long left/u turn arrow is a "recent" addition, meaning only 25 or so years ago. The U turn has always been available, but without a signal it could take forever.

NE2

pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

jeffandnicole

While not a freeway interchange, US 202 North to US 13 South/40 West has a signed u-turn to get to the US 202 South ramp. https://maps.app.goo.gl/KcWD1vVJP2WXzMtr7

While truck u-turns are not prohibited, a small sign advises the truck route is to go straight.  No further guidance is provided.

jmacswimmer

Two more I thought of:

-At the AC Expressway/NJ 54 interchange (exit 28) south of Hammonton, the only direct movements for the ACE WB are off to NJ 54 NB & on from NJ 54 SB. To cover both NJ 54 NB -> ACE WB & ACE WB -> NJ 54 SB, a single jughandle u-turn is provided just north of the interchange. (And unlike the I-78/PA 309/PA 145 interchange I linked upthread, this jughandle exists only for the u-turn and is not part of a separate intersection.)

-At the I-93/Columbia Rd interchange (exit 15) south of Boston, the only direct movements for I-93 NB are off to Columbia Rd EB & on from Columbia Rd WB. Traffic looking to make the Columbia Rd EB -> I-93 NB & I-93 NB -> Columbia Rd WB movements are directed to u-turn via the rotary just to the east. (Although the sign explaining this movement was knocked down sometime after the November 2020 GSV & appears to have yet to be replaced.)
"Now, what if da Bearss were to enter the Indianapolis 5-hunnert?"
"How would they compete?"
"Let's say they rode together in a big buss."
"Is Ditka driving?"
"Of course!"
"Then I like da Bear buss."
"DA BEARSSS BUSSSS"

freebrickproductions

Quote from: webny99 on December 10, 2023, 04:59:15 PM
Quote from: lepidopteran on December 10, 2023, 02:14:40 PM
Does this count?  In Columbus, OH, Alum Creek Dr. to WB I-70.  The sign directs traffic to U-turn on to an on-ramp going the other direction.  Note the (rare in the state) "Passenger Cars Only" caveat, due to the tightness of the turn.

Wow! I have never seen anything quite like this before. I can't believe that's actually a legal and signed turn movement. It definitely fits the spirit of odd U-turn movements to access a freeway ramp, but it is very odd, especially since there's a ramp not far away on Livingston Ave. We could probably have a whole thread of "places where this should be legal" - starting with right here.

Anyone else notice this interesting sign just up the street in the Columbus, OH, example? Can't say I'd ever seen anything quite like it before.
It's all fun & games until someone summons Cthulhu and brings about the end of the world.

I also collect traffic lights, road signs, fans, and railroad crossing equipment.

(They/Them)

JREwing78

Near Grand Rapids, MI, this turn for WBD M-21 traffic to access the newly-opened EBD I-96 ramp qualifies. The on-ramp to I-96 opened earlier this fall.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/94oriZRbU2WxUixZ8

The EBD M-21 to WBD I-96 movement has been around a while longer: https://maps.app.goo.gl/RSHemAWNnuzyyf9a8

Bitmapped

A couple Pennsylvania examples that I think fit:
- I-80/US 11 interchange at Berwick, PA has a U-turn ramp used for US 11 northbound to get to I-80 westbound: https://maps.app.goo.gl/7eFsmPxe3SSZ11bN6
- U-turn ramps are used for some movements at the PA 51/PA 837 interchange at West Elizabeth, PA: https://maps.app.goo.gl/qyVjFUA36nJu8eCs6
- Southbound PA 837 at the Glenwood Bridge interchange with PA 885 requires a U-turn movement: https://maps.app.goo.gl/k6oPAa2wzeVoB6ha7
- Banksville interchange of I-376/Truck US 19/PA 51 has a U-turn ramp that provides access to I-376 eastbound while also carrying both directions of Truck US 19: https://maps.app.goo.gl/9m1s5YDg3DpF43jZA
- Outside Lancaster, a U-turn ramp provides access from US 30 eastbound to PA 283 westbound: https://maps.app.goo.gl/K5AXepY4BPE9ZhHe8



roadman65

How about the SB Florida Turnpike exit to US 27 near Groveland, Florida. You have to turn right onto US 27 SB and u turn ( with a wide shoulder for semis to swing wide on the opposing side) to the NB lanes to avoid installing a traffic signal for Lake County to maintain.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/pu5HV7bb5sgLDL2K8
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

wanderer2575

Northbound Vining Road at I-94 in Romulus, MI requires a signed (but not signalized) U-turn to use the ramp from southbound Vining Road to westbound I-94.

Signage.



Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.