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I-75 (and I-71) "Cut in the Hill"

Started by Henry, July 26, 2022, 10:30:42 AM

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Henry

Somewhere south of Cincinnati, there is a 2-mile piece of I-71/I-75 nicknamed the Cut in the Hill. From the Kyles Lane exit, the northbound freeway takes a hard left and then makes a sudden drop into Covington, with the full skyline of downtown Cincinnati spreading out before you, giving off the rollercoaster effect along the way. It is one of the deadliest stretches of highway in the nation, even with all the safety measures taken over the years, such as a jersey barrier in the median and signs warning of the steep grade. Many twists and turns, a long downhill stretch, speeding, inclement weather and rush-hour traffic have contributed to thousands of crashes in the six decades since it opened, and the ongoing issues with the Brent Spence Bridge that follows immediately don't help either. If you were with KYTC, and in charge of making this freeway safer, what would you do?

(Personally, I'd put up signs as far back as I-275 warning through traffic of the steep grade ahead, as well as advisory speed signs at least one or two miles before the actual descent begins, plus an "Alternate Route to Cincinnati" sign listing I-275 east to I-471 north.)

Also, what is up with the delay of plans to actually improve the Cut in the Hill? While I think it's good that the Brent Spence project is about to move forward, it would be even better to work on the stretch south of there as well.
Go Cubs Go! Go Cubs Go! Hey Chicago, what do you say? The Cubs are gonna win today!


hbelkins

They've worked on that section of road many times over the past few years. What else should be done to the road itself?


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amroad17

When I moved from the Hampton Roads area to Northern Kentucky in late 1994, KTC was putting the final touches on the reconstructed "Cut-in-the-Hill".  From the second photo shown of I-71/75 (SB view) in cincinnati-transit.net, the current situation is much better than the winding 6-lane through the hill.  The interchange shown in the photo no longer exists.  I-71/75 now curves just before the bottom of the photo and is straight from there, through the loops of the old interchange, over where the road curves back to the left, to a point just above the photo where the old alignment curves toward Kyles Lane.  Part of the west side hill was excavated to make room for this.

Going downhill (NB) on I-71/75, the highway curves a bit right just north of the Kyles Lane on-ramps, then makes two slight curves back left before going straight down the hill, then curving left at the base of the hill. https://goo.gl/maps/34RZ7uMvumZHf7kTA

It is steep, about a 4% grade, but there are advisory signs at the Dixie Hwy interchange 1 mile south of where the descent begins. https://goo.gl/maps/jMbsbNcfm4w18Khb8   There is also another advisory sign at the Kyles Lane overpass.

KTC has also installed signage directing vehicles with hazardous materials to not take I-71/75 north of I-275 due to the truck collision and fire on the Brent Spence Bridge in December 2020. https://goo.gl/maps/J6KAzGZ9LWcSXpCu7 https://goo.gl/maps/6quk14Rc3Hop4gUS9  These were installed in April 2021.  There is signage similar to these on I-275 on each approach to the I-71/75//I-275 interchange in Erlanger.

There also has been an improvement made to the pavement on the northbound side.  Instead of the pavement being all concrete, there is a section that begins here between the two left curves https://goo.gl/maps/a9tVg2f8moAfV2AGA that is a semi-course asphalt that goes halfway down the hill--most likely to improve tire grip on rainy/snowy days when traversing the curve as for some reason this is where many collisions occur.

I do agree that there should be an advisory sign for the hill on I-71/75 NB between the Turfway Rd. and KY 236 interchanges.  The speed limit does reduce from 65 to 55 right at the KY 236 interchange and maintains that all the way to the Brent Spence. 

As an aside, the speed limit was 70 through the Cut-in-the-Hill until a fatal accident in 1973 when it was reduced to 55.

So, there is not much else that can be done to "improve" the road.  Perhaps if some drivers would "improve" their driving habits (both truckers and four-wheelers), incidents would lessen considerably.
I don't need a GPS.  I AM the GPS! (for family and friends)

bandit957

Quote from: amroad17 on July 27, 2022, 01:12:13 AMAs an aside, the speed limit was 70 through the Cut-in-the-Hill until a fatal accident in 1973 when it was reduced to 55.

I think it may have even been 50 for a while.

I remember the Jefferson Avenue exit, but I don't remember it ever being open. I remember it being closed for years.
Might as well face it, pooing is cool

ran4sh

I'm surprised that there aren't more cities with full beltways that ban thru truck traffic and require them to take the beltway. This stretch, with the downhill, curves, and traffic, has much more of a reason for thru trucks to be banned than anything in the Atlanta GA area does, and Atlanta bans thru truck traffic.
Control cities CAN be off the route! Control cities make NO sense if signs end before the city is reached!

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bandit957

Quote from: ran4sh on August 01, 2022, 08:37:32 PM
I'm surprised that there aren't more cities with full beltways that ban thru truck traffic and require them to take the beltway. This stretch, with the downhill, curves, and traffic, has much more of a reason for thru trucks to be banned than anything in the Atlanta GA area does, and Atlanta bans thru truck traffic.

I think there used to be a ban for that stretch, but they directed trucks onto I-471 instead of making them use I-275 the whole way. I-471 really took a beating when they did this.
Might as well face it, pooing is cool

amroad17

Quote from: bandit957 on August 01, 2022, 09:58:30 PM
Quote from: ran4sh on August 01, 2022, 08:37:32 PM
I'm surprised that there aren't more cities with full beltways that ban thru truck traffic and require them to take the beltway. This stretch, with the downhill, curves, and traffic, has much more of a reason for thru trucks to be banned than anything in the Atlanta GA area does, and Atlanta bans thru truck traffic.

I think there used to be a ban for that stretch, but they directed trucks onto I-471 instead of making them use I-275 the whole way. I-471 really took a beating when they did this.
It sure did.  The concrete on I-471 was cracked and torn up from the extra truck traffic.  Had to drive in the left lane to keep the teeth from chattering and to keep the car from hitting the holes.  I believe it was 2014-2015 when I-471's concrete pavement was torn up and replaced with asphalt.  The ride is much smoother now.
I don't need a GPS.  I AM the GPS! (for family and friends)

bandit957

Quote from: amroad17 on August 02, 2022, 01:49:04 AMI believe it was 2014-2015 when I-471's concrete pavement was torn up and replaced with asphalt.

They've actually torn up the whole pavement at least twice since the early '90s. There was one time when they had it completely torn off through an entire winter, with just this weird surface underneath.
Might as well face it, pooing is cool

Tom958

What if they built two separate two-lane roadways for northbound 71-75, separated by a concrete barrier? That way, a crash on one roadway wouldn't send out-of-control vehicles careening into the other. A cursory look at Google Maps suggests that there's plenty of room along much of that stretch, and the Brent Spence project will be splitting the roads there anyway (that's probably more of a problem than an opportunity, though).

sprjus4

Quote from: ran4sh on August 01, 2022, 08:37:32 PM
I'm surprised that there aren't more cities with full beltways that ban thru truck traffic and require them to take the beltway. This stretch, with the downhill, curves, and traffic, has much more of a reason for thru trucks to be banned than anything in the Atlanta GA area does, and Atlanta bans thru truck traffic.
Thru truck traffic isn't banned on I-71/I-75. The signs specify hazardous cargo is prohibited and must take I-275.

I believe Texas has the same situation with at least San Antonio and Houston. Hazardous cargo is directed to take I-410 and I-610 respectively and avoid the downtowns.

ran4sh

Quote from: sprjus4 on August 02, 2022, 07:57:17 AM
Quote from: ran4sh on August 01, 2022, 08:37:32 PM
I'm surprised that there aren't more cities with full beltways that ban thru truck traffic and require them to take the beltway. This stretch, with the downhill, curves, and traffic, has much more of a reason for thru trucks to be banned than anything in the Atlanta GA area does, and Atlanta bans thru truck traffic.
Thru truck traffic isn't banned on I-71/I-75. The signs specify hazardous cargo is prohibited and must take I-275.

I believe Texas has the same situation with at least San Antonio and Houston. Hazardous cargo is directed to take I-410 and I-610 respectively and avoid the downtowns.

Yes, that's what I said. In some of these cities with beltways, thru truck traffic *should* be banned but isn't.
Control cities CAN be off the route! Control cities make NO sense if signs end before the city is reached!

Travel Mapping - Most Traveled: I-40, 20, 10, 5, 95 - Longest Clinched: I-20, 85, 24, 16, NJ Tpk mainline
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Hot Rod Hootenanny

Quote from: sprjus4 on August 02, 2022, 07:57:17 AM
Quote from: ran4sh on August 01, 2022, 08:37:32 PM
I'm surprised that there aren't more cities with full beltways that ban thru truck traffic and require them to take the beltway. This stretch, with the downhill, curves, and traffic, has much more of a reason for thru trucks to be banned than anything in the Atlanta GA area does, and Atlanta bans thru truck traffic.
Thru truck traffic isn't banned on I-71/I-75. The signs specify hazardous cargo is prohibited and must take I-275.

I believe Texas has the same situation with at least San Antonio and Houston. Hazardous cargo is directed to take I-410 and I-610 respectively and avoid the downtowns.

Yes, Columbus was the first city, in Ohio, to do this, back in the late 1980s/early 90s (though there was no teeth in the enforcement). Cleveland soon followed suit, keeping through Hazardous cargo to I-480 & I-271 (though their signage was more haphazard)
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amroad17

^ Another reason the hazardous cargo ban is in effect is because hazardous cargo is not allowed on I-71 in the Lytle Tunnel just east of downtown Cincinnati.  NB HC trucks were supposed to follow I-75 north to the Norwood Lateral or to I-275 East to I-71.  SB HC trucks from I-71 were directed to follow I-471 to I-275 West to I-71/75 in Erlanger.  Signs warning about the tunnel are posted at the Fields-Ertel/Mason-Montgomery interchange (19) in case HC trucks wanted to use I-275 around the east side of Cincinnati.  https://goo.gl/maps/nCs1VVHYyQ5xPMDw6.  SB I-75 HC could use the Brent Spence to cross into Kentucky.  Because of the accident on the Brent Spence around a year and a half ago, NB is directed to use I-275 East to I-471 North to get back to I-71 or I-75.  SB from I-71 is directed to use I-471 South to I-275 West.  SB from I-75 is directed to use I-71 North to I-471 South to I-275 West.
I don't need a GPS.  I AM the GPS! (for family and friends)

bandit957

Also, last I checked, there was still a sign on I-71 south in Cincinnati telling everyone to take I-471 to get to the airport. Think how silly that is.
Might as well face it, pooing is cool

amroad17

Quote from: bandit957 on August 02, 2022, 11:26:30 PM
Also, last I checked, there was still a sign on I-71 south in Cincinnati telling everyone to take I-471 to get to the airport. Think how silly that is.
https://goo.gl/maps/zuybzJYKochE6Afu5
Here it is, posted between the Dana interchange (5) and the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. interchange (3) just west of the Woodburn Ave. overpass.  And, yes, that is silly as traveling that way is 23 miles versus 15 taking the Brent Spence.  Perhaps it was posted to lessen the burden on the Brent Spence and the old Ft. Washington Way (a story in itself), especially during rush hours?  I know it has been posted before 1994 when I moved to Northern Kentucky; probably since 1980 when I-471 opened south of the Daniel Carter Beard (Big Mac) Bridge.
I don't need a GPS.  I AM the GPS! (for family and friends)

bandit957

Quote from: amroad17 on August 02, 2022, 11:41:48 PM
Quote from: bandit957 on August 02, 2022, 11:26:30 PM
Also, last I checked, there was still a sign on I-71 south in Cincinnati telling everyone to take I-471 to get to the airport. Think how silly that is.
https://goo.gl/maps/zuybzJYKochE6Afu5
Here it is, posted between the Dana interchange (5) and the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. interchange (3) just west of the Woodburn Ave. overpass.  And, yes, that is silly as traveling that way is 23 miles versus 15 taking the Brent Spence.  Perhaps it was posted to lessen the burden on the Brent Spence and the old Ft. Washington Way (a story in itself), especially during rush hours?  I know it has been posted before 1994 when I moved to Northern Kentucky; probably since 1980 when I-471 opened south of the Daniel Carter Beard (Big Mac) Bridge.

It seems like a sign was first posted in the '90s. I know someone wrecked into it not too long ago (maybe 15 years ago), and they replaced it.
Might as well face it, pooing is cool

bandit957

Quote from: bandit957 on August 02, 2022, 11:44:50 PM
Quote from: amroad17 on August 02, 2022, 11:41:48 PM
Quote from: bandit957 on August 02, 2022, 11:26:30 PM
Also, last I checked, there was still a sign on I-71 south in Cincinnati telling everyone to take I-471 to get to the airport. Think how silly that is.
https://goo.gl/maps/zuybzJYKochE6Afu5
Here it is, posted between the Dana interchange (5) and the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. interchange (3) just west of the Woodburn Ave. overpass.  And, yes, that is silly as traveling that way is 23 miles versus 15 taking the Brent Spence.  Perhaps it was posted to lessen the burden on the Brent Spence and the old Ft. Washington Way (a story in itself), especially during rush hours?  I know it has been posted before 1994 when I moved to Northern Kentucky; probably since 1980 when I-471 opened south of the Daniel Carter Beard (Big Mac) Bridge.

It seems like a sign was first posted in the '90s. I know someone wrecked into it not too long ago (maybe 15 years ago), and they replaced it.

Also, the sign that appears on Street View is different from what I remember last seeing there. The BGS that I remember was off to the side of the road. This means they must have replaced it again very recently.
Might as well face it, pooing is cool

Alps

Quote from: bandit957 on August 02, 2022, 11:44:50 PM
Quote from: amroad17 on August 02, 2022, 11:41:48 PM
Quote from: bandit957 on August 02, 2022, 11:26:30 PM
Also, last I checked, there was still a sign on I-71 south in Cincinnati telling everyone to take I-471 to get to the airport. Think how silly that is.
https://goo.gl/maps/zuybzJYKochE6Afu5
Here it is, posted between the Dana interchange (5) and the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. interchange (3) just west of the Woodburn Ave. overpass.  And, yes, that is silly as traveling that way is 23 miles versus 15 taking the Brent Spence.  Perhaps it was posted to lessen the burden on the Brent Spence and the old Ft. Washington Way (a story in itself), especially during rush hours?  I know it has been posted before 1994 when I moved to Northern Kentucky; probably since 1980 when I-471 opened south of the Daniel Carter Beard (Big Mac) Bridge.

It seems like a sign was first posted in the '90s. I know someone wrecked into it not too long ago (maybe 15 years ago), and they replaced it.
I'm assuming it's to reroute people around a place that sometimes experiences congestion. Of course I know better for a weekend or well off-peak.

amroad17

Quote from: Alps on August 02, 2022, 11:54:45 PM
Quote from: bandit957 on August 02, 2022, 11:44:50 PM
Quote from: amroad17 on August 02, 2022, 11:41:48 PM
Quote from: bandit957 on August 02, 2022, 11:26:30 PM
Also, last I checked, there was still a sign on I-71 south in Cincinnati telling everyone to take I-471 to get to the airport. Think how silly that is.
https://goo.gl/maps/zuybzJYKochE6Afu5
Here it is, posted between the Dana interchange (5) and the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. interchange (3) just west of the Woodburn Ave. overpass.  And, yes, that is silly as traveling that way is 23 miles versus 15 taking the Brent Spence.  Perhaps it was posted to lessen the burden on the Brent Spence and the old Ft. Washington Way (a story in itself), especially during rush hours?  I know it has been posted before 1994 when I moved to Northern Kentucky; probably since 1980 when I-471 opened south of the Daniel Carter Beard (Big Mac) Bridge.

It seems like a sign was first posted in the '90s. I know someone wrecked into it not too long ago (maybe 15 years ago), and they replaced it.
I'm assuming it's to reroute people around a place that sometimes experiences congestion. Of course I know better for a weekend or well off-peak.
Yes, the sign was ground-mounted just before where the Montgomery on-ramp merges with I-71 South. https://goo.gl/maps/jyfrr92he2bKhLFa9.  GSV shows the sign was damaged in 2011 and was replaced about 50 feet closer to the ramp.  When I-71 was repaved in 2016-2017 the sign was gone.  A new one mentioning Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky International Airport instead of just International Airport was placed on the overhead gantry shown in the prior post after the road work was complete.

It beats the posting of Gtr Cinti Airport or Greater Cincinnati Airport on both I-74 near Harrison, OH and on I-275 on a mileage sign south of the lone Indiana interchange.
I-74: https://goo.gl/maps/t2tdSsU1DSe4xuan8
I-275: https://goo.gl/maps/dZbDhT1FSzCT38CU6

BTW, sorry for making this stray away from the topic originally posted.
I don't need a GPS.  I AM the GPS! (for family and friends)

Henry

Quote from: amroad17 on August 02, 2022, 11:24:19 PM
^ Another reason the hazardous cargo ban is in effect is because hazardous cargo is not allowed on I-71 in the Lytle Tunnel just east of downtown Cincinnati.  NB HC trucks were supposed to follow I-75 north to the Norwood Lateral or to I-275 East to I-71.  SB HC trucks from I-71 were directed to follow I-471 to I-275 West to I-71/75 in Erlanger.  Signs warning about the tunnel are posted at the Fields-Ertel/Mason-Montgomery interchange (19) in case HC trucks wanted to use I-275 around the east side of Cincinnati.  https://goo.gl/maps/nCs1VVHYyQ5xPMDw6.  SB I-75 HC could use the Brent Spence to cross into Kentucky.  Because of the accident on the Brent Spence around a year and a half ago, NB is directed to use I-275 East to I-471 North to get back to I-71 or I-75.  SB from I-71 is directed to use I-471 South to I-275 West.  SB from I-75 is directed to use I-71 North to I-471 South to I-275 West.
I-695 in Baltimore works the same way, as the two tunnels prohibit HAZMAT trucks from using them.

I think it's quite unusual to have the Norwood Lateral be part of an alternate route for these trucks, but I guess it works as a better shortcut to I-71 compared to continuing on to I-275 east.
Go Cubs Go! Go Cubs Go! Hey Chicago, what do you say? The Cubs are gonna win today!

amroad17

^ The reason I mentioned the Norwood Lateral is that there is an Exit 7 BGS on I-75 NB with a he following: OH 562 TO I-71.  So this is a way for HC trucks to get back on I-71 North.  I have not seen any sign posted prohibiting HC trucks from going that way.
I don't need a GPS.  I AM the GPS! (for family and friends)

doglover44

Has the Cut in the Hill section gotten any better ?

amroad17

Quote from: doglover44 on September 06, 2022, 12:09:02 AM
Has the Cut in the Hill section gotten any better ?
No, fairly much the status quo from the last year and pre-Covid.  In other words, nothing has changed.  Traffic still backs up NB in the morning and both NB and SB in the afternoon.  Also, as the sun setting time creeps closer to 6 pm (and 5 pm when we go back to standard time in November), there will be sun delays once a SB motorist turns the first curve halfway up the Cut-In-The Hill.

The Cut-In-The-Hill section would be even worse if Hazmat trucks were allowed over the Brent Spence Bridge.  Because Hazmats are not allowed that way, EB I-275 has an afternoon backup from the Erlanger Interchange (w/ I-75) at least to the Wilder interchange (77-KY 9/AA Highway).  Then the left lane of EB I-275 backs up about 1/2 east of the Wilder interchange with many motorists trying to go on I-471 NB.  WB I-275 has a daily backup to the Dixie Highway interchange (83) with motorists going to I-75 SB.  There is an overhead VMS board on I-275 WB between Exits 80 and 82 showing times to the Airport and to the I-71/I-75 south split in Walton.  The usual driving time to the south split is 16 minutes (approx. 14 miles).  I have seen it as high as 38 minutes.  It is mainly from negotiating the C/D roads and the exit ramps along I-71/I-75 in Erlanger and Florence that contribute to this.

After one has lived here a while, one just expects and accepts that the Cut-In-The-Hill section in going to have heavy traffic during the day--and even sometimes at night.   Other than lane expansion and the possibility that a new bridge will be built over the Ohio River, we who live here have come to the reality that it will be a slow go in this section.
I don't need a GPS.  I AM the GPS! (for family and friends)

hbelkins

Found out yesterday that the new Brent Spence companion bridge project will include improvements all the way south to the Dixie Highway/Kyles Lane interchanges. What's on the table is a system of C/D lanes between those two exits to eliminate weaving on the mainline.

Someone remind me; the presentation I saw yesterday should be placed online before too long and I'll post the link to it once it's available.


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