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Could USA and Canada expand?

Started by Poiponen13, October 19, 2022, 08:55:02 AM

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Rothman

Quote from: brad2971 on October 19, 2022, 10:14:55 PM
As far as this silly notion that the Russian Federation is going to break up in response to their military disaster in Ukraine: We would do well to remember that this Russo-Ukraine War is the first near-peer war in human history in which BOTH near-peers each had a Total Fertility Rate below 2.0 (Russia-around 1.5. Ukraine-around 1.3). Russia, very likely, isn't going to be giving up any more land beyond what they took from Ukraine over the last eight years.

If "demography is destiny," the land threats both Ukraine and Russia face are going to be more likely from Turkey and most Near and Middle Eastern nations. Iran, despite various economic sanctions over the decades, still has a TFR around 2.15, and has developed a robust defense industry. Same with Turkey, with a TFR of 2.06.
LOL.

Well, that certainly found yet another kooky direction in which to take this thread.

Talk about doing it for your country...
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.


Max Rockatansky

Quote from: Rothman on October 19, 2022, 10:20:50 PM
Quote from: brad2971 on October 19, 2022, 10:14:55 PM
As far as this silly notion that the Russian Federation is going to break up in response to their military disaster in Ukraine: We would do well to remember that this Russo-Ukraine War is the first near-peer war in human history in which BOTH near-peers each had a Total Fertility Rate below 2.0 (Russia-around 1.5. Ukraine-around 1.3). Russia, very likely, isn't going to be giving up any more land beyond what they took from Ukraine over the last eight years.

If "demography is destiny," the land threats both Ukraine and Russia face are going to be more likely from Turkey and most Near and Middle Eastern nations. Iran, despite various economic sanctions over the decades, still has a TFR around 2.15, and has developed a robust defense industry. Same with Turkey, with a TFR of 2.06.
LOL.

Well, that certainly found yet another kooky direction in which to take this thread.

Talk about doing it for your country...

Two World Wars, Soviet era Five Year Plans, and mega purges didn't do any former parts of the USSR favors in maintaining a healthy birth vs death rate. 

brad2971

Quote from: Rothman on October 19, 2022, 10:20:50 PM
Quote from: brad2971 on October 19, 2022, 10:14:55 PM
As far as this silly notion that the Russian Federation is going to break up in response to their military disaster in Ukraine: We would do well to remember that this Russo-Ukraine War is the first near-peer war in human history in which BOTH near-peers each had a Total Fertility Rate below 2.0 (Russia-around 1.5. Ukraine-around 1.3). Russia, very likely, isn't going to be giving up any more land beyond what they took from Ukraine over the last eight years.

If "demography is destiny," the land threats both Ukraine and Russia face are going to be more likely from Turkey and most Near and Middle Eastern nations. Iran, despite various economic sanctions over the decades, still has a TFR around 2.15, and has developed a robust defense industry. Same with Turkey, with a TFR of 2.06.
LOL.

Well, that certainly found yet another kooky direction in which to take this thread.

Talk about doing it for your country...

Despite the advances Ukraine has shown us vis-a-vis drone warfare and targeting artillery, advances that should make the US Army and Air Force think long and hard about strategy, a great power needs boots on the ground to hold territory. That means, over time, birthing and nurturing lots of babies into children and adults. Over the last 60-70 years, LOTs of nations, from China to Russia to the US, even India and the Philippines, have seen their child birthing rates plummet.

That's not kooky, by any means.

Rothman

Quote from: brad2971 on October 19, 2022, 10:31:47 PM
Quote from: Rothman on October 19, 2022, 10:20:50 PM
Quote from: brad2971 on October 19, 2022, 10:14:55 PM
As far as this silly notion that the Russian Federation is going to break up in response to their military disaster in Ukraine: We would do well to remember that this Russo-Ukraine War is the first near-peer war in human history in which BOTH near-peers each had a Total Fertility Rate below 2.0 (Russia-around 1.5. Ukraine-around 1.3). Russia, very likely, isn't going to be giving up any more land beyond what they took from Ukraine over the last eight years.

If "demography is destiny," the land threats both Ukraine and Russia face are going to be more likely from Turkey and most Near and Middle Eastern nations. Iran, despite various economic sanctions over the decades, still has a TFR around 2.15, and has developed a robust defense industry. Same with Turkey, with a TFR of 2.06.
LOL.

Well, that certainly found yet another kooky direction in which to take this thread.

Talk about doing it for your country...

Despite the advances Ukraine has shown us vis-a-vis drone warfare and targeting artillery, advances that should make the US Army and Air Force think long and hard about strategy, a great power needs boots on the ground to hold territory. That means, over time, birthing and nurturing lots of babies into children and adults. Over the last 60-70 years, LOTs of nations, from China to Russia to the US, even India and the Philippines, have seen their child birthing rates plummet.

That's not kooky, by any means.
I can see the propoganda poster now: MAKE WHOOPIE TODAY; MAKE SOLDIERS OF TOMORROW!
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: Rothman on October 19, 2022, 10:51:49 PM
Quote from: brad2971 on October 19, 2022, 10:31:47 PM
Quote from: Rothman on October 19, 2022, 10:20:50 PM
Quote from: brad2971 on October 19, 2022, 10:14:55 PM
As far as this silly notion that the Russian Federation is going to break up in response to their military disaster in Ukraine: We would do well to remember that this Russo-Ukraine War is the first near-peer war in human history in which BOTH near-peers each had a Total Fertility Rate below 2.0 (Russia-around 1.5. Ukraine-around 1.3). Russia, very likely, isn't going to be giving up any more land beyond what they took from Ukraine over the last eight years.

If "demography is destiny," the land threats both Ukraine and Russia face are going to be more likely from Turkey and most Near and Middle Eastern nations. Iran, despite various economic sanctions over the decades, still has a TFR around 2.15, and has developed a robust defense industry. Same with Turkey, with a TFR of 2.06.
LOL.

Well, that certainly found yet another kooky direction in which to take this thread.

Talk about doing it for your country...

Despite the advances Ukraine has shown us vis-a-vis drone warfare and targeting artillery, advances that should make the US Army and Air Force think long and hard about strategy, a great power needs boots on the ground to hold territory. That means, over time, birthing and nurturing lots of babies into children and adults. Over the last 60-70 years, LOTs of nations, from China to Russia to the US, even India and the Philippines, have seen their child birthing rates plummet.

That's not kooky, by any means.
I can see the propoganda poster now: MAKE WHOOPIE TODAY; MAKE SOLDIERS OF TOMORROW!

Might not be enough if the countries involved can't keep their skilled professionals from leaving for employment aboard.  In the case of Russia they certainly have an issue with officers being offed in the latest war. 

mgk920

Speaking of Sakhalin Island, only recently (as in within the past few years), Russia completed a major infrastructure project there to rebuild the island's railroads from their pre-WWII Japanese narrow (1 meter?) track gauge to the Russian standard 1560mm broad track gauge.  that is a major investment.

Mike

GaryV

Comeback for the OP: "Could Finland expand?" Maybe they could take the Kola Peninsula.

SectorZ

Quote from: brad2971 on October 19, 2022, 10:31:47 PM
Quote from: Rothman on October 19, 2022, 10:20:50 PM
Quote from: brad2971 on October 19, 2022, 10:14:55 PM
As far as this silly notion that the Russian Federation is going to break up in response to their military disaster in Ukraine: We would do well to remember that this Russo-Ukraine War is the first near-peer war in human history in which BOTH near-peers each had a Total Fertility Rate below 2.0 (Russia-around 1.5. Ukraine-around 1.3). Russia, very likely, isn't going to be giving up any more land beyond what they took from Ukraine over the last eight years.

If "demography is destiny," the land threats both Ukraine and Russia face are going to be more likely from Turkey and most Near and Middle Eastern nations. Iran, despite various economic sanctions over the decades, still has a TFR around 2.15, and has developed a robust defense industry. Same with Turkey, with a TFR of 2.06.
LOL.

Well, that certainly found yet another kooky direction in which to take this thread.

Talk about doing it for your country...

Despite the advances Ukraine has shown us vis-a-vis drone warfare and targeting artillery, advances that should make the US Army and Air Force think long and hard about strategy, a great power needs boots on the ground to hold territory. That means, over time, birthing and nurturing lots of babies into children and adults. Over the last 60-70 years, LOTs of nations, from China to Russia to the US, even India and the Philippines, have seen their child birthing rates plummet.

That's not kooky, by any means.

Birth rates plummeting has more to do with approaching first-world nation status. Accessibility to family planning being a huge factor, along with women attaining rights to work and/or not to be baby factories.

triplemultiplex

I cringe at the idea that any country in the world needs MORE PEOPLE; as if we've got unlimited resources on this stupid planet.
Neutral growth means a future for all.
"That's just like... your opinion, man."

Rothman

Quote from: triplemultiplex on October 20, 2022, 11:09:32 AM
I cringe at the idea that any country in the world needs MORE PEOPLE; as if we've got unlimited resources on this stupid planet.
Neutral growth means a future for all.
We need the soldiers eighteen years from now!

Don't worry, the killings in the wars will even things out.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

Max Rockatansky

^^^

To be fair countries like Russia have had a track record of treating their population like disposable assets.  What is going on now certainly seems on brand with Russia historically.

Quote from: triplemultiplex on October 20, 2022, 11:09:32 AM
I cringe at the idea that any country in the world needs MORE PEOPLE; as if we've got unlimited resources on this stupid planet.
Neutral growth means a future for all.

Population stagnation often equates to economic stagnation, the latter is what nobody wants.  Basically if you aren't growing, you are falling behind.  I'm not saying that should be how population trends should he viewed, but that's how it is. 

JayhawkCO

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 20, 2022, 01:40:21 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on October 20, 2022, 11:09:32 AM
I cringe at the idea that any country in the world needs MORE PEOPLE; as if we've got unlimited resources on this stupid planet.
Neutral growth means a future for all.

Population stagnation often equates to economic stagnation, the latter is what nobody wants.  Basically if you aren't growing, you are falling behind.  I'm not saying that should be how population trends should he viewed, but that's how it is.

Japan is almost the opposite of that trend -- no kids because everyone is only focusing on their jobs.

Rothman

Quote from: JayhawkCO on October 20, 2022, 05:16:54 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 20, 2022, 01:40:21 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on October 20, 2022, 11:09:32 AM
I cringe at the idea that any country in the world needs MORE PEOPLE; as if we've got unlimited resources on this stupid planet.
Neutral growth means a future for all.

Population stagnation often equates to economic stagnation, the latter is what nobody wants.  Basically if you aren't growing, you are falling behind.  I'm not saying that should be how population trends should he viewed, but that's how it is.

Japan is almost the opposite of that trend -- no kids because everyone is only focusing on their jobs.
They don't take the defense of their country seriously, then.  Children should be mandatory.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: Rothman on October 20, 2022, 08:22:10 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on October 20, 2022, 05:16:54 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 20, 2022, 01:40:21 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on October 20, 2022, 11:09:32 AM
I cringe at the idea that any country in the world needs MORE PEOPLE; as if we've got unlimited resources on this stupid planet.
Neutral growth means a future for all.

Population stagnation often equates to economic stagnation, the latter is what nobody wants.  Basically if you aren't growing, you are falling behind.  I'm not saying that should be how population trends should he viewed, but that's how it is.

Japan is almost the opposite of that trend -- no kids because everyone is only focusing on their jobs.
They don't take the defense of their country seriously, then.  Children should be mandatory.

Japan can't have a traditional military courtesy Article 9 of their Constitution:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_9_of_the_Japanese_Constitution#:~:text=Article%209%20of%20the%20Japanese%20Constitution%20%28日本国憲法第9条%2C%20Nihonkokukenpō,on%203%20May%201947%2C%20following%20World%20War%20II.

Rothman

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 20, 2022, 09:13:53 PM
Quote from: Rothman on October 20, 2022, 08:22:10 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on October 20, 2022, 05:16:54 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 20, 2022, 01:40:21 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on October 20, 2022, 11:09:32 AM
I cringe at the idea that any country in the world needs MORE PEOPLE; as if we've got unlimited resources on this stupid planet.
Neutral growth means a future for all.

Population stagnation often equates to economic stagnation, the latter is what nobody wants.  Basically if you aren't growing, you are falling behind.  I'm not saying that should be how population trends should he viewed, but that's how it is.

Japan is almost the opposite of that trend -- no kids because everyone is only focusing on their jobs.
They don't take the defense of their country seriously, then.  Children should be mandatory.

Japan can't have a traditional military courtesy Article 9 of their Constitution:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_9_of_the_Japanese_Constitution#:~:text=Article%209%20of%20the%20Japanese%20Constitution%20%28日本国憲法第9条%2C%20Nihonkokukenpō,on%203%20May%201947%2C%20following%20World%20War%20II.
And yet, their defense budget is one of the largest in the world.

They just won't have an army because they aren't having babies, according to some on here.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

TheHighwayMan3561

Quote from: Rothman on October 20, 2022, 08:22:10 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on October 20, 2022, 05:16:54 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 20, 2022, 01:40:21 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on October 20, 2022, 11:09:32 AM
I cringe at the idea that any country in the world needs MORE PEOPLE; as if we've got unlimited resources on this stupid planet.
Neutral growth means a future for all.

Population stagnation often equates to economic stagnation, the latter is what nobody wants.  Basically if you aren't growing, you are falling behind.  I'm not saying that should be how population trends should he viewed, but that's how it is.

Japan is almost the opposite of that trend -- no kids because everyone is only focusing on their jobs.
They don't take the defense of their country seriously, then.  Children should be mandatory.

China found out the hard way that there's an extreme on that end too.

I'm not a fan of "we need kids so we can have people available to die in a trench at 18"..
self-certified as the dumbest person on this board for 5 years running

Rothman



Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on October 20, 2022, 10:56:43 PM
Quote from: Rothman on October 20, 2022, 08:22:10 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on October 20, 2022, 05:16:54 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 20, 2022, 01:40:21 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on October 20, 2022, 11:09:32 AM
I cringe at the idea that any country in the world needs MORE PEOPLE; as if we've got unlimited resources on this stupid planet.
Neutral growth means a future for all.

Population stagnation often equates to economic stagnation, the latter is what nobody wants.  Basically if you aren't growing, you are falling behind.  I'm not saying that should be how population trends should he viewed, but that's how it is.

Japan is almost the opposite of that trend -- no kids because everyone is only focusing on their jobs.
They don't take the defense of their country seriously, then.  Children should be mandatory.

China found out the hard way that there's an extreme on that end too.

I'm not a fan of "we need kids so we can have people available to die in a trench at 18"..

It's not a matter of morality, it's a matter of survival.  Go and make babies.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

JayhawkCO

Quote from: Rothman on October 20, 2022, 11:14:53 PM


Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on October 20, 2022, 10:56:43 PM
Quote from: Rothman on October 20, 2022, 08:22:10 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on October 20, 2022, 05:16:54 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 20, 2022, 01:40:21 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on October 20, 2022, 11:09:32 AM
I cringe at the idea that any country in the world needs MORE PEOPLE; as if we've got unlimited resources on this stupid planet.
Neutral growth means a future for all.

Population stagnation often equates to economic stagnation, the latter is what nobody wants.  Basically if you aren't growing, you are falling behind.  I'm not saying that should be how population trends should he viewed, but that's how it is.

Japan is almost the opposite of that trend -- no kids because everyone is only focusing on their jobs.
They don't take the defense of their country seriously, then.  Children should be mandatory.

China found out the hard way that there's an extreme on that end too.

I'm not a fan of "we need kids so we can have people available to die in a trench at 18"..

It's not a matter of morality, it's a matter of survival.  Go and make babies.

I already had one. Now I just like to practice.

Poiponen13

This thread should be closed. USA and Canada will never expand to Russia.

Rothman

Quote from: Poiponen13 on October 21, 2022, 04:03:51 AM
This thread should be closed. USA and Canada will never expand to Russia.
Pfft.  You started this nonsense.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

Molandfreak

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 20, 2022, 01:40:21 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on October 20, 2022, 11:09:32 AM
I cringe at the idea that any country in the world needs MORE PEOPLE; as if we've got unlimited resources on this stupid planet.
Neutral growth means a future for all.

Population stagnation often equates to economic stagnation, the latter is what nobody wants.  Basically if you aren't growing, you are falling behind.  I'm not saying that should be how population trends should he viewed, but that's how it is.
Achieving economic growth isn't impossible with a declining population. It's more difficult, but not impossible if the country is prepared to make investments in areas that will benefit the projected population years down the line. Germany has done it, and China will probably do it in the next couple decades.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 05, 2023, 08:24:57 PM
AASHTO attributes 28.5% of highway inventory shrink to bad road fan social media posts.

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: Molandfreak on October 21, 2022, 02:03:15 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 20, 2022, 01:40:21 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on October 20, 2022, 11:09:32 AM
I cringe at the idea that any country in the world needs MORE PEOPLE; as if we've got unlimited resources on this stupid planet.
Neutral growth means a future for all.

Population stagnation often equates to economic stagnation, the latter is what nobody wants.  Basically if you aren't growing, you are falling behind.  I'm not saying that should be how population trends should he viewed, but that's how it is.
Achieving economic growth isn't impossible with a declining population. It's more difficult, but not impossible if the country is prepared to make investments in areas that will benefit the projected population years down the line. Germany has done it, and China will probably do it in the next couple decades.

Has Russia done anything as of late to suggest they are prepared or capable of making those investments? 

Rothman

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 21, 2022, 02:05:14 PM
Quote from: Molandfreak on October 21, 2022, 02:03:15 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 20, 2022, 01:40:21 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on October 20, 2022, 11:09:32 AM
I cringe at the idea that any country in the world needs MORE PEOPLE; as if we've got unlimited resources on this stupid planet.
Neutral growth means a future for all.

Population stagnation often equates to economic stagnation, the latter is what nobody wants.  Basically if you aren't growing, you are falling behind.  I'm not saying that should be how population trends should he viewed, but that's how it is.
Achieving economic growth isn't impossible with a declining population. It's more difficult, but not impossible if the country is prepared to make investments in areas that will benefit the projected population years down the line. Germany has done it, and China will probably do it in the next couple decades.

Has Russia done anything as of late to suggest they are prepared or capable of making those investments?
They do have a public health care system.  Had a co-worker get sick.  We walked into the hospital and were seen without any paperwork I can remember.  In and out in less than an hour.  Pretty sweet.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

Duke87

I'm glad that, not content to stick to fictional highways, we now have fictional imperialism too.
If you always take the same road, you will never see anything new.

skluth

Quote from: Duke87 on October 21, 2022, 04:32:49 PM
I'm glad that, not content to stick to fictional highways, we now have fictional imperialism too.

Fictional imperialism is the best kind of imperialism



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