Article: Proposed New Tollway To Connect W Orange Co to Lake Co

[Brian556]

"Three routes are being considered, but the most favorable would connect U.S. 27 to State Road 429 at the Schofield Road Interchange."

http://www.mynews13.com/content/news/cfnews13/news/article.html/content/news/articles/cfn/2017/7/13/central_florida_expr.html
Google Map of area: https://www.google.com/maps/@28.5452608,-81.5536085,50906m/data=!3m1!1e3

I say it needs to be further north closer to SR 50. The Schofield Rd location sounds almost useless. One possible option I see is a John's Lake Rd/ Marsh Rd/ Stoneybrook Pkwy route.

[Max Rockatansky]

That's a total waste, all the traffic is up on 50.  It would be nice to have an east/west tollway bypass of 50 through Clermont to at least Groveland.

[DeaconG]

That's a total waste, all the traffic is up on 50.  It would be nice to have an east/west tollway bypass of 50 through Clermont to at least Groveland.

THIS. Not only would it help reduce the traffic there, it would make for a nice alternative route to Dade City and Brooksville.

[WashuOtaku]

That's a total waste, all the traffic is up on 50.  It would be nice to have an east/west tollway bypass of 50 through Clermont to at least Groveland.

So then it's the other reason for the toll road.  Who all is invested in land along its route?

[Max Rockatansky]

I would suspect the projection for urban sprawl might have something to do with by Schofield Road is being targeted for development of a new tollway corridor.  The problem with FL 50 is that most of Clermont is already built up with modern housing/businesses.  About the only thing I can see is what Brian556 said about Marsh Road since it might be possible to have something skirt the north end of Lake Louisa which might branch west to FL 33/FL 50.

[jakeroot]

Reading that News13 article...

An estimated 7,800 cars would use the new roadway by the year 2025

Is that an estimated AADT number? That's tiny! They're focusing their efforts on building, what I assume will be a freeway, in order to handle 7800 cars a day?

I know very, very little about Orlando. But it seems to me that straightening out the current Schofield Road and upping the speed limit would be the best course of action.

Beyond that, a Groveland-Clermont bypass seems to be an excellent idea. I'd suggest going south of Lake Louisa, but at that point, it no longer has access to Groveland or Clermont.

[Max Rockatansky]

Reading that News13 article...

An estimated 7,800 cars would use the new roadway by the year 2025

Is that an estimated AADT number? That's tiny! They're focusing their efforts on building, what I assume will be a freeway, in order to handle 7800 cars a day?

I know very, very little about Orlando. But it seems to me that straightening out the current Schofield Road and upping the speed limit would be the best course of action.

Beyond that, a Groveland-Clermont bypass seems to be an excellent idea. I'd suggest going south of Lake Louisa, but at that point, it no longer has access to Groveland or Clermont.

The problem is with the Orlando area is that there has been very little planning in regards to future sprawl.  The road grid is basically pure chaos with almost no organization on the surface level.  I think that the idea here is to project for future southward sprawl of Clermont to keep traffic off of FL 50 which is already a six lane divided surface expressway east of US 27.  The suburban growth has already reached Groveland with new housing developments popping up along 50.  Does anyone know if Hancock Road actually ever had an interchange with the Turnpike actually built?...used to be no access to the Turnpike between FL 50 and US 27.

There is a semi-functional bypass of Clermont/Groveland that really is the about the same travel time as sticking to 50 westbound if you take the Turnpike up to FL 19, then 19 south back to 50.  Despite the huge northward swing I usually would arrive in Mascotte at the same time as I would have if I stuck to 50 with all the traffic lights.

[RG407]

There has been an insane amount of growth in Orange County along the FL429/CR535 corridor the last ten years or so.  And an equally insane amount of growth along the US27 corridor in Lake County south of Clermont.  These corridors are north-south.  The only east-west corridor in the area is along FL50 on the northern edge, and it is already very congested as has already been pointed out.  So, yes, new toll road around Schofield Road would help east-west movement some.  But keep in mind, the Central Florida Expressway Authority has a long history of adding more and more toll roads and widening projects in order to justify its existence.

[jakeroot]

[K]eep in mind, the Central Florida Expressway Authority has a long history of adding more and more toll roads and widening projects in order to justify its existence.

I might be crazy, but at least from afar, Florida does appear to have a rather high-quality network of toll roads. I'd be happy to pay a toll to use a road, if it meant a smooth, fast ride.

If new toll roads are required for CFEA to justify its existence, does that mean that current tolls handily cover the maintenance of present-day toll roads?

[noelbotevera]

I too am not an expert in the Orlando area, but my thoughts on this is that it should run between FL 33 and I-4. It would provide some sort of relief for FL 50 between Groveland and the western edge of Orlando (despite being so far south it's nearly useless), but the only issues are the swamps (marshes?) east of FL 429.

Also, couldn't they have converted FL 50 to freeway at least 30 years ago?

[roadman65]

Converting FL 50 to a freeway 30 years ago would have been smart, and in some places like Kansas or Texas would be the norm to handle sprawl, but not in Florida.  We allow developers to come in and then worry about later.  Meanwhile more developers come and fill in the crevices and turn rural cattle land into more development.  Heck the Orlando City Limits now touch Osceola County as the whole CR 15 corridor from Lake Nona to Ashton in Osceola County is now open for developers so the city wants that $$$.

Then Dick Scott does not help in giving breaks to new land developers to create jobs for the people moving out of places like NY and NJ to get away from state government dysfunction plus his campaigning in CA to get people in there to move to Sunny Florida (yes Scott got on a plane to California and personally rallied its citizens to think about Florida to move to).

However, an ultimate plan is to have the Polk Parkway in Polk County and the FL 408 to both connect one day as a continuous toll road beyond its trumpet end with I-4 near Polk City.  In addition a toll road bypass of Leesburg for SR 44 is also a plan to connect I-75 with FL 429 in the same rough sketch the former OOCEA once showed in a newsletter before the web took over that role of current events.

[DeaconG]

[K]eep in mind, the Central Florida Expressway Authority has a long history of adding more and more toll roads and widening projects in order to justify its existence.

I might be crazy, but at least from afar, Florida does appear to have a rather high-quality network of toll roads. I'd be happy to pay a toll to use a road, if it meant a smooth, fast ride.

If new toll roads are required for CFEA to justify its existence, does that mean that current tolls handily cover the maintenance of present-day toll roads?

For the most part, CFEA (and OOCEA before them) usually tries to use the toll money to back bonds to build new toll roads so they aren't dependent on the state government.

[jwolfer]

Converting FL 50 to a freeway 30 years ago would have been smart, and in some places like Kansas or Texas would be the norm to handle sprawl, but not in Florida.  We allow developers to come in and then worry about later.  Meanwhile more developers come and fill in the crevices and turn rural cattle land into more development.  Heck the Orlando City Limits now touch Osceola County as the whole CR 15 corridor from Lake Nona to Ashton in Osceola County is now open for developers so the city wants that $$$.

Then Dick Scott does not help in giving breaks to new land developers to create jobs for the people moving out of places like NY and NJ to get away from state government dysfunction plus his campaigning in CA to get people in there to move to Sunny Florida (yes Scott got on a plane to California and personally rallied its citizens to think about Florida to move to).

However, an ultimate plan is to have the Polk Parkway in Polk County and the FL 408 to both connect one day as a continuous toll road beyond its trumpet end with I-4 near Polk City.  In addition a toll road bypass of Leesburg for SR 44 is also a plan to connect I-75 with FL 429 in the same rough sketch the former OOCEA once showed in a newsletter before the web took over that role of current events.

Florida has once rural highways change to multilane suburban arterials with traffic lights galore.. Numerous examples in Orlando area and Jacksonville area

LGMS428

[cpzilliacus]

For the most part, CFEA (and OOCEA before them) usually tries to use the toll money to back bonds to build new toll roads so they aren't dependent on the state government.

I thought that CFEA got little or no tax money, and has to fund everything with toll revenues and bonds backed by  those revenues?

[DeaconG]

For the most part, CFEA (and OOCEA before them) usually tries to use the toll money to back bonds to build new toll roads so they aren't dependent on the state government.

I thought that CFEA got little or no tax money, and has to fund everything with toll revenues and bonds backed by  those revenues?

For the most part it does, but with the Wekiva Parkway they're only coughing up 50 percent (FDOT will pay the rest).
EDIT: Here's an article from 2011 that talks about the dollar amounts (midway through the story):
https://web.archive.org/web/20111024155246/http://www.cfnews13.com/article/news/2011/may/251337/State,-Expressway-Authority-form-partnership-to-build-Wekiva-Parkway

[roadman65]

Converting FL 50 to a freeway 30 years ago would have been smart, and in some places like Kansas or Texas would be the norm to handle sprawl, but not in Florida.  We allow developers to come in and then worry about later.  Meanwhile more developers come and fill in the crevices and turn rural cattle land into more development.  Heck the Orlando City Limits now touch Osceola County as the whole CR 15 corridor from Lake Nona to Ashton in Osceola County is now open for developers so the city wants that $$$.

Then Dick Scott does not help in giving breaks to new land developers to create jobs for the people moving out of places like NY and NJ to get away from state government dysfunction plus his campaigning in CA to get people in there to move to Sunny Florida (yes Scott got on a plane to California and personally rallied its citizens to think about Florida to move to).

However, an ultimate plan is to have the Polk Parkway in Polk County and the FL 408 to both connect one day as a continuous toll road beyond its trumpet end with I-4 near Polk City.  In addition a toll road bypass of Leesburg for SR 44 is also a plan to connect I-75 with FL 429 in the same rough sketch the former OOCEA once showed in a newsletter before the web took over that role of current events.

Florida has once rural highways change to multilane suburban arterials with traffic lights galore.. Numerous examples in Orlando area and Jacksonville area

LGMS428

US 27 is the perfect example of that.  From Lake Wales to Ocala it used to be rural and now its a heavy used suburban arterial.

In fact it was 65 mph for a long time between I-4 and SR 50 and now its down to 45 mph in most parts.  There is one part left at the 65 mph posting, but that is not yet widened to six lanes and has not yet developed fully.  Also as late as 1991, US 27 had only one stoplight from I-4 (not counting the I-4 ramp signals of course) to the Leesburg City Limits and that was at the Turnpike South (formerly both directions pre coin system tolling).

[jwolfer]

Converting FL 50 to a freeway 30 years ago would have been smart, and in some places like Kansas or Texas would be the norm to handle sprawl, but not in Florida.  We allow developers to come in and then worry about later.  Meanwhile more developers come and fill in the crevices and turn rural cattle land into more development.  Heck the Orlando City Limits now touch Osceola County as the whole CR 15 corridor from Lake Nona to Ashton in Osceola County is now open for developers so the city wants that $$$.

Then Dick Scott does not help in giving breaks to new land developers to create jobs for the people moving out of places like NY and NJ to get away from state government dysfunction plus his campaigning in CA to get people in there to move to Sunny Florida (yes Scott got on a plane to California and personally rallied its citizens to think about Florida to move to).

However, an ultimate plan is to have the Polk Parkway in Polk County and the FL 408 to both connect one day as a continuous toll road beyond its trumpet end with I-4 near Polk City.  In addition a toll road bypass of Leesburg for SR 44 is also a plan to connect I-75 with FL 429 in the same rough sketch the former OOCEA once showed in a newsletter before the web took over that role of current events.

Florida has once rural highways change to multilane suburban arterials with traffic lights galore.. Numerous examples in Orlando area and Jacksonville area

LGMS428

US 27 is the perfect example of that.  From Lake Wales to Ocala it used to be rural and now its a heavy used suburban arterial.

In fact it was 65 mph for a long time between I-4 and SR 50 and now its down to 45 mph in most parts.  There is one part left at the 65 mph posting, but that is not yet widened to six lanes and has not yet developed fully.  Also as late as 1991, US 27 had only one stoplight from I-4 (not counting the I-4 ramp signals of course) to the Leesburg City Limits and that was at the Turnpike South (formerly both directions pre coin system tolling).

I was just out on that part of 27 last weekend. Wow so much different than when i was last there

LGMS428