There will be a CONELRAD-type test on your smart phone tomorrow, 03 October, afternoon.
Quote from: 02 Park Ave on October 02, 2018, 07:24:21 PM
There will be a CONELRAD-type test on your smart phone tomorrow, 03 October, afternoon.
I have "Government Alerts" (and "AMBER Alerts") turned off on my phone. It will be interesting to see if I still get the test.
Quote from: hbelkins on October 02, 2018, 08:51:56 PM
Quote from: 02 Park Ave on October 02, 2018, 07:24:21 PM
There will be a CONELRAD-type test on your smart phone tomorrow, 03 October, afternoon.
I have "Government Alerts" (and "AMBER Alerts") turned off on my phone. It will be interesting to see if I still get the test.
According to the following link, you can't opt out of it, and you'll get it if your wireless carrier participates in Wireless Emergency Alerts (another article said about 95% of phones in the US are on networks that do).
https://www.fema.gov/emergency-alert-test
Frankly, if conservative parents were able to pull their children out of school rather than have them listen to a message from Michelle Obama about the importance of staying in school and working hard, then I should be able to opt out of receiving this clown's mandatory rage-Tweets.
Looks like I'll be turning my phone off for about a half-hour tomorrow...
Some more information (including lists of supported phones broken down by carrier) here: https://www.reddit.com/r/SeattleWA/comments/9kla5x/this_wednesdays_emergency_test_might_save_your/
Having a functioning emergency alert system should be a top priority for an industrialized country like ours. The entire West Coast is left unprotected thanks to a lack of earthquake early detection and warning systems, which could buy precious minutes for people to shelter in place and then flee from an incoming tsunami (as seen recently in Indonesia, where the alerts were rescinded or did not trigger due to negligence/lack of maintenance).
If anyone else were president there would not be nearly as much hubub about this.
It's been longstanding practice to test the emergency broadcast system on radio and TV; we're all familiar with the message and the series of deep beeps that accompany it.
It may be unprecedented to have a test like this of the mobile network presidential alert system... but given how many people now rely on smartphones and don't regularly watch live TV or listen to traditional radio, it makes sense to.
Quote from: Duke87 on October 03, 2018, 01:45:30 AM
If anyone else were president there would not be nearly as much hubub about this.
That's because no other President has been this irresponsible with the communication tools at their disposal. And if it had started under Obama, there would have been conspiracy theorist galore.
Quote from: Duke87 on October 03, 2018, 01:45:30 AM
If anyone else were president there would not be nearly as much hubub about this.
It's been longstanding practice to test the emergency broadcast system on radio and TV; we're all familiar with the message and the series of deep beeps that accompany it.
It may be unprecedented to have a test like this of the mobile network presidential alert system... but given how many people now rely on smartphones and don't regularly watch live TV or listen to traditional radio, it makes sense to.
Yep. All I see is just the system getting with the times.
Quote from: Duke87 on October 03, 2018, 01:45:30 AM
If anyone else were president there would not be nearly as much hubub about this.
It's been longstanding practice to test the emergency broadcast system on radio and TV; we're all familiar with the message and the series of deep beeps that accompany it.
It may be unprecedented to have a test like this of the mobile network presidential alert system... but given how many people now rely on smartphones and don't regularly watch live TV or listen to traditional radio, it makes sense to.
The difference here is that they are announcing in advance exactly when the test will take place (2:17 pm EDT) - which they don't do with the "normal" weekly EAS tests on radio and TV. The fact Trump is president actually has nothing to do with the hubbub over this.
And the test alert is supposed to be a text message, so if you shut your phone off, you'll still get the message.
Quote from: roadman on October 03, 2018, 11:34:17 AM
And the test alert is supposed to be a text message, so if you shut your phone off, you'll still get the message.
Including the wonky sound?
I wonder if my brother's Irish phone will get this, given he's in NYC for his birthday today.
It would surely be a failing of the system if foreign phones in the USA don't get it.
Quote from: english si on October 03, 2018, 11:50:14 AM
It would surely be a failing of the system if foreign phones in the USA don't get it.
IMO, that depends on whether or not it can be guaranteed foreign visitors won't be charged for receiving an international text message.
Bad guy in movie: "Attack them when they do their practice alert. They'll never see it coming!"
Rick
Quote from: abefroman329 on October 03, 2018, 02:24:18 AM
Quote from: Duke87 on October 03, 2018, 01:45:30 AM
If anyone else were president there would not be nearly as much hubub about this.
That's because no other President has been this irresponsible with the communication tools at their disposal. And if it had started under Obama, there would have been conspiracy theorist galore.
It did start under Obama. The enabling legislation was passed during the Obama administration. It requires a test every three years. This would be happening even if Hillary had won.
This isn't Trump's personal emergency warning account.
Quote from: kphoger on October 03, 2018, 12:00:13 PM
Quote from: english si on October 03, 2018, 11:50:14 AM
It would surely be a failing of the system if foreign phones in the USA don't get it.
IMO, that depends on whether or not it can be guaranteed foreign visitors won't be charged for receiving an international text message.
The alerts aren't pushed via SMS, but by a separate communications protocol. Any global-ready device should receive the alert.
Quote from: Bruce on October 02, 2018, 10:50:23 PM
Some more information (including lists of supported phones broken down by carrier) here: https://www.reddit.com/r/SeattleWA/comments/9kla5x/this_wednesdays_emergency_test_might_save_your/
Having a functioning emergency alert system should be a top priority for an industrialized country like ours. The entire West Coast is left unprotected thanks to a lack of earthquake early detection and warning systems, which could buy precious minutes for people to shelter in place and then flee from an incoming tsunami (as seen recently in Indonesia, where the alerts were rescinded or did not trigger due to negligence/lack of maintenance).
Absolutely true.
The reason why people disable these warnings is due to inappropriate warnings sent out. A few years back, an Amber Alert was sent to millions of people in the NJ/Philly/NYC area (I forget the exact locations). Fine and dandy, except the alert went out about 3:30am. Millions of people were woken up to their phones blaring. Many said never again, and turned off all alerts.
The purpose of an Amber Alert is to let people know a vehicle or other important information regarding the kidnapping. Most people aren't driving overnight, so most people wouldn't be on the road. Add in that they don't really want you looking at your phone while driving, and you're dealing with a useless piece of info waking everyone up in the middle of the night. There were some defenders of the system and the alert (you know, the "Better Safe Than Sorry", "Think of the Children" crowd), but as far as I know none of them actually went looking for the vehicle.
Quote from: roadman on October 03, 2018, 12:59:23 PM
Quote from: kphoger on October 03, 2018, 11:44:39 AM
Quote from: roadman on October 03, 2018, 11:34:17 AM
And the test alert is supposed to be a text message, so if you shut your phone off, you'll still get the message.
Including the wonky sound?
It's a text alert, so the only sound you should receive is whatever sound you use to alert you to new text messages. And you'll still get that sound even if you shut your phone off prior to the test and turn it on later.
No, as RobbieL2415 said upthread, this is not a SMS text message. That means it won't come up in your text message inbox, and it won't give you the same sound you set for text message alerts. WEA messages (whether they're presidential alerts, tornado warnings, Amber alerts, etc.) use their own system. The wonky sound is unique to that system, and usually can't be changed.
But that said, I bet the message (including wonky sound) will show up once you turn your phone back on. I remember once when I was flying to Tulsa, when I turned off airplane mode after we landed, my phone got an Amber alert that had been issued the day before.
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on October 03, 2018, 12:41:17 PM
Quote from: kphoger on October 03, 2018, 12:00:13 PM
Quote from: english si on October 03, 2018, 11:50:14 AM
It would surely be a failing of the system if foreign phones in the USA don't get it.
IMO, that depends on whether or not it can be guaranteed foreign visitors won't be charged for receiving an international text message.
The alerts aren't pushed via SMS, but by a separate communications protocol. Any global-ready device should receive the alert.
But does that actually mean people won't be charged for receiving data packets abroad?
It's possible for certain things to be free even with international roaming. For example, if you get the "welcome to Canada" text when crossing the border, that is free, even though all other text messages would incur changes.
Quote from: hbelkins on October 03, 2018, 12:32:51 PMThis isn't Trump's personal emergency warning account.
Color me skeptical that it won't be utilized as such.
Quote from: abefroman329 on October 03, 2018, 01:28:27 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on October 03, 2018, 12:32:51 PMThis isn't Trump's personal emergency warning account.
Color me skeptical that it won’t be utilized as such.
He can't, per these (https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/trump-can-t-use-fema-s-wireless-alerts-send-personal-n910676) articles (https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/10/3/17931894/emergency-alert-test-presidential-text). There's a law that says the system can only be used for true national emergencies. Even if Trump tried, this is a FEMA system, so even in a real emergency he'd have to go through them anyway.
Also, this system or its equivalent has existed in various forms for 60 years, and it has
never been used, despite significant national events such as 9/11. That's a precedent that Trump probably doesn't want to break, or else his re-election chances will go down to zero.
Quote from: kphoger on October 03, 2018, 01:15:02 PM
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on October 03, 2018, 12:41:17 PM
Quote from: kphoger on October 03, 2018, 12:00:13 PM
Quote from: english si on October 03, 2018, 11:50:14 AM
It would surely be a failing of the system if foreign phones in the USA don't get it.
IMO, that depends on whether or not it can be guaranteed foreign visitors won't be charged for receiving an international text message.
The alerts aren't pushed via SMS, but by a separate communications protocol. Any global-ready device should receive the alert.
But does that actually mean people won't be charged for receiving data packets abroad?
It shouldn't be, nor should it count against people on PAYG plans or plans with data caps. Whether it works the way it should remains to be seen.
Quote from: US 89 on October 03, 2018, 01:40:28 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on October 03, 2018, 01:28:27 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on October 03, 2018, 12:32:51 PMThis isn't Trump's personal emergency warning account.
Color me skeptical that it won't be utilized as such.
He can't, per these (https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/trump-can-t-use-fema-s-wireless-alerts-send-personal-n910676) articles (https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/10/3/17931894/emergency-alert-test-presidential-text). There's a law that says the system can only be used for true national emergencies. Even if Trump tried, this is a FEMA system, so even in a real emergency he'd have to go through them anyway.
Also, this system or its equivalent has existed in various forms for 60 years, and it has never been used, despite significant national events such as 9/11. That's a precedent that Trump probably doesn't want to break, or else his re-election chances will go down to zero.
I would respond to the odds that that particular aspect of the wireless alert system would be abused, but we've already probably flirted with politics more than we should here.
The legislation enabling the system specifies that presidential alerts cannot be disabled. However, I did learn on a mailing list that disabling them is almost trivial if you have a rooted Android phone.
I keep the weather alerts enabled on my phone, but I wish I could limit it to just the worst-of-the-worst. (I want the short notice / immediate response alerts, like tornado warnings, even if the alert sound is too damned loud and annoying.
However, the system has seemed erratic about alerting when really needed. Last tornado warning alert came in towards the expiration of the warning.)
Quote from: vdeane on October 03, 2018, 01:20:53 PM
For example, if you get the "welcome to Canada" text when crossing the border, that is free, even though all other text messages would incur changes.
Are you referring to the spam text warning you to upgrade your data plan while in Canada?
That text usually locked up my old flip phone, which I had to turn off then back on again to return things to normal. On my new iPhone 8, I can just ignore it.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on October 03, 2018, 12:55:16 PM
The reason why people disable these warnings is due to inappropriate warnings sent out.
The reason I disable them is because I don't care about them. If I want weather alerts, then I'll turn on the radio. I never pay attention to the amber and silver and chartreuse and periwinkle alerts on VMSes while I'm driving, so I'm sure as heck not going to worry about them when I'm
not.
I just hate receiving things I never asked for. Junk mail, neighborhood newspapers, advertisements, weather alerts, messages from the President, etc, etc. If I want them, then I'll subscribe to them. Otherwise, leave me the heck alone.
And get off my lawn, y' dang whippersnappers!
Quote from: kphoger on October 03, 2018, 01:59:22 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on October 03, 2018, 12:55:16 PM
The reason why people disable these warnings is due to inappropriate warnings sent out.
The reason I disable them is because I don't care about them. If I want weather alerts, then I'll turn on the radio. I never pay attention to the amber and silver and chartreuse and periwinkle alerts on VMSes while I'm driving, so I'm sure as heck not going to worry about them when I'm not.
I just hate receiving things I never asked for. Junk mail, neighborhood newspapers, advertisements, weather alerts, messages from the President, etc, etc. If I want them, then I'll subscribe to them. Otherwise, leave me the heck alone.
And get off my lawn, y' dang whippersnappers!
That's the reason I have them turned off on my phones (personal and work). I have a multitude of sources from whence information comes. And I'm generally not interested in the AMBER Alerts, because they tend to show up in areas that are not geographically germane to me. People in this area routinely get them from West Virginia and Tennessee.
Just got it
Well crap, I was reading this and so didn't notice the time......
My wife's phone was on silent, and hers didn't make a sound.
I got the alert, but instead of the wonky tone, the phone acted like it was on vibrate - even though it isn't.
I had my phone on airplane mode and never received it after switching it off.
I got it both on my current phone, and on a phone I had just received in the mail and have not put onto a network yet, though it is on my WiFi.
My phone was on vibrate and it vibrated in the same cadence as the EAS alerts on radio and television.
I used to get AMBER/weather alerts on my phone, but I don't any more, and I didn't do anything to disable them. It suits me just fine, since they used to scare the bejeezus out of me, and I still get the weather alerts via The Weather Channel app.
Apropos of nothing, Do Not Disturb mode on the iPhone is a beautiful thing when you have a three-month-old baby and occasionally go to sleep at 7 pm.
Got it on my cell phone, then a few minutes later on my TV
Got it on my phone precisely at 2:18. Wife's phone received it at 2:29 (both AT&T).
I did not get one on my phone. I have Straight Talk wireless.
I got the alert (Android phone, not rooted, connected to wifi, Verizon).
In regard to the discussion upthread, I think much of the grief about this being a "Presidential" alert could have been avoided by using a different word or phrase that makes it clear the message has been sent out with appropriate authority and is critically important. The word "Presidential" by itself explains little but invites people to conclude the system is available at the whim of the sitting President, which legally is not the case.
With all the thought and advance planning that has gone into designing this system, one wonders why this issue was not addressed long ago.
Quote from: 02 Park Ave on October 02, 2018, 07:24:21 PM
There will be a CONELRAD-type test on your smart phone tomorrow, 03 October, afternoon.
My dumb phone got it, too.
Quote from: J N Winkler on October 03, 2018, 08:49:47 PM
Yes, it was a generic test message. I wonder if it represents a missed opportunity to inform the public as to just how grave an event would have to be to trigger a non-test message through this channel.
Bologna. I heard the alert at 2:18 pm on local AM radio WRVA 1140. No conspiracy theories involved.
I've done my best to remove political content from this thread to keep it going, since it's an interesting discussion - so many people received the alert late, or not at all. I got it right away along with a handful of other phones around the office, but not as many as I'd have expected. Some got it over the next 20 minutes or so, and many never got it. I wish I had a setting to disable these, but I do wonder what the cutoff is for who gets it or not. Something the government ought to look into if it's going to keep this system active.
(Re: politics: This system was established under previous administrations and just has to be tested every 3 years. That's it. Nothing political about the test, and let's not discuss the system itself since, as noted, it's never been used.)
Yeah they forgot us that work nights. I was blasted out of a deep sleep by this crap, 2 hours before I needed to get up.
They need to do things like this either mid morning or mid evening when the people who are getting up are up and the people who are going to bed haven' gone to sleep yet.
Quote from: Alps on October 03, 2018, 11:52:18 PM
so many people received the alert late, or not at all. I got it right away along with a handful of other phones around the office, but not as many as I'd have expected. Some got it over the next 20 minutes or so, and many never got it. I wish I had a setting to disable these, but I do wonder what the cutoff is for who gets it or not. Something the government ought to look into if it's going to keep this system active.
I either didn't get it or it didn't leave a notification. I was asleep (and my phone silenced) when it was supposed to be broadcast, and when I checked my phone this evening I didn't see anything.
Quote from: slorydn1 on October 03, 2018, 11:59:05 PM
Yeah they forgot us that work nights. I was blasted out of a deep sleep by this crap, 2 hours before I needed to get up.
They need to do things like this either mid morning or mid evening when the people who are getting up are up and the people who are going to bed haven' gone to sleep yet.
I'm with you. We're an unfortunate minority.
Quote from: Alps on October 03, 2018, 11:52:18 PMI wish I had a setting to disable these, but I do wonder what the cutoff is for who gets it or not.
Since the carriers are evidently not allowed to distribute phones that have the capability to block alerts at this level, there is no cutoff as such. Jailbreaking or rooting the phone to block them is a DIY solution with all the risks that that entails.
As for alerts arriving at inopportune times, I rarely have that problem since I do not have to be on call and, at home, do not sleep in the same room as my phone. I can't remember if I blocked NWS and amber alerts the last time I trawled through phone settings. I tend to find NWS alerts unhelpful even though I live in tornado country, and because I never use my phone when driving except for emergency map consults at stoplights, amber alerts usually arrive when I am off the road and have no opportunity to observe the license plate in question.
Quote from: slorydn1 on October 03, 2018, 11:59:05 PM
Yeah they forgot us that work nights. I was blasted out of a deep sleep by this crap, 2 hours before I needed to get up.
They need to do things like this either mid morning or mid evening when the people who are getting up are up and the people who are going to bed haven' gone to sleep yet.
There's no such thing as a "good" time to test the system. I am sorry the test took place at an inopportune time for you. My phone was on vibrate and did not emit any noises, just vibrations. I'm not sure what would have happened if it was on DND, and I highly recommend this mode or its equivalent on non-iPhones. I'm reluctant to use it in case a really important call or text or email comes in, but sometimes it's a really good thing to be shut off from the outside world.
My experience:
I have two iPhones, a personal phone (AT&T) and a work phone (Verizon, which roams off Appalachian Wireless in this area.)
Around 2:15, I turned both phones off, as I didn't want to be bothered.
At 2:18, I heard a bunch of phones going off around my office.
A few minutes later, I turned my phones back on. Immediately upon doing so, the alert came through on my AT&T phone. It did not on the Verizon phone.
Interestingly, the alerts are not sent to cellular-enabled iPads. Neither my personal iPad (AT&T) nor my work iPad (Verizon) sounded it.
I'm just still ticked that I forgot to turn my phone off. I would have left it off for one hour, till after the end of the transmission period. Now I guess I'll have to wait another three years to see if that works.....
Many of these comments about "Oh, I shut my phone off because I didn't want to get the message." demonstrate the sheer idiocy of giving such intense advance publicity for a test of an emergency alert system - I know, it wasn't so much the government, but the MSM latching on to the non-story. And, in a radio report this morning about "what did you think of the test?", somebody was quoted as saying "If it's a really big disaster like a full scale nuclear attack or an asteroid on a collision course with Earth, do we really want to be informed of our impending doom before hand?"
I should have qualified my comment upthread by saying that I have no idea whether my phone rang. I was aware the alert came through only because I have my phone sitting on a charger next to my computer, and I noticed the screen coming on and displaying the message. I don't even know whether the phone vibrated since it sits on top of a stack of optical disks, not on my computer desk.
I believe I have my phone configured to vibrate only. I say "believe" because the volume is dialed down as far as it will go on and I see just a "shaking phone" icon. If the phone is lying to me about being correctly configured not to ring, I will not know it unless I am told my phone is ringing in a setting where ringing phones are deemed socially unacceptable. Because I do not routinely carry my phone in contact with any part of my body, I tend not to receive alerts through vibrations and I try not to encourage people to expect me to respond immediately to texts unless there is at least some informal advance arrangement for me to be on call.
One of my points about the whole episode is that it's unnecessary. You can turn "Government Alerts" and "AMBER Alerts" off, but not these. The truth is that if something big happens, there are a plethora of other sources that are going to convey that information without having an alert from which you can't opt out. If another 9/11 happens, my social media feeds are going to go haywire, I'm going to get a bunch of work-related emails regarding the situation, and so on. That's why I opted out of the alerts that I could. I'm going to hear severe weather alerts from a number of sources, and the AMBER Alerts around here tend not to just be local ones, but from other states as well. There's little chance of a kid kidnapped in Sullivan County, Tenn., showing up in Lee County, Ky.
If the first notice a reasonably alert person who follows the news has of a major national emergency is a Presidential Alert on his or her phone, then that in itself is a serious problem, quite aside from the emergency itself.
All these comments about smart phones.
Who else heard it on the AM radio like I did?
Quote from: J N Winkler on October 04, 2018, 03:46:52 PM
If the first notice a reasonably alert person who follows the news has of a major national emergency is a Presidential Alert on his or her phone, then that in itself is a serious problem, quite aside from the emergency itself.
Doesn't seem that farfetched - I don't watch live TV or listen to the radio and I don't live on social media.
Quote from: Beltway on October 04, 2018, 03:54:06 PM
Who else heard it on the AM radio like I did?
I had my radio dial locked on 640 like a good boy scout–to no avail.
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTdLiG14zvwFAR7100PZrNR4d8Hfz4UH2ub_xE-bhulpjIZVMA1)
Quote from: J N Winkler on October 04, 2018, 03:46:52 PM
If the first notice a reasonably alert person who follows the news has of a major national emergency is a Presidential Alert on his or her phone, then that in itself is a serious problem, quite aside from the emergency itself.
I believe the purpose of the EAS suite is to inform the public of a national emergency when there isn't any time for news media to report on it.
Quote from: briantroutman on October 04, 2018, 04:29:34 PM
Quote from: Beltway on October 04, 2018, 03:54:06 PM
Who else heard it on the AM radio like I did?
I had my radio dial locked on 640 like a good boy scout–to no avail.
How major of a station is that? I heard it on WRVA 1140 which is regional with 50,000 watts day and night.
The CONELRAD system that used AM 640 and 1240 ended decades ago.
Quote from: J N Winkler on October 04, 2018, 03:46:52 PM
If the first notice a reasonably alert person who follows the news has of a major national emergency is a Presidential Alert on his or her phone, then that in itself is a serious problem, quite aside from the emergency itself.
Anyone who actually works at their job can easily have 1-2-4-8 hours outside of news and social media environment. Nights sleep is another few hours long blackout.
And there can easily be emergencies requiring a response time of less than an hour. Outside of war or terrorism scenarios: any big cloud moved by the wind (Chernobyl, Yellowstone, Bhopal) or emergency/fire on big industrial installation which may lead to a catastrophe (Halifax). Storm quickly changing direction and striking area under only a vague warning is possible - I believe that was part of Sandy's situation.
Quote from: J N Winkler on October 04, 2018, 03:46:52 PM
If the first notice a reasonably alert person who follows the news has of a major national emergency is a Presidential Alert on his or her phone, then that in itself is a serious problem, quite aside from the emergency itself.
I think certain extreme, unlikely, dire situations merit the interruption: "A rogue sub has launched missiles at your area. Take shelter immediately." "Zombies are real and headed your way." "Cuban and Russian paratroopers have snuck in. Go to the mountains Wolverines."
I can imagine the discussion when they were designing the system: "We need to get weather/disaster alerts to people who are otherwise unplugged." "We should give people the option as to whether they want/need tornado warnings." "Well, OK, but there should be some way to get messages that you can't opt out of...."
Quote from: Beltway on October 04, 2018, 03:54:06 PM
All these comments about smart phones.
Who else heard it on the AM radio like I did?
Came over the AM and FM stations co-workers listen to about a minute after I got the smartphone alert.
It came over WLAP-AM (630), to which I was listening via the iHeartRadio app, a few minutes after the phone alerts.
Quote from: abefroman329 on October 04, 2018, 04:06:48 PMDoesn't seem that farfetched - I don't watch live TV or listen to the radio and I don't live on social media.
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on October 05, 2018, 06:40:54 AMI believe the purpose of the EAS suite is to inform the public of a national emergency when there isn't any time for news media to report on it.
Quote from: kalvado on October 05, 2018, 08:53:24 AMAnyone who actually works at their job can easily have 1-2-4-8 hours outside of news and social media environment. Nights sleep is another few hours long blackout.
And there can easily be emergencies requiring a response time of less than an hour. Outside of war or terrorism scenarios: any big cloud moved by the wind (Chernobyl, Yellowstone, Bhopal) or emergency/fire on big industrial installation which may lead to a catastrophe (Halifax). Storm quickly changing direction and striking area under only a vague warning is possible - I believe that was part of Sandy's situation.
Quote from: MikeTheActuary on October 05, 2018, 09:35:39 AMI think certain extreme, unlikely, dire situations merit the interruption: "A rogue sub has launched missiles at your area. Take shelter immediately." "Zombies are real and headed your way." "Cuban and Russian paratroopers have snuck in. Go to the mountains Wolverines."
I can imagine the discussion when they were designing the system: "We need to get weather/disaster alerts to people who are otherwise unplugged." "We should give people the option as to whether they want/need tornado warnings." "Well, OK, but there should be some way to get messages that you can't opt out of...."
I was thinking in terms of a hypothetical scenario where, e.g., Little Rocket Man wakes up in the morning, presses the button completely on a whim, and the first the US public knows of it is a top-level EAS message saying the missiles are on their way. Would this be widely believed? I doubt it, because we rely on the news media as part of an extended early warning system. News reporting of growing international tensions cues us to the greater likelihood of an emergency requiring some form of announcement and response, and helps buttress the credibility of an EAS message when a specific event happens that requires its dispatch. Similarly, an announcement of a EF-5 tornado on the ground and headed toward a populated area (justifying the rarely-used Tornado Emergency alert) or a Category 3+ hurricane making landfall near a large city is typically preceded by wall-to-wall coverage of the developing storm system by news providers. This coverage is available over radio, TV, and the Internet other than through social media. (I am active on social media, but I never rely on it for news--I at least headline-surf on the websites of two newspapers daily.)
To cite some historical examples:
* Pearl Harbor was a surprise as to scope, timing, and battle tactics used, but was not completely unexpected since tensions were rising between the US and Japan and the US had just embargoed shipments of oil and rubber (both inputs for war matériel) to Japan
* The eruption of Mount St. Helens was a surprise only as to the specific day and time; USGS volcanologists were aware that it was imminent and evacuations had already been ordered and largely carried out
* Katrina (the inspiration for the current EAS) was forecast well in advance, with Interstates in the vicinity of New Orleans placed into contraflow operation about a week before landfall (most of the deaths were eventually traced to forms of poverty and social exclusion that include limited access to news)
The industrial disasters Kalvado cites (Bhopal, Chernobyl, Halifax; one could also cite Texas City, as well as examples of deliberate sabotage like Black Tom) are more likely to arrive as complete surprises because they are the result of safety lapses or covert action, both of which are carefully shielded from public view and media reporting. Most of them, however, have been very local in scope, and I am not sure even something like Halifax, Texas City, or Black Tom would attract a top-level EAS message under the rules currently in use.
"North Korea nukes Hawaii" is not a great example - unless Kim Jong Un posted some OBL-esque video to YouTube showing him pushing the red button, there'd be no scenario where people would find out through other channels before our government made an official announcement. If 9/11 happened today, we'd learn about the events through social media before we learned about them through other channels.
I think these push notifications would be a great way to get word about some sort of nationwide shelter-in-place order, or declaration of martial law, or evacuation order.
Quote from: abefroman329 on October 05, 2018, 01:06:21 PM
"North Korea nukes Hawaii" is not a great example - unless Kim Jong Un posted some OBL-esque video to YouTube showing him pushing the red button, there'd be no scenario where people would find out through other channels before our government made an official announcement.
"North Korea nukes Hawaii" is a great example of how the system can fail because previous news coverage has not primed the public to expect an emergency alert of some kind.
Quote from: abefroman329 on October 05, 2018, 01:06:21 PMI think these push notifications would be a great way to get word about some sort of nationwide shelter-in-place order, or declaration of martial law, or evacuation order.
Yes, and they offer wider possibilities for coordination of response and reaching segments of the community that are under-served by other media channels. But as a general rule, emergency alerts are better at eliciting the desired safety outcomes when the event being warned of is not a complete surprise.
"North Korea nukes Hawaii."
"Oops, we lied."
Happened not too long ago, more or less.
Quote from: hbelkins on October 05, 2018, 03:02:48 PM
"North Korea nukes Hawaii."
"Oops, we lied."
Happened not too long ago, more or less.
Yeah, that never happens on social media or in the MSM.
This is a bit of a tangent, but I have never understood the trend of getting one's news through social media rather than established news websites, Google Alerts for unusual topics, etc. I find it alienating to follow celebrities and other newsmakers on Facebook and Twitter, so I don't do it, and the Facebook friends whose news judgment I trust the most tend to be the least likely to share news stories.
Quote from: J N Winkler on October 05, 2018, 03:36:15 PM
This is a bit of a tangent, but I have never understood the trend of getting one's news through social media rather than established news websites, Google Alerts for unusual topics, etc. I find it alienating to follow celebrities and other newsmakers on Facebook and Twitter, so I don't do it, and the Facebook friends whose news judgment I trust the most tend to be the least likely to share news stories.
I just follow established, legitimate news outlets on FB. If there's a story I want to follow in real time, or it's something that's of too limited interest to show up on FB, I go to one of their websites.
Quote from: abefroman329 on October 05, 2018, 05:54:16 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on October 05, 2018, 03:36:15 PM
This is a bit of a tangent, but I have never understood the trend of getting one's news through social media rather than established news websites, Google Alerts for unusual topics, etc. I find it alienating to follow celebrities and other newsmakers on Facebook and Twitter, so I don't do it, and the Facebook friends whose news judgment I trust the most tend to be the least likely to share news stories.
I just follow established, legitimate news outlets on FB. If there's a story I want to follow in real time, or it's something that's of too limited interest to show up on FB, I go to one of their websites.
I make it a point to follow media outlets and reporters in my area on my work accounts, so I can quickly communicate with them if need be on an issue such as a road closure. WYMT-TV requires its reporters to be active on Facebook and Twitter, and they are quick to share/retweet breaking news items. Most of those are links to stories on their websites.
I just noticed that I didn't receive the alert until 14:32. Is this because I was in the 401 area code with an 860 phone?
Quote from: jon daly on October 07, 2018, 06:28:18 PM
I just noticed that I didn't receive the alert until 14:32. Is this because I was in the 401 area code with an 860 phone?
That shouldn't have mattered.
I wonder if it was my carrier. I am cheap and use Consumer Cellular.
I was visiting the Launching Pad in Wilmington. Between my phone, and the phone of the guy working there, the alert tone almost made be deaf.
Quote from: jon daly on October 08, 2018, 09:29:17 AM
I wonder if it was my carrier. I am cheap and use Consumer Cellular.
That could have been one of the non-participating networks.
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on October 03, 2018, 12:41:17 PM
Quote from: kphoger on October 03, 2018, 12:00:13 PM
Quote from: english si on October 03, 2018, 11:50:14 AM
It would surely be a failing of the system if foreign phones in the USA don't get it.
IMO, that depends on whether or not it can be guaranteed foreign visitors won't be charged for receiving an international text message.
The alerts aren't pushed via SMS, but by a separate communications protocol. Any global-ready device should receive the alert.
He says would have got it, but he was at a Broadway show, and they very specifically told everyone to completely turn off their phones because of the CONELRAD message, so he didn't, nor did anyone else in that theatre audience.
Quote from: english si on October 08, 2018, 06:14:41 PM
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on October 03, 2018, 12:41:17 PM
Quote from: kphoger on October 03, 2018, 12:00:13 PM
Quote from: english si on October 03, 2018, 11:50:14 AM
It would surely be a failing of the system if foreign phones in the USA don't get it.
IMO, that depends on whether or not it can be guaranteed foreign visitors won't be charged for receiving an international text message.
The alerts aren't pushed via SMS, but by a separate communications protocol. Any global-ready device should receive the alert.
He says would have got it, but he was at a Broadway show, and they very specifically told everyone to completely turn off their phones because of the CONELRAD message, so he didn't, nor did anyone else in that theatre audience.
Airplane Mode, not connected to a WiFi, probably would have sufficed. I'm not 100% sure you can completely shut off an iPhone.
Quote from: abefroman329 on October 08, 2018, 07:01:05 PM
...
Airplane Mode, not connected to a WiFi, probably would have sufficed. I'm not 100% sure you can completely shut off an iPhone.
Drain the battery :P
Yes you can.
Quote from: SSOWorld on October 08, 2018, 07:33:32 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on October 08, 2018, 07:01:05 PM
...
Airplane Mode, not connected to a WiFi, probably would have sufficed. I'm not 100% sure you can completely shut off an iPhone.
Drain the battery :P
Yes you can.
That is the only scenario in which I'm 100% sure my iPhone was completely shut off.
Quote from: abefroman329 on October 08, 2018, 07:52:24 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on October 08, 2018, 07:33:32 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on October 08, 2018, 07:01:05 PM
...
Airplane Mode, not connected to a WiFi, probably would have sufficed. I'm not 100% sure you can completely shut off an iPhone.
Drain the battery :P
Yes you can.
That is the only scenario in which I'm 100% sure my iPhone was completely shut off.
What about holding the power button and then "swipe to power off"?
Quote from: US 89 on October 08, 2018, 08:04:28 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on October 08, 2018, 07:52:24 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on October 08, 2018, 07:33:32 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on October 08, 2018, 07:01:05 PM
...
Airplane Mode, not connected to a WiFi, probably would have sufficed. I'm not 100% sure you can completely shut off an iPhone.
Drain the battery :P
Yes you can.
That is the only scenario in which I'm 100% sure my iPhone was completely shut off.
What about holding the power button and then "swipe to power off"?
In a very intangible sense, it just doesn't
feel like the phone is actually turned off when I do that. It's not like it was with dumbphones, where there was an on/off switch, or a blank screen meant it was turned off (as opposed to simply being locked).
Quote from: jon daly on October 08, 2018, 09:29:17 AM
I wonder if it was my carrier. I am cheap and use Consumer Cellular.
I brought my own unlocked Nokia dumbphone to Consumer Cellular a few years ago. My phone sounded-off at the time they said it would. I do not have a message plan. so the only thing that showed up on the screen was 'OK' and an 'X', with no other message.