The slow but steady process to six lane I-65 through Kentucky continues. After this widening there will be 43 or so miles left to do. I did notice the Bowling Green Engineer wasn't playing nice with KYTC for paving further north instead of widening. I really like how Kentucky does it 6 laning by total rebuilds and making the highway nice for many years instead of just adding a lane and leaving other problems alone.
http://bgdailynews.com/articles/2010/11/05/news/news4.txt
Did some further checking and it appears Kentucky has already identfied funding for mile marker 48 to 53 for the next year or so. That would leave 38 miles to go for the widening project.
That's some aggressive widening there. I can think of many stretches of 4-lane freeway that have far more traffic than these stretches of I-65 reportedly do.
Seems like these days, the attitude that GA has had regarding widening I-75 (basically "Get 'er done!"), it seems KY has a similar attitude towards widening I-75, I-65, and soon I-64 b/w Louisville and Lexington.
I also seem to recall that OH is taking a similar approach to I-75 north of Dayton, and possibly all of I-71?
The only drawback to all of KY's widening is that it will all end at the TN state line for the foreseeable future, since I do not recall even seeing funding for studies for widening I-65 south into Nashville or I-75 south into Knoxville.
^^^
Yeah, we're lucky to get the widening from TN 96 (Exit 65) to TN 840 (Exit 59)!
You mean states that get stuff done instead of doing pretty study after study about upgrading their main Interstate lifelanes. Yes that means you MISSOURI and your endless studies about I-70. Yes it takes money and time but it can be done on a 15-20 year plan as Kentucky is doing with I-65 and I-75. I see Kentucky done with I-65 six laning by 2020 or so.
Quote from: wriddle082 on November 08, 2010, 05:48:21 PM
Seems like these days, the attitude that GA has had regarding widening I-75 (basically "Get 'er done!"), it seems KY has a similar attitude towards widening I-75, I-65, and soon I-64 b/w Louisville and Lexington.
I also seem to recall that OH is taking a similar approach to I-75 north of Dayton, and possibly all of I-71?
The only drawback to all of KY's widening is that it will all end at the TN state line for the foreseeable future, since I do not recall even seeing funding for studies for widening I-65 south into Nashville or I-75 south into Knoxville.
Kentucky's doing much of its interstate widening through the use of GARVEE Bonds. Of course this will probably severely curtail the number of federally funded projects Kentucky can do once all the widening is completed.
I can only imagine how much it would cost to widen I-75 across Jellico Mountain. Even putting a truck lane on the uphill grades would be insanely expensive.
Quote from: hbelkins on November 08, 2010, 10:25:17 PM
I can only imagine how much it would cost to widen I-75 across Jellico Mountain. Even putting a truck lane on the uphill grades would be insanely expensive.
They would have no choice but to blast into the mountain to build the two additional lanes (really should be three so there would be four uphill southbound and three downhill northbound) since it's a pretty steep dropoff from the right edge of the southbound lanes. Then there is the geology issue (rock layers parallel to slope instead of perpendicular).
They really should have built I-75 in the valley that TN 297 lies in, or closer to US 25W.
QuoteKentucky's doing much of its interstate widening through the use of GARVEE Bonds. Of course this will probably severely curtail the number of federally funded projects Kentucky can do once all the widening is completed.
Indeed. To do so on such a large scale, Kentucky is basically putting itself into a position where a large percentage (if not most) of its future Federal highway dollars will be going back to pay off the GARVEE Bonds. It's not much different than other heavy use of bonding. If anyone needs an object lesson in what heavy bonding use will do to your transportation budget, just look at PennDOT from around 25-30 years ago or NJDOT today.
Quote from: wriddle082 on November 09, 2010, 10:54:24 PM
uld have built I-75 in the valley that TN 297 lies in, or closer to US 25W.
That seems like it would have been smarter. I wonder what the reasoning was for going onto Jellico Mountain in the first place?
Kentucky used 440 million of GARVEE bonds in 06-07 to finance I-75, I-65 and I-64 widening in 06-08. New widening projects I think aren't using GARVEE bonds.
http://www.ops.fhwa.dot.gov/freight/publications/freightfinancing/sect3.htm
Quote from: ShawnP on November 10, 2010, 04:59:34 PM
Kentucky used 440 million of GARVEE bonds in 06-07 to finance I-75, I-65 and I-64 widening in 06-08. New widening projects I think aren't using GARVEE bonds.
http://www.ops.fhwa.dot.gov/freight/publications/freightfinancing/sect3.htm
The document formerly known as the six-year plan used to list the GARVEE projects. Not sure if the current document lists any or not. I haven't looked at it either in print or online for quite some time.
Pages 10-12 provide FY11-12 GARVEE paybacks. Also HB you said Mountain Parkway is being widened. What Mile Marker is it? Sorry forgot where you said. Go CATS.
http://transportation.ky.gov/progmgmt/2010hwyplan/default.html
Quote from: ShawnP on November 17, 2010, 06:58:13 PM
Pages 10-12 provide FY11-12 GARVEE paybacks. Also HB you said Mountain Parkway is being widened. What Mile Marker is it? Sorry forgot where you said. Go CATS.
http://transportation.ky.gov/progmgmt/2010hwyplan/default.html
MM 43-46 is currently under construction as a design-build.
The stretch from approximately MM 56 to MM 75 is under study. A public meeting was held on the project in summer 2009.
Not from the mountains here but what does the public have to say about it?
Quote from: ShawnP on November 17, 2010, 09:31:11 PM
Not from the mountains here but what does the public have to say about it?
They're all for it. There is a great clamor in Pike, Johnson and Floyd (and to a lesser extent, Martin and Magoffin) for the Mountain Parkway to be four-laned.
Would there be support to retoll to help with the widening? Given the money hogs that the Bridges Project, Brent Spence and I-69 bridge will be for Kentucky not much else to go around for needed projects like said widening.
So what will the feddies and Kentucky cook up? Will have to be inovative as the Louisville Bridges Project is eating up most of the state road budget over the next few years.
http://bgdailynews.com/articles/2011/02/06/news/news3.txt
Quote from: ShawnP on November 18, 2010, 09:14:37 PM
Would there be support to retoll to help with the widening?
Not only no, but hell no.
Guess you're waiting your turn for widening money, then...
It's Eastern Kentucky not like there is much economic devlopment after all.
When the tolls came off the Mountain Parkway in the mid 1980s, the idea was floated to keep tolls on the route to pay for maintenance. The negative response from eastern Kentucky was overwhelming. The majority of the population was adamant that the promise had been made that the tolls would be removed once the bonds were paid off and the politicians had darn well better keep that promise.
The people there see examples such as that over the last 15 years the entire length of US 68/KY 80 from Bowling Green west to I-24 has been widened from two to four lanes and wonder why they can't get their roads improved too.
Do these people understand that 68/80 is also A) flatter, B) at-grade, and as a result of both is C) much less expensive?
Do they also understand and accept that, by taking tolls off the Mountain Pkwy, KYTC has been on the hook for maintenance and upkeep of a freeway facility? If not, they really don't have a leg to stand on.
Course, if KYTC didn't have a gazillion 3- and 4-digit routes to maintain, they'd probably have a little more money available for things like improving the Mountain Pkwy or widening I-65...
Quote from: froggie on February 08, 2011, 07:07:58 PM
Course, if KYTC didn't have a gazillion 3- and 4-digit routes to maintain, they'd probably have a little more money available for things like improving the Mountain Pkwy or widening I-65...
Unfortunately, in a relatively poor rural state, the counties don't have a lot of money to maintain those roads.
That's a BS answer, IMO. Alabama, Mississippi, and Arkansas are just as poor and rural, and yet they manage to do it. Alabama manages to do it quite well, for that matter...
Back to the original topic. Can Kentucky come up with the money to finish those last 33 miles (funding/construction approved to MM58 at Horse Cave)? I say yes but it might be 2017 to 2019 until final completion. The horrific crossovers over the years have provided the Political will for politicians to get it done. As I have said before I really like Kentucky's road building when it comes to six laning. If you haven't been thru any new six laning by Kentucky your missing some nice road work. Kentucky totally rebuilds the road to keep it ready for many more years of traffic. It's not a cheapie just add on a lane type of road work. They add the lane plus Jersey Barriers. Then redo the old lanes plus upgrade shoulders, exits and bridges. Costs more upfront but in the long run it's cheaper to build upfront than having to redo a few years down the road.
I stole this from HB's facebook page, but here is an intriguing proposal (http://www.bgdailynews.com/articles/2011/02/08/news/news2.txt) for a private company to help finance the remaining sections of I-65 widening. They would foot the bill and Kentucky would pay $50 million per year with no interest afterward.
I see some potential contracting and color of money issues with this, but I hope that it can work. It almost sounds like a tax increment financing district that cities use to provide infrastructure upgrades before a developer develops the land.
I would trust Scotty's as they are a quality construction company. If Scotty's wants to help then go for it Kentucky. I-65 would be a top notch road from Elizabethtown south.
Quote from: froggie on February 08, 2011, 10:38:52 PM
That's a BS answer, IMO. Alabama, Mississippi, and Arkansas are just as poor and rural, and yet they manage to do it. Alabama manages to do it quite well, for that matter...
If there's anything they do well, it's that. AL (both county and ALDOT) does not let its roads fall into disrepair all that much. That is, excepting Jefferson County (
Thanks, Larry! We
really appreciate it! :angry: )
Wasn't a cross over. A horrific accident claimed three lives at MM 86 or so this morning. I-65 is so dangerous from E-town to Bowling Green.
Removed incorrect link
That video is of an aircraft carrier at sea.
I'm not sure why there are so many wrecks on I-65. I'd much rather drive the two-lane I-65 than the three-lane newer sections of I-75.
Looks like KTC is set to let a contract to widen another four miles of I-65 in Barren County to six lanes:
http://transportation.ky.gov/Construction-Procurement/Pages/lettings.aspx?letting=10/21/2011
Should be a easy stretch as not many bridges and overpasses. One step at a time.
Good news as this could open 15-20 more miles of 6 laning.
It also sets aside $143 million to continue widening a stretch of Interstate 65 north of Bowling Green that has been plagued by accidents.
http://www.courier-journal.com/article/2012301170087
Any ideals how many more miles this will get Kentucky along on six laning? My guess is from exit 58 to exit 71. This would leave 20 miles left.
I haven't read any of the news coverage yet, and I got a hard copy of the highway plan today but obviously haven't read it, and I also try to avoid listening to anything the governor says out of extreme dislike for him, but I thought I heard that he had all of I-65 north to E-town in the plan.
This article (http://www.wlky.com/r/30253099/detail.html) indicates that the 2012 Recommended Highway Plan (http://transportation.ky.gov/program-Management/pages/2012-recommended-highway-plan.aspx) aims to complete the I-65 widening over the next six years:
Quote
The governor's plan provides $491.4 million over six years to complete the widening of I-65 in Barren, Hart, LaRue and Hardin counties. When completed, the heavily traveled corridor will be six lanes wide from the Tennessee border to the Ohio River at Louisville.
Indiana needs to get on board with this idea. Tired of being stuck doing 68 in the left lane because a slow truck is passing a really slow truck.
Quote from: cabiness42 on January 20, 2012, 09:54:05 AM
Indiana needs to get on board with this idea. Tired of being stuck doing 68 in the left lane because a slow truck is passing a really slow truck.
or they could just start pulling over trucks for impeding, and even get the necessary funds to build the third lane.
Love the Race of the Turtles...........
Quote from: ShawnP on January 20, 2012, 03:10:29 PM
Love the Race of the Turtles...........
it is the #1 cause of congestion on rural freeways.
if you're not passing by a speed differential of at least 10mph, you deserve a citation.
if you don't want to go, stay home.
On a side note...........noticed I-64 getting another 5 miles of six lanning eastwards in Shelby County. Also the six year plan includes rebuilding of some bridges to six lanes on I-64. Slowly but surely I-64 will be six lanes from Lexington to Louisville.
Update........
http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20120206/BUSINESS/302060067/highway-safety-munfordville-crash?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|Home
So this means that eventually all of I-65 in KY will be six lanes or more? Nice!
Quote from: Henry on February 07, 2012, 10:35:13 AM
So this means that eventually all of I-65 in KY will be six lanes or more? Nice!
Kentucky really seems to be the nest Georgia in terms of 6-lane widening significant stretches of rural interstate. I-75 is/will soon be at least six through lanes from Corbin all the way to Covington (with an exception being the I-64 northern split in Lexington). I-65 will definitely be six through lanes the whole way through the state. And I-64 will one day be six lanes between Louisville and Lexington.
Also, they're probably going to have to do something about the brand new I-24/69 duplex in Western KY one of these days.
Now if only they would give a little TLC to I-71...
*AND* If only TN would take care of the rest of I-65 north of Nashville to the KY line...
^ Tennessee doesn't seem to be really big on widening rural interstates, it seems. :(
TN doesn't seem to be big on doing much work lately..........
Quote from: ShawnP on February 08, 2012, 09:37:37 AM
TN doesn't seem to be big on doing much work lately..........
That's true these days. They've pretty much "finished" Knoxville. They've "finished" most of Nashville proper. They're finishing TN 840. Memphis will have a bit of work in the years to come, with I-269 and the I-55/Crump Blvd interchange rebuild. Chattanooga has US 27 work on the horizon.
One thing you can count on them always doing in TN, however, is regular resurfacing. Kinda makes me wish they'd do that more often in SC, and definitely up here in WI where work currently has me stationed.
^^^
That about sums it up.
Though Tdot is widening the Mack Hatcher bypass of Franklin from 2 to 4 lanes between US 31 on the north side and TN 96.
TN 840 is not finished...........it's about halfway done.
Not so fast............
http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20120316/NEWS01/303160069/House-road-plan-deletes-65-widening-funds-Hart
My understanding is the House and Senate have not decided on the road budget yet. This could get added back in, as the leaders of the two chambers will be negotiating in the interim between the last voting day of the session and the "veto day" coming up later.
I hope it is put back but not much hope. NO doubt that it is badly needed as this area of I-65 has had some horrific crashes thru the years.
Good article with some information............a new section is going to bid in October for Horse Cave to Munfordville.
http://www.bgdailynews.com/news/local/wider-i--cuts-down-on-accidents/article_64e6eedf-e30f-5e5a-8a3a-2e7840f495a9.html
Road widening started for MM 58-65. Lots of info on a possible speed up of Six Lanning to E-town.
http://m.bgdailynews.com/news/widening-work-begins-on-newest-section-of-i/article_81729857-0271-571c-9044-22a86e0c7a8d.html?mode=jqm
Went thru this week and there is great progress North of exit 43. Completed to MM53 and Under construction from MM53-65. I know it was a horrific sad crash a few years ago but the Amish Bus tragedy in the long run will save lives. Kentucky could ignore or go slow on I-65 six lanes before this accident but the accident has shown folks in Frankfort and DC just how dangerous this stretch of road is without six lanes. Kentucky is doing their regular complete rebuild with better exits, drainage, landscaping, bridges, overpasses and even rock work in areas. The sections that are complete are a joy to drive on with lots of room and yes more safety features.
The bus accident didn't have anything to do with the number of lanes. It was a median crossover wreck.
I've never felt that the stretch of I-65 between E-town and Bowling Green was particularly dangerous.
Quote from: hbelkins on December 27, 2013, 09:01:13 PM
The bus accident didn't have anything to do with the number of lanes. It was a median crossover wreck.
I've never felt that the stretch of I-65 between E-town and Bowling Green was particularly dangerous.
There always seems to be a lot of accidents on it though. Last time I drove down there there were 3 accidents nearly in a row. I wound up just taking US 31 all the way down even though it was a lot slower and practically the same distance.
I think it's more of the people that drive down it than the road itself. It's nice when you get that stretch all to yourself, but if you hit a lot of trucks they all like to do roughly 90. It's kinda ridiculous. Maybe that's just my luck.
I drove 65 north from Tennessee to Elizabethtown on Tuesday, and the 6 laning was done from the TN line all the way to about MM 70 or so, where a long construction zone started. At that point the NB side was split into 2 separate single lanes on either side of the main jersey barrier, with the left one having no access to exits (which was warned by a portable VMS prior to the split). That configuration lasted for 10 miles or so before the 2 lanes came back together for the remainder of the construction zone, which ended just before the exits for E-town.
It was dark, so I couldn't really see how much progress had been made in this area.
Quote from: Buck87 on January 14, 2016, 11:57:00 AM
I drove 65 north from Tennessee to Elizabethtown on Tuesday, and the 6 laning was done from the TN line all the way to about MM 70 or so, where a long construction zone started. At that point the NB side was split into 2 separate single lanes on either side of the main jersey barrier, with the left one having no access to exits (which was warned by a portable VMS prior to the split). That configuration lasted for 10 miles or so before the 2 lanes came back together for the remainder of the construction zone, which ended just before the exits for E-town.
It was dark, so I couldn't really see how much progress had been made in this area.
That construction configuration has been very common during the widening projects along I-65.
Just curious, how many more miles is there left to widen to 3 lanes?
Quote from: mvak36 on January 14, 2016, 04:12:05 PM
Just curious, how many more miles is there left to widen to 3 lanes?
I think that is the last stretch, from Bowling Green down to the state line.
Quote from: SteveG1988 on January 14, 2016, 09:08:46 PM
Quote from: mvak36 on January 14, 2016, 04:12:05 PM
Just curious, how many more miles is there left to widen to 3 lanes?
I think that is the last stretch, from Bowling Green down to the state line.
Pretty sure that part is done, at least the northbound lanes were. I remember getting off at the Kentucky welcome center Tuesday night after 20 miles of frustration due to trucks passing trucks on the 4 lane portion north of Nashville, and then being very relieved to see 3 lanes when I got back on.
The part they're currently working on is south of Etown.
The only parts that aren't six lanes are under construction, or literally within a 1/4 mile (if that much) of the Tennessee state line. I guess technically part of the Lincoln Bridge heading north to Indiana is only two lanes due to the exit only lane for Exit 0, but that is also less than a mile long.
Quote from: tidecat on January 15, 2016, 08:54:06 PM
The only parts that aren't six lanes are under construction, or literally within a 1/4 mile (if that much) of the Tennessee state line. I guess technically part of the Lincoln Bridge heading north to Indiana is only two lanes due to the exit only lane for Exit 0, but that is also less than a mile long.
Everything between Bowling Green and the Tennessee State line is six lanes. The new interchange that is under construction for TN 109 at the state line will extend the six lanes just a little bit south into Tennessee.
Speaking of that area, what's up with the TN/KY border there? Anyone know why it jogs down to a corner centered right on 31W, essentially giving KY a triangle of land that would otherwise be part of TN?
Quote from: Buck87 on January 19, 2016, 10:00:14 AM
Speaking of that area, what's up with the TN/KY border there? Anyone know why it jogs down to a corner centered right on 31W, essentially giving KY a triangle of land that would otherwise be part of TN?
http://www.tnhistoryforkids.org/geography/bordernorth
Quote from: TNHistory for kids
Finally, I have always wondered why the Kentucky-Tennessee border dips down in Robertson County, Tennessee, and Simpson County, Kentucky (coincidentally, where Interstate 65 is). "I've always heard that it was called "˜dueling ground' because it was a no man's land between the two states where people could go to duel and avoid laws against it," says my friend Robert Brandt, author of the fascinating Compass American Guides Tennessee.
As it turns out, the so-called "Simpson County Offset" was caused by human error. When Walker and Smith surveyed this part of the state in December 1779 and January 1780, they were able to do almost no astronomical observations in this part of the state due to cloudy weather. Also, Walker later noted, "there was some iron ore in that vicinity, which deflected the needle of the compass."
By 1830 it became obvious that the line was in the wrong place, which is why surveyors were sent to the area to redraw the line. Those surveyors determined about where the boundary line was supposed to be but wisely recommended in their report that the official border be left where it was. "Let Tennessee yield to Kentucky her claim to the triangular territory and let Kentucky yield to Tennessee her claim on the triangular territory in dispute," they recommended, and the state's agreed.
However, this didn't settle the matter. A generation after this survey, a Robertson County settler named Middleton continued to claim that 101 acres of his property that protruded into Kentucky was rightfully in Tennessee. Two surveyors sent to the area to settle the dispute in 1859 agreed with him, which is why a rectangular piece of land about 100 acres in size protrudes northward into Kentucky.
"There are many hearsay stories claiming they were offered a barrel of whiskey to survey around the Middleton offset, and allow it to become part of the state of Tennessee," Sames' book points out.
Any update on the remaining section that was under construction this time last year?
Quote from: Buck87 on February 09, 2017, 04:06:28 PM
Any update on the remaining section that was under construction this time last year?
From what I can remember from driving that way in late October 2016, the widening is complete to Exit 65, and construction is underway to finish the widening to Elizabethtown.
Drove 65 this weekend, the road is now six lanes south of exit 71, leaving about 20 miles left of construction. Concrete walls have been installed all the way to the Western KY Pkwy. I would say the widening will be complete early to mid next year.
Riding on I-65 through Kentucky as I type this (no, I'm not driving). Still a fair amount of construction between Elizabethtown and Bowling Green.
Almost done.
My original 2017-19 prediction was spot on.
Next big project is a new exit in Bullitt County.
8 lanes from South of the Snyder to Lebanon Junction is on the long range radar. With heavy truck traffic plus crumbling 35 year old concrete it's time.
Will be a 400-500 million slow slog.
Duh the link.
http://www.thenewsenterprise.com/news/local/i--widening-project-wrapping-up/article_76fec250-7e5f-59df-8412-d43f224288c8.html
Quote from: ShawnP on December 23, 2018, 11:19:04 AM
Next big project is a new exit in Bullitt County.
This, plus the big news last week that the northern Kentucky outer loop is back on the radar, plus Kentucky's insistence on using BUILD grant money for DDIs in NKY instead of new construction in rural areas, is more proof that someone just doesn't get it. They continue to spend money on places that already have good transportation infrastructure and booming economies and withhold it from places that still rely on century-old roads to connect county seats and are seeing the economic renaissance pass them by.
Quote from: JREwing78 on November 06, 2010, 03:12:19 PM
That's some aggressive widening there. I can think of many stretches of 4-lane freeway that have far more traffic than these stretches of I-65 reportedly do.
I'd be interested in knowing what the volumes are on these stretches. I'm sure much of the Thruway has higher volumes.
^ Similar volumes, but 65 has a much higher truck percentage.
What is considered high for a truck percentage? Surely not more than 20%-25%. My guess for the Thruway (Albany to Buffalo) would be about 10% to 12%.
I have never been on I-65 in Kentucky, but if I-75 is any indication, the six-laning will bring sighs of relief to those who use it regularly.
The 6 lane sections are very nice.
The horrific crosdover that killed 10 provided the political will to get it done.
Agree on the overbuild but it was a 1960's Interstate that wasn't very safe.
Quote from: webny99What is considered high for a truck percentage? Surely not more than 20%-25%. My guess for the Thruway (Albany to Buffalo) would be about 10% to 12%.
Typical truck percentages on a national level are in the 10-15% range. The Highway Capacity Manual assumes 10% in the absence of hard data. Above 20% is generally considered high. Some Interstate segments reach above 40%, parts of I-81 in Virginia being one example.
Comparing the Thruway to I-65 KY, here's some sample points. Thruway numbers are from 2016, Kentucky numbers from 2017 unless otherwise noted:
Thruway east of Williamsville (NY 78): 42,903 AADT, 21% trucks
Thruway west of I-390: 29,618 AADT, 17% trucks
Thruway east of I-490: 61,463 AADT, 5.5% trucks
Thruway east of I-481: 40,377 AADT, 15.9% trucks
Thruway east of I-790/Utica: 24,222 AADT, 10.9% trucks
Thruway east of Amsterdam (NY 30): 29,548, 9.1% trucks
I-65 near Milepost 10 (north of KY 100): 48,813 AADT, 39.4% trucks
I-65 near Bowling Green (north of US 231): 60,216 AADT, 29.1% trucks
I-65 north of the Cumberland Parkway: 40,622 AADT, 35.2% trucks
I-65 north of Munfordville: 40,285 AADT, 46.5% trucks
I-65 south of Elizabethtown (2015 volume): 37,597 AADT, 36.6% trucks
The lowest AADT volume I could find on I-65 between the Tennessee line and Elizabethtown was 33,427 near Upton (2014 volume). Much of the Thruway (around Rochester, from I-81 to I-481 in Syracuse, and Oneida to I-88) is lower than that...upwards of 10K lower. On a related note, the lowest truck percentage I found on I-65 is 23.8% near Bowling Green (on a segment that had 61K AADT). The highest truck percentage I found on the Thruway was 23%.
Quote from: hbelkins on December 23, 2018, 06:19:30 PM
This, plus the big news last week that the northern Kentucky outer loop is back on the radar, plus Kentucky's insistence on using BUILD grant money for DDIs in NKY instead of new construction in rural areas, is more proof that someone just doesn't get it. They continue to spend money on places that already have good transportation infrastructure and booming economies and withhold it from places that still rely on century-old roads to connect county seats and are seeing the economic renaissance pass them by.
I agree with the sentiment, but those DDI's along I-75 are in the fastest growing areas of the state - and some of the fastest growing areas in the Mid-Atlantic. It's hardly rural anymore and traffic is chronically congested because it's still pretty much the original interchange with minimal improvements. I'd agree that other solutions could be explored - such as a modified diamond/loop interchange, controlled access on both sides of the interstate, and improved local routes (e.g. US 25). And with these awards being highly competitive, it would make sense for Kentucky to submit proposals that would score well. Two rebuilt interchanges in fast growing areas will always score better than say, completing the KY 15 bypass around Jackson that will hardly get 10,000 AADT.
Quote from: froggie on December 26, 2018, 09:50:32 PM
Quote from: webny99What is considered high for a truck percentage? Surely not more than 20%-25%. My guess for the Thruway (Albany to Buffalo) would be about 10% to 12%.
Typical truck percentages on a national level are in the 10-15% range. The Highway Capacity Manual assumes 10% in the absence of hard data. Above 20% is generally considered high. Some Interstate segments reach above 40%, parts of I-81 in Virginia being one example.
Thanks! Not a bad guess for a shot in the dark! ;-)
Quote from: froggie on December 26, 2018, 09:50:32 PMComparing the Thruway to I-65 KY, here's some sample points. Thruway numbers are from 2016, Kentucky numbers from 2017 unless otherwise noted
Where do you find all these numbers (if you don't mind me asking)?
I struggle to even find Thruway
volume counts in anything that's publicly available, much less truck percentages.
Everything maintained by NYSTA never seems to have recent counts uploaded to the Traffic Data Viewer. Just as one example, the aforementioned stretch from Exit 44 (NY 332) to Exit 45 (I-490) shows 57K on the TDV, while your more recent figures have that stretch at 61K.
Just for interest's sake, I extrapolated the first and last of your data points in each data set:
I-90: 9,009 trucks/33,893 cars = 42,903 total
I-65: 19,232 trucks/29,580 cars = 48,813 total
I-90: 2,680 trucks/26,778 cars = 29,458 total
I-65: 13,760 trucks/23,836 cars = 37,597 total
That actually makes I-65 pretty impressive, by my standards. It helps explain why trucks tend to create bottlenecks on the Thruway even when there is less of them; just more cars trying to get by. I can't imagine what the Thruway would be like with triple, or even double, the truck volume.
Quote from: froggie on December 26, 2018, 09:50:32 PMThe lowest AADT volume I could find on I-65 between the Tennessee line and Elizabethtown was 33,427 near Upton (2014 volume). Much of the Thruway (around Rochester, from I-81 to I-481 in Syracuse, and Oneida to I-88) is lower than that...upwards of 10K lower. On a related note, the lowest truck percentage I found on I-65 is 23.8% near Bowling Green (on a segment that had 61K AADT). The highest truck percentage I found on the Thruway was 23%.
With one exception (that being Exit 46 (I-390) to Exit 47 (I-490)), the entire Thruway carries at least 30K between Buffalo and Syracuse. Most stretches are closer to 40K. Granted, volumes are lower than that through the Mohawk Valley, but that's because there's less long-distance traffic. Everyone from Western New York and Ontario bound for the East Coast heads south at Syracuse, if not sooner.
Case in point, the only stretch of the Thruway with volumes below 23K (using 33K - 10) is through the Mohawk Valley from Exit 27 (NY 30) to Exit 32 (NY 233). That entire stretch runs between 21K and 23K, meaning the mainline Thruway never falls below 20K. Again, though, I'd be interested in some more recent counts, given the above discrepancy.
Quote from: seicer on December 26, 2018, 09:59:07 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on December 23, 2018, 06:19:30 PM
This, plus the big news last week that the northern Kentucky outer loop is back on the radar, plus Kentucky's insistence on using BUILD grant money for DDIs in NKY instead of new construction in rural areas, is more proof that someone just doesn't get it. They continue to spend money on places that already have good transportation infrastructure and booming economies and withhold it from places that still rely on century-old roads to connect county seats and are seeing the economic renaissance pass them by.
I agree with the sentiment, but those DDI's along I-75 are in the fastest growing areas of the state - and some of the fastest growing areas in the Mid-Atlantic. It's hardly rural anymore and traffic is chronically congested because it's still pretty much the original interchange with minimal improvements. I'd agree that other solutions could be explored - such as a modified diamond/loop interchange, controlled access on both sides of the interstate, and improved local routes (e.g. US 25). And with these awards being highly competitive, it would make sense for Kentucky to submit proposals that would score well. Two rebuilt interchanges in fast growing areas will always score better than say, completing the KY 15 bypass around Jackson that will hardly get 10,000 AADT.
The two DDIs were basically "shovel-ready" projects that had gotten pushed back due to lack of state funding.
My personal opinion is that too many agencies put too much of an emphasis on congestion mitigation.
Quote from: webny99 on December 27, 2018, 08:48:13 AM
Where do you find all these numbers (if you don't mind me asking)?
For Kentucky, http://maps.kytc.ky.gov/photolog/?config=TrafficCounts
^^ HB posted the Kentucky locations. I got the 2016 NYS data from NYSDOT's Traffic Volume Report PDF. It's on the NYSDOT website.
Quote from: froggie on December 27, 2018, 01:21:06 PM
^^ HB posted the Kentucky locations. I got the 2016 NYS data from NYSDOT's Traffic Volume Report PDF. It's on the NYSDOT website.
Found it. Thank you, sir. I will no longer be bored this evening with that dataset to study! :nod: