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US 191 Morenci Reroute (Arizona)

Started by JKRhodes, March 10, 2015, 12:39:15 AM

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JKRhodes

Word has officially been released from ADOT of plans to reroute US Highway 191 around the Morenci Mine in Eastern Arizona. There are currently about 14 miles designated as "temporary" which wind through the pits and dumps of the mine. Minor reroutes do occur from time to time in order to accommodate mining operations, and flaggers occasionally block traffic for mine pit blasting, and to allow large equipment to cross the road as needed.

I've known about the proposal for a few years now since I work in the mine, but now that ADOT has made it public, I am interested to see how soon the project will move forward and what the ultimate routing will be. I know a portion of the highway currently sits on a large ridge which is flanked by deep pits on both sides, and has a large copper deposit underneath it.

If the reroute ultimately bypasses the mine altogether as the article states, then my guess is that the highway will go due north at the Train station, Following the San Francisco River north for about 15 miles before making a westerly jog along Sardine Creek to climb up the mountain and tie in to the existing highway at Sardine Saddle. At least that's the route that makes sense to me.


http://www.eacourier.com/copper_era/news/u-s-to-be-rerouted-around-fmi-morenci-copper-mine/article_e0b3489a-bc36-11e4-b941-2fae514b31d0.html


wphiii

Quote from: roadiejay on March 10, 2015, 12:39:15 AM
If the reroute ultimately bypasses the mine altogether as the article states, then my guess is that the highway will go due north at the Train station, Following the San Francisco River north for about 15 miles before making a westerly jog along Sardine Creek to climb up the mountain and tie in to the existing highway at Sardine Saddle. At least that's the route that makes sense to me.

There isn't really a route utilizing existing roads that does that already, is there? So this would effectively mean having to build a whole new road?

oscar

Kind of like what the Northwest Territories did, to reroute NT 4 around the old Giant Mine north of Yellowknife, on a straighter brand-new road. That mine is closed, but cleanup efforts are ongoing. It's nice to keep travelers away from both the cleanup and about 237,000 tonnes of arsenic trioxide (some buried under the old road, like the less dangerous copper deposits under US 191).
my Hot Springs and Highways pages, with links to my roads sites:
http://www.alaskaroads.com/home.html

JKRhodes

Quote from: wphiii on March 10, 2015, 06:23:43 PM

There isn't really a route utilizing existing roads that does that already, is there? So this would effectively mean having to build a whole new road?

Actually, the mine built about 7 miles of new roadway within its property along the San Francisco river many years ago. This road is currently unpaved, but with the gradual sweeping curves it looks like it could easily handle design speeds of 50+ mph. It currently dead ends in the middle of nowhere.

There's the issue of tying it in to the current alignment of US 191 in Clifton by the train station, which seems fairly easy, then the issue of tying it in with US 191 well north of the property, which would involve an extensive amount of new construction.

NE2

It's interesting to note that 2013 traffic north of the mine is 82 per day. At those volumes you don't need more than a single lane with passing places. I'd turn it over to the forest service and reroute US 191 over SR 78 and US 180.
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

JKRhodes

#5
Quote from: NE2 on March 12, 2015, 02:04:01 AM
It's interesting to note that 2013 traffic north of the mine is 82 per day. At those volumes you don't need more than a single lane with passing places. I'd turn it over to the forest service and reroute US 191 over SR 78 and US 180.

The route you specify is the preferred route from Safford and points beyond to Alpine and points beyond... it's safer and faster than US 191.

Such a change would result in a 100 mile US 191/US 180 concurrency, which I don't have a problem with personally. The road from Three Way Junction to Clifton could then be re-designated as an extension of AZ 75, which would make more sense from a route continuity standpoint. Then the mines would still be accessible via a state highway.

JKRhodes

#6
Necromancing this thread due to new developments:

http://www.eacourier.com/copper_era/news/adot-engineer-it-s-time-for-a-serious-discussion-on/article_a5141af0-c979-11e7-8a80-3f32813c804c.html

Similar to a suggestion made in this thread, ADOT has begun to seriously look at closing US 191. This suggestion has not been received well among locals. Excerpts from the article:

""Segment 21, US191, from US 191x near Granville to SR 180 Alpine,"  as its documented in the study, is fraught with a number of issues that Harmon said are not new. The route is more than 100 years old, with features in disrepair and geography that lends itself to constant damage by the elements and fire.

The road sees an average of 81 vehicles daily, a low volume as compared to the cost of maintenance. The study detailed an average of $8,152.70 average annual cost per mile. That's $658,249.37 per year, and a total of $3,291,246.86 from 2011-16.

(...)

Alternatives he presented encompass several options. One is to continue the status quo with road realignment and allocating funds there isntead of constant repair.

Harmon said Freeport has been an outstanding partner to ADOT, but Freeport's need to regularly shift the road's alignment would eventually make it too difficult to traverse.

A second option floated was to have an alternate route built along the San Francisco River, but the costs and difficulties that would come with that effort are what the engineer called a "show stopper."  By Harmon's estimate, the undertaking would be somewhere in the neighborhood of $300 million to $500 million.

"That's hard to justify for 80 cars a day,"  he said.

The third option he presented is the Mule Creek route to U.S. Highway 180 in New Mexico, coming back to Alpine. That path, he said, is already considered a preferred route, but acknowledged that all the proposed routes and options have concerns and problems.

"There are no easy answers, but there are a lot of hard questions,"  he said."

Max Rockatansky

So does ADOT plan to abandon or relinquish 191 north of the Morenci Mine to Nutriso and US 180?   That's a real shame, traffic counts aside the Coronado Trail is probably the coolest US Route segment to drive on in the entire country.  I guess that I'll be glad that I got some photos if it really does close down. 

oscar

That part of US 191 is somewhat scenic, but mainly white-knuckle, slow, and unpleasant. I drove it this June, as part of clinching US 191 from border to border. The low traffic counts, which are similar to the two highways in North America north of the Arctic Circle (Dalton in Alaska, Dempster in Yukon and Northwest Territories), are no surprise to me.
my Hot Springs and Highways pages, with links to my roads sites:
http://www.alaskaroads.com/home.html

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: oscar on November 17, 2017, 11:57:05 AM
That part of US 191 is somewhat scenic, but mainly white-knuckle, slow, and unpleasant. I drove it this June, as part of clinching US 191 from border to border. The low traffic counts, which are similar to the two highways in North America north of the Arctic Circle (Dalton in Alaska, Dempster in Yukon and Northwest Territories), are no surprise to me.


15 MPH speed limits on that stretch are essentially non-enforced.  I've never once seen DPS much less any County level enforcement up there on the Coronado Trail.  So long as you are okay with heights it's more or less a 30-35 MPH road.  That's a nitpick I've had about Arizona for a long time is that speed limits on mountain grades are laughably low. 

JKRhodes

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 17, 2017, 11:48:00 AM
So does ADOT plan to abandon or relinquish 191 north of the Morenci Mine to Nutriso and US 180?   That's a real shame, traffic counts aside the Coronado Trail is probably the coolest US Route segment to drive on in the entire country.  I guess that I'll be glad that I got some photos if it really does close down.

The mine is also probably the only major open pit in North America to have a US Highway running through the middle of it. While it adds to the uniqueness of the scenic drive, it presents significant operational challenges to the mining company, and has resulted in several temporary reroutes of the highway... As the article notes, this conversation was spurred by an invitation from the mine to discuss alternatives in 2015.

IOW, I'm sure the mine would love nothing better than to get the highway "out of its hair." That being said, I hope the route isn't shut down... for reasons you mentioned, and a number of others.

JKRhodes

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 17, 2017, 12:04:07 PM
Quote from: oscar on November 17, 2017, 11:57:05 AM
That part of US 191 is somewhat scenic, but mainly white-knuckle, slow, and unpleasant. I drove it this June, as part of clinching US 191 from border to border. The low traffic counts, which are similar to the two highways in North America north of the Arctic Circle (Dalton in Alaska, Dempster in Yukon and Northwest Territories), are no surprise to me.


15 MPH speed limits on that stretch are essentially non-enforced.  I've never once seen DPS much less any County level enforcement up there on the Coronado Trail.  So long as you are okay with heights it's more or less a 30-35 MPH road.  That's a nitpick I've had about Arizona for a long time is that speed limits on mountain grades are laughably low.

I've seen DPS on the rare occasion responding to a wreck up there. I've also been pulled over by Game and Fish on the pretense that my "White Truck" vaguely matched the description of a suspected poacher. The Game Warden, seeing my wife in the passenger seat and a complete lack of firearms and hunting gear in the truck, explained why he stopped me, and swiftly sent me on my way.

As far as speed enforcement goes, you are absolutely correct; one of my favorite parts of the drive is the lone straightaway atop Four Bar Mesa (milemarker 192ish) where it feels refreshing to open up the throttle and reach speeds of 80+ after 45 minutes of slow curves.

I felt the same way about mountain speed limits in this state until a particularly harrowing night I drove a U-haul with my family in the bench seat and my car in tow on a dolly. Since AZ doesn't believe in split speed limits for small vehicles and large vehicles, they have to cater to the largest, most cumbersome and road crazy rigs out there.


Max Rockatansky

^^^

When I took this album I ended up behind a U-Haul after Four Bar Mesa:

https://www.flickr.com/gp/151828809@N08/8t57L5

I thought the guy was going to drive off a cliff trying to use a pullout to let me pass.  I ran into the guy down at the Morenci Mine overlook, apparently he intended to use US 180 and went down 191 by mistake.  I want to say that was one of the first serious road albums I did which doesn't really say much.  I like to get back out and retake the photos at some point. 


Sonic99

This road is one of the most scenic and fun roads I've ever driven. I hope it's not closed in the near future, I've been wanting to take another trip out there.
If you used to draw freeways on your homework and got reprimanded by your Senior English teacher for doing so, you might be a road geek!

Max Rockatansky

Wrote up a retro-road blog on US 191/The Coronado Trail.  Hopefully the route isn't closed, realigned or anything but left as is.  I'd say if ADOT is making presentations about closing the Coronado Trail that you probably ought to get out and see it if it's on your wish list while you still have a chance.

http://surewhynotnow.blogspot.com/2017/11/throwback-thursday-us-191-coronado.html

Rover_0

So, if the Coronado Trail is being closed to motorists, I assume that US-191 gets rerouted into New Mexico along AZ/NM-78 and (US-180) back to Alpine, right?
Fixing erroneous shields, one at a time...

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: Rover_0 on November 23, 2017, 11:11:38 PM
So, if the Coronado Trail is being closed to motorists, I assume that US-191 gets rerouted into New Mexico along AZ/NM-78 and (US-180) back to Alpine, right?

That's what I'm thinking.  The route you described is only about five miles longer between Eagar and Three Way despite dipping into New Mexico.  180 is way more of a smooth ride than US 191 is south of Alpine, I don't believe there are even any truck restrictions. 

Duke87

It looks like there are multiple side roads along the way, which makes an outright closure problematic due to the need to preserve local access.

I'm guessing any "closure" would mean only closing the portion of the road through the mine, with the remainder turned over to the NFS and kept open to traffic, but with a Forest Route number and as a looong dead end. Probably also with zero winter maintenance and with sections turned back into gravel as the existing asphalt surface ages and degrades.
If you always take the same road, you will never see anything new.

US 89

Quote from: Duke87 on November 23, 2017, 11:54:51 PM
It looks like there are multiple side roads along the way, which makes an outright closure problematic due to the need to preserve local access.

I'm guessing any "closure" would mean only closing the portion of the road through the mine, with the remainder turned over to the NFS and kept open to traffic, but with a Forest Route number and as a looong dead end. Probably also with zero winter maintenance and with sections turned back into gravel as the existing asphalt surface ages and degrades.

If that happens, I'm betting on the old alignments of 191 getting redesignated as state routes, maybe even with x91 route numbers.

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: roadguy2 on November 24, 2017, 01:24:30 AM
Quote from: Duke87 on November 23, 2017, 11:54:51 PM
It looks like there are multiple side roads along the way, which makes an outright closure problematic due to the need to preserve local access.

I'm guessing any "closure" would mean only closing the portion of the road through the mine, with the remainder turned over to the NFS and kept open to traffic, but with a Forest Route number and as a looong dead end. Probably also with zero winter maintenance and with sections turned back into gravel as the existing asphalt surface ages and degrades.

If that happens, I'm betting on the old alignments of 191 getting redesignated as state routes, maybe even with x91 route numbers.

I would only see the state willing to pick up the maintenance on something easy like the roadway from Alpine to Hannagan Meadow.  South from there to the Morenci Mine there isn't any notable residences or really inhabited locations.

JKRhodes

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 24, 2017, 05:32:32 AM
Quote from: roadguy2 on November 24, 2017, 01:24:30 AM
Quote from: Duke87 on November 23, 2017, 11:54:51 PM
It looks like there are multiple side roads along the way, which makes an outright closure problematic due to the need to preserve local access.

I'm guessing any "closure" would mean only closing the portion of the road through the mine, with the remainder turned over to the NFS and kept open to traffic, but with a Forest Route number and as a looong dead end. Probably also with zero winter maintenance and with sections turned back into gravel as the existing asphalt surface ages and degrades.

If that happens, I'm betting on the old alignments of 191 getting redesignated as state routes, maybe even with x91 route numbers.

I would only see the state willing to pick up the maintenance on something easy like the roadway from Alpine to Hannagan Meadow.  South from there to the Morenci Mine there isn't any notable residences or really inhabited locations.

To avoid creation of another route number, Az 260 could be extended from its current end in Eagar, concurrent with US 191 and 180 to Alpine, then south to Hannagan Meadow.

Between the ranches north of Morenci, the mine's pumping stations in Upper Eagle Creek, and the need for an alternate evacuation route in the event of flooding in Clifton of the San Francisco River, I am highly doubtful that access will be cut off completely through the mine.

Max Rockatansky

I'd really like to see what ADOT has in mind for bypassing the Morenci Mine via the San Francisco River.  I would imagine that would be kind a wild ride getting through from the Chase Creek overlook east to the San Francisco River but it wouldn't be inconceivable.  The Mine seems to be the real issue at hand, I'm sure if they picked up part of the tab for either maintenance of the current road or a realignment a lot of this closure talk would end.  The copper revenues out of the Morenci Mine are pretty high but I'm not sure what kind of profits they pulling these days. 

JKRhodes

The existing "million dollar highway" dirt road east of the San Francisco River could be pushed a little further along the River, then turn up the Sardine Spring valley. The only real difficult part I see would be tying it in to the existing highway at Sardine Saddle, a difference in elevation of about 800 feet from the bottom of the canyon.

Most of the other routing I see would be extremely close to the existing mine and possibly encroached in the future.... or would require extensive tunneling and excavation.

froggie

Quote from: roadiejayThe mine is also probably the only major open pit in North America to have a US Highway running through the middle of it.

US 53 near Virginia, MN skirts through an open pit taconite mine.  The mine actually owns the land underneath the existing roadway and wants to mine it, forcing MnDOT to build a $220 million bypass of the mine that will feature the tallest bridge in Minnesota.  Of course, US 53 in that area has about 10,000 vpd instead of just 81-82, so there's more of an impetus to reroute it.

kwellada

Well, seeing this thread is making my change my road trip route partway through.  I have been exploring various national parks in Utah and had planned to dip into Arizona.  I'm in Blanding, UT, tonight so heading straight south on 191 to hit up the Coronado Trail once more makes sense.  I live in Tacoma, WA, so it's somewhat unlikely I'll make it to eastern Arizona again for the foreseeable future...and it'd suck if I missed out on one last chance to be one of those 81 cars a day on that highway.  It's one of my favorite drives of all time. 



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