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Regional Boards => Northwest => Topic started by: mcarling on February 18, 2015, 01:56:51 PM

Title: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
Post by: mcarling on February 18, 2015, 01:56:51 PM
Quote from: Bickendan on January 28, 2014, 11:19:43 PM
Civic Stadium and Civic Auditorium ftw

http://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/HWY/REGION1/pages/i5partnership/rosequarter.aspx
http://www.portlandoregon.gov/bps/article/415777

In late 2012, first the Portland City Council approved this plan unanimously and then the Oregon Transportation Commission approved the plan unanimously.  At the time, there was no funding available because the extremely expensive CRC hadn't yet been defeated.  With the CRC dead, there should be funding available.  Has there been any progress in moving the I-5 Rose Quarter project toward implementation?  Does anyone know the status?
Title: Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
Post by: myosh_tino on February 18, 2015, 02:37:03 PM
I see you found your way over here from Skyscraper City, welcome!

There are a number of users from the Pacific Northwest here so I hope you can get a suitable answer to your question.
Title: Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
Post by: Bickendan on February 18, 2015, 02:45:48 PM
Welcome! I haven't heard anything about this recently, though I do remember seeing plans on how the reconfigured street (and streetcar) layouts would be. I'll dig through ODOT's pages to see if I can find it (and maybe an update on the project itself).
Title: Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
Post by: Vincent on February 18, 2015, 02:51:01 PM
The short answer is: sorta.

Longer answer: ODOT is proposing to use federal funds for preliminary engineering in 2016 to "Develop a project for future construction funding," key number 19071. The proposed project was approved by the Oregon Transportation Commission in December 2014 but has not been approved by FHWA yet. I expect it will be. However, the $1.5M design budget won't get through final design and it certainly doesn't include construction.
Title: Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
Post by: Bickendan on February 18, 2015, 03:12:02 PM
Design option pdf, looks like back from 2007: http://www.portlandoregon.gov/bps/article/327979
Title: Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
Post by: nexus73 on February 18, 2015, 03:18:48 PM
Here's your real roadblock and it's name is bureaucracy.

Several previous studies: the Greeley Ramp-North
Banfield Section Study (1987), the Blazer Arena
Study (1991) and the Freeway Loop Study (2005),
have addressed the operational issues of this
section. This current effort was a fresh look at
feasible solutions that could be implemented in the
relative short term.

Gotta keep those looks fresh...LOL!  Typical ODOT.  Study something to death and then do nothing.  Good work if you can get it!

Rick
Title: Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
Post by: Bickendan on February 18, 2015, 03:28:21 PM
Ayup. We should do something 'bout that, Bert.
Your coffee getting cold like mine? Thinkin' about putting on a new pot.
Nice weather we're havin', innit? Ayup.
Title: Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
Post by: OCGuy81 on February 18, 2015, 04:07:55 PM
I'm really surprised the current configuration is the way it is.  Visiting friends in Washington and driving back through Portland (SB 5) I was confident we'd get through town pretty quickly at 2:15 on a weekday afternoon.

Alas, there was the narrowing to two lanes, right in the heart of town, where all the major freeways converge! Kudos, ODOT, you managed to get the take home version of the East LA Interchange. :-)
Title: Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
Post by: Bickendan on February 18, 2015, 04:18:52 PM
Ha, it's not just I-5 -- I-405 as well goes down to 2 in each. And while 205's not a bad alternative, both the north and south ends are down to two in each.
Title: Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
Post by: OCGuy81 on February 18, 2015, 04:23:24 PM
Quote from: Bickendan on February 18, 2015, 04:18:52 PM
Ha, it's not just I-5 -- I-405 as well goes down to 2 in each. And while 205's not a bad alternative, both the north and south ends are down to two in each.

Might be getting off topic, but is there any freeway in Oregon > 3 lanes in each direction for more than about a mile? Seems like they don't get any bigger than 3.
Title: Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
Post by: Bickendan on February 18, 2015, 04:29:55 PM
I-205 between Sunnybrook Blvd and Johnson Creek Blvd. It's the only one, though the ROW would support eight laning 205 between Foster and I-84, possibly between JCB and Foster as well.
Title: Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
Post by: Vincent on February 18, 2015, 05:01:45 PM
Quote from: nexus73 on February 18, 2015, 03:18:48 PM
Gotta keep those looks fresh...LOL!  Typical ODOT.  Study something to death and then do nothing.  Good work if you can get it!

These aren't just planning studies for fun. Transportation funding is a competitive process. Quite often planned projects are never constructed.

At first planners look at the problems and what it takes to fix: usually a hell of a lot of money. When ODOT goes looking for money nobody wants to fund it because there are other projects that have a better ROI. A decade later the problem still exists so the planners take another look at improvements that will have the best ROI. In this case, it was enough to get a preliminary design. With some design work done they'll have a better understanding of construction costs and will be in a better position to secure fast-paced funds like ARRA.

Or if you can find $250M I am confident ODOT will be happy to start work today  :)
Title: Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
Post by: nexus73 on February 18, 2015, 08:45:58 PM
Quote from: Vincent on February 18, 2015, 05:01:45 PM
Quote from: nexus73 on February 18, 2015, 03:18:48 PM
Gotta keep those looks fresh...LOL!  Typical ODOT.  Study something to death and then do nothing.  Good work if you can get it!

These aren't just planning studies for fun. Transportation funding is a competitive process. Quite often planned projects are never constructed.

At first planners look at the problems and what it takes to fix: usually a hell of a lot of money. When ODOT goes looking for money nobody wants to fund it because there are other projects that have a better ROI. A decade later the problem still exists so the planners take another look at improvements that will have the best ROI. In this case, it was enough to get a preliminary design. With some design work done they'll have a better understanding of construction costs and will be in a better position to secure fast-paced funds like ARRA.

Or if you can find $250M I am confident ODOT will be happy to start work today  :)

Procedural BS galore.  Wait until there is something that needs doing, money is in hand (only needs to be close, shit happens in any case, see the gov't track record on projects of all types), draw up the plan and BUILD THE PROJECT.  That's how you save money from being wasted on studies.  Since you show an Oregon-like location I'll assume you know about the waste of money called CRC planning.  You might like seeing your tax $$$ going down non-productive paths but I and the vast majority of Oregonians don't.

Rick
Title: Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
Post by: Vincent on February 20, 2015, 11:42:35 AM
Quote from: nexus73 on February 18, 2015, 08:45:58 PM
Wait until there is something that needs doing, money is in hand (only needs to be close, shit happens in any case, see the gov't track record on projects of all types), draw up the plan and BUILD THE PROJECT.

I will defer to your experience with transportation funding mechanisms. We don't need to think ahead about what we should build.
Title: Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
Post by: nexus73 on February 20, 2015, 12:24:08 PM
Quote from: Vincent on February 20, 2015, 11:42:35 AM
Quote from: nexus73 on February 18, 2015, 08:45:58 PM
Wait until there is something that needs doing, money is in hand (only needs to be close, shit happens in any case, see the gov't track record on projects of all types), draw up the plan and BUILD THE PROJECT.

I will defer to your experience with transportation funding mechanisms. We don't need to think ahead about what we should build.

Nice way to deflect there buddy.  Why do you have so much faith in government "efficiency"?

Rick
Title: Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
Post by: TEG24601 on February 20, 2015, 01:50:02 PM
I wouldn't expect anything to happen on I-5 in Portland until there is a fundamental understanding of the locals that more freeway lanes, can help reduce surface street usage, and make bicyclists safer (in theory).  Most people I've talked to are happy with the bottle neck because they think it causes people to stop driving, when instead they use 99E to get around all of it.  Not to mention the major investment on those surface streets to bring the Portland Streetcar to them.


The will also need to be some major redesigning of the streets that travel over that section of I-5... I'd like to see them reconfigure Vancouver, Broadway, Wiedler, and Williams into a giant Roundabout.
Title: Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
Post by: Bickendan on February 20, 2015, 02:44:37 PM
Quote from: nexus73 on February 20, 2015, 12:24:08 PM
Quote from: Vincent on February 20, 2015, 11:42:35 AM
Quote from: nexus73 on February 18, 2015, 08:45:58 PM
Wait until there is something that needs doing, money is in hand (only needs to be close, shit happens in any case, see the gov't track record on projects of all types), draw up the plan and BUILD THE PROJECT.

I will defer to your experience with transportation funding mechanisms. We don't need to think ahead about what we should build.

Nice way to deflect there buddy.  Why do you have so much faith in government "efficiency"?

Rick

Ease up on the sniping here.
Title: Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
Post by: mcarling on February 20, 2015, 06:34:37 PM
Quote from: TEG24601 on February 20, 2015, 01:50:02 PM
I'd like to see them reconfigure Vancouver, Broadway, Wiedler, and Williams into a giant Roundabout.
I think a giant roundabout there would be a good idea from a policy perspective.  However, from a political perspective I think it's probably DoA because there is a specific plan which has already been approved unanimously by both the Portland City Council and the Oregon Transportation Commission.  So I think any question of an alternative implementation may be too late.
Title: Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
Post by: mcarling on April 15, 2016, 09:14:16 PM
I just found this:
https://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/HWY/REGION1/STIP/Rose%20Quarter.pdf
Title: Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
Post by: The Ghostbuster on April 18, 2016, 02:51:19 PM
How much does anyone want to bet that none of the freeway improvements will be constructed.
Title: Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
Post by: mcarling on April 18, 2016, 04:33:18 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on April 18, 2016, 02:51:19 PM
How much does anyone want to bet that none of the freeway improvements will be constructed.
You want to be that a specific plan which has already been approved unanimously by both the Portland City Council and the Oregon Transportation Commission will never be built?
Title: Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
Post by: The Ghostbuster on April 19, 2016, 03:40:39 PM
From what I've heard, Portland is more interested in increasing density and building more light rail lines, and letting the roads fall into disrepair and be hopelessly gridlocked.
Title: Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
Post by: mcarling on April 20, 2016, 03:25:46 AM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on April 19, 2016, 03:40:39 PM
From what I've heard, Portland is more interested in increasing density and building more light rail lines, and letting the roads fall into disrepair and be hopelessly gridlocked.
That's generally true, which is why it's exceptional that the Portland City Council unanimously approved this plan.  I would bet the legislature will fund this before the Portland City Council changes their minds.
Title: Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
Post by: The Ghostbuster on April 20, 2016, 02:56:58 PM
I hope you're right, mcarling.
Title: Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
Post by: jakeroot on April 20, 2016, 04:56:26 PM
I don't think Portland, Multnomah County, nor ODOT, has any interest in letting roads fall into disrepair; just because they aren't building new roads and widening all over the place doesn't mean they have some sort of deep detestation for roads (the gas tax has to go to something, after all). Their goal is simply to maintain what they already have, and add to it only when absolutely necessary (for example, adding shoulders for safety, etc).
Title: Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
Post by: Plutonic Panda on August 05, 2021, 04:05:31 PM
The governor has thrown her support behind this project. Let's break ground already!

https://katu.com/news/local/gov-brown-voices-support-for-odots-rose-quarter-freeway-expansion
Title: Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
Post by: Plutonic Panda on August 05, 2021, 04:10:56 PM
Here's a link to the official project website: https://www.i5rosequarter.org/

Latest update as a of July 2021:

QuoteDesign work for the project continues and the independent highway cover concluded in July 2021. Last spring, a design package was produced that includes comments from project partners and community input from the Environmental Assessment. This design update will inform the work of the construction team and support a collaborative approach to addressing design issues, challenges and opportunities moving forward.

According to FAQ on their website this is the construction schedule:

QuoteWhen will construction start, how long will it take, and how will construction impact traffic?
Some components of construction are anticipated to start in 2022, with the main construction components anticipated to start in late 2023 or early 2024. Construction will last about 4 to 5 years. ODOT will work closely with businesses in the project area to implement strategies to limit disruption to businesses during construction, including maintaining event access to the Moda Center. ODOT will also develop a comprehensive transportation management plan to document construction staging and schedule, detours or alternate routes for all modes of travel during road and lane closures, as well as transportation management and operation strategies.
Title: Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
Post by: Plutonic Panda on September 09, 2021, 12:36:15 PM
Update:

https://www.oregonlive.com/commuting/2021/09/transportation-commission-set-to-adopt-freeway-cap-compromise.html
Title: Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
Post by: Plutonic Panda on September 13, 2021, 12:06:11 PM
https://www.opb.org/article/2021/09/09/oregon-transportation-commission-interstate-5-rose-quarter-project/
Title: Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
Post by: Sub-Urbanite on September 13, 2021, 05:45:17 PM
Hot mess / poison pill from ODOT. Who knows where this goes now. Seems like most likely destination is a mothballing with another 10 years before the topic comes up again.
Title: Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
Post by: Plutonic Panda on September 21, 2021, 09:07:37 PM
Well I gather from this article it's moving forward as ODOT seems to believe they can find it. They have to prove it by December 1st(2021). Cost estimates are now around 1.2 billion up from 500 million. They'd be wise to just get the damned thing going.

https://www.constructionequipmentguide.com/otc-advances-i-5-rose-quarter-improvement-project/53860
Title: Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
Post by: compdude787 on September 21, 2021, 09:10:45 PM
1.2 billion for about a mile of road. Wow!!  :-o
Title: Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
Post by: The Ghostbuster on September 21, 2021, 09:49:31 PM
Why do I have the feeling this proposal will meet the same fate as the proposal to replace the Columbia River Crossing?
Title: Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
Post by: Plutonic Panda on September 21, 2021, 10:00:24 PM
Is that completely dead? I thought it was moving forward but very slowly amid disagreements with the light rail aspect of it.
Title: Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
Post by: Bruce on September 21, 2021, 10:45:47 PM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on September 21, 2021, 10:00:24 PM
Is that completely dead? I thought it was moving forward but very slowly amid disagreements with the light rail aspect of it.

It was completely called off in 2014 because Oregon wouldn't have been able to fund the whole thing itself. The two states restarted planning in 2019, with hopes of reusing the existing money granted from the feds that has a 2029 repayment deadline.

The light rail section isn't the big hangup, it's just the sheer cost and size of the whole thing. The original plan had a dozen lanes in downtown Vancouver, which isn't going to fly anymore.
Title: Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
Post by: Plutonic Panda on September 21, 2021, 11:02:18 PM
Quote from: Bruce on September 21, 2021, 10:45:47 PM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on September 21, 2021, 10:00:24 PM
Is that completely dead? I thought it was moving forward but very slowly amid disagreements with the light rail aspect of it.

It was completely called off in 2014 because Oregon wouldn't have been able to fund the whole thing itself. The two states restarted planning in 2019, with hopes of reusing the existing money granted from the feds that has a 2029 repayment deadline.

The light rail section isn't the big hangup, it's just the sheer cost and size of the whole thing. The original plan had a dozen lanes in downtown Vancouver, which isn't going to fly anymore.
I really don't see 12 lanes as that big of an issue for such a high priority freight corridor. Unless I'm mistaken I recall many articles pointing to the rail aspect as being controversial. I even seem to recall Portland's metro getting jurisdiction if the rail is built which also ruffled some feathers. Please correct me where I'm wrong as this isn't my area(I still haven't been north of I-80 yet) so it falls behind other priorities in my memory lol. I do seem to recall we have had this discussion somewhere before where someone mentioned the whole Metro jurisdiction thing but I can't remember.

If this really is simply an issue about cost and nothing more that's even worse, IMO. So what's the alternative? Do nothing until it ends up like I-40 in Memphis being shutdown until a patch job can be done? That's all America is capable of doing? The west coast isn't a poor area of the country, we should be able to do better on its main spine which is I-5. I guess if the state(s) don't want to stomach the opposition it could be easier to just wait until they justifiably shut it down to traffic and see if that changes anyone's mind as most people don't always cherish what they until it's gone.

Hopefully the new infrastructure bills pass and make this project more feasible. I had no idea it was at an impasse. What is ODOT doing big these days other than the Rose Quarter project if this isn't going anywhere besides wanting to convert free roads into toll roads?
Title: Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
Post by: Bruce on September 21, 2021, 11:24:36 PM
The light rail opposition is from the last bridge attempt. Vancouver proper has a different political landscape now and is thankfully ready to develop around transit, and Clark County is split but could be convinced.

A smaller-scale replacement on top of tolling both crossings and redirecting freight to I-205 could be enough if there's a separate light rail crossing. A congestion toll would work wonders for their traffic.

Oregon places a high priority on the Interstate Bridge Replacement, but Washington has a lot of other needs that we're throwing money at (finishing the SR 520 program, rebuilding Snoqualmie Pass, widening I-405, extending SR 509 and SR 167, ferry replacements, preparing for our own I-5 rebuild in the coming years...and this is all in the Seattle area).
Title: Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
Post by: Plutonic Panda on September 21, 2021, 11:36:20 PM
As I said, I wonder if there is any hope with the new infrastructure package. Maybe that can lend a ray of light. Curious what you think the I-5 rebuild could be? Any additional lanes? TBM work?
Title: Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
Post by: jakeroot on September 22, 2021, 01:07:16 PM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on September 21, 2021, 11:36:20 PM
As I said, I wonder if there is any hope with the new infrastructure package. Maybe that can lend a ray of light. Curious what you think the I-5 rebuild could be? Any additional lanes? TBM work?

I believe that federal funding has been identified, both before and now, as essential to getting the project built.

Quote from: Bruce on September 21, 2021, 11:24:36 PM
A smaller-scale replacement on top of tolling both crossings and redirecting freight to I-205 could be enough if there's a separate light rail crossing. A congestion toll would work wonders for their traffic.

I would think a non-tolled crossing would be quite viable with enough federal funding.
Title: Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
Post by: Thunderbyrd316 on October 30, 2021, 04:31:27 PM
   I could have sworn I have said this before in relation specifically to this project (I-5 Rose Quarter) but I have just scrolled through all of the responses and do not see my name on any of them. It is my opinion that this project is totally inadequate and is being set up by the anti-freeway crowd to "prove" that it is not possible to "build your way out of congestion". I have opposed this project from the beginning for that very reason. When completed congestion will be as bad or worse than it is now and the anti-freeway people will have their "proof".

   Yes, a modern Interstate 5 through the Portland metro area is desperately needed but the political will to construct what needs to be constructed simply does not exist. (And this is in addition to the needs of other freeways, both new routes and fully reconstructed existing routes, around the PDX metro area.)

   Yes, the cost to construct what is actually needed will be high but the cost of doing nothing will be far worse. I have watched Portland transform from a metro area with a few bad traffic spots to a commuters nightmare over the past 30 years. It will take at least that long to fix it and there are no signs that anyone even wants to begin to try. I would happily pay an extra $1 per gallon in gas taxes if the money actually went into new meaningful freeway construction.
Title: Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
Post by: Plutonic Panda on October 30, 2021, 06:44:12 PM
The thing about is this road needs to be 7-8 lanes each way. 5 free lanes with 2-3 toll lanes each way. Elevate it, tunnel it, do a hybrid. But that won't happen even Texas removed that option for I-35 in Austin and now it's coming under fire left and right. At the very least it seems with 3 lanes each way it will be modernized and have shoulders as well as improving the road network above.

Yeah the anti car crowd will use it as an example when it doesn't solve congestion but what group or leader will come out and counter that ridiculousness? We need better politicians and DOTs that will campaign against the anti car crowd and present arguments against theirs. I rarely if ever see that.
Title: Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
Post by: Bickendan on October 31, 2021, 02:51:00 AM
I'd sooner have the I-5/405 loop turned into a giant traffic circle than have the Eastbank turned into a 14 or 16 lane monstrosity.
Given the space constraints weaving between the Covention Center, Rose Quarter, and Tubman Middle School), it'd be a miracle and a half if there were any decent way to build the Eastbank Freeway to an eight lane cross section, and given that N Minnesota Ave and the Portland section of the Baldock Freeway are both six laners, building the Eastbank wider than that makes no sense, especially with the Stadium Freeway acting as an alternate route and most of the traffic on the Rose Quarter segment accessing the Banfield and not headed to/from the Marquam Bridge.
Title: Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
Post by: Bruce on January 20, 2022, 02:14:07 AM
The FHWA has revoked their FONSI, so a new environmental assessment has to be made.

https://www.opb.org/article/2022/01/19/feds-direct-odot-to-complete-new-environmental-assessment-for-i-5-rose-quarter-project/

For reference, the last approved plan is Hybrid 3:

(https://bikeportland.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/Screen-Shot-2021-08-04-at-11.25.52-AM-scaled.jpg)
Title: Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
Post by: kernals12 on January 20, 2022, 05:01:47 PM
Quote from: Bruce on January 20, 2022, 02:14:07 AM
The FHWA has revoked their FONSI, so a new environmental assessment has to be made.

https://www.opb.org/article/2022/01/19/feds-direct-odot-to-complete-new-environmental-assessment-for-i-5-rose-quarter-project/

For reference, the last approved plan is Hybrid 3:

(https://bikeportland.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/Screen-Shot-2021-08-04-at-11.25.52-AM-scaled.jpg)
Surely ODOT can challenge this in court
Title: Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
Post by: The Ghostbuster on January 20, 2022, 06:12:25 PM
Maybe the 4-lane segments of Interstate 5 in the Portland-area should have been 6 lanes from the time the freeway was first constructed. Freeways with 4 lanes within an urban area such as Portland seems to be too little capacity to me, unless the freeway is a spur route.
Title: Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
Post by: kernals12 on January 20, 2022, 07:19:01 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on January 20, 2022, 06:12:25 PM
Maybe the 4-lane segments of Interstate 5 in the Portland-area should have been 6 lanes from the time the freeway was first constructed. Freeways with 4 lanes within an urban area such as Portland seems to be too little capacity to me, unless the freeway is a spur route.
In most cities, a freeway like this would have 8 lanes.
Title: Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
Post by: Sub-Urbanite on January 21, 2022, 11:22:41 AM
Quote from: kernals12 on January 20, 2022, 07:19:01 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on January 20, 2022, 06:12:25 PM
Maybe the 4-lane segments of Interstate 5 in the Portland-area should have been 6 lanes from the time the freeway was first constructed. Freeways with 4 lanes within an urban area such as Portland seems to be too little capacity to me, unless the freeway is a spur route.
In most cities, a freeway like this would have 8 lanes.

That's the amazing part about this debate. The climate warriors in Portland are like NO WE CAN'T HAVE ANY FREEWAY BEYOND 4 LANES OR THE PLANET WILL DIE but, you know, have they been anywhere else!?
Title: Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
Post by: jakeroot on January 21, 2022, 12:34:31 PM
It wouldn't matter if it was five lanes or one, it's that widening is being considered as part of the project.
Title: Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
Post by: OCGuy81 on January 21, 2022, 01:19:09 PM
PBOT won't rest until Interstates 5 and 84 are bikes and buses only....
Title: Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
Post by: Bickendan on January 22, 2022, 12:06:56 AM
PBOT's not the nimby here in this instance.
Title: Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
Post by: kernals12 on February 11, 2022, 01:23:48 PM
Governor Kate Brown has secured the blessing of Metro President Lynn Peterson and Portland City Commissioner Jo Ann Hardesty for the Rose Quarter widening.

https://www.wweek.com/news/state/2022/02/10/gov-kate-brown-wins-agreement-from-local-elected-officials-for-rose-quarter-project-with-highway-caps/
Title: Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
Post by: compdude787 on February 13, 2022, 01:53:58 AM
Quote from: Sub-Urbanite on January 21, 2022, 11:22:41 AM
Quote from: kernals12 on January 20, 2022, 07:19:01 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on January 20, 2022, 06:12:25 PM
Maybe the 4-lane segments of Interstate 5 in the Portland-area should have been 6 lanes from the time the freeway was first constructed. Freeways with 4 lanes within an urban area such as Portland seems to be too little capacity to me, unless the freeway is a spur route.
In most cities, a freeway like this would have 8 lanes.

That's the amazing part about this debate. The climate warriors in Portland are like NO WE CAN'T HAVE ANY FREEWAY BEYOND 4 LANES OR THE PLANET WILL DIE but, you know, have they been anywhere else!?

Yep, Portland's freeways are really narrow compared to all other cities on the west coast. Most of them are just 3 lanes in each direction (aside from the part on I-5 between I-205 and OR 217, which is 4-5 lanes in each direction), which is the absolute minimum for an urban freeway IMO.

I really don't have much of a problem with widening this stretch of freeway, but it's just crazy that widening just a mile of road is going to cost a billion dollars.
Title: Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
Post by: Plutonic Panda on February 13, 2022, 03:48:48 AM
Quote from: kernals12 on February 11, 2022, 01:23:48 PM
Governor Kate Brown has secured the blessing of Metro President Lynn Peterson and Portland City Commissioner Jo Ann Hardesty for the Rose Quarter widening.

https://www.wweek.com/news/state/2022/02/10/gov-kate-brown-wins-agreement-from-local-elected-officials-for-rose-quarter-project-with-highway-caps/
That article kind of gives me mixed thoughts. They are wanting to reduce the median size to ensure additional lanes can't be added? That's utterly ridiculous.
Title: Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
Post by: Alps on February 13, 2022, 10:42:07 AM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on February 13, 2022, 03:48:48 AM
Quote from: kernals12 on February 11, 2022, 01:23:48 PM
Governor Kate Brown has secured the blessing of Metro President Lynn Peterson and Portland City Commissioner Jo Ann Hardesty for the Rose Quarter widening.

https://www.wweek.com/news/state/2022/02/10/gov-kate-brown-wins-agreement-from-local-elected-officials-for-rose-quarter-project-with-highway-caps/
That article kind of gives me mixed thoughts. They are wanting to reduce the median size to ensure additional lanes can't be added? That's utterly ridiculous.
I know, because you are rabidly pro-highway to the exclusion of all else. Reducing the median size saves a lot of money in ROW and construction, so it's reasonable. Whatever motives there are now, it can be revisited in the future if further widening is deemed warranted.
Title: Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
Post by: kernals12 on February 13, 2022, 11:17:04 AM
It's remarkable that after all the crap about induced demand and climate change, they still sign on to a freeway expansion. It's proof that they don't really believe in that.
Title: Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
Post by: Rothman on February 13, 2022, 12:35:37 PM
Quote from: kernals12 on February 13, 2022, 11:17:04 AM
It's remarkable that after all the crap about induced demand and climate change, they still sign on to a freeway expansion. It's proof that they don't really believe in that.

Who's "they" here?
Title: Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
Post by: kernals12 on February 13, 2022, 12:57:36 PM
Quote from: Rothman on February 13, 2022, 12:35:37 PM
Quote from: kernals12 on February 13, 2022, 11:17:04 AM
It's remarkable that after all the crap about induced demand and climate change, they still sign on to a freeway expansion. It's proof that they don't really believe in that.

Who's "they" here?

Lynn Peterson and Jo Ann Hardesty had been pushing hard on the dogma that more lanes would only mean more congestion and that the carbon emissions would destroy life as we know it.
Title: Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
Post by: Plutonic Panda on February 13, 2022, 05:15:14 PM
Quote from: Alps on February 13, 2022, 10:42:07 AM
I know, because you are rabidly pro-highway to the exclusion of all else.
[/quote]
Do you even read my posts? Because if you did you'd know that's bullshit. I support mass and active transit all the time. I ride the red line in LA several times a week. What makes you think I don't support anything but freeway expansion?
Title: Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
Post by: Sub-Urbanite on February 14, 2022, 11:29:17 AM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on February 13, 2022, 03:48:48 AM
Quote from: kernals12 on February 11, 2022, 01:23:48 PM
Governor Kate Brown has secured the blessing of Metro President Lynn Peterson and Portland City Commissioner Jo Ann Hardesty for the Rose Quarter widening.

https://www.wweek.com/news/state/2022/02/10/gov-kate-brown-wins-agreement-from-local-elected-officials-for-rose-quarter-project-with-highway-caps/
That article kind of gives me mixed thoughts. They are wanting to reduce the median size to ensure additional lanes can't be added? That's utterly ridiculous.

I mean, here's the deal. The opponents are going to say "that center median is a SECRET ODOT LANE AND THIS 8-LANE PROJECT MUST DIE" if they build the 12 foot median. It takes some air out of the climate histrionics without actually affecting the project. And, let's be honest: There's no extra lane going in there ever anyway. Not unless Portland has a major shift in politics in the next half-century.
Title: Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
Post by: kernals12 on February 14, 2022, 07:20:32 PM
Quote from: Sub-Urbanite on February 14, 2022, 11:29:17 AM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on February 13, 2022, 03:48:48 AM
Quote from: kernals12 on February 11, 2022, 01:23:48 PM
Governor Kate Brown has secured the blessing of Metro President Lynn Peterson and Portland City Commissioner Jo Ann Hardesty for the Rose Quarter widening.

https://www.wweek.com/news/state/2022/02/10/gov-kate-brown-wins-agreement-from-local-elected-officials-for-rose-quarter-project-with-highway-caps/
That article kind of gives me mixed thoughts. They are wanting to reduce the median size to ensure additional lanes can't be added? That's utterly ridiculous.

I mean, here's the deal. The opponents are going to say "that center median is a SECRET ODOT LANE AND THIS 8-LANE PROJECT MUST DIE" if they build the 12 foot median. It takes some air out of the climate histrionics without actually affecting the project. And, let's be honest: There's no extra lane going in there ever anyway. Not unless Portland has a major shift in politics in the next half-century.

Portlanders voted against a tax increase in November 2020 meant to expand transit. They are going ahead with widening the I-5 Bridge over the Columbia to 10 lanes. Portland's politics are already shifting.
Title: Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
Post by: Sub-Urbanite on February 15, 2022, 12:41:21 PM
Quote from: kernals12 on February 14, 2022, 07:20:32 PM
Quote from: Sub-Urbanite on February 14, 2022, 11:29:17 AM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on February 13, 2022, 03:48:48 AM
Quote from: kernals12 on February 11, 2022, 01:23:48 PM
Governor Kate Brown has secured the blessing of Metro President Lynn Peterson and Portland City Commissioner Jo Ann Hardesty for the Rose Quarter widening.

https://www.wweek.com/news/state/2022/02/10/gov-kate-brown-wins-agreement-from-local-elected-officials-for-rose-quarter-project-with-highway-caps/
That article kind of gives me mixed thoughts. They are wanting to reduce the median size to ensure additional lanes can't be added? That's utterly ridiculous.

I mean, here's the deal. The opponents are going to say "that center median is a SECRET ODOT LANE AND THIS 8-LANE PROJECT MUST DIE" if they build the 12 foot median. It takes some air out of the climate histrionics without actually affecting the project. And, let's be honest: There's no extra lane going in there ever anyway. Not unless Portland has a major shift in politics in the next half-century.

Portlanders voted against a tax increase in November 2020 meant to expand transit. They are going ahead with widening the I-5 Bridge over the Columbia to 10 lanes. Portland's politics are already shifting.

I would be stunned if the Columbia River bridge gets built at 10 lanes. And it's not just the electorate. The transportation advocacy community has a ton of power here. It doesn't translate to ballot measures (beyond Portland proper) but it still connects with the people who get elected into office.
Title: Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
Post by: compdude787 on February 16, 2022, 03:19:28 AM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on February 13, 2022, 03:48:48 AM
Quote from: kernals12 on February 11, 2022, 01:23:48 PM
Governor Kate Brown has secured the blessing of Metro President Lynn Peterson and Portland City Commissioner Jo Ann Hardesty for the Rose Quarter widening.

https://www.wweek.com/news/state/2022/02/10/gov-kate-brown-wins-agreement-from-local-elected-officials-for-rose-quarter-project-with-highway-caps/
That article kind of gives me mixed thoughts. They are wanting to reduce the median size to ensure additional lanes can't be added? That's utterly ridiculous.

Nothing wrong with that. I highly doubt an additional lane will be built for at least 40-50 years, if ever, by which time the whole road will need to be rebuilt anyway. And besides, this project is already getting too expensive, so I'm all for anything to cut costs.

Quote from: Sub-Urbanite on February 15, 2022, 12:41:21 PM
Quote from: kernals12 on February 14, 2022, 07:20:32 PM

Portlanders voted against a tax increase in November 2020 meant to expand transit. They are going ahead with widening the I-5 Bridge over the Columbia to 10 lanes. Portland's politics are already shifting.

I would be stunned if the Columbia River bridge gets built at 10 lanes. And it's not just the electorate. The transportation advocacy community has a ton of power here. It doesn't translate to ballot measures (beyond Portland proper) but it still connects with the people who get elected into office.

Yeah, if they don't plan on widening I-5 between I-405 and the Columbia River, then it doesn't make sense to make it 10 lanes. Otherwise the 6-lane section through north Portland will just become a bottleneck. Making it 8 lanes is fine, especially considering that the traffic counts are 130,000 vpd. Oh, and adding light rail on the bridge is something that should definitely happen. Hopefully this time people in Clark County won't throw a big fit over it.
Title: Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
Post by: kernals12 on June 23, 2022, 05:27:17 PM
The Portland City Council has given its blessing!
Title: Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
Post by: Plutonic Panda on August 30, 2022, 05:58:24 PM
New survey is up and boy howdy are the anti car crowd up in arms I've been getting slammed on Twitter with death threats and endless ad hominem attacks for vocalizing my support for this project.

https://i5rosequarter.org/
Title: Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
Post by: kernals12 on August 30, 2022, 09:18:49 PM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on August 30, 2022, 05:58:24 PM
New survey is up and boy howdy are the anti car crowd up in arms I've been getting slammed on Twitter with death threats and endless ad hominem attacks for vocalizing my support for this project.

https://i5rosequarter.org/

They're lashing out because they're losing.
Title: Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
Post by: Plutonic Panda on August 30, 2022, 09:50:12 PM
Quote from: kernals12 on August 30, 2022, 09:18:49 PM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on August 30, 2022, 05:58:24 PM
New survey is up and boy howdy are the anti car crowd up in arms I've been getting slammed on Twitter with death threats and endless ad hominem attacks for vocalizing my support for this project.

https://i5rosequarter.org/

They're lashing out because they're losing.
I'm just hoping ODOT doesn't cave. Traffic will improve once this, the I-205(not happy about the tolling), and I-5 Columbia river bridge projects are finished.
Title: Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
Post by: kernals12 on August 30, 2022, 10:15:26 PM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on August 30, 2022, 09:50:12 PM
Quote from: kernals12 on August 30, 2022, 09:18:49 PM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on August 30, 2022, 05:58:24 PM
New survey is up and boy howdy are the anti car crowd up in arms I've been getting slammed on Twitter with death threats and endless ad hominem attacks for vocalizing my support for this project.

https://i5rosequarter.org/

They're lashing out because they're losing.
I'm just hoping ODOT doesn't cave. Traffic will improve once this, the I-205(not happy about the tolling), and I-5 Columbia river bridge projects are finished.

This project has the support of all levels of government and most of the public.

The opposition consists of a few dozen bored trust fund babies with blue hair and nose piercings.
Title: Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
Post by: Plutonic Panda on September 19, 2022, 08:28:34 PM
Good news from an email I received:

QuotePORTLAND — ODOT will share results from a public opinion survey conducted this summer to the Historic Albina Advisory Board during their meeting on Tuesday, Sept. 20 at 4 p.m.

The survey found support for the I-5 Rose Quarter Improvement Project is strong. More than three-quarters (76%) support the project, including a third (30%) who strongly support the project.

Key survey findings include:

Nearly 9 in 10 (86%) respondents say it is important to undertake a project to address traffic and congestion in the Rose Quarter.
86% believe shoulders for disabled vehicles to move out of traffic and for emergency responder use are a good idea.
81% believe auxiliary lanes to allow drivers to enter and exit the highway without merging through traffic are a good idea.
Strong majorities also believe that new bike and pedestrian paths, building a highway cover, and a ramp relocation are good ideas.
Respondents were shown short statements about the goals of the I-5 Rose Quarter Improvement Project. 86% agreed it is important to "Improve safety, manage congestion, improve travel time reliability, provide multiple transportation options, and connect communities and job centers across the region."
About a third of respondents feel traffic has gotten worse in the Rose Quarter compared to pre-pandemic levels and more than half feel it is likely to get worse.
The survey of 624 adults in Multnomah, Washington, and Clackamas counties was conducted online June 13-21, 2022. The margin of error for a survey of 624 interviews is ±3.9% at the 95% confidence level for each individual sample.

The Historic Albina Advisory Board meeting can be viewed via livestream at this link Tuesday, Sept. 20 at 4 p.m.: https://youtu.be/7gujCv0o4wA

Title: Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
Post by: Plutonic Panda on November 08, 2022, 07:32:18 PM
Next public meeting November 15th per an email I received:

QuoteI-5 Rose Quarter Improvement Project November Meeting
November 8, 2022

For more information, please contact Rose Gerber, 503-779-6927, Rose.Gerber@odot.oregon.gov.

The public is invited to attend an upcoming meeting for the I-5 Rose Quarter Improvement Project:

On Tuesday, November 15, the Historic Albina Advisory Board (HAAB) will meet online at 4:00 p.m.
The meeting will be livestreamed on YouTube. Please visit the project's events and meetings page for more information.

Anyone can observe the meeting and share comments via email, phone or online:

Email comments on specific agenda items to i5rosequarter@odot.oregon.gov with "HAAB Public Comment"  in the subject line.
Submit comments via phone at the project's hotline: 503-470-3127.
The facilitator will also provide an opportunity for online participants to provide comments during the meeting for up to two minutes via phone (the number is provided at the beginning of the meeting and listed on the events and meetings page).
Comments received by 11:00 a.m. the business day before the meeting will be shared with advisory committee members in advance. All written and voice recorded comments received will be added to the meeting record.

All project committee meetings are open to the public. If you wish to attend a virtual meeting but cannot attend by phone or computer, or you require language accommodations, please contact the project team at 503-470-3127 at least 48 hours in advance of the meeting.
Title: Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
Post by: Bruce on November 08, 2022, 07:45:19 PM
The Historic Albina Advisory Board meets every few months to discuss recommendations for the project's lid and reconciliation elements. This is not exactly a major meeting.
Title: Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
Post by: Bruce on June 26, 2023, 11:46:17 PM
Cost is up to $1.3 billion according to a new ODOT report, which recommends to pause all work until funding is found.

https://www.portlandmercury.com/news/2023/06/26/46578000/without-tolling-revenue-odot-puts-the-brakes-on-two-portland-area-freeway-projects