New Jersey Turnpike

[jeffandnicole]

https://www.nj.com/news/2022/01/nj-turnpike-negotiates-paying-81m-a-year-for-new-rail-tunnel-loan.html

New Jersey Turnpike and state treasury officials are negotiating details of a plan to have the toll road authority make an annual $81 million payment on loans to fund the state's share of the Gateway Tunnel project.

(Crossposting in the Mass Transit forum)

[ixnay]

but there is at least one instance of "56/412", on one line with the slash, with the shield stretched to ludicrous width.

14/103 takes up less space, since 1s are thinner. Unfortunately, it can't be made into a decimal, unlike US .9875 in Louisiana.

There actually *is* a US .9875?

[hotdogPi]

but there is at least one instance of "56/412", on one line with the slash, with the shield stretched to ludicrous width.

14/103 takes up less space, since 1s are thinner. Unfortunately, it can't be made into a decimal, unlike US .9875 in Louisiana.

There actually *is* a US .9875?

[famartin]

but there is at least one instance of "56/412", on one line with the slash, with the shield stretched to ludicrous width.

14/103 takes up less space, since 1s are thinner. Unfortunately, it can't be made into a decimal, unlike US .9875 in Louisiana.

There actually *is* a US .9875?

There's so much wrong with that assembly lol

[vdeane]

https://www.nj.com/news/2022/01/nj-turnpike-negotiates-paying-81m-a-year-for-new-rail-tunnel-loan.html

New Jersey Turnpike and state treasury officials are negotiating details of a plan to have the toll road authority make an annual $81 million payment on loans to fund the state's share of the Gateway Tunnel project.

(Crossposting in the Mass Transit forum)

Sounds like NJ is trying to replicate Act 44 in PA, except without first trying to toll a currently free road.  Have people learned nothing from that debacle?

[jeffandnicole]

https://www.nj.com/news/2022/01/nj-turnpike-negotiates-paying-81m-a-year-for-new-rail-tunnel-loan.html

New Jersey Turnpike and state treasury officials are negotiating details of a plan to have the toll road authority make an annual $81 million payment on loans to fund the state's share of the Gateway Tunnel project.

(Crossposting in the Mass Transit forum)

Sounds like NJ is trying to replicate Act 44 in PA, except without first trying to toll a currently free road.  Have people learned nothing from that debacle?

It's a bit different, in that Act 44 is a law.  This is an agreement (sounds the same, but certainly different), and that it appears the payments will only be made after the NJTA satisfies its own bond payments.  This is also tied to a very specific project, whereas Act 44 money floats in the wind and gobbled up by whomever wants it for unknown reasons.

The SJTA (Atlantic City Expressway) had a recent toll increase, of which $200 million is being used to help fund engineering work for a new Gloucester County, NJ Light Rail line.  This is a lot more controversial in that the feds won't even assist in funding it due to low projected ridership.  And $200 million from the SJTA is a lot of money from that toll road, which has nowhere near the revenue of the NJTA.

[Alps]

https://www.nj.com/news/2022/01/nj-turnpike-negotiates-paying-81m-a-year-for-new-rail-tunnel-loan.html

New Jersey Turnpike and state treasury officials are negotiating details of a plan to have the toll road authority make an annual $81 million payment on loans to fund the state's share of the Gateway Tunnel project.

(Crossposting in the Mass Transit forum)

Sounds like NJ is trying to replicate Act 44 in PA, except without first trying to toll a currently free road.  Have people learned nothing from that debacle?

It's a bit different, in that Act 44 is a law.  This is an agreement (sounds the same, but certainly different), and that it appears the payments will only be made after the NJTA satisfies its own bond payments.  This is also tied to a very specific project, whereas Act 44 money floats in the wind and gobbled up by whomever wants it for unknown reasons.

The SJTA (Atlantic City Expressway) had a recent toll increase, of which $200 million is being used to help fund engineering work for a new Gloucester County, NJ Light Rail line.  This is a lot more controversial in that the feds won't even assist in funding it due to low projected ridership.  And $200 million from the SJTA is a lot of money from that toll road, which has nowhere near the revenue of the NJTA.

Yes being tied to a specific project and horizon is a huge difference. NJTA is not gonna make PA's mistake.

[ixnay]

but there is at least one instance of "56/412", on one line with the slash, with the shield stretched to ludicrous width.

14/103 takes up less space, since 1s are thinner. Unfortunately, it can't be made into a decimal, unlike US .9875 in Louisiana.

There actually *is* a US .9875?

There's so much wrong with that assembly lol

Sure is!

[cl94]

https://www.nj.com/news/2022/01/nj-turnpike-negotiates-paying-81m-a-year-for-new-rail-tunnel-loan.html

New Jersey Turnpike and state treasury officials are negotiating details of a plan to have the toll road authority make an annual $81 million payment on loans to fund the state's share of the Gateway Tunnel project.

(Crossposting in the Mass Transit forum)

Sounds like NJ is trying to replicate Act 44 in PA, except without first trying to toll a currently free road.  Have people learned nothing from that debacle?

It's a bit different, in that Act 44 is a law.  This is an agreement (sounds the same, but certainly different), and that it appears the payments will only be made after the NJTA satisfies its own bond payments.  This is also tied to a very specific project, whereas Act 44 money floats in the wind and gobbled up by whomever wants it for unknown reasons.

The SJTA (Atlantic City Expressway) had a recent toll increase, of which $200 million is being used to help fund engineering work for a new Gloucester County, NJ Light Rail line.  This is a lot more controversial in that the feds won't even assist in funding it due to low projected ridership.  And $200 million from the SJTA is a lot of money from that toll road, which has nowhere near the revenue of the NJTA.

Yes being tied to a specific project and horizon is a huge difference. NJTA is not gonna make PA's mistake.

Another key here is that the Turnpike and Northeast Corridor serve the same regions. Using toll revenue to fund other transportation improvements along the same corridor is very different from funneling toll revenue from far away into transit systems that have nothing in common, like PA wanted to do with tolling I-80 to fund urban transit. The Gateway project will have direct and positive impacts on the Turnpike system and the corridor the Turnpike serves. I have no problem with using toll revenue to fund something along the corridor that will benefit the regional transportation network.

[D-Dey65]

I have a question; Does a drive between the Clara Barton Service Area and the main toll plaza normally take three minutes, or was I moving a little too fast when I was coming back from New York?

[famartin]

I have a question; Does a drive between the Clara Barton Service Area and the main toll plaza normally take three minutes, or was I moving a little too fast when I was coming back from New York?

3 minutes looks right
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/39.6968907,-75.3982433/39.6858406,-75.4478157/@39.6910479,-75.4340908,14.17z/data=!4m2!4m1!3e0

[jeffandnicole]

I have a question; Does a drive between the Clara Barton Service Area and the main toll plaza normally take three minutes, or was I moving a little too fast when I was coming back from New York?

3 minutes looks right
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/39.6968907,-75.3982433/39.6858406,-75.4478157/@39.6910479,-75.4340908,14.17z/data=!4m2!4m1!3e0

Yep - the Service Plaza is at MP 5.3, the toll plaza is 2.4.  Normal travel time should be right around 3 minutes.

[Alps]

I have a question; Does a drive between the Clara Barton Service Area and the main toll plaza normally take three minutes, or was I moving a little too fast when I was coming back from New York?

3 minutes looks right
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/39.6968907,-75.3982433/39.6858406,-75.4478157/@39.6910479,-75.4340908,14.17z/data=!4m2!4m1!3e0

Yep - the Service Plaza is at MP 5.3, the toll plaza is 2.4.  Normal travel time should be right around 3 minutes.

2 minutes if you've got Maryland plates.

[bluecountry]

So around MM78 on the NJTP there is an abandoned paved roadway within the ROW.  What's up with that stretch?

[famartin]

So around MM78 on the NJTP there is an abandoned paved roadway within the ROW.  What's up with that stretch?

I presume you mean this.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Middlesex+County,+NJ/@40.4178886,-74.445808,287m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x89c3dca9b565b9e1:0xfbff002a91109cd1!8m2!3d40.4111363!4d-74.3587473

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4157456,-74.4463404,3a,75y,56.52h,89.42t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sWYbHEeHaeZUjfqFy3xWRHg!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DWYbHEeHaeZUjfqFy3xWRHg%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D221.21819%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192

I'm guessing a realignment involved with roadway widening at some point, but someone else may have more details. Looks like it now used for something else, perhaps testing paint or paving, practice painting?

[1995hoo]

That was the original carriageway. Recall that what the Turnpike Authority refers to as the "dual-dual" system (what most drivers refer to as the "car lanes" and the "truck lanes," even though that's not strictly accurate) used to terminate, or begin, further to the north. When I was a kid that system's southbound end/northbound beginning was just south of Exit 9, which is north of the location seen in those two links. When they extended the system south to just below Exit 8A sometime in the 1980s, they wanted to preserve access to the service area for traffic on either carriageway and so built the flyover ramps; those, in turns resulted in the abandonment of the pavement between those ramps. I assume the reason for doing it that way has to do with right-of-way issues as to what exactly the Turnpike Authority owned (because it's always easier to proceed within what they have than to go through the eminent domain process).

[SignBridge]

I seem to remember reading somewhere that abandoned stretch of road is used for state trooper training and maybe other things. I think they use that roadway to enact real-life scenarios in a realistic environment.

Maybe jeffandnicole could tell us more about that?

[jeffandnicole]

I seem to remember reading somewhere that abandoned stretch of road is used for state trooper training and maybe other things. I think they use that roadway to enact real-life scenarios in a realistic environment.

Maybe jeffandnicole could tell us more about that?

Not familiar with anything like that up there.

[Alps]

I seem to remember reading somewhere that abandoned stretch of road is used for state trooper training and maybe other things. I think they use that roadway to enact real-life scenarios in a realistic environment.

Maybe jeffandnicole could tell us more about that?

Um no... it's mostly taken up by overpasses. Not much you can do on it.

[Steve D]

I seem to remember reading somewhere that abandoned stretch of road is used for state trooper training and maybe other things. I think they use that roadway to enact real-life scenarios in a realistic environment.

Maybe jeffandnicole could tell us more about that?

Um no... it's mostly taken up by overpasses. Not much you can do on it.

It has been used to test paint and striping on the pavement.  The NJTP is very good at removing old bridges / roadways / materials during re-construction.  This section was definitely intended to be re-used. 

[Alps]

I seem to remember reading somewhere that abandoned stretch of road is used for state trooper training and maybe other things. I think they use that roadway to enact real-life scenarios in a realistic environment.

Maybe jeffandnicole could tell us more about that?

Um no... it's mostly taken up by overpasses. Not much you can do on it.

It has been used to test paint and striping on the pavement.  The NJTP is very good at removing old bridges / roadways / materials during re-construction.  This section was definitely intended to be re-used. 

Right, that's about all there's room for, not testing police cars.

[SignBridge]

I seem to remember training, not testing cars. Like simulating doing car stops, arrests, handling simulated accidents, stuff like that, if I remember right.

[Alps]

I seem to remember training, not testing cars. Like simulating doing car stops, arrests, handling simulated accidents, stuff like that, if I remember right.

They may do that at night with a roadway closed, but I can't see them doing that in the travel ROW during daylight.

[SignBridge]

I seem to remember training, not testing cars. Like simulating doing car stops, arrests, handling simulated accidents, stuff like that, if I remember right.

They may do that at night with a roadway closed, but I can't see them doing that in the travel ROW during daylight.

Alps, please see reply #4388. I'm not talking about an active roadway. I'm referring to the section of permanently closed roadway that was spoken about above. Someone asked what the status of that unused roadway was.

[Alps]

I seem to remember training, not testing cars. Like simulating doing car stops, arrests, handling simulated accidents, stuff like that, if I remember right.

They may do that at night with a roadway closed, but I can't see them doing that in the travel ROW during daylight.

Alps, please see reply #4388. I'm not talking about an active roadway. I'm referring to the section of permanently closed roadway that was spoken about above. Someone asked what the status of that unused roadway was.

I know, but if they are doing drills on that roadway, it is very visible to traffic in at least the Inner Roadway (which is where I've noticed it most). I would expect they would do exercises in a place that is not along their roadway, given how much they care about traffic safety and minimizing distractions.