What are your thoughts on School Zones?

[agentsteel53]

That school zone almost always has police enforcement because the road is six lanes wide (three each way) and there's a mid-block crosswalk controlled only by a crossing guard during school hours.

that definitely sounds like a "you should not have built a school there".

[1995hoo]

That school zone almost always has police enforcement because the road is six lanes wide (three each way) and there's a mid-block crosswalk controlled only by a crossing guard during school hours.

that definitely sounds like a "you should not have built a school there".

Hard to say. I have no idea how long the school has been there nor whether the road may have been widened at some point after the school was built. I can see on historicaerials.com that the road used to be two lanes (one per side), but there's a 15-year gap in the images.

[vdeane]

If someone is old enough to go to school, they are old enough to use crosswalks correctly.

I'm gonna disagree. Children generally start schooling around age 5 or 6. I doubt many children that young are able to accurately judge the speed at which a vehicle is traveling or how long it would take to bring a vehicle to a stop.

Obviously kids that young should have adult supervision, but even then there's still a pretty high likelihood of a kid stepping out into the street when they shouldn't.

When I was that young I knew to look both ways, cross only when there's no car in sight (or the only cars are very far away) and to run across.  I've always assumed that it's the way I was raised.  Am I just weird?

My grandparents also didn't allow me (or my cousins) to play near the road without adult supervision.

[US81]

That school zone almost always has police enforcement because the road is six lanes wide (three each way) and there's a mid-block crosswalk controlled only by a crossing guard during school hours.

that definitely sounds like a "you should not have built a school there".

Hard to say. I have no idea how long the school has been there nor whether the road may have been widened at some point after the school was built. I can see on historicaerials.com that the road used to be two lanes (one per side), but there's a 15-year gap in the images.

Agreed - the school certainly may have been there first and the increased traffic and road expansion come after. Also, isn't that where schools need to be, where children and their families live?

[agentsteel53]

Agreed - the school certainly may have been there first and the increased traffic and road expansion come after. Also, isn't that where schools need to be, where children and their families live?

people generally don't live on six-lane arterials.  usually their neighborhood roads are divided off by access limitations.

[kphoger]

If someone is old enough to go to school, they are old enough to use crosswalks correctly.  If they don't want to, that's there choice

If someone is old enough to go to school, they're old enough to use "their" correctly. Look what I did there...

If someone is old enough to drive a car, their old enough to know there suppose to yield to pedestrians in crosswalks.  If they don't want to, thats they're choice.

It's tough to yield to a pedestrian when the pedestrian has stepped out in traffic less than 15 flipping feet from you.  The yield/stop should be for those who entered the crosswalk then the street was clear and then a car came up upon the crosswalk.  It should not be for the brain-dead who step out thinking cars will magically stop for them.

As for the law:  A driver is required to yield to pedestrians in crosswalks, period.  One toe in your lane means you're required to yield.  This is even true for cases where the pedestrian didn't use a crosswalk.  The law doesn't let you decide the street wasn't clear enough when the pedestrian stepped out and just not yield to him.  Treat every crosswalk as a "Yield to pedestrians" sign.

As for common sense:  If there's someone at a crosswalk (or even not), close to the curb, who looks like he wants to cross the street–then you, as a driver, should be prepared for him to step into the crosswalk at any time.  It's called defensive driving.

[1995hoo]

Agreed - the school certainly may have been there first and the increased traffic and road expansion come after. Also, isn't that where schools need to be, where children and their families live?

people generally don't live on six-lane arterials.  usually their neighborhood roads are divided off by access limitations.

That particular road has quite a few houses on it. But, as I noted above, once upon a time it was two lanes.

[Alps]

If someone is old enough to go to school, they are old enough to use crosswalks correctly.

I'm gonna disagree. Children generally start schooling around age 5 or 6. I doubt many children that young are able to accurately judge the speed at which a vehicle is traveling or how long it would take to bring a vehicle to a stop.

Obviously kids that young should have adult supervision, but even then there's still a pretty high likelihood of a kid stepping out into the street when they shouldn't.

When I was that young I knew to look both ways, cross only when there's no car in sight (or the only cars are very far away) and to run across.  I've always assumed that it's the way I was raised.  Am I just weird?

Yes. You should never run across the street, you might trip. Always walk, and if you can't walk, you shouldn't be crossing at that time.

[Kacie Jane]

As for the law:  A driver is required to yield to pedestrians in crosswalks, period.  One toe in your lane means you're required to yield.

One toe within one lane of your half of the roadway means you're required to yield.  (Another good reason to walk, it gives drivers more time to see you and stop, rather than if you just dart across all willy-nilly.)

[kj3400]

As for common sense:  If there's someone at a crosswalk (or even not), close to the curb, who looks like he wants to cross the street– then you, as a driver, should be prepared for him to step into the crosswalk at any time.  It's called defensive driving.

In my opinion, common sense would dictate one shouldn't be crossing a busy road if it's obvious a bunch of cars are coming. But I'm more of a pedestrian than a driver anyway, so maybe it's me.

[theline]

As for common sense:  If there's someone at a crosswalk (or even not), close to the curb, who looks like he wants to cross the street– then you, as a driver, should be prepared for him to step into the crosswalk at any time.  It's called defensive driving.

In my opinion, common sense would dictate one shouldn't be crossing a busy road if it's obvious a bunch of cars are coming. But I'm more of a pedestrian than a driver anyway, so maybe it's me.

Caution is called for by both the driver and the pedestrian. I'm 62 years old, and I made it this far without killing myself or anyone else by always assuming that the other guy is likely to do some dumb-ass thing at any moment. Defensive driving and defensive walking are highly recommended.

[bugo]

I like Oklahoma's school zones because there are almost always flashing lights when the school speed limit is in effect.  There are also "END SCHOOL ZONE" signs.  Arkansas uses signs that say "WHEN CHILDREN ARE PRESENT" and rarely has the flashing lights, which I hate.

[6a]

I like Oklahoma's school zones because there are almost always flashing lights when the school speed limit is in effect.  There are also "END SCHOOL ZONE" signs.  Arkansas uses signs that say "WHEN CHILDREN ARE PRESENT" and rarely has the flashing lights, which I hate.

Agreed. We have a bunch of "DURING RESTRICTED HOURS" signs that irk the shit out of me every time I see them.  Obviously if I see a bunch of kids milling about I'm going to pay attention, but holy hell I can just see some cop writing a ticket for speeding when a basketball game is in progress.

[jeffandnicole]

I like Oklahoma's school zones because there are almost always flashing lights when the school speed limit is in effect.  There are also "END SCHOOL ZONE" signs.  Arkansas uses signs that say "WHEN CHILDREN ARE PRESENT" and rarely has the flashing lights, which I hate.

Agreed. We have a bunch of "DURING RESTRICTED HOURS" signs that irk the shit out of me every time I see them.  Obviously if I see a bunch of kids milling about I'm going to pay attention, but holy hell I can just see some cop writing a ticket for speeding when a basketball game is in progress.

You may want to find out if it's a Police Athletic League game.  Nothing's worse than a cop that's fouled out.  He's just looking to take it out on someone!

[CrossCountryRoads]

New York City generally doesn't post reduced speed limits for school zones or even necessarily provide any warning whatsoever that there is a school around. The kids somehow manage to survive. And most of them walk to school and have to cross the street!

I don't mind "school zone" as a warning sign but reducing the regulatory speed limit is silly. Kids do not have speed limits reduced for them when they cross the street anywhere else, why is in front of the school special?

All that said, elementary schools having crossing guards is something I support if the intersection is not signalized. (if it's signalized, the kids can wait for the light, and having the guard go against the light just ties up traffic)

This.  Pretty much the point I was trying to make but didn't articulate as well as you did in this post.

[silverback1065]

School zones are worthless

[ibagli]

The high/middle school in my community has a school zone around the road entrance but not around the sidewalk that carries most of the foot traffic.

It could be, and was, worse. It was shortened by a quarter of a mile a few years ago. Right now, the east end is at the sharp turn by the football field. It used to be at the exit of the condo complex north of the schools.

[DandyDan]

I think the optimal policy should be what some cities in Nebraska do, which is have a traffic light on the road at the school crossing.  They are activated by someone hitting the walk button.   Of course, not all kids do that, but if you could get them to do that, and only cross at the light, it would save a lot of trouble.

Another thing they do here in Nebraska is the pedestrian bridge over the road, although it's been years since Omaha built a new one.  La Vista did build one early in the 2000's by G. Stanley Hall Elementary on 72nd St. (a major thoroughfare).  I'm not sure whether they have any in the part of Nebraska outside the Omaha area, but I know that particular one always has kids in it (it's covered) when school lets out.

[ilvny]

I know that school zones exist to keep school students safe, but I find them annoying.

The school zone speed limit in Pennsylvania is 15 mph.  The schools in my area have large expanses of land, and the buildings are far from the street.

The elementary schools (grades K-5) have schoolyards that are fenced in and have grass in between the fence and the street.  The schools off of main roads have crossing guards, so the traffic already has to stop to let the children cross.

Elementary schools are the worst with school zones, because the 15 mph speed limit is active several times a day, "during opening, closing, and recess," as the signs say.

The middle schools (6-8) are also far from the street.  The high school in my area is very far from the street, but that doesn't bother me because I don't drive past it on a regular basis and most of the traffic on the road just goes to and from the school, since the road dead ends past the school.

There are very few students that walk to school in my area; most of them ride school buses, so there aren't that many children crossing the streets.  The walkers either walk or get a ride from a parent.

I hate it when I drive in an active school zone (lights flashing and "15" lit) and there are no students anywhere.  I'm like, "Why the heck am I slowing down?"

This one school zone in my area is almost always active.  I can never predict when it's going to be active.  I drive past this elementary school once a week when I give a friend a ride home and the 15 mph speed limit is always in effect at that time.  The road I drive on is one lane in each direction and its regular speed limit is 35. 

It can be 11:30, 11:40, or 11:50, and it'll be active.  Depending on the time, the kids are either at recess or lining up to go back to class.  The time I passed the school at 11:50, nobody was outside and the weather was fine.  Last week, I drove past it a few minutes earlier and there were no students outside.  I think they had indoor recess since there was snow on the grass.

The absolute most annoying thing about the school zones is this:
When school is closed for an inservice, holiday, break, bad weather, etc, nobody turns off the signs.  That means I'm driving 15 mph just because the signs are on.  The electronic signs appear to be controlled by a box on the pole.  If they could be controlled remotely by the schools, they could be adjusted easily for non-school days, inclement weather closings/delayed openings/early dismissals, and other things.

I understand the need for active school zones during opening and closing, but is it really necessary during recess?  Especially in rural areas where the schoolyard is fenced in and a distance away from the street?

[US81]

I hate it when I drive in an active school zone (lights flashing and "15" lit) and there are no students anywhere.  I'm like, "Why the heck am I slowing down?"

The absolute most annoying thing about the school zones is this:
When school is closed for an inservice, holiday, break, bad weather, etc, nobody turns off the signs.  That means I'm driving 15 mph just because the signs are on.

This is true where I live as well, with signs that explicitly say "school zone"..."when lights are flashing."   It is annoying to know that it's spring break, summer recess or whatever, and yet the law - with the high-priced penalties - is still the law. Conversely, sometimes one drives past a school that is clearly in session, children everywhere and yet the lights are not flashing. Somehow I suspect the law is still enforced.

[vdeane]

In NY we don't even have flashers most of the time - it's just 15/20 any time between 6 AM and 6 PM Mon-Fri (sometimes "school days").

[Billy F 1988]

School zones are worthless

Wait a second. Where's the logic behind this? Why do you think school zones are worthless? They're actually necessary for the safety of children and parents crossing the arterial. What if that was your child going through a crosswalk in a 25 MPH school zone and some dummy blasts the red light at 40 and hits your child? See where I'm getting at?

[silverback1065]

School zones are worthless

Wait a second. Where's the logic behind this? Why do you think school zones are worthless? They're actually necessary for the safety of children and parents crossing the arterial. What if that was your child going through a crosswalk in a 25 MPH school zone and some dummy blasts the red light at 40 and hits your child? See where I'm getting at?

They're worthless in most instances because children are usually never outside all day (at least where I live), I agree they are useful in those instances you mentioned.  I think that they are useful in the instances where the sign says, "when children are present" I don't like the ones that say "7am to 4:30pm" There's no need for it to be all day, children aren't outside all day.  I'm sure you totally disagree with my opinion though.

[agentsteel53]

School zones are worthless

Their worthless

let me guess; you think schools are worthless too.

[ilvny]

In NY we don't even have flashers most of the time - it's just 15/20 any time between 6 AM and 6 PM Mon-Fri (sometimes "school days").

Is this New York City?  I'd hate to have to drive slower like that during that time period, since most of my driving is in the morning and afternoon.