New York State Thruway

[webny99]

As for rerouting I-90, debatable if it's fictional or not, since it has actually been proposed to do just that at least once.

It has? What would current free 90 have been numbered? (I personally am very much in favor of freeing up I-390 for use there.)

I-88. There would have been a concurrency from 25A to 24.

Got it. I still think I-390 is better though 
Was I-88 also supposed to, at one time, be extended into Vermont, or am I getting mixed up with a true fictional proposal?

[cl94]

Got it. I still think I-390 is better though 
Was I-88 also supposed to, at one time, be extended into Vermont, or am I getting mixed up with a true fictional proposal?

That is real. Would have roughly paralleled NY 7 to I-87, then would have used the NY 7 expressway. During the planning stages, the NY 7 expressway was I-88 and Alternate NY 7. From the east end of the Collar City Bridge, it would have paralleled NY 7 and VT/NH 9. The US 7 / VT 279 interchange may or may not have been constructed with I-88 in mind. I don't know how much of it was really planned east of Bennington. The lack of a toll when traveling between Exit 25A and Exits 24, 25, or 26 is due to I-88 being canceled through eastern Schenectady County.

The NYSDOT logs had I-88 ending at the east end of the Collar City Bridge in Troy until some point in the 80s. Bridge still is part of the Interstate system as unsigned I-787.

[froggie]

I don't know how much of it was really planned east of Bennington.

None.

Bridge still is part of the Interstate system as unsigned I-787.

Half-unsigned.  Westbound (sic "southbound") is signed.

[Roadsguy]

Bridge still is part of the Interstate system as unsigned I-787.

Though it's only unsigned northbound. Westbound on the bridge after the on-ramp has a South I-787/West NY 7 reassurance sign assembly, so it really is signed in one direction technically, unless NYSDOT actually has a specific internal designation for unsigned routes and doesn't just simply not sign them.

[seicer]

It has reference markers for 787 going eastbound on the bridge (northbound 787) - and the last sign is at the eastern terminus of the bridge when it becomes a surface street.

[Rothman]

I even heard I-1090 for replacing free I-90 suggested by a NYSDOT Office Director about 8 years ago or so.

[GenExpwy]

As for rerouting I-90, one problem is that the Castleton bridge does not meet Interstate standards. There is no real barrier down the middle, just the yellow lines and some sort of steel grating.

It seems like I once read somewhere, that putting in a proper Jersey Barrier would require some substantial engineering work, and would cost a lot of money. Anybody know more about that?

[empirestate]

I even heard I-1090 for replacing free I-90 suggested by a NYSDOT Office Director about 8 years ago or so.

Finally, my suggestion is getting some official traction.

[Roadsguy]

Do those movable barriers found on some bridges like the Walt Whitman and Ben Franklin bridges in Philly not meet Interstate standard? They just sit on the road surface, right? Couldn't they just put one of those over the bridge?

Also 4di's should really be considered more for states that are running out of 3di's. Ideally they should mass-renumber all 3dis to feature no repeats, using 4di's when necessary, but that'd cost a ton for little benefit.

[Alps]

As for rerouting I-90, one problem is that the Castleton bridge does not meet Interstate standards. There is no real barrier down the middle, just the yellow lines and some sort of steel grating.

It seems like I once read somewhere, that putting in a proper Jersey Barrier would require some substantial engineering work, and would cost a lot of money. Anybody know more about that?

A concrete barrier is a significant structural dead load. In order to add it to a bridge that wasn't designed for it, usually the weight has to be removed elsewhere. One example is the Mackinac Bridge where one lane of pavement in each direction was replaced with a steel grid. In the Castleton case there is already a steel grid in the center. This would have to be replaced with a substantial concrete deck for transmitting the forces of a barrier (when struck) to the bridge structure and ultimately the ground. One or both lanes in each direction would have to be converted to steel grid to compensate. It may be cheaper to add structural components than replace the deck in that manner, or it may be impossible to do either without essentially replacing the bridge. A structural engineer would have to review the plans and assess current condition.

I even heard I-1090 for replacing free I-90 suggested by a NYSDOT Office Director about 8 years ago or so.

Instead of going to that extreme why not use an x87?

[kalvado]

In the Castleton case there is already a steel grid in the center. This would have to be replaced with a substantial concrete deck for transmitting the forces of a barrier (when struck) to the bridge structure and ultimately the ground. One or both lanes in each direction would have to be converted to steel grid to compensate. It may be cheaper to add structural components than replace the deck in that manner, or it may be impossible to do either without essentially replacing the bridge. A structural engineer would have to review the plans and assess current condition.

WOuld you think the grid comes from previous round of budget cu...  I mean weight cuts?
The only old photo I can find shows something different along the bridge center, as far as I can tell.
Big photo:
http://friendsofschodackisland.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Castleton-Bridge-Aerial.png

[seicer]

Looks the same to me.

The bridge deck looks nice - unlike the current situation. Are there plans to rehabilitate the deck?

[cl94]

A contract went out last year to add a permanent barrier. I do not know what it entails, as the plans are confidential for security reasons.

[empirestate]

I even heard I-1090 for replacing free I-90 suggested by a NYSDOT Office Director about 8 years ago or so.

Instead of going to that extreme why not use an x87?

Because that doesn't satisfyingly take advantage of NY's full suite of x90's. :-)

[Beltway]

A concrete barrier is a significant structural dead load. In order to add it to a bridge that wasn't designed for it, usually the weight has to be removed elsewhere. One example is the Mackinac Bridge where one lane of pavement in each direction was replaced with a steel grid.

Is that why the Mackinac Bridge still has the original steel pipe parapets and no median barrier?

I thought it was obsolete features that had not been modernized, but if the bridge is not strong enough to handle the load of modern barriers, that is another matter.

[mrsman]

As for rerouting I-90, debatable if it's fictional or not, since it has actually been proposed to do just that at least once.

It has? What would current free 90 have been numbered? (I personally am very much in favor of freeing up I-390 for use there.)

I-88. There would have been a concurrency from 25A to 24.

Got it. I still think I-390 is better though 
Was I-88 also supposed to, at one time, be extended into Vermont, or am I getting mixed up with a true fictional proposal?

IMO this proposal would encourage more traffic to stay off of free 90 as people would follow the numbers from Mass Pike to nythruway on the way from Boston to Buffalo.

Likewise the trend towards AET should encourage more exits that don't require toll booths, especially a direct connection from the Thruway to the northway.

[kalvado]

IMO this proposal would encourage more traffic to stay off of free 90 as people would follow the numbers from Mass Pike to nythruway on the way from Boston to Buffalo.

Which is already done by signs on Thruway; and probably is a good idea - during daytime anyway. Mileage may be lower on free I-90, but time-wise it may easily be the other way around.

[webny99]

IMO this proposal would encourage more traffic to stay off of free 90 as people would follow the numbers from Mass Pike to nythruway on the way from Boston to Buffalo.

Which is already done by signs on Thruway; and probably is a good idea - during daytime anyway. Mileage may be lower on free I-90, but time-wise it may easily be the other way around.

Time savings, convenience, and signage are all factors that work towards people staying off of free 90. Doing so saves two toll booths, as well. I wouldn't be surprised if as much of 80-90% of non-roadgeek through traffic stays on the thruway.

[roadman]

One example is the Mackinac Bridge where one lane of pavement in each direction was replaced with a steel grid

Actually, the steel grid deck on the inner lanes of the Mackinac Bridge suspension span dates from when the structure was originally built.  The intent was to minimize possible effects from wind on the bridge deck (memories of the original Tacoma Narrows Bridge failure were still fresh in the minds of the Mackinac designers).

[route17fan]

I-95 New England Thruway reconstruction project - D214568 - 3 volumes of plans! TANE 18-7/D214568 - RECONSTRUCTION OF THE NEW ENGLAND THRUWAY (I-95) FROM MP NE 14.1 TO MP NE 15.0, REPLACEMENT TWO BRIDGES, RAMP B OVER I-95 AT MP NE 14.24 AND GRACE CHURCH STREET OVER I-95 AT MP NE 14.46, REHABILITATION OF FOUR BRIDGES, I-95 OVER THE BLIND BROOK AT MP NE 13.34, I-95 OVER PURCHASE STREET AT MP NE 13.48, BOSTON POST ROAD OVER I-95 AT MP NE 13.71 AND I-95 OVER THE BYRAM RIVER AT MP NE 14.93 IN WESTCHESTER COUNTY
Volume 1: http://www.thruway.ny.gov/netdata/contractors/documents/d214568_tane18-7_plans-volume-1-of-3.pdf
Volume 2: http://www.thruway.ny.gov/netdata/contractors/documents/d214568_tane18-7_plans-volume-2-of-3.pdf
Volume 3: http://www.thruway.ny.gov/netdata/contractors/documents/d214568_tane18-7_plans-volume-3-of-3.pdf

[dgolub]

I-95 New England Thruway reconstruction project - D214568 - 3 volumes of plans! TANE 18-7/D214568 - RECONSTRUCTION OF THE NEW ENGLAND THRUWAY (I-95) FROM MP NE 14.1 TO MP NE 15.0, REPLACEMENT TWO BRIDGES, RAMP B OVER I-95 AT MP NE 14.24 AND GRACE CHURCH STREET OVER I-95 AT MP NE 14.46, REHABILITATION OF FOUR BRIDGES, I-95 OVER THE BLIND BROOK AT MP NE 13.34, I-95 OVER PURCHASE STREET AT MP NE 13.48, BOSTON POST ROAD OVER I-95 AT MP NE 13.71 AND I-95 OVER THE BYRAM RIVER AT MP NE 14.93 IN WESTCHESTER COUNTY
Volume 1: http://www.thruway.ny.gov/netdata/contractors/documents/d214568_tane18-7_plans-volume-1-of-3.pdf
Volume 2: http://www.thruway.ny.gov/netdata/contractors/documents/d214568_tane18-7_plans-volume-2-of-3.pdf
Volume 3: http://www.thruway.ny.gov/netdata/contractors/documents/d214568_tane18-7_plans-volume-3-of-3.pdf

Any word on when work is supposed to start?  I'm planning to take a trip to New Haven to visit a friend who lives up there, probably some time over the next month or so.  It would be great to get some good before photos prior to the commencement of the project.

[vdeane]

Volume 1, Page 175: interesting that it still says Tappan Zee.

[PHLBOS]

Volume 1, Page 175: interesting that it still says Tappan Zee.

A couple pages beforehand (Vol 1, Page 171); one BGS lists Cross Westchester Expressway with no I-287 shield.

[BamaZeus]

It appears to me that NY will take care of the entire Byram bridge into CT (volume 1, pg 34), even though the state line is halfway across the river.  I wonder if CT is contributing anything to the project, or there is some sort of deal where they get it the next time they repave the bottom part of the Turnpike.

[route17fan]

Interesting that on one of the sign data sheets, it says "Tappen Zee Br"  (page and volume coming shortly)