Logo signs thread

[Pink Jazz]

In Arizona, for rural areas, the price for a freeway sign is $126/month per mainline sign and $19/month per ramp sign and trailblazer signs.  For rural arterials, the price is $46/month.

Urban areas (defined as Phoenix, Tucson, Yuma, Flagstaff, and Casa Grande), on the other hand, use bidirectional annual pricing based on traffic with mainline, ramp, and trailblazers all included ranging from $1680/year to $6540/year.  At select exits with a high concentration of businesses where sign space is limited, GCSLS may elect to do a competitive bid, where sign placement is awarded to the highest bidders.  If an exit can only fit signs in one direction, businesses who get unidirectional signs pay half price.

[hbelkins]

Winery signage is getting to be more and more popular in more and more states. Wonder when the microbrewery industry will demand similar treatment?

[oscar]

Winery signage is getting to be more and more popular in more and more states. Wonder when the microbrewery industry will demand similar treatment?

Winery signage seems to be mainly in rural areas. How common are micro-breweries in rural areas, where logo signs are more prevalent, and the brew places aren't competing for logo sign space with many other attractions?

Not the same, but the Route 11 potato chip factory off I-81 in rural Virginia got space on a logo sign (along with a flea market, and some other kind of place). It's on a sign for "attractions", even though you can buy potato chips there.

[Pink Jazz]

Winery signage is getting to be more and more popular in more and more states. Wonder when the microbrewery industry will demand similar treatment?

Winery signage seems to be mainly in rural areas. How common are micro-breweries in rural areas, where logo signs are more prevalent, and the brew places aren't competing for logo sign space with many other attractions?

Not the same, but the Route 11 potato chip factory off I-81 in rural Virginia got space on a logo sign (along with a flea market, and some other kind of place). It's on a sign for "attractions", even though you can buy potato chips there.

Yep, and some states still don't allow logo signs in urban areas.  Even in states that do allow them in urban areas, there must be enough space between exits in order not to conflict with other signs.  This is particularly an issue near some dense downtown areas which is why often you won't see logo signs in those areas even in states that allow logo signs in urban areas.

[Pink Jazz]

I plan to compile a list of states that allow logo signs in urban areas or rural areas only, or no logo signs at all.  I would like to create a map for Wikipedia.

Here is what I know:

Urban and Rural:

• Arizona
• Colorado
• Florida
• Georgia
• Iowa
• Louisiana
• Massachusetts
• Minnesota
• Nevada
• New Jersey
• North Carolina
• Oregon
• Tennessee
• Texas
• Utah
• Virginia
• Washington
• Wisconsin

Rural Only:

• California
• Illinois
• Maine
• Maryland
• New Mexico (legally allows them in urban areas, but has none installed)
• New York
• South Carolina
• Wyoming

Freeway Ramps Only:

• Vermont

No Logo Signs:

• Alaska
• Hawaii
• North Dakota
• Puerto Rico

Unknown:

• Alabama
• Arkansas
• Connecticut
• Delaware
• Idaho
• Indiana
• Kansas
• Kentucky
• Michigan
• Mississippi
• Missouri
• Montana
• Nebraska
• New Hampshire
• Ohio
• Oklahoma
• Pennsylvania
• Rhode Island
• South Dakota
• West Virginia

[Great Lakes Roads]

I plan to compile a list of states that allow logo signs in urban areas or rural areas only, or no logo signs at all.  I would like to create a map for Wikipedia.

Here is what I know:

Urban and Rural:

• Arizona
• Colorado
• Florida
• Georgia
• Iowa
• Louisiana
• Massachusetts
• Minnesota
• Nevada
• New Jersey
• North Carolina
• Oregon
• Tennessee
• Texas
• Utah
• Virginia
• Washington
• Wisconsin

Rural Only:

• California
• Illinois
• Maine
• Maryland
• New Mexico (legally allows them in urban areas, but has none installed)
• New York
• South Carolina
• Wyoming

Freeway Ramps Only:

• Vermont

No Logo Signs:

• Alaska
• Hawaii
• North Dakota
• Puerto Rico

Unknown:

• Alabama
• Arkansas
• Connecticut
• Delaware
• Idaho
• Indiana
• Kansas
• Kentucky
• Michigan
• Mississippi
• Missouri
• Montana
• Nebraska
• New Hampshire
• Ohio
• Oklahoma
• Pennsylvania
• Rhode Island
• South Dakota
• West Virginia

Add Indiana into the Urban and Rural list...

Here is a website that might help you with some states that we don't know yet (not all states are on that website)...
https://www.interstatelogos.com/

[roadman]

North Carolina has a brochure here:  https://connect.ncdot.gov/resources/safety/Signing%20and%20Delineation%20Library/Logo%20Program%20Informational%20Brochure.pdf

In short, it's $300 annual per sign, typically $1200 total for four signs per interchange.

South Carolina, on the other hand, charges by interchange traffic, thus can be from $1000 to $2,500 a year.  Here is their link:  http://www.scdot.org/getting/logoProgram.aspx

But if you ever pass a sign for a winery that's white with a cluster of grapes, those signs cost over $50,000 believe it or not. That's what NCDOT says it costs for their (high) standards that include concrete footings, sign fabrication,etc.

I couldn't believe it but I read official documents. I'll add a link if I can find it.

$50K per sign installation?  I find that price incredibly hard to believe, even if it is "per interchange" instead of "per sign."  Typical costs in Massachusetts for a "per interchange" installation (2 mainline signs and 2 ramp signs) range between $9K and $13K - the variability is due to slope conditions and panel size.

Update:  Google search found this 2015 study of NC's Agricultural Sign Program (which includes the winery signs).  Average ten year cost for a freeway sign installation (per sign) is just under $15K (including annual fees).  This is reasonable for extruded panel signs on steel beam posts.  https://libres.uncg.edu/ir/uncg/f/J_Bhadury_NC_2015.pdf

[jeffandnicole]

I plan to compile a list of states that allow logo signs in urban areas or rural areas only, or no logo signs at all.  I would like to create a map for Wikipedia.

Unknown:

• Delaware

I'd put Delaware in the Urban/Rural category, as they have them on 95 and 495 in Wilmington. (ie, 95 South approaching Rt. 202: https://goo.gl/maps/uYvMXPAP1qS2 )

[mrcmc888]

Tennessee does not make the fee for posting your business on the sign public.  All I can guess is that it's a lot, since there are many blue signs in the state with just 1 or 2 entries.  There are even several near me that are totally empty, and I live in a very populated area.

[Pink Jazz]

Tennessee does not make the fee for posting your business on the sign public.  All I can guess is that it's a lot, since there are many blue signs in the state with just 1 or 2 entries.  There are even several near me that are totally empty, and I live in a very populated area.

Tennessee switched contractors in 2016 from Law Signs Inc. to Tennessee Logos Inc., and I have read that they did increase their prices with the contractor switch.  However, I think TDOT's share of the total revenue was increased under this new contract.  Also, Tennessee is the most recent state to launch an urban logo sign program, and the urban program was launched alongside the contractor switch.  Tennessee's urban program requires an opt-in by cities.  Note that there are no logo signs installed within the actual city limits of Nashville or Memphis (however Knoxville has them), but most of the suburbs have them installed.

[abefroman329]

For the longest time, GA wouldn't put Chick-fil-A on their signs because they were closed on Sundays. Eventually they relented, but included CLOSED SUNDAYS above the logo.

[Pink Jazz]

For the longest time, GA wouldn’t put Chick-fil-A on their signs because they were closed on Sundays. Eventually they relented, but included CLOSED SUNDAYS above the logo.

This was actually changed in the 2000 MUTCD, along with the reduction from three meals per day to two.  However, some states may have stricter rules than what the MUTCD prescribes; I know NYSDOT still gives priority to restaurants that serve three meals per day.  Also, one state I know (Minnesota) specifically bans ice cream shops from the program.

[abefroman329]

For the longest time, GA wouldn't put Chick-fil-A on their signs because they were closed on Sundays. Eventually they relented, but included CLOSED SUNDAYS above the logo.

This was actually changed in the 2000 MUTCD, along with the reduction from three meals per day to two.  However, some states may have stricter rules than what the MUTCD prescribes; I know NYSDOT still gives priority to restaurants that serve three meals per day.  Also, one state I know (Minnesota) specifically bans ice cream shops from the program.

Ah, I see. I don't rely on the blue signs as much as I used to, now that I have the iExit app.

[mrcmc888]

Tennessee does not make the fee for posting your business on the sign public.  All I can guess is that it's a lot, since there are many blue signs in the state with just 1 or 2 entries.  There are even several near me that are totally empty, and I live in a very populated area.

Tennessee switched contractors in 2016 from Law Signs Inc. to Tennessee Logos Inc., and I have read that they did increase their prices with the contractor switch.  However, I think TDOT's share of the total revenue was increased under this new contract.  Also, Tennessee is the most recent state to launch an urban logo sign program, and the urban program was launched alongside the contractor switch.  Tennessee's urban program requires an opt-in by cities.  Note that there are no logo signs installed within the actual city limits of Nashville or Memphis (however Knoxville has them), but most of the suburbs have them installed.

Knoxville has had the logo signs for years, but its local businesses don't really want to put themselves on the signs.  I don't really think it has much to do with the urban logo signs being recently approved or anything.  I-75 from Knoxville to Chattanooga is a wasteland of empty Big Blue Signs.

[Pink Jazz]

I wonder why Tennessee is having such a poor retention rate with its logo sign program.  Here in Arizona the logo sign program continues to be strong, with very few empty signs except in some really far flung areas with only one business at the exit.  In fact, the switch from an outside vendor to in-house operation I think increased participation of the program, since ADOT gets 100% of the revenue.

[wriddle082]

Ok so I brought this up in a different thread but it belongs here as well...

Anybody know why Florida's logo signs are the only signs the state posts that are extruded panel?  All of FL's other big freeway signs are flat or segmental panel with z-bars for attaching to posts.  Could this be because of them subbing out their logo sign program?

[Pink Jazz]

Ok so I brought this up in a different thread but it belongs here as well...

Anybody know why Florida's logo signs are the only signs the state posts that are extruded panel?  All of FL's other big freeway signs are flat or segmental panel with z-bars for attaching to posts.  Could this be because of them subbing out their logo sign program?

Virginia's contractor is owned by the same parent company (Interstate Logos) yet uses incremental panels.  My guess is that FDOT requested the use of extruded panels due to their easier and quicker sign expandability compared to incremental panels, since if a logo sign needs to be expanded to fit another row of logos more extruded panels can easily be added to an existing sign.

[roadman]

Ok so I brought this up in a different thread but it belongs here as well...

Anybody know why Florida’s logo signs are the only signs the state posts that are extruded panel?  All of FL’s other big freeway signs are flat or segmental panel with z-bars for attaching to posts.  Could this be because of them subbing out their logo sign program?

Virginia's contractor is owned by the same parent company (Interstate Logos) yet uses incremental panels.  My guess is that FDOT requested the use of extruded panels due to their easier and quicker sign expandability compared to incremental panels, since if a logo sign needs to be expanded to fit another row of logos more extruded panels can easily be added to an existing sign.

Interstate Logos is simply a management company for the applications and annual fees.  Sign fabrication and installation is still left up to local DOT approved contractors.

[Mergingtraffic]

http://www.ct.gov/dot/cwp/view.asp?A=1394&Q=259522

http://www.ct.gov/dot/cwp/view.asp?a=3199&Q=514660&PM=1

IDK if CT differentiates between urban and rural but they do it by interchange spacing.
Also a $2000 application fee..nonrefundable.  yikes!

I guess a business as to find their own contractor to make the sign (if they're the first one) (it has to follow CT standards) I thought the business just paid the DOT and the DOT erected it.

[Pink Jazz]

Note that one part of Arizona where there seems to be a reduction of participation is Yuma.  Perhaps the shift from rural to urban pricing might be hurting participation there, since Yuma has long been part of the rural program prior to the launch of Arizona's urban program.  Yuma, Flagstaff, and Casa Grande have been shifted to the urban program.

[Pink Jazz]

Note that GCSLS used to have logo signs for Exit 122 on I-15 in Mesquite, Nevada on the Arizona side of the border, however, apparently, it looks like they have been removed.  Nevada's logo sign contractor Nevada Logos shows their logo signs on the ramps, but none on the mainline in the southbound direction.

[Mergingtraffic]

In CT for the logo services, a business has to find their own contractor to make the sign (if they're the first one) (it has to follow CT standards) and pay for it. The DOT only says where it should go. If a 2nd business wants to get their logo they pay the business a portion or something like that.

However for ATTRACTIONS the DOT covers all unless an attraction wants their specific logo. Then the attraction just pays for that one logo panel.

The restrictions on the placement of services logo signs  are much more stringent than the ATTRACTIONS signs.

Also there aren't signs at every interchange only when a business wants one at an allowable interchange. NY they're up at everyone almost even with nothing on it.

Are most states the same?

[Pink Jazz]

Going back to this topic, with the COVID-19 pandemic, I wonder if this could potentially influence some states into changing their rules on what areas logo signs can be installed, lifting the pre-2000 MUTCD restrictions that only allowed them in rural areas.  Some of these businesses need help, and allowing logo signs in urban areas can bring in business during this pandemic.  In addition, states can also potentially give special discounts to locally-owned restaurants.

[wanderer2575]

An interesting occurrence is on I-275 for the US-12 Michigan Avenue exit in Canton, MI.  There is a McDonald's 0.3 mile to the east and another 2.5 miles to the west, and there are two McDonald's logos on the same mainline sign in each direction of I-275.  I guess Interstate Logos wasn't willing to offer them a discount for only one mainline logo with two ramp logos.

[marleythedog]

An interesting occurrence is on I-275 for the US-12 Michigan Avenue exit in Canton, MI.  There is a McDonald's 0.3 mile to the east and another 2.5 miles to the west, and there are two McDonald's logos on the same mainline sign in each direction of I-275.  I guess Interstate Logos wasn't willing to offer them a discount for only one mainline logo with two ramp logos.

I've seen this several places in Ohio; most often it's that there's a Speedway on either side of the exit. It does look funny to see two of the same logo on the mainline. Sometimes they're not even adjacent on the sign.