NYC Roads

[seicer]

The independence that proves nothing. It's unreadable at higher speeds. It's conflicting and confusing. I am generally pretty adept at reading signs - travel enough, and have EZ-Pass, so I'm not foreign to the concept. But twice I've been through there and can't make out heads-or-tails about it.

[Alps]

How wide are some of those lanes on the bridges around NYC? Didn't the Bayonne Bridge have 9' lanes or something?

Goethals was 10 and change with minimal shoulders. That was the worst. Even Outerbridge has a slight advantage though I forget why.

[MikeCL]

The independence that proves nothing. It's unreadable at higher speeds. It's conflicting and confusing. I am generally pretty adept at reading signs - travel enough, and have EZ-Pass, so I'm not foreign to the concept. But twice I've been through there and can't make out heads-or-tails about it.

Same here which is why I decided to ask you here what it was about.

[NoGoodNamesAvailable]

...Passenger cars can handle even 8-foot lanes at high speed without too much problem. The lack of shoulders is a bigger issue imo.

Uh, no they can't.  If we compare this to parking spots: Most parking regulations strive for 10 foot wide spots.  9 foot wide parking stalls are generally allowed but can be a little tight.  8 feet wide and you can barely open the door.  Now try driving along someone when they're barely 12 inches away from you.

I'd like to see an example of a road with 8 foot lanes.

I lowballed by around half a foot, but there are plenty of 8.5—9 foot lanes on arterials where passenger cars are easily able to exceed 50 mph. The Bronx River Parkway around Bronxville and Jamaicaway in Boston come to mind. It's a squeeze and of course suboptimal, but I don't know that 10 foot lanes are "yikes"-worthy.

When Metro-North Railroad bought out most private lots around their stations in the 90s, they tightened all the spaces to 8.5 feet to squeeze out the most parking possible, and it's really not a big deal. Unless two F-350s are parked next to each other, there is more than enough room to get out comfortably. The bigger problem in these lots is the super narrow access aisles, some spaces are almost impossible to back into when all the spaces around it are occupied.

On interstates, yes 12 foot lanes are an appropriate design minimum and we should really be trying to upgrade the substandard sections. But some traffic engineers act like 10 foot lanes on a city street are the end of the world because The Book says they're too narrow, and it can get a little ridiculous.

[storm2k]

...Passenger cars can handle even 8-foot lanes at high speed without too much problem. The lack of shoulders is a bigger issue imo.

Uh, no they can't.  If we compare this to parking spots: Most parking regulations strive for 10 foot wide spots.  9 foot wide parking stalls are generally allowed but can be a little tight.  8 feet wide and you can barely open the door.  Now try driving along someone when they're barely 12 inches away from you.

I'd like to see an example of a road with 8 foot lanes.

I lowballed by around half a foot, but there are plenty of 8.5—9 foot lanes on arterials where passenger cars are easily able to exceed 50 mph. The Bronx River Parkway around Bronxville and Jamaicaway in Boston come to mind. It's a squeeze and of course suboptimal, but I don't know that 10 foot lanes are "yikes"-worthy.

When Metro-North Railroad bought out most private lots around their stations in the 90s, they tightened all the spaces to 8.5 feet to squeeze out the most parking possible, and it's really not a big deal. Unless two F-350s are parked next to each other, there is more than enough room to get out comfortably. The bigger problem in these lots is the super narrow access aisles, some spaces are almost impossible to back into when all the spaces around it are occupied.

On interstates, yes 12 foot lanes are an appropriate design minimum and we should really be trying to upgrade the substandard sections. But some traffic engineers act like 10 foot lanes on a city street are the end of the world because The Book says they're too narrow, and it can get a little ridiculous.

Except we're talking about an interstate highway in this instance? One that serves an enormous amount of truck traffic?

[Rothman]

Bronx River ain't safe.

[Duke87]

I'd like to see an example of a road with 8 foot lanes.

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7123414,-73.9678339,3a,46.5y,304h,89.75t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sM24XMYvfiOonz8Kjdi7gFw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

[bluecountry]

Had a question, does anybody have any information on the reconstruction of the Harlem River Drive, and when it will be complete?  Thanks.

[jeffandnicole]

I'd like to see an example of a road with 8 foot lanes.

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7123414,-73.9678339,3a,46.5y,304h,89.75t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sM24XMYvfiOonz8Kjdi7gFw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

And looking at the taxi here: https://goo.gl/maps/88wa3H33EbQ2 , he's having trouble keeping to his own side of the roadway!

[vdeane]

Given that this is currently a very substandard freeway in NYC and likely ROW-contained, I think I'd take proper shoulders and acceleration/deceleration lanes over widening the travel lanes from 10' to 12', if I had to choose.  Of course, all is ideal.

[Duke87]

I'd like to see an example of a road with 8 foot lanes.

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7123414,-73.9678339,3a,46.5y,304h,89.75t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sM24XMYvfiOonz8Kjdi7gFw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

And looking at the taxi here: https://goo.gl/maps/88wa3H33EbQ2 , he's having trouble keeping to his own side of the roadway!

Functionally, that section of the bridge operates as if it is only one lane on each roadway. It is unusual to see anyone pass anyone else, especially on the inner roadways which feel narrower due to being encaged although I don't think they actually are.

I know not why this absurdity persists, you would think it sensible to restripe those roadways as one lane each with shoulder space. Would likely not cause any capacity issues either, as that is constrained primarily by Delancey Street and secondarily by congestion on the BQE.

[MikeCL]

Does or did this sign ever work? It seems pretty tacky to just leave it up

[MikeCL]

...Passenger cars can handle even 8-foot lanes at high speed without too much problem. The lack of shoulders is a bigger issue imo.

Uh, no they can't.  If we compare this to parking spots: Most parking regulations strive for 10 foot wide spots.  9 foot wide parking stalls are generally allowed but can be a little tight.  8 feet wide and you can barely open the door.  Now try driving along someone when they're barely 12 inches away from you.

I'd like to see an example of a road with 8 foot lanes.

I lowballed by around half a foot, but there are plenty of 8.5—9 foot lanes on arterials where passenger cars are easily able to exceed 50 mph. The Bronx River Parkway around Bronxville and Jamaicaway in Boston come to mind. It's a squeeze and of course suboptimal, but I don't know that 10 foot lanes are "yikes"-worthy.

When Metro-North Railroad bought out most private lots around their stations in the 90s, they tightened all the spaces to 8.5 feet to squeeze out the most parking possible, and it's really not a big deal. Unless two F-350s are parked next to each other, there is more than enough room to get out comfortably. The bigger problem in these lots is the super narrow access aisles, some spaces are almost impossible to back into when all the spaces around it are occupied.

On interstates, yes 12 foot lanes are an appropriate design minimum and we should really be trying to upgrade the substandard sections. But some traffic engineers act like 10 foot lanes on a city street are the end of the world because The Book says they're too narrow, and it can get a little ridiculous.

Speaking of lanes what are the line sizes on the JRP? On the Queens side it's narrow

[Alps]

I'd like to see an example of a road with 8 foot lanes.

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7123414,-73.9678339,3a,46.5y,304h,89.75t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sM24XMYvfiOonz8Kjdi7gFw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

I believe those are 9 foot lanes. Also https://goo.gl/maps/LbTQxEsJJ4F2


(Edit: Used Google measure tool and both come out to 18 foot roadways.)

[MikeCL]

So I suspect the Brooklyn Bridge is around 9 FT as well? I wonder if they finally paved it? The bunch of exposed deck of the bridge I thought was always a little unsettling.

[J N Winkler]

(Edit: Used Google measure tool and both come out to 18 foot roadways.)

I am glad you posted to suggest the Google measure tool.  Yesterday I actually composed a post to ask how many of these candidates for low unit lane width were based on objective sources such as construction plans sets, measurements made by laying a measuring stick perpendicular across a striped lane, etc., but deleted it before committing it because I felt the tone came across as annoyed-sounding and excessively argumentative.

In late 2015, NYSDOT advertised a contract (D262963) for short-term rehabilitation of the Triple Cantilever section that (IIRC) has record plans for the original construction as well as the complete plans for a previous rehabilitation in 2009 (D261302).

[Alias the J]

How wide are some of those lanes on the bridges around NYC? Didn't the Bayonne Bridge have 9' lanes or something?

Goethals was 10 and change with minimal shoulders. That was the worst. Even Outerbridge has a slight advantage though I forget why.

PANYNJ widened the approach spans on the latter from 1962 to 1963 so that the lanes were 12' each.  The Goethals only saw a few parts of the deck on the NJ side widened.

[Mergingtraffic]

Just checked out GSV for I-278 and the Verrazano and noticed it has the updated imagery showing the new layout with cashless tolling.  I did see they have not replaced this sign.



Any construction set up on the Sheridan?  If so where abouts? Are they going north to south?

[Mergingtraffic]

Any construction set up on the Sheridan?  If so where abouts? Are they going north to south?

Nobody has any pics or updates on the Sheridan?  Kinda surprised with all the talk around here. 

[Alps]

Any construction set up on the Sheridan?  If so where abouts? Are they going north to south?

Nobody has any pics or updates on the Sheridan?  Kinda surprised with all the talk around here. 

I don't think anything much is happening yet.

[Rothman]

Any construction set up on the Sheridan?  If so where abouts? Are they going north to south?

Nobody has any pics or updates on the Sheridan?  Kinda surprised with all the talk around here. 

I don't think anything much is happening yet.

Correct.

[AMLNet49]

Just checked out GSV for I-278 and the Verrazano and noticed it has the updated imagery showing the new layout with cashless tolling.  I did see they have not replaced this sign.



Any construction set up on the Sheridan?  If so where abouts? Are they going north to south?

Hope they never do classic gantry and sign

[bluecountry]

When is the Harlem River Drive going to be completed?

[MikeCL]

Why does NYC love to use steel plates in the road? Anyone know if they finished paving 11th ave to The Lincoln tunnel? I messed up my car on one of those huge raised manhole covers like 4-5 weeks ago like a day before that snow storm.

I refuse to go back that way until it's fixed meanwhile at least it forced me to change my exhaust out quicker.

[webny99]

Spent the majority of the last two days in Manhattan.

It was incredible. I have been down there before, but only for sightseeing, and on a Saturday. Totally different ballgame at rush hour on a weekday. Took the Lincoln Tunnel in (and out) on Monday. Took the PIP to GWB inbound this morning and came out via the Holland Tunnel (to return to EWR). Of the four trips (EWR to where we stayed overnight via Manhattan yesterday, and vice versa today), all took over an hour, and this morning had the lightest traffic.

Officially, I could never live in NYC and have to deal with that nightmare. Cool to see, but a beast to deal with. I'll take upstate, thank you very much!