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WV Bond Issue - 2017

Started by SP Cook, February 09, 2017, 10:51:18 AM

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Rothman

Quote from: SP Cook on February 13, 2017, 01:40:21 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on February 13, 2017, 09:35:41 AM
South Charleston has always been curiously named, at least in my eyes. What it's south of is the river. When I think of Charleston, I think of the the area around the 64/77 split, Town Center, the state capitol building, etc. To me, South Charleston should be what's commonly called Kanawha City, and the existing South Charleston should really be East Dunbar.

Quote
Yeah, seems weird that they didn't just call it West Charleston.

It looks that way from the interstate because you first come to South Charleston and then Charleston traveling W to E on I-64, but there is a lot of Charleston you do not see from the interstate.    South Charleston is both south of Charleston (the Charleston neighborhood of North Charleston is directly across the river) and west of Charleston  (the Charleston neighborhood of South Hills).  BTW, there is an island called Blaine Island in the river between South Charleston and North Charleston which is part of South Charleston.  It is covered by part of the Dow Chemical plant and connected to the rest of the plant on the SC side by pipes and walkways.

Meh.  Looks west of Charleston to me and that the argument that it's south of one neighborhood is a bit of a stretch.

Charleston:  https://goo.gl/maps/ESWVdqB1ZTP2

South Charleston:  https://goo.gl/maps/HtLhucTcRC72

Fact of the matter is that it's a misnomer.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.


SP Cook

Quote from: hbelkins on February 13, 2017, 01:34:45 PM

Kentucky eliminated an election cycle back in 1989, when local elected officials were given a one-time-only five-year term. Prior to that, Kentucky had an election every year...

This also saved state and local governments a quarter of their quadrennial election costs.


That was the brainchild of the Blazer family that owned what was then Ashland Oil.   Ashland was always advocating for inproved education in KY and WV.  Some would say because they were really trying to help their home area, other would say because the company found attracting talent to live in the region difficult because prospective employees did not want to send their children to the region's schools.  Probably a bit of both.

One year they canceled the entire company's ad budget and spent the $$ on ads in favor of better schools.  The company also was the origninator of doing away with KY's every year election cycle, with the idea being that the money saved would be spent on schools.  Whether it actually was is, as always, debatable. 

As you know, eventually Ashland got out of the oil business and moved its HQ to suburban Cincinnati. 

As to KY elections (my daughter lives in Lexington) my favorite politican just passed on.  The Fayette County Judge Executive.  His sole campain promise was to work to abolish the office.  The "urban county" governement merger of Fayette County with Lexington in 1974 eliminated 99% of the office's duties, but the state Constitution still requires one be elected. 

Buck87

Quote from: Rothman on February 13, 2017, 01:50:15 PM
Quote from: SP Cook on February 13, 2017, 01:40:21 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on February 13, 2017, 09:35:41 AM
South Charleston has always been curiously named, at least in my eyes. What it's south of is the river. When I think of Charleston, I think of the the area around the 64/77 split, Town Center, the state capitol building, etc. To me, South Charleston should be what's commonly called Kanawha City, and the existing South Charleston should really be East Dunbar.

Quote
Yeah, seems weird that they didn't just call it West Charleston.

It looks that way from the interstate because you first come to South Charleston and then Charleston traveling W to E on I-64, but there is a lot of Charleston you do not see from the interstate.    South Charleston is both south of Charleston (the Charleston neighborhood of North Charleston is directly across the river) and west of Charleston  (the Charleston neighborhood of South Hills).  BTW, there is an island called Blaine Island in the river between South Charleston and North Charleston which is part of South Charleston.  It is covered by part of the Dow Chemical plant and connected to the rest of the plant on the SC side by pipes and walkways.

Meh.  Looks west of Charleston to me and that the argument that it's south of one neighborhood is a bit of a stretch.


Especially since most of it is also north of yet another part of Charleston. Hell, you can even find small parts of South Charleston that are east of parts of Charleston. So I guess we might as well call it N.E.W.S. Charleston. 


Starfighterace

The US 340 between Berryville, Charles Town, and Harper's Ferry is important because of the Casino/Horse Racing Track in Charles Town. The new casino outside of DC is siphoning off many of the customers, so making it easier to get from the I-81 Corridor will make that destination more appealing than dealing with DC Traffic.

I agree the US 522 had needed to be upgraded and a bypass around Berkley Springs is so overdue it's not funny. I have avoided this by taking VA 127/WV9/MD51 to get to I-68 or I-81 to I-70 thru Hagerstown because of the 30-45 min back-ups on weekends.

hbelkins

The issue with US 340 is that even after the section in West Virginia is four-laned, you have the old section in Virginia and the two-lane Potomac River bridge to deal with.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

froggie

QuoteThe issue with US 340 is that even after the section in West Virginia is four-laned, you have the old section in Virginia and the two-lane Potomac River bridge to deal with.

However, that section's general isolation helps it serve as a de-facto limited access route.  Topography would also make it difficult to widen most of the Virginia section.

Starfighterace

US 340 is already 4 lane to Berryville, where it interchanges with VA 7, a 4 lane highway that goes into Winchester. As long as Clarke County continues to think it will be some sort of paradise on earth, that's it far as it goes. A 2 mile section from US 522/340 (4 lane highway) split to US 50/17 (another 4 lane highway) was funded a few years ago to be widened to 4 lane, but Clarke County blocked it. It really wasn't needed anyway. 

SP Cook

Well, after much amendment, the legislature finally passed the bills related to this. 

- The Tax bill, in effect on Saturday raises most DMV fees by between 33% and 50%.  A standard car registration goes from $30 to $50 (with the county school tax on top of that), and the fees are now indexed to inflation.   A new set of alternate fuel fees is added.  $200/year for pure electrics, natural gas or hydrogen, $100/year for hybrids, on top of the $50.  Gas tax formula is changed, will result in about a 10-15 cent increase.  Total tax increase is $130M

- The Turnpike bill, which unfortunatly does not reform or abolish the corrupt turnpike administration, nor do anything about the Scamarack black hole.  Commission is now authorized to set tolls without Legislative approval, and will apparently raise tolls to $9 for a full trip as soon as it can.  The commission is told to "study" the gov's ultra-low free pass idea, and, if it wants, set the price at $25/year.  IMHO, it will never implement the program.  Tolls on the road (paid off since 1987) will continue for the rest of everyone's lives.  What money the turnpike generates, after all the graft and corruption, will go to the DOH for work in the 10 counties of southern WV.  The commission is also authorized to toll WV 43 (which was supposed to be a toll road when it was built), and ANY ROAD that is built from now on (including the gaps in US 35 and Corridor H) or which has new lanes added (including I-64 from MP 45 westward).   Turnpike did not submit how much more it will take in.

- The "bond issue", technically a Constitutional amendment, to allow the state to "borrow" $1.6 BILLION against the increased taxes over 4 years, with the intention of never really paying it back.  Election set for October 7, a Saturday.  Saturday elections have historically low turnouts, which is the plan.

IMHO, I shall vote no.  While the taxes and the tolls are in place anyway, the turnpike administration is simply so corrupt and wasteful that giving it unlimited power to set tolls and retain its unlimited power to "invest" in boondoggle non-transportation projects and to pay its "expenses" in running the toll road(s), which includes so much graft, is unacceptable.  Also, unlike previous road bonds, it does not actually list any projects, so they can spend it on whatever they want.  This gov has already commited to at least one shady project (the so-called "Boone County Corridor"). 


hbelkins

#33
Quote from: SP Cook on June 28, 2017, 09:46:01 AM...or which has new lanes added (including I-64 from MP 45 westward).

So does this means the added lanes have to be HOT lanes, or will the entire portion of the interstate be tolled?

I'm not a hardcore shunpiker by any means, but if this means all lanes of I-64 between Charleston and Huntington are tolled, I can see me becoming a heavy user of US 119 or OH 7/WV 2 and US 50.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

SP Cook

Quote from: hbelkins on June 28, 2017, 01:32:04 PM

So does this means the added lanes have to be HOT lanes, or will the entire portion of the interstate be tolled?


The bill doesn't say.  So they could go either way, either a third "HOT" lane or they could toll the entire road, including the existing lanes.   It just says any road not open on July 1, 2017, including the addition of extra lanes or the replacement of a bridge, can be tolled, apparently at its discression.   Read litterally, that would mean, of projects likely to be built in the reasonable future, 64 from the current end of the 6 lane at MP 45 to MP 6, plus most of I-81 and I-79 north of MP 121 could be tolled, in additon to whatever new gets built, such as H and 35, all of which are heavy out-of-state use roads.

IF (they won't) approve the "single fee" program then that is $25/year and they did it would be a heck of a deal for about any state resident, even just the existing turnpike.  And that is the interesting deal.  The bill moved the administration of such passes (the current deal is $300/year for unlimited or $5/year and $1.20/toll (rather than $2) ) from the turnpike (who will sell to anybody) to the DMV via license plate renewals (still using EZ Pass technology), which means only state residents (and specifically only cars, standard pickups and motorcycles owned by non-corporations).  That might be a federal Constitutional issue there. 

plain

Quote from: hbelkins on June 28, 2017, 01:32:04 PM
Quote from: SP Cook on June 28, 2017, 09:46:01 AM...or which has new lanes added (including I-64 from MP 45 westward).

So does this means the added lanes have to be HOT lanes, or will the entire portion of the interstate be tolled?

I'm not a hardcore shunpiker by any means, but if this means all lanes of I-64 between Charleston and Huntington are tolled, I can see me becoming a heavy user of US 119 or OH 7/WV 2 and US 50.

When I think about previous (and dead-end) talks by NC, PA, and VA to toll historically free interstates, it makes me doubt that this section of I-64 will ever be tolled.
Newark born, Richmond bred

Bitmapped

SB 1003, which pertains to the Parkways Authority, is available in its final form at http://www.legis.state.wv.us/Bill_Status/bills_text.cfm?billdoc=sb1003%20enr.htm&yr=2017&sesstype=1X&i=1003.

Quote from: SP Cook on June 28, 2017, 09:46:01 AM
- The Turnpike bill, which unfortunatly does not reform or abolish the corrupt turnpike administration, nor do anything about the Scamarack black hole.  Commission is now authorized to set tolls without Legislative approval, and will apparently raise tolls to $9 for a full trip as soon as it can.  The commission is told to "study" the gov's ultra-low free pass idea, and, if it wants, set the price at $25/year.  IMHO, it will never implement the program.  Tolls on the road (paid off since 1987) will continue for the rest of everyone's lives.  What money the turnpike generates, after all the graft and corruption, will go to the DOH for work in the 10 counties of southern WV.  The commission is also authorized to toll WV 43 (which was supposed to be a toll road when it was built), and ANY ROAD that is built from now on (including the gaps in US 35 and Corridor H) or which has new lanes added (including I-64 from MP 45 westward).   Turnpike did not submit how much more it will take in.

Tolling of existing roads is only permitted with legislative authorization per West Virginia Code §17-16A-6 and §17-16A-13. SB 1003 does not include authorization for tolling WV 43.

§17-16A-13a only allows the Parkways Authority to raise tolls if it has established the single fee ($25) program.

Quote from: SP Cook on June 28, 2017, 09:46:01 AM
- The "bond issue", technically a Constitutional amendment, to allow the state to "borrow" $1.6 BILLION against the increased taxes over 4 years, with the intention of never really paying it back.  Election set for October 7, a Saturday.  Saturday elections have historically low turnouts, which is the plan.

IMHO, I shall vote no.  While the taxes and the tolls are in place anyway, the turnpike administration is simply so corrupt and wasteful that giving it unlimited power to set tolls and retain its unlimited power to "invest" in boondoggle non-transportation projects and to pay its "expenses" in running the toll road(s), which includes so much graft, is unacceptable.  Also, unlike previous road bonds, it does not actually list any projects, so they can spend it on whatever they want.  This gov has already commited to at least one shady project (the so-called "Boone County Corridor").

There are two separate bond issues proposed, one by WVDOH and one by the Parkways Authority. The constitutional amendment is to permit general obligation bonds to be issued by WVDOH. The Parkways Authority can already issue its revenue bonds with or without the constitutional amendment

Bitmapped

Quote from: SP Cook on June 28, 2017, 02:29:46 PM

IF (they won't) approve the "single fee" program then that is $25/year and they did it would be a heck of a deal for about any state resident, even just the existing turnpike.  And that is the interesting deal.  The bill moved the administration of such passes (the current deal is $300/year for unlimited or $5/year and $1.20/toll (rather than $2) ) from the turnpike (who will sell to anybody) to the DMV via license plate renewals (still using EZ Pass technology), which means only state residents (and specifically only cars, standard pickups and motorcycles owned by non-corporations).  That might be a federal Constitutional issue there. 

SB 1003 (see §17-16A-6(a)(6)) indicates the Parkways Authority may include proposals to allow vehicles registered in other states to participate in the single fee program. Since the single fee program will be done implemented E-ZPass as referenced in SB 1003, it wouldn't be hard to have DMV or the Parkways Authority sell E-ZPass transponders to participants.

SP Cook

Tolling WV 43 is covered by existing law, WVC 17017A-5b.   They never did do it because (they say) the cost of administration was greater than the cost.  Morgantown's delegation was pushing to revolke that power in this act (because that is what Morgantown is all about, everybody else pays, it benefits) but lost.  So, yes, technically the bill does not mention WV 43.   It did not need to.

In any event, this election, much like Gaston Capperton's 1989 Constitutional "reform" election will not be about the actual proposals, but rather a referendum on the Gov's first year in office.  That, IMHO, means he will lose big time, as Capperton did.  The sad part is the turnpike mess is already, as you point out, already a done deal, as are the tax increases designed to pay for the borrowing for the non-turnpike roads.  Justice is fast becoming a laughable figure.


Bitmapped

Quote from: SP Cook on June 29, 2017, 10:03:12 AM
Tolling WV 43 is covered by existing law, WVC 17017A-5b.   They never did do it because (they say) the cost of administration was greater than the cost.  Morgantown's delegation was pushing to revolke that power in this act (because that is what Morgantown is all about, everybody else pays, it benefits) but lost.  So, yes, technically the bill does not mention WV 43.   It did not need to.

Prior to the WV 43's opening, WV tried to strike a deal with the Pennsylvania Turnpike Commission to get them to collect tolls and remit part back to WV. PTC wasn't interested. I recall some of the comments at the time being that tolling wasn't feasible since WV didn't allow all-electronic tolling then.

I'm looking at WVC 17-17A-5b and while it seems like it was custom written for WV 43, I don't believe WV 43 actually meet the requirements to be eligible for tolling. One of the listed requirements is that "the adjacent state charges tolls on its portion of the highway immediately adjacent to West Virginia." PA doesn't charge tolls on its section of the Mon-Fayette that is immediately adjacent to WV. Tolling doesn't start until north of the Gans Road interchange, which would seem to render WV 43 ineligible to be tolled under this section of code.

Bitmapped


Mr_Northside

Quote from: Bitmapped on June 29, 2017, 10:42:00 PM
PA doesn't charge tolls on its section of the Mon-Fayette that is immediately adjacent to WV. Tolling doesn't start until north of the Gans Road interchange, which would seem to render WV 43 ineligible to be tolled under this section of code.

This is a bit of a technicality though. While it's true that the NB off / SB on - ramps don't have toll booths, so drivers can escape the toll, the stretch to WV is still covered by the mainline tolls. 
At the very least it's a gray area.
I don't have opinions anymore. All I know is that no one is better than anyone else, and everyone is the best at everything

froggie

I'm a few days late here, but in regards to HB's question and SP's response, WV would not legally be able to toll all of I-64 on the section in question west of Charleston.  Additional lanes, yes, as HO/T lanes are covered under current Federal law, but tolling all of a widened I-64 is currently out of the question.

seicer

http://www.herald-dispatch.com/news/governor-kicks-off-roads-program-in-hurricane/article_b0f682f6-f2b3-5001-a171-8e093ac3ceb3.html
"State Transportation Secretary Tom Smith said it will take a while for funding from the bills passed by the Legislature to trickle in. But he said highways officials have been getting ready for months in anticipation of the legislation and bond election and have leveraged $350 million worth of highways projects to start almost immediately.

One of the first will be rebuilding a six-mile stretch of Interstate 64 between Milton and Hurricane. Smith said the $15 million project will employ about 300 people.

He said highways officials hope to let the contract for the project on Aug. 24."

--

This portion of I-64 was originally completed in 1962.

Bitmapped

To the best of my knowledge, aside from the West Virginia Turnpike, WVDOH hasn't done a ground-up reconstruction on any of the Interstates. I'm aware of at least one other full depth reconstruction project in the works aside from I-64. DOH just seems to be doing the roadbed in these projects, not the bridges.

Avalanchez71

Quote from: SP Cook on February 13, 2017, 02:43:30 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on February 13, 2017, 01:34:45 PM

Kentucky eliminated an election cycle back in 1989, when local elected officials were given a one-time-only five-year term. Prior to that, Kentucky had an election every year...

This also saved state and local governments a quarter of their quadrennial election costs.


That was the brainchild of the Blazer family that owned what was then Ashland Oil.   Ashland was always advocating for inproved education in KY and WV.  Some would say because they were really trying to help their home area, other would say because the company found attracting talent to live in the region difficult because prospective employees did not want to send their children to the region's schools.  Probably a bit of both.

One year they canceled the entire company's ad budget and spent the $$ on ads in favor of better schools.  The company also was the origninator of doing away with KY's every year election cycle, with the idea being that the money saved would be spent on schools.  Whether it actually was is, as always, debatable. 

As you know, eventually Ashland got out of the oil business and moved its HQ to suburban Cincinnati. 

As to KY elections (my daughter lives in Lexington) my favorite politican just passed on.  The Fayette County Judge Executive.  His sole campain promise was to work to abolish the office.  The "urban county" governement merger of Fayette County with Lexington in 1974 eliminated 99% of the office's duties, but the state Constitution still requires one be elected.

I have always thought that the best thing to do with the Fayette County Judge/Executive is to just designate the office as the Mayor.  That way you don't have to worry about what to do with the office.  Just statutorily designate that office as the ex-offico Mayor.  I think the only thing that the County Judge does now is call the Fiscal Court into session to decide how to spend the "county road" funds from the state and sign those checks over to the Urban Council.

bubbamcgee

#46
The WV DOH just released the complete 16 page report of roads, bridges, and highway work that could/would be completed if the Roads to Prosperity amendment is passed this fall.  The report can be found here: http://www.transportation.wv.gov/highways/programplanning/Documents/Roads%20to%20Prosperity%20Project%20List.pdf

Just noticed an odd project on this list.  Relocation of US 33 to a new two lane road on Scott Miller Hill from CR 3 to CR 5/12.  Total projected cost: $42,000,000.  Been across that section of road several times and I really question the need.  Does anyone know anything about this project or have an idea of why the state feels that there is a need???

seicer

- It looks like I-79 from Servia to Flatwoods will be reconstructed.
- I-64 will be widened to eight lanes between East Mall Road/Huntington Mall (Exit 20) and Barboursville/WV 193 (Exit 18).
- I-64 will be widened to six lanes between 29th Street East/US 60 (Exit 15) to Barboursville/WV 193 (Exit 18).
- A new interchange for I-64 at Culloden with related improvements to US 60. (MM 30-32?)
- I-64 reconstruction from Milton (Exit 28) to US 35 (Exit 40).
- I-64 reconstruction near White Sulphur Springs.
- I-79 and US 50 interchange near Clarksburg to be rebuilt with a split diamond interchange.
- I-77 reconstruction from Kenna to Medina.
- US 340 four-lane construction from Charles Town to the Virginia state line.
- I-79 reconstruction from some access road to MM 14.
- WV 622 from I-64 north to WV 62 to be widened to five lanes.
- Jefferson Road/WV 601 to be widened to four lanes from US 119/Corridor G to US 60. RHL Blvd. to be built as part of the project.
- New US 119/Corridor H interchange at Lucado Road with frontage road, flyovers, etc. as part of improvements from MacCorkle Ave. to Jefferson Road/WV 601. (Coord: N 38.34158 W 81.66748) I am going to assume that the Lawndale Lane and Oakwood Road intersections will be closed.
- I-77 reconstruction from Edens Fork to Tuppers Creek.
- WV 2 widening to four lanes from Proctor to Franklin. It passes by numerous industrial facilities.
- King Coal Highway (US 52) to be built from WV 123/Airport Road to John Nash Blvd., a distance of 3.8 miles.
- King Coal Highway (US 52) to be built from Horsepen Mountain to Gilbert Creek, including a connector to Gilbert.
- Widen US 522 in Morgan County to four lanes with a bypass of Berkeley Springs.
- Widen I-64 from US 35 to Nitro with a second Kanawha River crossing.
- Widen I-64 at Beckley.
- Construct the New River Parkway from I-64 near Sandstone to Fall Branch.
- Construct Tolsia Highway (US 52) from Prichard to US 52 south of Kenova on new alignment and alongside existing US 52.
- Construct WV 14 to four-lanes between Parkersburg south to the newer four-lane segment at Pettyville.
- Construct Coalfields Expressway (US 121) from WV 16 to Welch and pave existing graded segments.

bubbamcgee

Definitely some much needed projects on the list; especially the widening of I-64 in Cabell, Putnam, and Kanawha counties, I-79 widening, US 119 improvements, and the Coalfields Expressway. 

plain

When they say I-64 at Beckley I'm thinking they mean the free section. What's the traffic counts here? I wouldn't think there would be a need for more than 4 lanes
Newark born, Richmond bred



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