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Hawaii Missile Alert Fiasco

Started by bing101, January 13, 2018, 11:44:08 PM

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bing101



ZLoth

I'm an Engineer. That means I solve problems. Not problems like "What is beauty?", because that would fall within the purview of your conundrums of philosophy. I solve practical problems and call them "paychecks".

Hurricane Rex

I was worried when I first heard it but when I heard the false alarm and the reason why, I was laughing histerically.
ODOT, raise the speed limit and fix our traffic problems.

Road and weather geek for life.

Running till I die.

jakeroot

I have several friends who live in Hawaii (on the big island). They were all running to be with loved ones, since most people don't have shelter. As far as they knew, their world was ending.

Stephane Dumas

Quote from: Hurricane Rex on January 14, 2018, 01:49:02 AM
I was worried when I first heard it but when I heard the false alarm and the reason why, I was laughing histerically.

If these false alarms occur more often, the trouble is when it'll be real, people will think then it's just another false alarm and it ends like the tale of the boy who cried wolf.

english si

Quote from: Stephane Dumas on January 14, 2018, 07:58:22 AMIf these false alarms occur more often, the trouble is when it'll be real, people will think then it's just another false alarm and it ends like the tale of the boy who cried wolf.
Given we're talking nukes, it's not really a wolf one can protect yourself from. Hiding under desks at school, Protect and Survive, etc wouldn't actually work. Being blissfully unaware is probably a good thing - you don't really want a panic created.

When, aged around 9, my classmates and I became aware of the notion of nuclear war and how, when we were little it was a very very real threat, we all decided that the best thing to do was to try and get closer to Central London (or, when we were a little older, RAF Northolt, as it was where Strike Command was then said to be based* and it was closer) as being vaporised would be better than dying more slowly of radiation poisoning. It was so blatantly obvious, even to us children, that the whole point of talking about warnings and what to do were to give reassurance then, not because it would work. It was like when someone says "go on, it won't hurt" to get you to do something that will hurt you.

*Little did we know that it was actually the closer RAF High Wycombe - the cunning plan that foxed the Germans in WW2 (to have a major RAF base (Bomber Command) hidden in some woods in a hilly area - they never found it) continued to work as we didn't even know about it. It was also NATO's 'Headquarters Allied Forces North Western Europe' as well as the place where all the strategic air stuff was based. It had the bunker that could transmit the emergency '4 minute warning'. And yes, 4 minutes was all we would have had, so plans to run towards the blast would have been silly too. Perhaps the Soviets also didn't know about it either.

oscar

#6
Quote from: english si on January 14, 2018, 08:58:25 AM
Given we're talking nukes, it's not really a wolf one can protect yourself from. Hiding under desks at school, Protect and Survive, etc wouldn't actually work. Being blissfully unaware is probably a good thing - you don't really want a panic created.

The "protect and survive" stuff may have run its course in the U.S. by the time I was old enough to be aware of it. Or maybe I didn't see any of it because I lived most of my childhood on or near major military bases (my father was a Marine), each of which was almost certainly high on any nuclear strike target lists.

My first exposure to "duck and cover" in the U.S. w/r/t nuclear attacks (it's still relevant for earthquakes) was the mock Civil Defense posters I saw in college, ending with something like "Put your head firmly between your thighs | Then kiss your ass goodbye".

Quote from: jakeroot on January 14, 2018, 04:04:13 AM
I have several friends who live in Hawaii (on the big island). They were all running to be with loved ones, since most people don't have shelter. As far as they knew, their world was ending.

Of course, the Big Island is short on military facilities that might be nuclear strike targets, and is far from the most obvious target (Pearl Harbor, several islands and more than 150 miles away). But the Big Island has repeaters for Honolulu TV stations, so it would be hard to focus a legitimate alert on just one part of the state.
my Hot Springs and Highways pages, with links to my roads sites:
http://www.alaskaroads.com/home.html

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: Stephane Dumas on January 14, 2018, 07:58:22 AM
Quote from: Hurricane Rex on January 14, 2018, 01:49:02 AM
I was worried when I first heard it but when I heard the false alarm and the reason why, I was laughing histerically.

If these false alarms occur more often, the trouble is when it'll be real, people will think then it's just another false alarm and it ends like the tale of the boy who cried wolf.

If a nuclear missile is heading your way likely it isn't going to matter if you have warning or not.  On an island there is definitely no way you would be able get away from the blast radius.  On land even if you got out of the blast area you'd still would probably get doused with fallout.  Missiles with multiple warheads probably would just wipe out a major city leaving no chance of escape. 

US71

Quote from: jakeroot on January 14, 2018, 04:04:13 AM
I have several friends who live in Hawaii (on the big island). They were all running to be with loved ones, since most people don't have shelter. As far as they knew, their world was ending.

I heard the Prez said this was a test.
Like Alice I Try To Believe Three Impossible Things Before Breakfast

michravera

Quote from: oscar on January 14, 2018, 09:28:59 AM
Quote from: english si on January 14, 2018, 08:58:25 AM
Given we're talking nukes, it's not really a wolf one can protect yourself from. Hiding under desks at school, Protect and Survive, etc wouldn't actually work. Being blissfully unaware is probably a good thing - you don't really want a panic created.

The "protect and survive" stuff may have run its course in the U.S. by the time I was old enough to be aware of it. Or maybe I didn't see any of it because I lived most of my childhood on or near major military bases (my father was a Marine), each of which was almost certainly high on any nuclear strike target lists.

My first exposure to "duck and cover" in the U.S. w/r/t nuclear attacks (it's still relevant for earthquakes) was the mock Civil Defense posters I saw in college, ending with something like "Put your head firmly between your thighs | Then kiss your ass goodbye".

Quote from: jakeroot on January 14, 2018, 04:04:13 AM
I have several friends who live in Hawaii (on the big island). They were all running to be with loved ones, since most people don't have shelter. As far as they knew, their world was ending.

Of course, the Big Island is short on military facilities that might be nuclear strike targets, and is far from the most obvious target (Pearl Harbor, several islands and more than 150 miles away). But the Big Island has repeaters for Honolulu TV stations, so it would be hard to focus a legitimate alert on just one part of the state.

If a missile had come from the Chinese or the Russians, The Big Island would not be in much danger for exactly the reasons that you state. We are pretty sure that the Russians and the Chinese will hit that at which they are aiming, if we don't figure out how to shoot it down first. If North Korea had launched it, the fear has to be "closest to launch site is in most danger". In that case, The Big Island is in trouble.

Shoppingforfood

Look at a map, the Big Island is not near NK.
Going shopping...Gonna go shopping...

oscar

Quote from: michravera on January 14, 2018, 11:40:29 AM
If a missile had come from the Chinese or the Russians, The Big Island would not be in much danger for exactly the reasons that you state. We are pretty sure that the Russians and the Chinese will hit that at which they are aiming, if we don't figure out how to shoot it down first. If North Korea had launched it, the fear has to be "closest to launch site is in most danger". In that case, The Big Island is in trouble.

The Big Island is the part of Hawaii most distant from North Korea. Kauai and private island Niihau are much closer. Low-population Molokai and Lanai would also be closer to Oahu, making them most vulnerable to an off-target strike aimed at the Honolulu area.
my Hot Springs and Highways pages, with links to my roads sites:
http://www.alaskaroads.com/home.html

nexus73

"Air raid Pearl Harbor, this is not a drill". 

Before the Japanese hit with their aircraft, miniature subs tried to gain entrance into Pearl Harbor.  One was sunk by the destroyer USS Ward and a message sent to base about the encounter.  No one was put on alert.

Then the portable radar station at Opana reported a massive incoming group of planes just as they were scheduled to shut down.  "They're just B-17's coming from Midway" was the message back to the radar crew with orders to end their observing.

Less than an hour later the Japanese struck.

For some reason Hawai'i and warnings just don't work together well.

Rick
US 101 is THE backbone of the Pacific coast from Bandon OR to Willits CA.  Industry, tourism and local traffic would be gone or severely crippled without it being in functioning condition in BOTH states.

Bruce

What's more worrying is that the cancellation notice came over 30 minutes later. No safeguard from the state system to cancel a false message.

And speaking of alert systems, the natural disaster systems in Hawaii and the West Coast are woefully under-built. Tsunami and earthquake sirens should be a top priority, and yet they've been unfunded by Congress for decades.

oscar

Quote from: Bruce on January 14, 2018, 08:06:32 PM
What's more worrying is that the cancellation notice came over 30 minutes later. No safeguard from the state system to cancel a false message.

And speaking of alert systems, the natural disaster systems in Hawaii and the West Coast are woefully under-built. Tsunami and earthquake sirens should be a top priority, and yet they've been unfunded by Congress for decades.

But what about local funding of Hawaii's own systems? Not just by the state, but also the rather disaster-prone Hawaii County (earthquakes, tsunamis, volcanic eruptions)?

I don't know the story there, but let's not assume it's all on Federal funding.
my Hot Springs and Highways pages, with links to my roads sites:
http://www.alaskaroads.com/home.html

jakeroot

#15
I don't know how the funding is split right now, but Congress really should be funding most/all defense and warning systems. Hawaii was chosen to be a state due to its strategic location in the Pacific. It should be the federal government's job to protect the land, as most of the military threats to the island are the result of mainland politics.

Geographic threats are a different story, although I'd still prefer to see >90% federal funding for those systems. If the US wants x-area of land to be a part of the US, it has a duty to protect that land (or at least the citizens who occupy said land).

bing101

https://nypost.com/2018/01/14/worker-who-sent-out-hawaii-missile-alert-re-assigned/

Apparently the accused person who allegedly push the alert system has been reassigned until FCC and Hawaii state investigations are handled.

ColossalBlocks

Quote from: Stephane Dumas on January 14, 2018, 07:58:22 AM
Quote from: Hurricane Rex on January 14, 2018, 01:49:02 AM
I was worried when I first heard it but when I heard the false alarm and the reason why, I was laughing histerically.

If these false alarms occur more often, the trouble is when it'll be real, people will think then it's just another false alarm and it ends like the tale of the boy who cried wolf.

The same situation somewhat happened in Joplin, Missouri in 2011.
I am inactive for a while now my dudes. Good associating with y'all.

US Highways: 36, 49, 61, 412.

Interstates: 22, 24, 44, 55, 57, 59, 72, 74 (West).

Scott5114

Quote from: Bruce on January 14, 2018, 08:06:32 PM
What's more worrying is that the cancellation notice came over 30 minutes later. No safeguard from the state system to cancel a false message.

Apparently the first indication from a government official that the message was a false alarm was a Tweet from Rep. Tulsi Gabbard (D-HI) stating such.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

bing101

Quote from: Shoppingforfood on January 14, 2018, 11:41:48 AM
Look at a map, the Big Island is not near NK.

True but given the North Korea missile threats in the past Hawaii, American Samoa, Guam, Alaska, Washington State, Oregon and California have been emphasized as targets for a North Korean nuclear strike in the past. Also I heard stuff that the University of Hawaii was in the process of updating their evacuation routes when the missile alert was activated.

triplemultiplex





Hawaii is going to have a baby boom in September.
"That's just like... your opinion, man."

Buck87

Quote from: triplemultiplex on January 15, 2018, 10:32:44 AM
Hawaii is going to have a baby boom in September.

Wouldn't it be in October?

triplemultiplex

Quote from: Buck87 on January 15, 2018, 01:19:06 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on January 15, 2018, 10:32:44 AM
Hawaii is going to have a baby boom in September.

Wouldn't it be in October?

Naw, Hawaiian babies only take 8.5 months to incubate.
:sombrero:
"That's just like... your opinion, man."

bing101


ZLoth

Sigh....

From CNN:

Japanese broadcaster apologizes after false North Korea missile alert
QuoteJapanese national broadcaster NHK issued an on-air apology Tuesday after issuing an alert incorrectly claiming that North Korea had launched a ballistic missile.

The message, received by phone users with the NHK app installed on their devices, read: "NHK news alert. North Korea likely to have launched missile. The government J alert: evacuate inside the building or underground. "
FULL ARTICLE HERE
I'm an Engineer. That means I solve problems. Not problems like "What is beauty?", because that would fall within the purview of your conundrums of philosophy. I solve practical problems and call them "paychecks".



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