Let’s Rebuild America

[Plutonic Panda]

Trying to keep this as non-political as possible which is almost impossible, but from a nonpartisan perspective, what are your thoughts on this?

Gas tax will be raised by 25 cents. Permitting process to take 2 maximin. More programs to help with the labor shortage. More emphasis placed on PPP's with federal programs to encourage it.

Here is the website: http://www.letsrebuildamerica.com

I support it and hope it happens. I am a bit worried out here in California though. While I am willing to pay a bit more to have better roads, the gas tax is getting a bit ridiculous out here. I want to see SB-1 stay in law and not get repealed, but it will be tough defending it if this passes. Gas taxes in California will go up another 25 cents on top of SB-1. It is a bit much.

[Plutonic Panda]

To add a bit more here, here is a list of all the 50 state's rankings for infrastructure: https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings/infrastructure?src=usn_tw

It leaves out waterways and water lines.

[hotdogPi]

To add a bit more here, here is a list of all 59 states rankings for infrastructure: https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings/infrastructure?src=usn_tw

It leaves out waterways and water lines.

What are the other 9 states to make 59?

Also, about the article, how does #7, 2, and 20 beat #20, 4, and 2?
EDIT: #30, 8, and 28 beats #15, 26, and 8.

[Plutonic Panda]

LOL! I'll fix that.

I'm a bit skeptical of that article as well. Texas below Oklahoma!? Lol, okay.

[jeffandnicole]

If you click on each state, you get the reasoning behind their analysis a 3rd grader's 500 word essay about the state's history, population data and tourism spots.

[SP Cook]

1 - Tax money is fungible.  Anytime the tax raisers want to raise taxes they pick out some thing that most people would support, such as roads, schools, bridges, etc.  and then TELL you that this money is "just for that".  Wrong.  Government already has plenty of money to do all the things government is supposed to do.  It just wastes it on other things.

2 - The USA has no "labor shortage".  The latest statistics show that about 42% of able bodied adults simply refuse to work, having made the lifestyle choice of lifewelfarism. 

Since the idea is based on two false ideas, it cannot be supported by thinking people.

[hotdogPi]

2 - The USA has no "labor shortage".  The latest statistics show that about 42% of able bodied adults simply refuse to work, having made the lifestyle choice of lifewelfarism. 

Do you mean that labor force participation is 58%? I'm getting a slightly higher number, 63%. If that is what you're referring to, remember that students in college are included in the 42% you're referring to.

[vdeane]

I agree with some of this, but not with the support for PPPs.  We need only look to I-69 in Indiana, the TX 130 bankruptcy, and the Indiana Toll Road bankruptcy to see what a disaster those are.  And we do not need to make roads even more expensive by tolling things, either.

1 - Tax money is fungible.  Anytime the tax raisers want to raise taxes they pick out some thing that most people would support, such as roads, schools, bridges, etc.  and then TELL you that this money is "just for that".  Wrong.  Government already has plenty of money to do all the things government is supposed to do.  It just wastes it on other things.

2 - The USA has no "labor shortage".  The latest statistics show that about 42% of able bodied adults simply refuse to work, having made the lifestyle choice of lifewelfarism. 

Since the idea is based on two false ideas, it cannot be supported by thinking people.

1. The Highway Trust Fund is supposed to be funded by the gas tax, which has not been raised since 1993.  There has been plenty of inflation since then, and construction costs have risen faster than that.  Additionally, cars are more fuel efficient now than they were back then.  While the fund has received infusions from the general fund in recent years to prevent collapse, this is hardly a permanent solution, and hampers state planning efforts as there is never any certainty as to what funding will be available.  States can't even be sure if they'll get the money they've been promised due to the difference between authorization and appropriation.

2. I won't disagree with there not being a labor shortage, but for completely different reasons.  Companies are willfully ignoring a large segment of the workforce for a variety of reasons, chiefly the elimination of entry level jobs and refusal to hire those who are unemployed, shutting many people out of the workforce.

[hotdogPi]

What if gas prices increased by $1, to the mid-$3.xx range? This is still cheaper than in Europe, and the same as it was in the United States a few years ago. In addition, it would encourage more fuel-efficient cars.

[jeffandnicole]

What if gas prices increased by $1, to the mid-$3.xx range? This is still cheaper than in Europe, and the same as it was in the United States a few years ago. In addition, it would encourage more fuel-efficient cars.

Gas was over $3 on average from 2011 - 2014. It did encourage people to get rid of the gas guzzlers at the time. With 'cheaper' gas in the $2 range, people started buying SUVs again.  Will the same thing happen next time around?  Maybe, but probably not as much as before.

As far as Europe goes, most Americans don't care, because that has no effect on us.  Canada is more expensive as well.

[Hurricane Rex]

Despite myself identifying as a tea party conservative, I support the increase and the redistribution of funding. Our roads could use the spending.

Also: How the freak did Oregon grab the #1 spot? Our freeways SUCK!

[slorydn1]

I'm torn.

I say that because I do want our infrastructure to be improved. I also say that because I am no longer sure that fuel taxes are the way to go in order to get the funding.

I, for one, do not believe we should be using taxes as a form of behavior modification. Whether that be fuel taxes, cigarette taxes, drink taxes, whatever, I don't believe that is right. We had one poster above who stated that higher gas prices would encourage more fuel efficient cars. He is correct in that assesment, and if that increase occurred naturally through market forces I couldn't complain about it. But if he means raise taxes to make that happen then I would be 100% opposed to anything like that.

Which brings me to my other issue with fuel taxes. People who drive hybrids pay very little fuel tax, and those who drive plug in electrics pay zero.

Now which car does more damage to the road. My 3700 lb Mustang GT or that Tesla roadster that weighs and performs similiarly? Neither. Yet I am paying $500 or more per year in fuel taxes while he pays $0. Tell me how that's fair again?

I would be for a substantial increase in  open road tolling, if gas taxes were done away with entirely. Everytime I have to pay a toll for something now I'm feeling squeezed because I'm already paying at the pump-espescially here in NC which has a higher state fuel tax than most of the country.

I wouldn't be against a vehicle mileage based tax either, but I do understand how many would not like that because they feel like they are being tracked by big brother that way, I get it. But at least that way we would all be paying our fair share for using the roads we drive on and not just those of us that drive gasoline/diesel powered cars.

[UCFKnights]

I'm torn.

I say that because I do want our infrastructure to be improved. I also say that because I am no longer sure that fuel taxes are the way to go in order to get the funding.

I, for one, do not believe we should be using taxes as a form of behavior modification. Whether that be fuel taxes, cigarette taxes, drink taxes, whatever, I don't believe that is right. We had one poster above who stated that higher gas prices would encourage more fuel efficient cars. He is correct in that assesment, and if that increase occurred naturally through market forces I couldn't complain about it. But if he means raise taxes to make that happen then I would be 100% opposed to anything like that.

Which brings me to my other issue with fuel taxes. People who drive hybrids pay very little fuel tax, and those who drive plug in electrics pay zero.

Now which car does more damage to the road. My 3700 lb Mustang GT or that Tesla roadster that weighs and performs similiarly? Neither. Yet I am paying $500 or more per year in fuel taxes while he pays $0. Tell me how that's fair again?

I would be for a substantial increase in  open road tolling, if gas taxes were done away with entirely. Everytime I have to pay a toll for something now I'm feeling squeezed because I'm already paying at the pump-espescially here in NC which has a higher state fuel tax than most of the country.

I wouldn't be against a vehicle mileage based tax either, but I do understand how many would not like that because they feel like they are being tracked by big brother that way, I get it. But at least that way we would all be paying our fair share for using the roads we drive on and not just those of us that drive gasoline/diesel powered cars.

Thats not quite so simple either. Light, compact vehicles surely do much less damage and wear and tear on roads compared to large vehicles, and gas consumption likely follows the impact to the road much better then any per mile fee. Older vehicles also likely do more damage to the road, and also consume more gas. I say get rid of the electric vehicle credit and put that money towards the roads, but lets not remove the usage based incentive to use electric vehicles.

[kalvado]

I'm torn.

I say that because I do want our infrastructure to be improved. I also say that because I am no longer sure that fuel taxes are the way to go in order to get the funding.

I, for one, do not believe we should be using taxes as a form of behavior modification. Whether that be fuel taxes, cigarette taxes, drink taxes, whatever, I don't believe that is right. We had one poster above who stated that higher gas prices would encourage more fuel efficient cars. He is correct in that assesment, and if that increase occurred naturally through market forces I couldn't complain about it. But if he means raise taxes to make that happen then I would be 100% opposed to anything like that.

Which brings me to my other issue with fuel taxes. People who drive hybrids pay very little fuel tax, and those who drive plug in electrics pay zero.

Now which car does more damage to the road. My 3700 lb Mustang GT or that Tesla roadster that weighs and performs similiarly? Neither. Yet I am paying $500 or more per year in fuel taxes while he pays $0. Tell me how that's fair again?

I would be for a substantial increase in  open road tolling, if gas taxes were done away with entirely. Everytime I have to pay a toll for something now I'm feeling squeezed because I'm already paying at the pump-espescially here in NC which has a higher state fuel tax than most of the country.

I wouldn't be against a vehicle mileage based tax either, but I do understand how many would not like that because they feel like they are being tracked by big brother that way, I get it. But at least that way we would all be paying our fair share for using the roads we drive on and not just those of us that drive gasoline/diesel powered cars.

Thats not quite so simple either. Light, compact vehicles surely do much less damage and wear and tear on roads compared to large vehicles, and gas consumption likely follows the impact to the road much better then any per mile fee. Older vehicles also likely do more damage to the road, and also consume more gas. I say get rid of the electric vehicle credit and put that money towards the roads, but lets not remove the usage based incentive to use electric vehicles.

Road damage is not the best criteria for taxation.
It is generally accepted that damage goes as forth power of axle loading - so Tesla, which is 2x heavier than Civic, does 16x more damage - and bus with 30 passengers is worse than 1000 civics. And one truck causes more wear than all car traffic - while bike is zero-wear. But there is no 100x difference is gas consumption, and gas is not a true proxy for wear.
But a good fraction of wear being age and weather related. And car needs almost about same lane width and pavement quality as a truck, and bike needs half that.
So flat per-mile tax on non-commercial vehicles*, maybe gross weight adjusted, may be a good metrics for received benefit.

*bicycle tax? Sorry, I am not prepared to answer.

[US71]

We have no money to fix our roads, but plenty of money for corporate handouts. Let Walmart fix the roads.

[RobbieL2415]

The federal gas tax should be raised and pegged to the inflation rate of the Dollar.  Allow tolls on non-grandfathered Interstates.  Continue to increase unit efficiency standards for auto manufacturers.  Work with public utility providers and the Energy Department to create and install a nationwide electric vehicle charging standard.  Equip one of the may transcontinental rail lines for high-speed passenger train travel.

This is the way I see it.

[theroadwayone]

In regards to the gas tax, there's the small but growing number of electric cars that don't pay it. How do they carry their share of the weight?

[vdeane]

I am very much against tolling the interstate system.  I pay enough tolls on the Thruway as it is.  One of the nice things about going to other states (other than MA) is that I don't need to pay a toll to get everywhere (well, everywhere except the Adirondacks or Binghamton).  Tolls add up.  Costs me $19 in tolls to visit family.  Add in gas and lunch or dinner (I generally grab one each way), and I'm looking at $100 per trip, and Rochester is only 220 miles away.  And the Thruway actually has the lowest per-mile toll rate in the area.  Any new tolls on interstates would no doubt be more expensive.

Tolls also have the nasty side effect of increasing traffic on side streets due to shunpikers.  Just look at how traffic on US 30 in PA has grown since Act 44.

Tolls and mileage fees are also much more "in your face" than the gas tax.  Nobody thinks about how much they're paying in taxes when they get gas (unless they're in a situation where they can easily hop across a state line to get a cheaper price).  Tolls or milage fees force people to specifically think about the tax they're paying and how much they use the roads.  And that, I suspect, is the REAL reason for the push for those funding sources.  By forcing people to specifically think about how much tax they're paying related to how much they're driving, it will discourage driving, and encourage other forms of transportation.  To anyone who wants to get people out of their cars, this is no doubt a feature of tolls/mileage fees that they consider very beneficial.  Mileage fees also seem to be much more optimized for self-driving Uber fleets than individually owned human-driven cars.

Incidentally, this is why I would prefer we move to hydrogen fuel cell cars rather than electric.  Hydrogen can be taxed at the termal level, just like gas.  Electricity could only be taxed at the individual and retail levels, which is much more complicated, and probably why nobody is trying.  Hydrogen cars can also be used just like gas, unlike electric cars, which due to shorter range and longer recharging times (issues that are improving but will never entirely go away; I doubt we'll ever see an electric car that can go 400-500 miles and then fully charge in a couple minutes like my Civic can).  Although even with hydrogen, there's still that push from the powers that be away from ownership.  Honda doesn't even allow to buy a Clarity.  It's lease only, with no option to buy out the lease, even at the end.

[hotdogPi]

In regards to the gas tax, there's the small but growing number of electric cars that don't pay it. How do they carry their share of the weight?

It's not a problem that they don't pay the gas tax. We want to provide an incentive for more electric cars.

[Rothman]

In regards to the gas tax, there's the small but growing number of electric cars that don't pay it. How do they carry their share of the weight?

Get rid of tolls and the gas tax and institute an appropriate VMT tax. :>

[RobbieL2415]

In regards to the gas tax, there's the small but growing number of electric cars that don't pay it. How do they carry their share of the weight?

The revenue lost by not paying the gas taxes could be made up by increased sales tax revenue from electricity generation and higher administrative fees.  New taxes on vehicle motor batteries could also be created.  In fact I would think you'd want more revenue flowing towards electricity providers so that they can make improvements to the grid overall.

Another (albeit obscure) way to offset it would be to eliminate the gas tax and assess a "vehicle highway use" fee on everyone's car tax bill (assuming your state/municipality has one) that is pegged to the the mill rate.

[renegade]

I am OK with raising the gasoline tax by twenty-five cents.  Hell, go ahead and raise it by fifty cents.  The other part of this would be that Big Oil should NOT be allowed to screw with the price of gasoline anymore.  Permanently set gasoline at $2, $2.15 and $2.25 per gallon, plus tax for regular, mid-grade and premium, respectively, and end the .9 pricing gimmick forever, once and for all.  The price per gallon would not be permitted to fluctuate due to hurricanes or holidays, refinery outages or shortages, or any other reason for that matter.  All tax revenue collected should go directly toward rebuilding the infrastructure, prioritized by necessity without political influence. No pork projects would be allowed. 

Yeah, no one would be happy with that.  The system we have in place now is much better. [/sarc]

[ce929wax]

I am a millennial that no longer owns a vehicle, but does occasionally borrow a vehicle and occasionally puts gas in said vehicle, I can tell you that Michigan's gas prices are comparable to California due to Governor Snyder passing a hike on our gas taxes to 41 cents a gallon (I believe, I am not 100% sure).  For that hike, we consistently have the some of the worst roads compared to Indiana and Ohio.  I'm not sure more gas taxes are the answer, because I sure don't see them benefiting anyone in Michigan besides the fat cats.

I think our governments, federal and state, need to spend their money smarter.  I think there is plenty of money to go around, I just think our politicians make bad decisions with the money they have.  It is a virtual impossibility for the United States to actually go broke.  I do wish that a comprehensive infrastructure plan would be worked out.

[kkt]

In regards to the gas tax, there's the small but growing number of electric cars that don't pay it. How do they carry their share of the weight?

Get rid of tolls and the gas tax and institute an appropriate VMT tax. :>

I'm not okay with giving Big Brother a network of sensors tracking every vehicle, all the time.  You know such information would get used for nefarious purposes.

[Rothman]

In regards to the gas tax, there's the small but growing number of electric cars that don't pay it. How do they carry their share of the weight?

Get rid of tolls and the gas tax and institute an appropriate VMT tax. :>

I'm not okay with giving Big Brother a network of sensors tracking every vehicle, all the time.  You know such information would get used for nefarious purposes.

Such as?