Pennsylvania

[billpa]

The question is are the signs on I-81 changed to reflect this particularly at the systems interchange where US 322 and I-81 part at US 22?

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.3015545,-76.8719938,3a,75y,299.53h,85.41t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sEcpFwdKr0bbKUSKg1t9uSg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656


Note that the Harrisburg Int'l Airport has never been referenced here on the signs.  State College and Lewistown are both referenced in the above GSV link.

Though earlier signs for the 22/322 interchange only include Lewistown, as does I-83 NB approaching I-81.

There are pieces of what will be a new large over-the-road sign structure, on 83 northbound just before the Elmerton Street bridge, currently on the side of the highway... Who knows what those signs will say.

Pixel 2

[Gnutella]

Noticed today penndot changed control cities on Interstate 83 at the 283 split east of Harrisburg. Hazelton and Lancaster remain on their respective signs but State College has replaced Lewistown and Airport has been replaced by Harrisburg Intl Airport. Both new control cities are in Clearview.

Pixel 2

I hate when major airports are just called "Airport" on highway signs. That's how it is in Pittsburgh, though there is a "Pgh Int'l Airport" on I-80 at the I-376 interchange. Unfortunately, there's also a "Pgh Intrnt'l Airport" on I-79, which is ridiculous. Use "Pittsburgh Int'l Airport," please!

[Roadsguy]

At least if the new signs that have gone up in the PA 283 reconstruction near Highspire and Middletown are any indication, PennDOT is beginning to use the MUTCD airport symbol in signs as if it were a route shield:



Hopefully including more than just "Airport" becomes more normal as well.

[briantroutman]

I hate when major airports are just called "Airport" on highway signs.

Why do you hate it so much? I don't necessarily have a strong opinion either way, but this topic has come up before, and other posters have been quick to point out that very few cities have more than one major commercial airport, and usually they're far enough apart that "which airport?"  confusion is unlikely.

[Ben114]

At least if the new signs that have gone up in the PA 283 reconstruction near Highspire and Middletown are any indication, PennDOT is beginning to use the MUTCD airport symbol in signs as if it were a route shield:



Hopefully including more than just "Airport" becomes more normal as well.

Is it just me or are there two holes at the bottom corners of that right sign?

[ipeters61]

At least if the new signs that have gone up in the PA 283 reconstruction near Highspire and Middletown are any indication, PennDOT is beginning to use the MUTCD airport symbol in signs as if it were a route shield:



Hopefully including more than just "Airport" becomes more normal as well.

Is it just me or are there two holes at the bottom corners of that right sign?

I think I saw another photo of that sign with the holes filled with lights.

I hate when major airports are just called "Airport" on highway signs.

Why do you hate it so much? I don't necessarily have a strong opinion either way, but this topic has come up before, and other posters have been quick to point out that very few cities have more than one major commercial airport, and usually they're far enough apart that "which airport?"  confusion is unlikely.

I think Philadelphia compromised with "Intl Airport" on I-95 signage.

[Roadsguy]

At least if the new signs that have gone up in the PA 283 reconstruction near Highspire and Middletown are any indication, PennDOT is beginning to use the MUTCD airport symbol in signs as if it were a route shield:



Hopefully including more than just "Airport" becomes more normal as well.

Is it just me or are there two holes at the bottom corners of that right sign?

I think I saw another photo of that sign with the holes filled with lights.

I haven't seen recent photos, but it still looked like that the last time I was through there. Clearly it's designed for flashing lights like those at the York Split.

[MNHighwayMan]

I hate when major airports are just called "Airport" on highway signs.

Why do you hate it so much? I don't necessarily have a strong opinion either way, but this topic has come up before, and other posters have been quick to point out that very few cities have more than one major commercial airport, and usually they're far enough apart that "which airport?"  confusion is unlikely.

Ehh. I'm of the opinion that anything that reduces ambiguity is a positive, even if the possibility of confusion is minimal.

[ipeters61]

Does anybody know why this intersection (PA-309/US-202 Business/PA-463 in Montgomeryville) has stoplight assemblies like this?  I was just thinking about it now: https://www.google.com/maps/@40.2471773,-75.2438027,3a,75y,350.11h,75.03t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1syH8_8YZ9mRi7hU9BkmWR1g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

[Beltway]

Does anybody know why this intersection (PA-309/US-202 Business/PA-463 in Montgomeryville) has stoplight assemblies like this?  I was just thinking about it now: https://www.google.com/maps/@40.2471773,-75.2438027,3a,75y,350.11h,75.03t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1syH8_8YZ9mRi7hU9BkmWR1g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

One way to address very long span length, probably about 100 feet.

Long mast arms become massive --
https://www.google.com/maps/@37.5008935,-77.5291524,3a,30y,255.35h,92.28t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sMX-Dgt-raf_GlU7Sm9WicA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

[Rothman]

Still doesn't look stable enough to me.

[PHLBOS]

Does anybody know why this intersection (PA-309/US-202 Business/PA-463 in Montgomeryville) has stoplight assemblies like this?  I was just thinking about it now: https://www.google.com/maps/@40.2471773,-75.2438027,3a,75y,350.11h,75.03t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1syH8_8YZ9mRi7hU9BkmWR1g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

One way to address very long span length, probably about 100 feet.

Long mast arms become massive --
https://www.google.com/maps/@37.5008935,-77.5291524,3a,30y,255.35h,92.28t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sMX-Dgt-raf_GlU7Sm9WicA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Not to mention the fact that signal truss gantry looks to be from the 1980s and likely predated long mast-arm designs.

[jeffandnicole]

Still doesn't look stable enough to me.

I'm sure an engineer just didn't guess at it.

[Chris19001]

I grew up about 2 miles from 5 points intersection.  That intersection had those masts put up in the mid to late 80's when 202 and 463 had their approaches widened. They replaced simple stringed lights from what I remember.  DVRPC has a project on the books to revamp the intersection including replacing the gantry, but that can has been kicked for 20 years now..  I guess the advantage to building them the way they did is that they last for quite a while?

[Rothman]

Still doesn't look stable enough to me.

I'm sure an engineer just didn't guess at it.

You'd be surprised.

[billpa]

They sure didn't cover themselves in glory with the street name signs. Both the size and the placement leaves a bit to be desired.

Pixel 2

[ipeters61]

They sure didn't cover themselves in glory with the street name signs. Both the size and the placement leaves a bit to be desired.

You see, I thought there would be something like BGSes planned for the intersection with that stoplight assembly.

[Alps]

Still doesn't look stable enough to me.

I'm sure an engineer just didn't guess at it.

You see what the older 60+ footers are doing around NJ? They weren't guessing then either, but it wasn't enough for long-term horizontality. I don't trust a 90' mast arm no matter how designed it is.

[J N Winkler]

What looks like engineers "guessing" is often a result of applying design criteria that later research suggests are insufficiently conservative.

[jemacedo9]

Closing the gap east of State College PA is inching just a little closer...

https://www.penndot.gov/regionaloffices/district-2/pages/details.aspx?newsid=1225

Stakeholders and community members in south-central Centre County have long desired a four-lane connection that would increase safety and mobility in the often-congested area.

Governor Wolf announced that PennDOT is committing $5 million to begin preliminary engineering this year on this complex, significant project, and emphasized that community involvement will be a critical component of the project-development process. Given the extensive collaboration with local communities, businesses, and others through the design, utilities, and right-of-way phases, the department is also taking steps to align resources for a targeted 2027 construction start.

The commitment follows action from the administration in 2017 when the department started a refresh of environmental, traffic, and safety data regarding commercial development and community needs for a corridor involving Route 322, Route 45, and Route 144 in south central Centre County.

[Gnutella]

Closing the gap east of State College PA is inching just a little closer...

https://www.penndot.gov/regionaloffices/district-2/pages/details.aspx?newsid=1225

Stakeholders and community members in south-central Centre County have long desired a four-lane connection that would increase safety and mobility in the often-congested area.

Governor Wolf announced that PennDOT is committing $5 million to begin preliminary engineering this year on this complex, significant project, and emphasized that community involvement will be a critical component of the project-development process. Given the extensive collaboration with local communities, businesses, and others through the design, utilities, and right-of-way phases, the department is also taking steps to align resources for a targeted 2027 construction start.

The commitment follows action from the administration in 2017 when the department started a refresh of environmental, traffic, and safety data regarding commercial development and community needs for a corridor involving Route 322, Route 45, and Route 144 in south central Centre County.

Fill in the gap at Duncannon and maybe I-78 could be extended westward to State College?

[briantroutman]

Fill in the gap at Duncannon and maybe I-78 could be extended westward to State College?

I believe such an idea has been bandied about in roadgeek pipe dream circles for as long as I can remember. Further, if the deferred ADHS Corridor O-1 connection (Port Matilda to Clearfield) were to be built, an extended I-78 could run all the way to I-80. And the reconfiguration/bypass of the growing commercial strip near Duncannon would also be necessary for a theoretical I-83 northward extension to Williamsport and beyond (another perennial roadgeek fantasy idea).

But we're really into fictional territory with all of the above.

[Bitmapped]

Closing the gap east of State College PA is inching just a little closer...

https://www.penndot.gov/regionaloffices/district-2/pages/details.aspx?newsid=1225

Stakeholders and community members in south-central Centre County have long desired a four-lane connection that would increase safety and mobility in the often-congested area.

Governor Wolf announced that PennDOT is committing $5 million to begin preliminary engineering this year on this complex, significant project, and emphasized that community involvement will be a critical component of the project-development process. Given the extensive collaboration with local communities, businesses, and others through the design, utilities, and right-of-way phases, the department is also taking steps to align resources for a targeted 2027 construction start.

The commitment follows action from the administration in 2017 when the department started a refresh of environmental, traffic, and safety data regarding commercial development and community needs for a corridor involving Route 322, Route 45, and Route 144 in south central Centre County.

Fill in the gap at Duncannon and maybe I-78 could be extended westward to State College?

You still have an at-grade railroad crossing in Lewistown. Also, is the rest of the corridor up to Interstate standards? Parts east of Seven Mountains and around Harrisburg seem like they might not be.

[Roadsguy]

Honestly, I'd rather take 78 out to Pittsburgh from Lewistown, though that would require finishing Corridor M and upgrading US 22 all the way from Monroeville to Ebensburg, which would certainly require new alignment at least around Murrysville.

There are definitely more substandard freeway sections of 322 left. The segment around Laurel Creek Reservoir near Potters Mills is very narrow, tight, and steep, with a few of what appear to be service driveways and one proper T intersection with a public road. PennDOT doesn't indicate it as a freeway at all west of the newer section of freeway around Milroy. The entire section through Lewistown is also substandard, as is the railroad underpass just east of Dauphin.

Most of the freeway sections are at least mostly Interstate-standard, requiring minor improvements at best. Probably the worst thing on these sections is the rare "LILO" at Huggins Road north (i.e. west) of 11/15.

[Alps]

Honestly, I'd rather take 78 out to Pittsburgh from Lewistown, though that would require finishing Corridor M and upgrading US 22 all the way from Monroeville to Ebensburg, which would certainly require new alignment at least around Murrysville.

There are definitely more substandard freeway sections of 322 left. The segment around Laurel Creek Reservoir near Potters Mills is very narrow, tight, and steep, with a few of what appear to be service driveways and one proper T intersection with a public road. PennDOT doesn't indicate it as a freeway at all west of the newer section of freeway around Milroy. The entire section through Lewistown is also substandard, as is the railroad underpass just east of Dauphin.

Most of the freeway sections are at least mostly Interstate-standard, requiring minor improvements at best. Probably the worst thing on these sections is the rare "LILO" at Huggins Road north (i.e. west) of 11/15.

There's no reason to finish US 22 as a corridor. 322 to 99 works just fine.