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Author Topic: Locals don't want the US 1 overpasses near Crystal City torn down  (Read 9586 times)

kernals12

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Re: Locals don't want the US 1 overpasses near Crystal City torn down
« Reply #75 on: February 02, 2021, 09:47:40 AM »

Since there's been discussion here about Amazon, I see they've submitted plans to build this 350-foot thing at the corner of South 12th and Eads Streets. It's to be surrounded by three 22-story buildings with 2.8 million square feet of office space and—this will surely please kernals12 to no end—no parking garages.



I'm sure they'll find it very easy to attract workers to a place like that. It's not like Washington DC has other prestigious employers that provide their employees with parking... wait.
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Re: Locals don't want the US 1 overpasses near Crystal City torn down
« Reply #76 on: February 02, 2021, 06:22:37 PM »

Since there's been discussion here about Amazon, I see they've submitted plans to build this 350-foot thing at the corner of South 12th and Eads Streets. It's to be surrounded by three 22-story buildings with 2.8 million square feet of office space and—this will surely please kernals12 to no end—no parking garages.

(image snipped)

so Seattle gets Bezos's Balls; NOVA gets Bezos's... poopmoji?
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Re: Locals don't want the US 1 overpasses near Crystal City torn down
« Reply #77 on: February 02, 2021, 06:33:29 PM »

Since there's been discussion here about Amazon, I see they've submitted plans to build this 350-foot thing at the corner of South 12th and Eads Streets. It's to be surrounded by three 22-story buildings with 2.8 million square feet of office space and—this will surely please kernals12 to no end—no parking garages.



Wow! Now that an unusual and unique structure. Build it!
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1995hoo

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Re: Locals don't want the US 1 overpasses near Crystal City torn down
« Reply #78 on: February 03, 2021, 07:39:44 AM »

....

I'm sure they'll find it very easy to attract workers to a place like that. It's not like Washington DC has other prestigious employers that provide their employees with parking... wait.

You do realize that the overwhelming majority of employers in downtown DC don’t "provide" parking because the employees still have to pay for it, even if they get a pretax subsidy?
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kernals12

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Re: Locals don't want the US 1 overpasses near Crystal City torn down
« Reply #79 on: February 03, 2021, 08:18:54 AM »

....

I'm sure they'll find it very easy to attract workers to a place like that. It's not like Washington DC has other prestigious employers that provide their employees with parking... wait.

You do realize that the overwhelming majority of employers in downtown DC don’t "provide" parking because the employees still have to pay for it, even if they get a pretax subsidy?

You do realize that most DC area residents don't work downtown? Have you seen the massive parking lots around the Pentagon?
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Re: Locals don't want the US 1 overpasses near Crystal City torn down
« Reply #80 on: February 03, 2021, 09:15:57 AM »

....

I'm sure they'll find it very easy to attract workers to a place like that. It's not like Washington DC has other prestigious employers that provide their employees with parking... wait.

You do realize that the overwhelming majority of employers in downtown DC don’t "provide" parking because the employees still have to pay for it, even if they get a pretax subsidy?

There's also, you know, other ways to commute to work in DC (which some employers subsidize, to my understanding).

Specifically regarding the development 1995hoo mentioned, this is just 2 blocks away!

*ducks*
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seicer

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Re: Locals don't want the US 1 overpasses near Crystal City torn down
« Reply #81 on: February 03, 2021, 09:31:55 AM »

And not surprising, the amenities of Crystal City is one of the reasons as to why they are building there: https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2021/02/02/amazon-arlingon-headquarters-helix/

"Company officials said they want the corporate complex to blend with the neighborhood, offering features such as a community center, an amphitheater, a dog run, new bicycle lanes and 2.5 acres of green space that would be open to anyone." (The bike lanes I believe refer to the separated bike path Amazon will help build along Army and Navy Dr.)

"The expected influx into National Landing has already inflated housing prices in the area and sparked several new transportation projects, including expansion of Amtrak and Virginia Railway Express services."

And from https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/virginia-politics/national-landing-amazon-transportation/2020/12/22/94a4cdd4-4088-11eb-8bc0-ae155bee4aff_story.html:

"Eight major transportation projects are underway in the area, with the aim of turning what is often seen as a busy pass-through into a truly urban neighborhood where residents, office workers and visitors have easy access to local and regional amenities as well as long-distance travel."

"The projects will expand heavy rail services such as Amtrak and the Virginia Railway Express; add four new miles of protected bike lanes; turn a busy elevated highway into an urban boulevard that emphasizes safety and walkability; add additional Metro entrances; extend dedicated bus lanes; widen sidewalks and create new trailheads; and construct a pedestrian bridge over the George Washington Memorial Parkway between Crystal City and Reagan National Airport."

"“Access to good-quality, multimodal transit options was one of the key drivers in Amazon’s decision to locate in Arlington,” Brian Huseman, the retail behemoth’s vice president of public policy, said in a statement. “The additional investments in transportation infrastructure from the County and the Commonwealth will make this one of the most connected and innovative jurisdictions — benefitting the community at large.”"

Amazon chose Arlington / Crystal City -not- for the US Route 1 freeway or for Interstate 395, but for its mass transit, rail access, and walkability (among other reasons, like tax breaks).

kernals12

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Re: Locals don't want the US 1 overpasses near Crystal City torn down
« Reply #82 on: February 03, 2021, 10:04:45 AM »

....

I'm sure they'll find it very easy to attract workers to a place like that. It's not like Washington DC has other prestigious employers that provide their employees with parking... wait.

You do realize that the overwhelming majority of employers in downtown DC don’t "provide" parking because the employees still have to pay for it, even if they get a pretax subsidy?

There's also, you know, other ways to commute to work in DC (which some employers subsidize, to my understanding).

Specifically regarding the development 1995hoo mentioned, this is just 2 blocks away!

*ducks*

It's a way of commuting alright, a very miserable one. All these yuppie oriented developments are going to become ghost towns in this aging suburbanizing world of ours.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2021, 10:10:27 AM by kernals12 »
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froggie

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Re: Locals don't want the US 1 overpasses near Crystal City torn down
« Reply #83 on: February 03, 2021, 12:26:49 PM »

Since there's been discussion here about Amazon, I see they've submitted plans to build this 350-foot thing at the corner of South 12th and Eads Streets. It's to be surrounded by three 22-story buildings with 2.8 million square feet of office space and—this will surely please kernals12 to no end—no parking garages.

(image snipped)

so Seattle gets Bezos's Balls; NOVA gets Bezos's... poopmoji?

You're not the first one I've seen to make the comparison...it lit up on DC area twitter yesterday.
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Re: Locals don't want the US 1 overpasses near Crystal City torn down
« Reply #84 on: February 03, 2021, 12:30:52 PM »

Since there's been discussion here about Amazon, I see they've submitted plans to build this 350-foot thing at the corner of South 12th and Eads Streets. It's to be surrounded by three 22-story buildings with 2.8 million square feet of office space and—this will surely please kernals12 to no end—no parking garages.

(image snipped)

so Seattle gets Bezos's Balls; NOVA gets Bezos's... poopmoji?

You're not the first one I've seen to make the comparison...it lit up on DC area twitter yesterday.

When I saw the picture, I actually thought it was intentionally built to resemble the emoji.
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Re: Locals don't want the US 1 overpasses near Crystal City torn down
« Reply #85 on: February 03, 2021, 06:02:10 PM »

....

I'm sure they'll find it very easy to attract workers to a place like that. It's not like Washington DC has other prestigious employers that provide their employees with parking... wait.

You do realize that the overwhelming majority of employers in downtown DC don’t "provide" parking because the employees still have to pay for it, even if they get a pretax subsidy?

There's also, you know, other ways to commute to work in DC (which some employers subsidize, to my understanding).

Specifically regarding the development 1995hoo mentioned, this is just 2 blocks away!

*ducks*

It's a way of commuting alright, a very miserable one. All these yuppie oriented developments are going to become ghost towns in this aging suburbanizing world of ours.
Personal opinion emphasized over fact.

1995hoo

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Re: Locals don't want the US 1 overpasses near Crystal City torn down
« Reply #86 on: February 04, 2021, 07:36:34 AM »

....

I'm sure they'll find it very easy to attract workers to a place like that. It's not like Washington DC has other prestigious employers that provide their employees with parking... wait.

You do realize that the overwhelming majority of employers in downtown DC don’t "provide" parking because the employees still have to pay for it, even if they get a pretax subsidy?

You do realize that most DC area residents don't work downtown? Have you seen the massive parking lots around the Pentagon?

Are you really as stupid as you make yourself sound? It’s not a secret on this forum where I live. My profile even tells you without having to click on my username.
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commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

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Re: Locals don't want the US 1 overpasses near Crystal City torn down
« Reply #87 on: February 04, 2021, 07:43:31 AM »

Are you really as stupid as you make yourself sound? It’s not a secret on this forum where I live. My profile even tells you without having to click on my username.

kernals12 might not be aware of where Fairfax County is. In addition, your location is listed as one county away; I would imagine that most people don't go to every single adjacent county (or independent city in this case) on a regular basis. For example, I live in the Lowell/Lawrence/Haverhill area, but I don't go more than a mile inside 128 that often (which is inward just like Fairfax County → Pentagon is).

You also don't need to be a local to propose a potential improvement, like I did with the left turn ban proposal and also jakeroot's analysis.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2021, 07:48:48 AM by 1 »
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1995hoo

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Re: Locals don't want the US 1 overpasses near Crystal City torn down
« Reply #88 on: February 04, 2021, 08:09:44 AM »

Are you really as stupid as you make yourself sound? It’s not a secret on this forum where I live. My profile even tells you without having to click on my username.

kernals12 might not be aware of where Fairfax County is. In addition, your location is listed as one county away; I would imagine that most people don't go to every single adjacent county (or independent city in this case) on a regular basis. For example, I live in the Lowell/Lawrence/Haverhill area, but I don't go more than a mile inside 128 that often (which is inward just like Fairfax County → Pentagon is).

You also don't need to be a local to propose a potential improvement, like I did with the left turn ban proposal and also jakeroot's analysis.

Have you read his other threads? Once upon a time, I would have given him the benefit of the doubt, much as you seem to be suggesting. But I think he's forfeited that privilege by now.

Edited to add: In addition, if kernals12 is really as much of an expert on the DC area as he claims to be, then it's reasonable to expect him to know where Fairfax County is.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2021, 08:13:39 AM by 1995hoo »
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"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

jmacswimmer

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Re: Locals don't want the US 1 overpasses near Crystal City torn down
« Reply #89 on: February 04, 2021, 08:35:10 AM »

....

I'm sure they'll find it very easy to attract workers to a place like that. It's not like Washington DC has other prestigious employers that provide their employees with parking... wait.

You do realize that the overwhelming majority of employers in downtown DC don’t "provide" parking because the employees still have to pay for it, even if they get a pretax subsidy?

There's also, you know, other ways to commute to work in DC (which some employers subsidize, to my understanding).

Specifically regarding the development 1995hoo mentioned, this is just 2 blocks away!

*ducks*

It's a way of commuting alright, a very miserable one. All these yuppie oriented developments are going to become ghost towns in this aging suburbanizing world of ours.
Personal opinion emphasized over fact.

The "yuppie oriented developments" will be just fine as long as the jobs are there to support it.  Crystal City/Pentagon City will be just fine with Amazon coming to town (as seicer explained quite nicely above).  Not to mention that big 5-sided building just on the other side of I-395!
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1995hoo

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Re: Locals don't want the US 1 overpasses near Crystal City torn down
« Reply #90 on: February 04, 2021, 08:58:14 AM »

....

I'm sure they'll find it very easy to attract workers to a place like that. It's not like Washington DC has other prestigious employers that provide their employees with parking... wait.

You do realize that the overwhelming majority of employers in downtown DC don’t "provide" parking because the employees still have to pay for it, even if they get a pretax subsidy?

There's also, you know, other ways to commute to work in DC (which some employers subsidize, to my understanding).

Specifically regarding the development 1995hoo mentioned, this is just 2 blocks away!

*ducks*

It's a way of commuting alright, a very miserable one. All these yuppie oriented developments are going to become ghost towns in this aging suburbanizing world of ours.
Personal opinion emphasized over fact.

The "yuppie oriented developments" will be just fine as long as the jobs are there to support it.  Crystal City/Pentagon City will be just fine with Amazon coming to town (as seicer explained quite nicely above).  Not to mention that big 5-sided building just on the other side of I-395!

Speaking of that big five-sided building, a certain someone might be surprised to see just how many people in military uniforms commute to said building on the Metrorail. Plenty of others drive, of course.

That building's parking lots are also the location of some of the most thriving slug lines in the DC area. The Street View imagery is outdated due to the surrounding roads being reconfigured in the past few years, but you can see the slug line area along here—those aren't bus shelters. The overall slugging configuration remained the same after the Pentagon reconfigured the "Pork Chop" area—it's the bus access to the Pentagon Transit Center that was reconfigured to run around the outside of the Pork Chop to facilitate both vehicular and pedestrian access to and from that area by reducing conflict with traffic heading to and from the Transit Center. The satellite view gives a more accurate current image of where the roads go. (During the summer of 2019 I was working downtown at an office with no parking and the Metro was shut down south of the airport, so I rode the free shuttle bus to the Pentagon and caught the train there and thus got to see this area in operation every day.)
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"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

seicer

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Re: Locals don't want the US 1 overpasses near Crystal City torn down
« Reply #91 on: February 04, 2021, 09:00:46 AM »

The interesting thing is that the Pentagon has a well used Metro stop on two lines, a bus hub serving eight providers, and a long-term master plan that calls for the removal of much of the surrounding parking lots and the reconstruction of many of those wasteful loop ramps (in coordination with VDOT). For comparison purposes, the Metro stop serves ~14,000 people per day while there are 8,494 parking spaces. Additionally, federal guidelines call for a ratio of 1 parking space per 4 employees; the Pentagon is somewhere around 1:2.7, with long-term improvements taking that ratio to 1:3.2. Lastly, the surface parking lots consume up twice as much land in comparison to the buildings themselves. I've always wondered why the Pentagon doesn't build parking garages to house the cars as was originally proposed in the 2005 Master Plan (and not proposed in the 2014 Master Plan).

https://www.ncpc.gov/files/Pentagon_Reservation_Master_Plan_Project_Design_MP174_Jan2015.pdf

If you page through the years on Historic Aerials, note the prevalence of loop ramps - like it was a fashion statement that wasn't going away. Also, see page 2-7 in the document above.

1995hoo

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Re: Locals don't want the US 1 overpasses near Crystal City torn down
« Reply #92 on: February 04, 2021, 09:19:40 AM »

.... I've always wondered why the Pentagon doesn't build parking garages to house the cars as was originally proposed in the 2005 Master Plan (and not proposed in the 2014 Master Plan).

....

I wonder whether it might have something to do with security and dispersing the blast effect if someone managed to set off a car bomb. I assume, but don't know for sure, that an explosion in a garage would likely be more damaging than an explosion in that big surface sea of parking because of the way the garage would presumably concentrate the blast (and, of course, if the garage collapsed).

There used to be a direct entrance into the Pentagon from the Metro station. If you get on or off the trains there, you can see where it was—it was directly across from fare control where there is now a big bricked-up wall. It was an obvious security risk. I don't remember when they closed that, but I assume it would be easy to find online. (I do recall when some security-related changes in the DC area happened: East Executive Avenue between the White House and the Treasury was closed to public vehicles after the Marine barracks in Beirut were bombed in the early 1980s. The parking garage under the Air and Space Museum was closed to the public after tensions with Libya around 1986. Pennsylvania Avenue past the White House was closed to the public during the summer of 1995, a few months after the Oklahoma City bombing.)
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"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

AlexandriaVA

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Re: Locals don't want the US 1 overpasses near Crystal City torn down
« Reply #93 on: February 04, 2021, 10:00:44 AM »

The ignorance on this discussion is staggering.
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1995hoo

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Re: Locals don't want the US 1 overpasses near Crystal City torn down
« Reply #94 on: February 04, 2021, 01:38:19 PM »

The interesting thing is that the Pentagon has a well used Metro stop on two lines, a bus hub serving eight providers, and a long-term master plan that calls for the removal of much of the surrounding parking lots and the reconstruction of many of those wasteful loop ramps (in coordination with VDOT). For comparison purposes, the Metro stop serves ~14,000 people per day while there are 8,494 parking spaces. Additionally, federal guidelines call for a ratio of 1 parking space per 4 employees; the Pentagon is somewhere around 1:2.7, with long-term improvements taking that ratio to 1:3.2. Lastly, the surface parking lots consume up twice as much land in comparison to the buildings themselves. I've always wondered why the Pentagon doesn't build parking garages to house the cars as was originally proposed in the 2005 Master Plan (and not proposed in the 2014 Master Plan).

https://www.ncpc.gov/files/Pentagon_Reservation_Master_Plan_Project_Design_MP174_Jan2015.pdf

If you page through the years on Historic Aerials, note the prevalence of loop ramps - like it was a fashion statement that wasn't going away. Also, see page 2-7 in the document above.

I got a chance to look at that document while I was eating lunch and I notice there are mentions that parking garages were considered over the years, but then there is no discussion of them. Because several portions relating to security were redacted, that further suggests to me that the parking garages would present a security problem.

It's interesting to note all the discussion of alternatives to driving in that report. A certain someone won't read it, of course, because it doesn't fit in with his view of the "massive parking lots around the Pentagon."

Regarding the loop ramps around the Pentagon, I know there used to be a cloverleaf between what is now Pentagon City and the Pentagon Reservation. My late father was stationed at the Pentagon for the final part of his military service in the 1970s and he had a photo of it as it looked then, signed by his colleagues, from when he was discharged. That cloverleaf was in the foreground. I haven't seen that photo in a long time, but I recall thinking it looked like the interchange was with the roadways that are now the HO/T lanes just to the east of the spot where the reversible roadway used to end (or begin). (I say "used to" because reversible operations now extend east to Eads Street.)
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"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

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Re: Locals don't want the US 1 overpasses near Crystal City torn down
« Reply #95 on: February 04, 2021, 01:56:14 PM »

Something that's crossed my mind before are the lots on the far side of 395 from the Pentagon along the north side of Army-Navy Drive:

Hayes St (across from Pentagon City Mall): https://www.google.com/maps/@38.86609,-77.06102,162m/data=!3m1!1e3

Eads St lots: https://www.google.com/maps/@38.8653645,-77.0549516,162m/data=!3m1!1e3

They're really not all that convenient for getting to the Pentagon, and it seems like the DoD has to put in a disproportionate amount of resources to operates those lots (shuttles, security, etc). There's a good amount of parking, but hardly totally consequential in the big picture.

If there was ever going to be a garage compromise, I figured it would involve "transferring" those spots to a garage somewhere on the Pentagon compound, and then selling/swapping the land for separate developments.

Note that I'm not personally complaining - I find the Hayes St. lot, across from the Pentagon City mall, extremely convenient to use when I go (or used to go, pre-COVID) shopping at that mall on nights, weekends, and holidays (all free-use for the public).

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Re: Locals don't want the US 1 overpasses near Crystal City torn down
« Reply #96 on: February 04, 2021, 02:00:08 PM »

....

Note that I'm not personally complaining - I find the Hayes St. lot, across from the Pentagon City mall, extremely convenient to use when I go (or used to go, pre-COVID) shopping at that mall on nights, weekends, and holidays (all free-use for the public).

I did not know about this availability, and I was contemplating going to that mall this weekend. Thanks for the tip!
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"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

AlexandriaVA

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Re: Locals don't want the US 1 overpasses near Crystal City torn down
« Reply #97 on: February 04, 2021, 02:04:55 PM »

Maybe I shouldn't haven given away my good tips!

If the weather is bad, or if I know I'll conduct business at Macy's/Nordstroms, I'll take the free validated parking.

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.8657889,-77.0606,3a,15y,49.1h,90.71t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sEediFE1tBuStqCzthj3KhA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

And since the recent removal of the guard shack (a couple years ago), you can probably test your luck and even get in a bit before 5:00 PM, but YMMV.

I realize the sign doesn't explicitly say "Public parking allowed during other hours", but I've parked there literally at least 50 times in the past few years, without any issue. The thing to remember is that this is one of the main ways to get to the 9-11 memorial, so I imagine they might prefer to allow the general public to use this particular lot, and walk over to the memorial. I'll note that there are now a few motorcoach parking spaces there as well.

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jakeroot

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Re: Locals don't want the US 1 overpasses near Crystal City torn down
« Reply #98 on: February 04, 2021, 02:20:32 PM »

On the two Pentagon lots south of 395:

I measured on Google Maps, and both lots are about 1500 feet from main Pentagon entrances. About three-tenths of a mile, give or take. Doesn't seem long enough to justify a shuttle. Especially when you consider how big the Pentagon already is. I walked a loop of the place in December 2019, and it's not exactly a short walk round. I'm sure the workers are more than fit enough to stomach that walk!

1995hoo

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Re: Locals don't want the US 1 overpasses near Crystal City torn down
« Reply #99 on: February 04, 2021, 02:26:20 PM »

On the two Pentagon lots south of 395:

I measured on Google Maps, and both lots are about 1500 feet from main Pentagon entrances. About three-tenths of a mile, give or take. Doesn't seem long enough to justify a shuttle. Especially when you consider how big the Pentagon already is. I walked a loop of the place in December 2019, and it's not exactly a short walk round. I'm sure the workers are more than fit enough to stomach that walk!

Could the shuttles perhaps relate to accessibility for handicapped personnel?
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