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Zip and area codes

Started by 1995hoo, September 21, 2012, 09:03:21 AM

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mgk920

Quote from: brad2971 on September 29, 2012, 09:12:31 AM
Quote from: Road Hog on September 29, 2012, 09:04:51 AM
At some point in the next 30 years we're going to run out of phone numbers. There are some proposals out there, like adding a 0 at the end of area codes and making area codes four digits. But any new numbering plan needs to be settled now, so that new equipment can be manufactured that's ready for the change.

Nope, not even close. Not even half the area codes that are available under current requirements now are being used, and this last decade has seen area code allotment slow to no more than 2/year. In fact, we're in the middle of a process in which numbers themselves are alloted in 1000-number increments instead of the previous 10000-number increment. So, instead of a company getting an allotment like 303-979-xxxx, you are seeing a company get 303-979-9xxx.

Confusing, to be sure. Also, it helps the phone numbers last a few more generations.

In fact, over the past several years, quite a few 10K blocks have been returned to the assignment pool - those that were used by the paging companies (remember them?).

Should lightning ever strike and the 'World Zone 1' number pool need to be expanded, provision has already been made for that - area codes ('NPA's) would be expanded to four digits with the addition of a '9' in position 2.  Thus, for example, my home '920' would become '9920'.  This would allow for a transitional dialing period and is why there are no area codes with a '9' in the middle position.  Once the permissive transitional dialing period is over, the numbers 0-8 would be allowed in that position.  Also, as before, position three in that new number will not be a '9', again to allow for any potential further future expansion.

As it stands now, we could add Mexico, rest of Central America and the Caribbean to the 'World Zone 1' numbering area and still be in no danger of running out of numbers within the rest of my lifetime.

Mike


brad2971

Quote from: mgk920 on September 29, 2012, 10:56:24 AM
Quote from: brad2971 on September 29, 2012, 09:12:31 AM
Quote from: Road Hog on September 29, 2012, 09:04:51 AM
At some point in the next 30 years we're going to run out of phone numbers. There are some proposals out there, like adding a 0 at the end of area codes and making area codes four digits. But any new numbering plan needs to be settled now, so that new equipment can be manufactured that's ready for the change.

Nope, not even close. Not even half the area codes that are available under current requirements now are being used, and this last decade has seen area code allotment slow to no more than 2/year. In fact, we're in the middle of a process in which numbers themselves are alloted in 1000-number increments instead of the previous 10000-number increment. So, instead of a company getting an allotment like 303-979-xxxx, you are seeing a company get 303-979-9xxx.

Confusing, to be sure. Also, it helps the phone numbers last a few more generations.

In fact, over the past several years, quite a few 10K blocks have been returned to the assignment pool - those that were used by the paging companies (remember them?).

Should lightning ever strike and the 'World Zone 1' number pool need to be expanded, provision has already been made for that - area codes ('NPA's) would be expanded to four digits with the addition of a '9' in position 2.  Thus, for example, my home '920' would become '9920'.  This would allow for a transitional dialing period and is why there are no area codes with a '9' in the middle position.  Once the permissive transitional dialing period is over, the numbers 0-8 would be allowed in that position.  Also, as before, position three in that new number will not be a '9', again to allow for any potential further future expansion.

As it stands now, we could add Mexico, rest of Central America and the Caribbean to the 'World Zone 1' numbering area and still be in no danger of running out of numbers within the rest of my lifetime.

Mike

And of course, let's not forget the fact that Cell Number Portability (since late 2003!) and Local Number Portability have both helped slow down the issuance of numbers. Not to mention, something along the lines of 30 million local access lines have been disconnected just in the last decade.

brad2971

Quote from: 6a on September 28, 2012, 04:43:42 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on September 28, 2012, 11:01:21 AM
In Kentucky, in general local calling areas are limited to your county. Anything outside your county is long distance.

I was told by a BellSouth customer service lady that Atlanta has the largest local calling area in the world - you can call a small part of Alabama as a local call.  It was weird moving to a place like you describe, where only a couple miles can make the difference.

Both Denver and Phoenix would greatly beg to differ. You can make a call from Longmont to Castle Rock (freeway distance about 60 miles) and it's still local. A call from Buckeye in the far West Valley to Apache Junction in the far East Valley (freeway distance close to 70 miles) is also a local call.

The High Plains Traveler

Quote from: brad2971 on September 29, 2012, 11:23:58 AM
Quote from: 6a on September 28, 2012, 04:43:42 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on September 28, 2012, 11:01:21 AM
In Kentucky, in general local calling areas are limited to your county. Anything outside your county is long distance.

I was told by a BellSouth customer service lady that Atlanta has the largest local calling area in the world - you can call a small part of Alabama as a local call.  It was weird moving to a place like you describe, where only a couple miles can make the difference.

Both Denver and Phoenix would greatly beg to differ. You can make a call from Longmont to Castle Rock (freeway distance about 60 miles) and it's still local. A call from Buckeye in the far West Valley to Apache Junction in the far East Valley (freeway distance close to 70 miles) is also a local call.
Minneapolis-St. Paul is similarly large. It extends from Cambridge on the north to LeSueur, in the 507 area, on the south, about 70 miles. That's at least five area codes (I'm not sure if any area code 320 exchanges are within the MSP area), with no overlays, that have partial or full coverage within that free calling area. Nothing is free, of course, because every time the calling area would expand, my base phone rate would go up by a few cents.
"Tongue-tied and twisted; just an earth-bound misfit, I."

txstateends

Area codes have sure popped up like weeds in TX.  About 25+ years ago, there were maybe 7 or 8 in the whole state--now there are like 25 or so.  There are now 9 in the greater north TX area (214, 469, 972 in Dallas; 682, 817 in Fort Worth; 940 for Denton, Wichita Falls and the NW; 254 for Hillsboro, and south/SW; and 430, 903 in Sherman-Denison, Tyler-Longview, and NE/east).  The latest, 737, is being added to 512 in Austin.

When I lived in suburban Dallas in the mid-late 1960s, it was long-distance to call Dallas.  Now it's not.  There are still some fringe suburbs in north TX that have non-localized prefixes mixed with local/metro ones.  Until a few years ago, the phone companies in DFW printed guides and maps in the first part of the phone book to tell you where the prefixes were in each exchange and if any were local calls from other exchanges.  Now they can't be bothered, not only to do that guide info, but now you even have to beg them for a phone book since they don't automatically send them to you anymore.

For a time, my mother and I lived with my grandmother.  She had local phone company service that didn't come from one of the biggie telcos or baby Bells, and for many years a black rotary phone.  You could dial 6-nnnn back then to get someone locally.  This company's pay phones were really different.  You didn't put your change in before dialing--you put it in after the party answered the phone.  And for some reason, you had to give the operator the pay phone number during the process (they apparently had no way of knowing what the pay phone's phone number was).

As for zips, I used to keep up with which local and nearby spots had what zip code.  Now I don't since I hardly have to mail anything (the only thing I regularly still mail is my tax return).  If I have to do something like a zip search to help someone at work, I look it up on USPS' website.
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SP Cook

Semi random, semi-rant area code thoughts.

- To flesh out the original area code deal, the middle number did have to be a 1 or a 0 and the other two could not be.  They also designed it so you dialed less.  Think about a rotary dial.   Roughly the most populated places got the smallest number of clicks, with the smallest (212) going to NYC, followed by 213 for LA, 312 for Chicago, 412 for Pittsburgh, etc.  While the longest number of clicks went to the most remote places ending with 902 for Atlantic Canada. 

- In my state, where there is really only one area code, the idiots at the state PSC made the phone company make us dial the area code even for local calls, because the do-gooders said poor people would not understand if it was long distance or not if they could call within the area code, but long distance, with 7 numbers.  If you are too stupid to know what is long distance, then you are too stupid to have phone.  If a couple of long distance call mistakes crashes your budget, you need to have the phone taken out and spend the time you waste on it looking for a better job, or studying to improve your marketability.

- IMHO, we made a mistake back when we did away with the original area code system (eliminating the 0-1 middle system), because now we have so many area codes and overlays and its just going to get worse.  If we had just duplicated the middle number (i.e. 201 becomes 2010 in four number system), then used the rest of the numbers (i.e. when out of 2010 numbers, start using 2011, then 2012, etc) you effectivly multiply the number of phone numbers in each area code by 10, and no place yet would be out of numbers.


english si

Some thoughts from across the pond.

Zipcodes - vague and uninformative: our alphanumeric postcodes (just the UK - Ireland has an ancient townland system and the rest of Europe seems to use something like Zipcodes) get detailled fast. The use of letters means that I can work out roughly where the address is just from the postcode's first 1 or 2 letters. Then there's a post office number - these get you basically to a 5-digit zipcode level within 2-to-4 characters. Then round number and a two digit letter code that gets you to a group of addresses, if not one address (though they avoid that for residential dwellings, it seems - which is perhaps a good idea). To post a letter the most you actually need is a house number and a postcode, though people do put addresses on just in case. SatNavs work best when you insert a postcode - sure an address is slightly more accurate, but postcodes are 8 characters at the absolute most and get you to such a fine degree of accuracy there's no point bothering with anything else.

Our phone number system has gone through some changes. Cell phones have 07xxx xxxxxx numbers, rather than geographic 01 and 02 numbers. Areas where there's lots of growth, but didn't have 01x1 or 011x then 7-digit numbers (and London which was 0171/0181 but was growing) have 02x 8-digit numbers. So a London number 0181 811 8181 became 020 8811 8181 (the extra digit being the 8 as it was an outer London number that began with 0181) - but now new numbers are in the 020 3xxx xxxx pattern and then they will move to 020 4xxx xxx when they've run out of those. Southampton and Portsmouth went for 5-digit codes/6-digit numbers to 023 8-digit number - Southampton starting with 023 80xx xxxx and Portsmouth 023 92xx xxxx (I can't recall what the original codes were, but 80 and 92 were linked to them). There's a huge wealth of numbers in these cities now - they haven't used up the third starting digits yet either.

And the codes mean something (normally - newer codes less so):
0121 - Birmingham (2 for B), 0131 - Edinburgh (3 for E), 0141 - Glasgow (4 for G), 0151 - Liverpool (5 for L), 0161 - Manchester (6 for M). 01494 - High Wycombe (49 for HW), etc, etc. There's a big list on wikipedia. In the big cities - London (originally 01 before they split it into 071 and 081, then they added the 1 in the 90s for the whole country for mobiles to get 7, and various fixed-rate numbers to get 05, 08 and 09 numbers, then switched over to the 020 numbers in the late 90s) and the 01x1 numbers - the first two digits of the 7, the Exchange, was typically also some two digit code that fitted the area, though I gather that the latter is also the case in America.

Scott5114

You can do that with US zip codes too if you really wanted to. A number of states are allocated to each first digit; for example 7 is Oklahoma, Texas, Arkansas, and Louisiana. This is because the first three digits refer to the regional processing center the letter is to be sent through.  There's a handy list of them on Wikipedia. All Oklahoma City-area zip codes start with either 730 or 731. Then the last two digits are zones within each processing center's service area. Smaller towns will only have one or may even share with other nearby towns (Goldsby, Washington, and Cole all share 73093) but larger cities usually have multiple codes (Norman has 73069, 73070–which is post office boxes only–, 73071, and 73072). The "plus four" code is often able to narrow it down to one street or even complex of buildings but most of the time it's not used by the populace at large (in fact, I can't even tell you without looking what my plus four code is).

It may not be as easy to remember as the letters that UK postcodes use, but once you see enough of them you can kind of get a feel of roughly where an unusual city is based off its zip code.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

The High Plains Traveler

Quote from: SP Cook on September 30, 2012, 08:12:24 AM
Semi random, semi-rant area code thoughts.

- To flesh out the original area code deal, the middle number did have to be a 1 or a 0 and the other two could not be.  They also designed it so you dialed less.  Think about a rotary dial.   Roughly the most populated places got the smallest number of clicks, with the smallest (212) going to NYC, followed by 213 for LA, 312 for Chicago, 412 for Pittsburgh, etc.  While the longest number of clicks went to the most remote places ending with 902 for Atlantic Canada. 

- In my state, where there is really only one area code, the idiots at the state PSC made the phone company make us dial the area code even for local calls, because the do-gooders said poor people would not understand if it was long distance or not if they could call within the area code, but long distance, with 7 numbers.  If you are too stupid to know what is long distance, then you are too stupid to have phone.  If a couple of long distance call mistakes crashes your budget, you need to have the phone taken out and spend the time you waste on it looking for a better job, or studying to improve your marketability.

- IMHO, we made a mistake back when we did away with the original area code system (eliminating the 0-1 middle system), because now we have so many area codes and overlays and its just going to get worse.  If we had just duplicated the middle number (i.e. 201 becomes 2010 in four number system), then used the rest of the numbers (i.e. when out of 2010 numbers, start using 2011, then 2012, etc) you effectivly multiply the number of phone numbers in each area code by 10, and no place yet would be out of numbers.


The original pool of numbers from 1947, long before any customer could dial them, had an additional feature. If the first digit was "0", it was the only area code within a state. If it was "1" then there were multiple area codes. That pattern was broken by the mid-1950s, though obviously if a state still has just one code it has a middle 0. While we think of adding new area codes as a late 20th century phenomenon, they were actually starting to be added by the 1950s.

And finally a piece of trivia. In the first round of area code assignments, Iowa and California had the same number of zones (3).
"Tongue-tied and twisted; just an earth-bound misfit, I."

SP Cook

Quote from: The High Plains Traveler on September 30, 2012, 09:49:12 AM

The original pool of numbers from 1947, long before any customer could dial them,

Actually, they were introduced for the very purpose of bringing in "direct dialing", which was launched November 10, 1951 in parts of New Jersey (where the Bell Labs guys lived).  Although it was the late 60s before it rolled out everywhere in the USA, and the mid 70s in Arctic Canada.


Quote
And finally a piece of trivia. In the first round of area code assignments, Iowa and California had the same number of zones (3).

And no southern state (except Texas, which had only 4) had any number of area codes besides one, even Florida and Georgia.  More evidence that air conditioning really is the greatest invention of the modern age.


roadman65

Is the 407 area code of Florida the only area code where you MUST dial the area code even when you are dialing within it?  I still see many places  outside the 407 that I have visited advertise on their company vehicles 7 digit phone numbers.  Then I must assume that 7 digit dialing still exists as we have been having dialing the full 10 digits since the 321 area code was co-signed with 407 back in the late 90s.  We in Central Florida have been brainwashed with this, so you automatically assume that all are like us until we see how odd the 7 digit number looks on ads.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

1995hoo

Quote from: roadman65 on September 30, 2012, 10:56:28 AM
Is the 407 area code of Florida the only area code where you MUST dial the area code even when you are dialing within it?  I still see many places  outside the 407 that I have visited advertise on their company vehicles 7 digit phone numbers.  Then I must assume that 7 digit dialing still exists as we have been having dialing the full 10 digits since the 321 area code was co-signed with 407 back in the late 90s.  We in Central Florida have been brainwashed with this, so you automatically assume that all are like us until we see how odd the 7 digit number looks on ads.

No, the ten-digit dialing is fairly common all over the place. The reason you have to do it in your area is the same reason I have to do it in Northern Virginia–there's an "overlay" area code where two area codes cover the same area rather than having each one further subdivided into smaller and smaller areas. Up here, 703 and 571 cover the same geographic territory. They decided it didn't make sense to split 703 into smaller and smaller areas, so instead we dial ten digits for every call, even if I were to call my next-door neighbor. But in contrast, people in the District of Columbia–which is within our local calling area–only have to dial seven digits when calling another number within DC because 202 is the sole area code for the District (they do have to dial the area code when making a local call to Virginia or Maryland, though).

Your area isn't a complete overlap like our 703 and 571, but there's still an overlap–part of the 407 area code covers the same area as a portion of the 321 area code. So you have to dial the full ten digits.

There are also plenty of places where you don't have to dial ten digits. Most of those tend to be more rural because the lower number of phone numbers in use there means they don't have to split area codes or add overlays.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

cpzilliacus

#62
Quote from: SP Cook on September 30, 2012, 08:12:24 AM
Semi random, semi-rant area code thoughts.

- To flesh out the original area code deal, the middle number did have to be a 1 or a 0 and the other two could not be.  They also designed it so you dialed less.  Think about a rotary dial.   Roughly the most populated places got the smallest number of clicks, with the smallest (212) going to NYC, followed by 213 for LA, 312 for Chicago, 412 for Pittsburgh, etc.  While the longest number of clicks went to the most remote places ending with 902 for Atlantic Canada.

Don't forget the "lowest" area code of all - 201 - in North Jersey, home to many of the old (pre-diverstiture) AT&T operations.

Quote from: SP Cook on September 30, 2012, 08:12:24 AM
- In my state, where there is really only one area code, the idiots at the state PSC made the phone company make us dial the area code even for local calls, because the do-gooders said poor people would not understand if it was long distance or not if they could call within the area code, but long distance, with 7 numbers.  If you are too stupid to know what is long distance, then you are too stupid to have phone.  If a couple of long distance call mistakes crashes your budget, you need to have the phone taken out and spend the time you waste on it looking for a better job, or studying to improve your marketability.

You  are in West Virginia, right?  Aren't there some parts of the state where a call to an adjoining state is a local call (not that it matters with cell phones, because it usually does not).  Examples could include Bluefield, W.Va./Va. and Ridgeley, W.Va./Cumberland, Md.

Quote from: SP Cook on September 30, 2012, 08:12:24 AM
- IMHO, we made a mistake back when we did away with the original area code system (eliminating the 0-1 middle system), because now we have so many area codes and overlays and its just going to get worse.  If we had just duplicated the middle number (i.e. 201 becomes 2010 in four number system), then used the rest of the numbers (i.e. when out of 2010 numbers, start using 2011, then 2012, etc) you effectivly multiply the number of phone numbers in each area code by 10, and no place yet would be out of numbers.

That would have been a "neater" solution, wouldn't it? I don't know if the phone system could handle such a change easily, though many (all?) nations in the EU have area codes that are variable-length. 
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

SP Cook

Quote from: cpzilliacus on September 30, 2012, 12:50:06 PM

You  are in West Virginia, right?  Aren't there some parts of the state where a call to an adjoining state is a local call (not that it matters with cell phones, because it usually does not).  Examples could include Bluefield, W.Va./Va. and Ridgeley, W.Va./Cumberland, Md.


Yes, and this is how they acomplished it back before you had to dial an area code.   Please don't nitpick me on the numbers, I am working from memory.  Let's take Bluefield.  Yes, you could (and can) call locally from anyplace in Mercer County, WV to any place in Tazewell County, VA.  So Bluefield, WV phone numbers were 325 in the 304 AC.  Bluefield, VA phone numbers were 326 in the 703 AC.  BUT, there was no 325 phone numbers in the 703 and there was no 326 numbers in the 304.  Thus the system knew what you were doing, even if you made an out-of-state, but local, call. 

They did this all over.  In WV every town up and down the Ohio and along the Potomac was like that, plus Bluefield and Williamson, at least.  Obviously this "wasted" a lot of numbers, since a prefix code would be "used" for two area codes.  I don't think this was uncommon, I seem to remember that Cincinnati was like that (numbers did not repeat between the 513 and 502 and you could make a local call from Covington to Cincy with only 7 numbers) and I am sure that lots of other places like St. Louis and Memphis and so on were too.

vdeane

Quote from: Road Hog on September 29, 2012, 09:04:51 AM
But any new numbering plan needs to be settled now, so that new equipment can be manufactured that's ready for the change.
I don't think so.  Cell phones don't auto-dial when the phone line detects a full number, and newer landlines don't either.  Those phones are going the way of the dinosaur.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

The High Plains Traveler

Quote from: SP Cook on September 30, 2012, 01:15:12 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on September 30, 2012, 12:50:06 PM

You  are in West Virginia, right?  Aren't there some parts of the state where a call to an adjoining state is a local call (not that it matters with cell phones, because it usually does not).  Examples could include Bluefield, W.Va./Va. and Ridgeley, W.Va./Cumberland, Md.


Yes, and this is how they acomplished it back before you had to dial an area code.   Please don't nitpick me on the numbers, I am working from memory.  Let's take Bluefield.  Yes, you could (and can) call locally from anyplace in Mercer County, WV to any place in Tazewell County, VA.  So Bluefield, WV phone numbers were 325 in the 304 AC.  Bluefield, VA phone numbers were 326 in the 703 AC.  BUT, there was no 325 phone numbers in the 703 and there was no 326 numbers in the 304.  Thus the system knew what you were doing, even if you made an out-of-state, but local, call. 

They did this all over.  In WV every town up and down the Ohio and along the Potomac was like that, plus Bluefield and Williamson, at least.  Obviously this "wasted" a lot of numbers, since a prefix code would be "used" for two area codes.  I don't think this was uncommon, I seem to remember that Cincinnati was like that (numbers did not repeat between the 513 and 502 and you could make a local call from Covington to Cincy with only 7 numbers) and I am sure that lots of other places like St. Louis and Memphis and so on were too.
Same thing with Kansas City MO/KS. You had seven-digit dialing between the 816 and 913 area codes within the Kansas City local calling area. With the number crunch, prefixes had to be assigned within each area code (which are both larger than the KC local calling area) that eliminated the ability for shortcut dialing. You still don't have to dial the '1' prefix for those calls, just the area code and number. 
"Tongue-tied and twisted; just an earth-bound misfit, I."

vtk

Columbus (614) was going to get an overlay area code several years ago.  10-digit dialing became an option which we were supposed to practice, which I began doing immediately.  Then some things happened (like mobile carriers being able to reserve blocks of 1000 instead of 10000) and the need for another area code became less urgent.  10-digit dialing remains optional to this day, though 380 is still reserved for when we need it.  I always dial all 10 digits, and I try to make all my contacts in my cell phone stored as 10 digits without a leading 1.

I think I read somewhere that 740, which was split from 614 many years ago, is expected to run out of numbers soon.  As far as I know they don't have a new number reserved or a plan (overlay vs geo split).
Wait, it's all Ohio? Always has been.

Takumi

Quote from: 1995hoo on September 30, 2012, 11:40:25 AM
Up here, 703 and 571 cover the same geographic territory. They decided it didn't make sense to split 703 into smaller and smaller areas, so instead we dial ten digits for every call, even if I were to call my next-door neighbor.

And it was as recent as the early 1970s that 703 was used for the entire state of Virginia. There's an old rotary phone in my kitchen (from when my grandparents lived here) that has the original number still written on it: 703-526-xxxx. Hampton Roads' 757 area code, which was split from 804 in the early 1990s, is already under discussion to have an overlay.
Quote from: Rothman on July 15, 2021, 07:52:59 AM
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Don't @ me. Seriously.

empirestate

As a side question, what are the largest cities than no longer have their original area codes?

brad2971

Quote from: empirestate on September 30, 2012, 07:35:24 PM
As a side question, what are the largest cities than no longer have their original area codes?

San Antonio (210), until about 1992, was in the same area code as Austin. San Diego (619), when area codes were first developed, had the same 213 AC as Los Angeles, then had the same 714 AC as Orange County.

Desert Man

My overlay area code is 442 within the 760 area code shared by north San Diego and west San Bernardino counties, while my zip codes is something of 92203 across from the likes of 92211, 92253 and whatever else (I forgot), since I normally don't write letters in an age of the internet, but it's something you know about wherever you live.

The switching of telephone prefixes to drop the alphabetical lettering as well mail zip codes to have 5-digit ones was meant to make it easy for bureaucracies to handle the traffic and volume of them.

Cities with zips eding at "001" or "-01" are the largest per region when the US postal service installed them in the 1960's in order to forecast or predict the area's future population growth and development, like adding "-02", "-03" and so on.

And the classic 1950s and 60s TV shows when the characters talk of "KLondike-5" or "JaKe-5" interested me in a time of 3-digit prefixes, but before when it was required here to dial "1" then the area code for local phone calls regardless of location.
Get your kicks...on Route 99! Like to turn 66 upside down. The other historic Main street of America.

mgk920

Quote from: empirestate on September 30, 2012, 07:35:24 PM
As a side question, what are the largest cities than no longer have their original area codes?

NYC (the boroughs of Bronx, Brooklyn, Queens and Staten Island, to be exact)?  They all started as '212', but that now only covers Manhattan.

Mike

kphoger

Quote from: SP Cook on September 30, 2012, 08:12:24 AM
If we had just duplicated the middle number (i.e. 201 becomes 2010 in four number system), then used the rest of the numbers (i.e. when out of 2010 numbers, start using 2011, then 2012, etc) you effectivly multiply the number of phone numbers in each area code by 10, and no place yet would be out of numbers.

This is similar to the current favored proposal for future expansion of the NANP.  The current industry recommendation is to turn 555-123-4567 into either 5550-0123-4567 or 5551-1123-4567.
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1995hoo

Quote from: mgk920 on October 01, 2012, 12:51:38 AM
Quote from: empirestate on September 30, 2012, 07:35:24 PM
As a side question, what are the largest cities than no longer have their original area codes?

NYC (the boroughs of Bronx, Brooklyn, Queens and Staten Island, to be exact)?  They all started as '212', but that now only covers Manhattan.

Mike

Technically not all of Manhattan, even–the Marble Hill neighborhood is in the 718 area code because it's on the mainland, even though it's part of the borough of Manhattan (this for historic reasons due to the Harlem River having been re-routed).

I recall a Seinfeld episode where Elaine was distraught about getting a phone number with a 646 area code instead of 212. At the time I kind of rolled my eyes, but then in 2001 when I bought my house I suddenly felt the same way when I realized there was a possibility of getting a 571 number instead of a 703 (though ultimately it wasn't a problem and I got my 703 number).
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

mgk920

Quote from: kphoger on October 01, 2012, 09:18:31 AM
Quote from: SP Cook on September 30, 2012, 08:12:24 AM
If we had just duplicated the middle number (i.e. 201 becomes 2010 in four number system), then used the rest of the numbers (i.e. when out of 2010 numbers, start using 2011, then 2012, etc) you effectivly multiply the number of phone numbers in each area code by 10, and no place yet would be out of numbers.

This is similar to the current favored proposal for future expansion of the NANP.  The current industry recommendation is to turn 555-123-4567 into either 5550-0123-4567 or 5551-1123-4567.

Where did you find that?  The information that I've had since the 1990s is for the expansion being done by adding a '9' into a new position 2 in the area code portion of the number ('NPA' becoming 'N9PA'), thus allowing for a transitional dialing period as I posted above.

Mike



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