Massachusetts milepost exit numbering conversion contract

[Beeper1]

And CT isn't exactly in a hurry to change it on the rest of their highways.  I-395 was a rare case of CT replacing signs for the entire length of a longer highway and it seems like they will keep using the "we're only replacing signs in one area" excuse for not changing anything else.

My bet would be for VT to be the last to change over.  The other states seem to be at least making some attempts, but IIRC from older posts on the topic, VTrans attitude is to not do it until FHWA absolutely forces them to. 

[cl94]

My bet would be for VT to be the last to change over.  The other states seem to be at least making some attempts, but IIRC from older posts on the topic, VTrans attitude is to not do it until FHWA absolutely forces them to.

Do you mean "start changing existing numbers" or "finish transition"? If you meant the latter, I'll place my bets on New York. Good luck getting NYSTA, NYCDOT or Westchester County to change the numbers they control.

[jp the roadgeek]

I'll put my $$ on CT being the last to convert.  We were the last to raise our speed limit above 55 after the national speed limit was abolished.  We were one of the last states to allow Sunday liquor sales.   We've been trying to get Route 11 built since 1972.  Any project has to go through 25 EIS's before even being considered.  It's taken over a year and lawsuits against the developer and insurance company to get a minor league ballpark built.   

[Beeper1]

I think VT will be the last to start, but will probably do everything all at once when they do.

Last to finish would be either CT or NY (the non-NYSDOT roads).

[kalvado]

I think VT will be the last to start, but will probably do everything all at once when they do.

Last to finish would be either CT or NY (the non-NYSDOT roads).

My bet is that HUD displays capable of substituting the exit number would become common enough before NYS completes renumbering...

[Alps]

I'll put my $$ on CT being the last to convert.  We were the last to raise our speed limit above 55 after the national speed limit was abolished.

Hawaii

[roadman]

New Hampshire was all set to begin conversion, but word on the street (pardon the pun) is that the Governor's Budget Commission (which apparently all DOT projects must go through for approval) refused to approve funding for the work.  So I would say that, unless things change, NH will be the last of the New England states to convert.

[vdeane]

I wasn't even aware NH even had plans to convert.

[abqtraveler]

And CT isn't exactly in a hurry to change it on the rest of their highways.  I-395 was a rare case of CT replacing signs for the entire length of a longer highway and it seems like they will keep using the "we're only replacing signs in one area" excuse for not changing anything else.

My bet would be for VT to be the last to change over.  The other states seem to be at least making some attempts, but IIRC from older posts on the topic, VTrans attitude is to not do it until FHWA absolutely forces them to.

If Connecticut sticks to its self-imposed 20-year timeline to complete the conversion to mileage-based numbering, we'd see the full statewide conversion wrapped up in...2035.  But some progress is being made though.  Routes 349 and 184 will get mileage-based exit numbers when their signs are replaced next year, and Routes 8 and 25 are supposedly the next freeways in line to be converted to mile based exits in 2017-2019, with sign replacement contracts already awarded and the contractor for each at work.  My guess is Route 7 would be the last to be converted to mile based exit numbering since signs on the freeway sections were replaced fairly recently.

[Rothman]

We've been trying to get Route 11 built since 1972.

I hereby coin the term "Connecticut Try" as in, "We gave it the old Connecticut Try," which means you really didn't try at all.

[AMLNet49]

I'll put my $$ on CT being the last to convert.  We were the last to raise our speed limit above 55 after the national speed limit was abolished.

Hawaii

Hawaii already has mileage-based numbers.

New Hampshire was all set to begin conversion, but word on the street (pardon the pun) is that the Governor's Budget Commission (which apparently all DOT projects must go through for approval) refused to approve funding for the work.  So I would say that, unless things change, NH will be the last of the New England states to convert.

Interesting given the ability with these projects to pass off the spending to the feds.

[Rothman]

New Hampshire was all set to begin conversion, but word on the street (pardon the pun) is that the Governor's Budget Commission (which apparently all DOT projects must go through for approval) refused to approve funding for the work.  So I would say that, unless things change, NH will be the last of the New England states to convert.

Interesting given the ability with these projects to pass off the spending to the feds.

Not really.  Every state has an obligation limitation from the feds and limited apportionment.  One of the big reactions to exit numbering conversions is, "Isn't there something better to spend that money on?"  You know, like those bridges in poor condition we keep hearing about in the news.  That's the argument that needs to be overcome.

I suppose MA's approach was a type of solution, despite the fact it looks like political will to carry through with their conversion has dissipated:  Using HSIP funds.  FHWA can be such a stickler when it comes to spending HSIP that MA could have just said, "Pfft, might as well use it on this. You make it such a pain to use it anywhere else."

[Alps]

I'll put my $$ on CT being the last to convert.  We were the last to raise our speed limit above 55 after the national speed limit was abolished.

Hawaii

Hawaii already has mileage-based numbers.

Not the part I was quoting. Speed limits.

[abqtraveler]

New Hampshire was all set to begin conversion, but word on the street (pardon the pun) is that the Governor's Budget Commission (which apparently all DOT projects must go through for approval) refused to approve funding for the work.  So I would say that, unless things change, NH will be the last of the New England states to convert.

Interesting given the ability with these projects to pass off the spending to the feds.

The real source of the opposition to converting to mile-based exit numbers in Massachusetts (and the other New England states for that matter) is because people don't want to deal with the inconvenience with a change of exit numbers.  For Connecticut at least, money really isn't the driving factor behind the opposition since the state is replacing signs that have already reached their end-of-life and need replacement, making it cost-effective to implement the exit number conversion at that time.  The greatest opposition to the exit number conversion in Massachusetts is on Cape Cod.  Not surprisingly in Massachusetts, the way Cape Cod goes, so does the remainder of that state.

Not really.  Every state has an obligation limitation from the feds and limited apportionment.  One of the big reactions to exit numbering conversions is, "Isn't there something better to spend that money on?"  You know, like those bridges in poor condition we keep hearing about in the news.  That's the argument that needs to be overcome.

I suppose MA's approach was a type of solution, despite the fact it looks like political will to carry through with their conversion has dissipated:  Using HSIP funds.  FHWA can be such a stickler when it comes to spending HSIP that MA could have just said, "Pfft, might as well use it on this. You make it such a pain to use it anywhere else."

[PHLBOS]

The real source of the opposition to converting to mile-based exit numbers in Massachusetts (and the other New England states for that matter) is because people don't want to deal with the inconvenience with a change of exit numbers.  For Connecticut at least, money really isn't the driving factor behind the opposition since the state is replacing signs that have already reached their end-of-life and need replacement, making it cost-effective to implement the exit number conversion at that time.  The greatest opposition to the exit number conversion in Massachusetts is on Cape Cod.  Not surprisingly in Massachusetts, the way Cape Cod goes, so does the remainder of that state.

It's worth noting that several highways in eastern Massachusetts have had their exit/interchange numbers change once or twice from 1962-1988.  Allow me to run down the list:

1.  Route 128/Yankee Division Highway - the entire Gloucester-to-Braintree stretch changed all its numbers circa 1962; the original numbers had Exit 1 starting at Grant Circle (Route 127 & current Exit 11).  The I-95 (Peabody-to-Canton) and I-93 (Canton-to-Braintree) portions had their numbers change (to the current ones) circa 1987-88.  The Peabody-to-Gloucester stretch of 128 still has its 1962-era numbers and wrong-way sequencing (numbers increase as one head southwest).

2. I-93 north of Boston - originally had the Exit 25 = Route 128 numbering sequence (the numbers increased as one headed further away from Boston).  It changed to having Exit 1 at the Tobin Bridge (then I-95, later US 1) interchange during the early 70s; this change included the experimental MILE XX-EXIT YY tabs.  The numbers changed again (to the current ones) circa 1987 to reflect I-93's extension further south (along existing highways) to Canton.

3.  I-95 south of Canton - original numbers had the Exit 25 = Route 128 motif.  Numbers were changed to the current sequential ones some time during the early-to-mid 70s.

4.  Route 24 - original numbers had the Exit 25 = Route 128 motif.  Numbers were changed to the current sequential ones some time during the early-to-mid 70s.

5.  Southeast Expressway - original numbers had the Exit 25 = Route 128 motif (numbers decreased as one approached Boston).  Numbers were changed to the current I-93 based sequential ones circa 1987.

6.  Route 3 south of Boston - original numbers had the Exit 25 = Route 128 motif (it continued the Southeast Expressway's original numbering).  Numbers were changed to the current sequential ones some time during the late 70s.

The Mass Pike (I-90) & US 3 are the only freeways in the Greater Boston area that are still using their original interchange/exit numbers.

The Central Artery, I-95 north of Peabody & the freeway portions of Route 2 originally did not have numbered interchanges/exits.

Long story short; interchange/exit numbers in Massachusetts aren't as sacred as those who live along the Cape would think.

[bob7374]

The real source of the opposition to converting to mile-based exit numbers in Massachusetts (and the other New England states for that matter) is because people don't want to deal with the inconvenience with a change of exit numbers.  For Connecticut at least, money really isn't the driving factor behind the opposition since the state is replacing signs that have already reached their end-of-life and need replacement, making it cost-effective to implement the exit number conversion at that time.  The greatest opposition to the exit number conversion in Massachusetts is on Cape Cod.  Not surprisingly in Massachusetts, the way Cape Cod goes, so does the remainder of that state.

It's worth noting that several highways in eastern Massachusetts have had their exit/interchange numbers change once or twice from 1962-1988.  Allow me to run down the list:

1.  Route 128/Yankee Division Highway - the entire Gloucester-to-Braintree stretch changed all its numbers circa 1962; the original numbers had Exit 1 starting at Grant Circle (Route 127 & current Exit 11).  The I-95 (Peabody-to-Canton) and I-93 (Canton-to-Braintree) portions had their numbers change (to the current ones) circa 1987-88.  The Peabody-to-Gloucester stretch of 128 still has its 1962-era numbers and wrong-way sequencing (numbers increase as one head southwest).

2. I-93 north of Boston - originally had the Exit 25 = Route 128 numbering sequence (the numbers increased as one headed further away from Boston).  It changed to having Exit 1 at the Tobin Bridge (then I-95, later US 1) interchange during the early 70s; this change included the experimental MILE XX-EXIT YY tabs.  The numbers changed again (to the current ones) circa 1987 to reflect I-93's extension further south (along existing highways) to Canton.

3.  I-95 south of Canton - original numbers had the Exit 25 = Route 128 motif.  Numbers were changed to the current sequential ones some time during the early-to-mid 70s.

4.  Route 24 - original numbers had the Exit 25 = Route 128 motif.  Numbers were changed to the current sequential ones some time during the early-to-mid 70s.

5.  Southeast Expressway - original numbers had the Exit 25 = Route 128 motif (numbers decreased as one approached Boston).  Numbers were changed to the current I-93 based sequential ones circa 1987.

6.  Route 3 south of Boston - original numbers had the Exit 25 = Route 128 motif (it continued the Southeast Expressway's original numbering).  Numbers were changed to the current sequential ones some time during the late 70s.

The Mass Pike (I-90) & US 3 are the only freeways in the Greater Boston area that are still using their original interchange/exit numbers.

The Central Artery, I-95 north of Peabody & the freeway portions of Route 2 originally did not have numbered interchanges/exits.

Long story short; interchange/exit numbers in Massachusetts aren't as sacred as those who live along the Cape would think.

Agreed. And during the conversion of MA 3, they switched the exit numbers along the section south of MA 14 first, and did not change the others until about two years later (apparently during this time MA 14 was signed as Exit 11 NB but as Exit 33 SB). Drivers apparently didn't have too much trouble adapting.

Interestingly, if the milepost exit project ever goes ahead, the Mass Ave exit on I-93 (18) would be restored to it's original number, 15 (heading south, it is proposed to be 15B northbound).

[The Ghostbuster]

I'm sure people will get used to the new numbers in time (if the conversion happens). Massachusetts is hardly the only state to change its exit sequences from sequential to milepost.

[southshore720]

As long as GPS/navigation apps quickly adjust to the new exit numbers, most people will be fine with the conversion.  It's amazing how many people exclusively rely on navigation tools to get around...even in their own cities/towns!

[PHLBOS]

It's amazing how many people exclusively rely on navigation tools to get around...even in their own cities/towns!

It's actually kind of sad IMHO.

[cl94]

It's amazing how many people exclusively rely on navigation tools to get around...even in their own cities/towns!

It's actually kind of sad IMHO.

Yep. Also making it harder to identify when people have dementia. Used to be able to tell if someone couldn't find their way home. Now, they just use a GPS.

[RobbieL2415]

The real source of the opposition to converting to mile-based exit numbers in Massachusetts (and the other New England states for that matter) is because people don't want to deal with the inconvenience with a change of exit numbers.  For Connecticut at least, money really isn't the driving factor behind the opposition since the state is replacing signs that have already reached their end-of-life and need replacement, making it cost-effective to implement the exit number conversion at that time.  The greatest opposition to the exit number conversion in Massachusetts is on Cape Cod.  Not surprisingly in Massachusetts, the way Cape Cod goes, so does the remainder of that state.

It's worth noting that several highways in eastern Massachusetts have had their exit/interchange numbers change once or twice from 1962-1988.  Allow me to run down the list:

1.  Route 128/Yankee Division Highway - the entire Gloucester-to-Braintree stretch changed all its numbers circa 1962; the original numbers had Exit 1 starting at Grant Circle (Route 127 & current Exit 11).  The I-95 (Peabody-to-Canton) and I-93 (Canton-to-Braintree) portions had their numbers change (to the current ones) circa 1987-88.  The Peabody-to-Gloucester stretch of 128 still has its 1962-era numbers and wrong-way sequencing (numbers increase as one head southwest).

2. I-93 north of Boston - originally had the Exit 25 = Route 128 numbering sequence (the numbers increased as one headed further away from Boston).  It changed to having Exit 1 at the Tobin Bridge (then I-95, later US 1) interchange during the early 70s; this change included the experimental MILE XX-EXIT YY tabs.  The numbers changed again (to the current ones) circa 1987 to reflect I-93's extension further south (along existing highways) to Canton.

3.  I-95 south of Canton - original numbers had the Exit 25 = Route 128 motif.  Numbers were changed to the current sequential ones some time during the early-to-mid 70s.

4.  Route 24 - original numbers had the Exit 25 = Route 128 motif.  Numbers were changed to the current sequential ones some time during the early-to-mid 70s.

5.  Southeast Expressway - original numbers had the Exit 25 = Route 128 motif (numbers decreased as one approached Boston).  Numbers were changed to the current I-93 based sequential ones circa 1987.

6.  Route 3 south of Boston - original numbers had the Exit 25 = Route 128 motif (it continued the Southeast Expressway's original numbering).  Numbers were changed to the current sequential ones some time during the late 70s.

The Mass Pike (I-90) & US 3 are the only freeways in the Greater Boston area that are still using their original interchange/exit numbers.

The Central Artery, I-95 north of Peabody & the freeway portions of Route 2 originally did not have numbered interchanges/exits.

Long story short; interchange/exit numbers in Massachusetts aren't as sacred as those who live along the Cape would think.

If you want to get technical, you can throw MA 25 up there, as it has shared exit 1 with I-495 since mid-2006.

[PHLBOS]

It's worth noting that several highways in eastern Massachusetts have had their exit/interchange numbers change once or twice from 1962-1988.  Allow me to run down the list:

1.  Route 128/Yankee Division Highway - the entire Gloucester-to-Braintree stretch changed all its numbers circa 1962; the original numbers had Exit 1 starting at Grant Circle (Route 127 & current Exit 11).  The I-95 (Peabody-to-Canton) and I-93 (Canton-to-Braintree) portions had their numbers change (to the current ones) circa 1987-88.  The Peabody-to-Gloucester stretch of 128 still has its 1962-era numbers and wrong-way sequencing (numbers increase as one head southwest).

2. I-93 north of Boston - originally had the Exit 25 = Route 128 numbering sequence (the numbers increased as one headed further away from Boston).  It changed to having Exit 1 at the Tobin Bridge (then I-95, later US 1) interchange during the early 70s; this change included the experimental MILE XX-EXIT YY tabs.  The numbers changed again (to the current ones) circa 1987 to reflect I-93's extension further south (along existing highways) to Canton.

3.  I-95 south of Canton - original numbers had the Exit 25 = Route 128 motif.  Numbers were changed to the current sequential ones some time during the early-to-mid 70s.

4.  Route 24 - original numbers had the Exit 25 = Route 128 motif.  Numbers were changed to the current sequential ones some time during the early-to-mid 70s.

5.  Southeast Expressway - original numbers had the Exit 25 = Route 128 motif (numbers decreased as one approached Boston).  Numbers were changed to the current I-93 based sequential ones circa 1987.

6.  Route 3 south of Boston - original numbers had the Exit 25 = Route 128 motif (it continued the Southeast Expressway's original numbering).  Numbers were changed to the current sequential ones some time during the late 70s.

The Mass Pike (I-90) & US 3 are the only freeways in the Greater Boston area that are still using their original interchange/exit numbers.

The Central Artery, I-95 north of Peabody & the freeway portions of Route 2 originally did not have numbered interchanges/exits.

Long story short; interchange/exit numbers in Massachusetts aren't as sacred as those who live along the Cape would think.

If you want to get technical, you can throw MA 25 up there, as it has shared exit 1 with I-495 since mid-2006.

I also could add I-495 as well.  The numbers changed during the early 80s to accommodate the southern extension (east of I-95 in Mansfield) as well as the then-MA 25 stretch between Raynham & Wareham.  I-495's original interchange numbers started at I-95 in Mansfield.

I have to confess; when I typed my previous post, I thinking more in terms of the Greater Boston area as opposed to Eastern Massachusetts (which was why I excluded I-495 & MA 25).

If I'm not mistaken, I believe that the interchange numbers along the short stretch of I-295 in Attleboro originally continued w/RI's sequential numbering.

[The Ghostbuster]

Does anyone have any updates on Massachusetts's milepost exit sequence conversion? Will it happen eventually, or is the proposal dead like New York's one-time proposal?

[bob7374]

Does anyone have any updates on Massachusetts's milepost exit sequence conversion? Will it happen eventually, or is the proposal dead like New York's one-time proposal?

I have heard nothing. I don't suspect we'll hear anything unless MassDOT decides to go through with the project. The officials at the US 6 sign project public meeting last summer said if the project went forward it would be preceded by a 6-12 month public relations campaign to educate everyone as to the changes.

It would be useful IMHO, if they are to proceed, to do so as soon as possible given the number of sign replacement projects going on and those scheduled over the next few years. Besides the current projects going on, two on the Mass Pike, the western project is 11% complete, while the eastern is 6% based on the MassDOT project listings, and the recently started project on I-495 from Raynham to Bolton, 3% complete, there are 5 projects scheduled for 2017 and 10 more through 2021. Here's a list:

US 6 Mid-Cape Highway, Spring 2017
I-90/I-93 US 1 Tunnels, Spring 2017
MA 24, Fall River to Randolph, Summer 2017
MA 1A, Boston to Revere, Summer 2017
I-495, Haverhill to Amesbury, Fall 2017
I-495, Bolton to Lowell, Fall 2018
I-290, Auburn to Worcester, Fall 2018
I-95, Attleboro to Norwood, Fall 2018
I-95, Reading to Lynnfield, Winter 2019/20
US 1, Chelsea to Danvers, Winter 2019/20
MA 28, Bourne to Falmouth, Winter
2019/20
MA 146, Uxbridge to Worcester, Fall 2020
I-391, Chicopee to Holyoke, Winter 2020/21
Sections of I-495 and I-195, Winter  2020/21
US 3, Burlington to Tyngsborough, Summer 2021

If they wait until all these are completed, perhaps it will start around 2023.

[PHLBOS]

MA 1A, Boston to Revere, Summer 2017
...
US 1, Chelsea to Danvers, Winter 2019/20
MA 28, Bourne to Falmouth, Winter 2019/20

Granted, you simply copied the list from MassDOT's website & pasted such here but MA 1A, US 1 & MA 28* presently don't have numbered interchanges at all; and, hence, shouldn't/wouldn't be impacted by any conversion.

*I just found out that MA 28 in this section was planned to receive numbered interchanges post-conversion.

Given that the MA 28 Bourne to Falmouth stretch is situated in Cape Cod; one could assume that such will be met with some resistance, especially since the southernmost interchange would be at/around MM 51.  If such gets implemented without a hitch; those howling over the US 6 conversions could be called out as hypocrites.