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Interstate 87 (NC-VA)

Started by LM117, July 14, 2016, 12:29:05 PM

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Beltway

#1550
Quote from: sprjus4 on April 04, 2020, 12:24:54 AM
If this is the case, an upgrade isn't warranted, though an interstate connection is still desired to the south, wouldn't it make the most economic sense to connect with NCDOT's segment with upgrades to that small segment of US-17 (12 miles of limited access highway) at a low cost (under $500 million), rather than construct a whole new interstate highway (70 miles of largely non-limited-access highway) for billions of dollars (over $2 billion) when another is already planned that another state would bore the cost of?
Negatory, because it is 20 miles longer, and it will be 30 years (if ever) before it would be complete and able to do what you claim it could (if it could).

Virtually no one cares about some public benefit that -might- happen in 30 years.

Quote from: sprjus4 on April 04, 2020, 12:24:54 AM
Quote
This violates basic business strategic planning principles, to try to plan a competitive enterprise that far into the future, 2050 or beyond, that is so far into the future that the outcomes are essentially unknowable.
They haven't. I don't think US-58 has been mentioned once in any official discussions regarding I-87 outside this forum.
You keep bringing it up. 

US-58 gets spoken for every day thousands of times as the preferred route to connect to I-95 South from/to South Hampton Roads.
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sprjus4

#1551
Quote from: Beltway on April 04, 2020, 01:07:49 AM
Negatory, because it is 20 miles longer, and it will be 30 years (if ever) before it would be complete and able to do what you claim it could (if it could).
Yet various organizations, including FTAC, in Hampton Roads have already supported that corridor as a southern connection.

I've never once seen the "20 miles longer"  argument come up in Virginia's discussion's other than this forum.

Over the next decade, VDOT may well engage in further detailed study of the corridor, including an EIS to evaluate the needs to bring US-17 to interstate standards.

Quote
Virtually no one cares about some public benefit that -might- happen in 30 years.
May well happen in 15 or 20 years. Either way, I suppose LRTP's are irreverent then. Planning the future? Who ever thought of that.

Quote
You keep bringing it up.
You make the comparison to US-58 virtually every time I-87 is brought up, not to mention the "Norfolk to Raleigh"  description, whether be a new post here or a reference about it.




I'd recommend any further discussion about US-58 be redirected to sparker's new thread, and discussion regarding I-87 be left here.

Beltway

#1552
Quote from: sprjus4 on April 04, 2020, 01:21:05 AM
Quote from: Beltway on April 04, 2020, 01:07:49 AM
Negatory, because it is 20 miles longer, and it will be 30 years (if ever) before it would be complete and able to do what you claim it could (if it could).
Yet various organizations, including FTAC, in Hampton Roads have already supported that corridor as a southern connection.
To where?  OBX?

Quote from: sprjus4 on April 04, 2020, 01:21:05 AM
I've never once seen the "20 miles longer"  argument come up in discussion other than this forum.
There is very little discussion anywhere except in NE NC.  The advocates are being deceptive when they ignore this fact.  Based on the continued deception, it needs to be mentioned repeatedly.

The first time I saw the HPC 13 on a map it looked obviously longer, I thought "What are those people thinking?"

Quote from: sprjus4 on April 04, 2020, 01:21:05 AM
Over the next decade, VDOT may well engage in further detailed study of the corridor, including an EIS to evaluate the needs to bring US-17 to interstate standards.
Based on the fact that nothing was in the 2040 LTRP, it may well be after 2040 (if at all).

Quote
Quote
You keep bringing it up.
You make the comparison to US-58 virtually every time I-87 is brought up, not to mention the "Norfolk to Raleigh"  description, whether be a new post here or a reference about it.
You make the comparison to US-58 virtually every time VI-87 is brought up (upchuck), not to mention the "Norfolk to Raleigh"  description, whether be a new post here or a reference about it.
http://www.roadstothefuture.com
http://www.capital-beltway.com

Baloney is a reserved word on the Internet
    (Robert Coté, 2002)

sprjus4

Quote from: Beltway on April 04, 2020, 01:33:44 AM
To where?  OBX?
Southern connection between Hampton Roads, I-95, and Raleigh.

Quote
There is very little discussion anywhere except in NE NC.  The advocates are being deceptive when they ignore this fact.
Sure about that?

Quote
Based on the continued deception, it needs to be mentioned repeatedly.
I suppose the first 99 times where too misleading.

Quote
Based on the fact that nothing was in the 2040 LTRP, it may well be after 2040 (if at all).
The 2040 LRTP was passed in July 2016, only 3 months after I-87 was approved. Considering the LRTP had been in development for at least a year prior, it makes sense why it wasn't included.

Various organizations in Hampton Roads, including FTAC, have already supported that corridor as a southern connection to I-95 and Raleigh, mostly beginning around 2017, a year after the 2040 LRTP was completed, around a year after the corridor was approved in North Carolina as a future interstate highway.

With a new LRTP in development in conjunction with increasing interest of the corridor in Virginia, it makes sense it's being evaluated as a draft candidate project and may well be initiated into further detailed study in the next decade, including an EIS determining what is needed to bring the remaining section of US-17 up to interstate standards.

Quote
You make the comparison to US-58 virtually every time I-87 is brought up, not to mention the "Norfolk to Raleigh"  description, whether be a new post here or a reference about it.
For example, when I posted the article regarding the highway, you immediately went straight for the "Norfolk to Raleigh"  description, "called"  it out, and when I made mention of the future potential improvements to the US-64 / US-17 corridor, you made the comparison to US-58 and a claim that VDOT could have segments upgraded by the end of 2030, when it was original not even mentioned.

You're making the off-topic comparisons when they're not even originally discussed.

This is going on 3 pages now... any discussion regarding the US-58 corridor ought to be discussed in sparker's thread where's it's on-topic, not a thread about an entirely different corridor.

LM117

Quote from: Beltway on April 04, 2020, 01:33:44 AMThere is very little discussion anywhere except in NE NC.

The Regional Transportation Alliance in Raleigh has also been pushing for it. They were largely responsible for I-495 and played a big role alongside NE NC in pushing for US-64/US-17 to be designated a future interstate in the FAST Act.

That said, I think I-42 and extending I-795 from Goldsboro to I-40 should remain the top priorities as far as future interstates in ENC are concerned.
“I don’t know whether to wind my ass or scratch my watch!” - Jim Cornette

sprjus4

#1555
Quote from: LM117 on April 04, 2020, 07:01:06 AM
That said, I think I-42 and extending I-795 from Goldsboro to I-40 should remain the top priorities as far as future interstates in ENC are concerned.
Agreed, and I think over the next decade project orders will reflect priorities. I-42 construction projects largely over the next decade, I-795 extension towards the end and into 2030, and segments of I-87 eventually beginning around the end of the decade continuing throughout 2030 and potentially into 2040.

For I-795, not much more work is required besides one project to upgrade the US-117 segment to freeway by constructing a few frontage roads, a few interchanges, reconstructing the Mt. Olive interchange, and then building a direct connector with I-40 East.

I'd argue I-42 is certainly a higher priority over I-795, then I-795, then I-87, and unless funding gets accelerated for all projects, the order above will likely be what we'll see progressing over the next 20 years.

Beltway

Quote from: sprjus4 on April 04, 2020, 01:48:27 AM
Various organizations in Hampton Roads, including FTAC, have already supported that corridor as a southern connection to I-95 and Raleigh, mostly beginning around 2017, a year after the 2040 LRTP was completed, around a year after the corridor was approved in North Carolina as a future interstate highway.
Who other than the freight committee?  And given the aforementioned truck/distance disadvantage, it is rather surprising that they would care.  If I was a tractor-trailer owner the extra distance would certainly be problematic given the low fuel mileage.

It is not a new concept.  There were NC newspaper articles posted back around 2005 on the Usenet roads group about a possible Interstate highway along the HPC 13 corridor, and the number discussed back then was I-44.

Quote from: sprjus4 on April 04, 2020, 01:48:27 AM
For example, when I posted the article regarding the highway, you immediately went straight for the "Norfolk to Raleigh"  description, "called"  it out, and when I made mention of the future potential improvements to the US-64 / US-17 corridor, you made the comparison to US-58 and a claim that VDOT could have segments upgraded by the end of 2030, when it was original not even mentioned.
So I addressed the article that was posted, it doesn't matter who posted it, I saw something in the article and I commented on it.  If I respond to news articles that you post, I can snip your attributes out of the header, so there will be no physical link to the poster who posted it, if you want.

The "Norfolk to Raleigh highway"  claim always has been a major issue, and when it resurfaces it can draw a comment.

The proposal probably never would have gotten traction in the first place, without that deceptive claim undergirding.

Quote from: sprjus4 on April 04, 2020, 01:48:27 AM
You're making the off-topic comparisons when they're not even originally discussed.
This is going on 3 pages now... any discussion regarding the US-58 corridor ought to be discussed in sparker's thread where's it's on-topic, not a thread about an entirely different corridor.
I don't consider it off-topic, as there is an established corridor (I-95 and US-58) that makes these connections, and the very name that the advocates use supposes that theirs (US-64 and US-17) will replace that; so that makes the discussion of both a valid topic.  I would say that the US-58/I-95 corridor is integral to the topic of what is proposed to happen along the HPC 13 corridor; the advocates are making it so.

Notice that the name of this thread includes "VA" and I don't support them spending money to upgrade US-17 to Interstate standards.

So I am not going to bifurcate the discussion and put each highway into its own separate thread.

Again note that my discussions include both highways, and they are an associated topic.
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http://www.capital-beltway.com

Baloney is a reserved word on the Internet
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sprjus4

Virus to delay Currituck bridge, other projects
QuoteThree area N.C. Department of Transportation projects, including the already long-delayed Mid-Currituck Bridge, were put on hold this week after state transportation officials said DOT is expecting a $300 million revenue shortfall this year.

DOT gets it funding from various revenue sources, all of which have been adversely affected by the coronavirus crisis.

One of the largest sources of funding is gas tax revenue which has been severely affected by lower gas prices at the pump and motorists driving fewer miles because of stay-at-home orders. DOT also collects taxes on car sales and vehicle fees from the Division of Motor Vehicles.

Two major projects in the region affected by the delay are the $361 million Mid-Currituck Bridge, which would link the Currituck mainland to Corolla on the Currituck Outer Banks, and the U.S. 17 paving rehabilitation project. DOT did not say how long either project would be delayed.

Two other DOT projects in Elizabeth City and another in Perquimans County, however, are still on schedule.

The Highway 17 paving project in Camden County from the Pasquotank County line to the Virginia State line is slated to cost $6.1 million. That section of U.S. 17 is part of the proposed I-87 project that will stretch from Raleigh to the Virginia state line.

Elizabeth City-Pasquotank County Economic Development Commission Director Christian Lockamy is hoping the COVID-19 crisis doesn't have long-term implications for the I-87 project but said that the proposed route from Raleigh into Virginia is already a reliable "transportation corridor"  and that any delay in the project would not have a big impact on economic development.

"Companies have located all along it (U.S. 17) as have community-structured industrial parks,"  Lockamy said. "The expansion of that highway would facilitate probably more industry, more tourism in the coming years. But it is in no way, shape or form now a deal-killer for us to land industries. We have proved that right and left as have other communities along that corridor."

A $2.6 million project in Elizabeth City, that's also still on schedule, includes the laying of 14 miles of fiber optic cable. The project will tie all city traffic lights into DOT's main network in Raleigh to better manage the system.

Two other NCDOT projects in the city, one at Oak Stump Road and U.S. 17 and the other on Hughes Boulevard, were not on the list of projects released Tuesday that are still moving forward or are being delayed. But DOT spokesperson Tim Hass said construction on the Oak Stump Road project, which was scheduled to begin next year, has been pushed back to 2022.

Construction on the Hughes Boulevard project is still scheduled to begin in 2023 but Hass said preliminary engineering for it is "on hold."

The Oak Stump Road project is an intersection improvement estimated to cost $2.1 million. The Hughes Boulevard project will widen the road from three to five lanes on a 1.5-mile stretch between Church and North Road streets. That section will include several roundabouts.

The project in Perquimans County that is moving forward will be include drainage, grading, paving and culvert work on a 4.4-mile stretch along Woodville Road.

Glockspeed Gaming

I was looking at maps as one does, and I realized a couple things:
1, we could build a new connector from the GSP to I-87's western interchange with I-287, and by upgrading GSP to interstate standards, it would be noticeably closer to the I-87 segment in NC. Now realistically this won't happen, but it could if given the time.
2, building a highway along the delmarva peninsula wouldn't be easy, but building a bridge across delaware bay replacing the ferry would help, and we wouldn't have to worry about upgrading DE-1 to interstate standards since the route would only go from Lewes to Cape Charles.

Alps

Quote from: Glockspeed Gaming on June 08, 2020, 11:51:35 AM
I was looking at maps as one does, and I realized a couple things:
1, we could build a new connector from the GSP to I-87's western interchange with I-287, and by upgrading GSP to interstate standards, it would be noticeably closer to the I-87 segment in NC. Now realistically this won't happen, but it could if given the time.
2, building a highway along the delmarva peninsula wouldn't be easy, but building a bridge across delaware bay replacing the ferry would help, and we wouldn't have to worry about upgrading DE-1 to interstate standards since the route would only go from Lewes to Cape Charles.

The idea of a GSP-DE bridge has been floated before and I don't see it ever happening. Not in the least because of all of the upgrades along the GSP that would be needed, or completing NJ 55 (actually less likely than the cross-Bay bridge, somehow). There is a vision to connect the two I-87s, but I would expect DE 1 to be part of it.

planxtymcgillicuddy

Quote from: Alps on June 08, 2020, 02:14:17 PM
Quote from: Glockspeed Gaming on June 08, 2020, 11:51:35 AM
I was looking at maps as one does, and I realized a couple things:
1, we could build a new connector from the GSP to I-87's western interchange with I-287, and by upgrading GSP to interstate standards, it would be noticeably closer to the I-87 segment in NC. Now realistically this won't happen, but it could if given the time.
2, building a highway along the delmarva peninsula wouldn't be easy, but building a bridge across delaware bay replacing the ferry would help, and we wouldn't have to worry about upgrading DE-1 to interstate standards since the route would only go from Lewes to Cape Charles.

The idea of a GSP-DE bridge has been floated before and I don't see it ever happening. Not in the least because of all of the upgrades along the GSP that would be needed, or completing NJ 55 (actually less likely than the cross-Bay bridge, somehow). There is a vision to connect the two I-87s, but I would expect DE 1 to be part of it.

My idea would be to run 87 up 13 past Ocean City and Salisbury from Norfolk, then have it utilize DE 1 to Christiana, then 95 to the NJTP, then the NJTP to 95 and then 95 to 87's southern terminus in The Bronx
It's easy to be easy when you're easy...

Quote from: on_wisconsin on November 27, 2021, 02:39:12 PM
Whats a Limon, and does it go well with gin?

tolbs17

Quote from: planxtymcgillicuddy on June 08, 2020, 04:00:00 PM
Quote from: Alps on June 08, 2020, 02:14:17 PM
Quote from: Glockspeed Gaming on June 08, 2020, 11:51:35 AM
I was looking at maps as one does, and I realized a couple things:
1, we could build a new connector from the GSP to I-87's western interchange with I-287, and by upgrading GSP to interstate standards, it would be noticeably closer to the I-87 segment in NC. Now realistically this won't happen, but it could if given the time.
2, building a highway along the delmarva peninsula wouldn't be easy, but building a bridge across delaware bay replacing the ferry would help, and we wouldn't have to worry about upgrading DE-1 to interstate standards since the route would only go from Lewes to Cape Charles.

The idea of a GSP-DE bridge has been floated before and I don't see it ever happening. Not in the least because of all of the upgrades along the GSP that would be needed, or completing NJ 55 (actually less likely than the cross-Bay bridge, somehow). There is a vision to connect the two I-87s, but I would expect DE 1 to be part of it.

My idea would be to run 87 up 13 past Ocean City and Salisbury from Norfolk, then have it utilize DE 1 to Christiana, then 95 to the NJTP, then the NJTP to 95 and then 95 to 87's southern terminus in The Bronx
That was discussed many times in the fictional highways board. IMO, it should really be I-99. Make a spur from Raleigh to Williamston. Or call that I-46.

sprjus4

#1562
Quote from: sprjus4 on September 09, 2018, 07:25:55 PM
Another project proposed for Interstate 87 - "R-5869"

This project would upgrade 4 miles of US 17 to interstate standards from Wiggins Road, along the Hertford bypass, ending at US 17 Business.

Estimated to cost $200 million total, only part of it is currently funded.

An interchange at New Hope Rd, an interchange at Harvey Point Rd, and a flyover at Wynne Fork Road are funded for $60.6 million.

The rest of the 4 miles are programmed for detailed environmental study to determine the impacts of constructing any additional interchanges and access roads. The unfunded project would bring the rest of it up to interstate standards for $139.5 million.
As of the June 2020 update of the 2020 - 2029 STIP, two interchange projects for I-87 near Hertford remain funded for construction beginning in 2028, and an environmental study funded for "South of US-17 Business to North of SR 1220".

Based on that last description, I assumed the $139.5 million portion was an interstate upgrade of the Hertford Bypass, and had questioned its high cost for only 4 miles.

According to a NCDOT project location map however, this segment would actually study / upgrade a 10 mile segment to interstate standards that includes the Hertford Bypass, and the non-limited-access segment connecting to the Edenton Bypass further south. The feasibility study completed in 2019 indicated only one preferred option for this segment which was upgrading the existing alignment. The existing bridges over the Perquimans River near Hertford would be retained with this option.

Being a 10 mile segment, this would mean the estimated cost is around $14 million per mile, closer in line with similar upgrade projects.

The other key segments remaining to complete US-17 to at least freeway standards, not including the US-17 segment north of Elizabeth City (13 miles) scheduled to begin by 2027, would be the Elizabeth City Bypass to Hertford Bypass (6.4 miles), the Edenton Bypass to Windsor Bypass (7.7 miles), and the Windsor Bypass to US-64 (14 miles), most of which would be likely built on new location. The segment through the wetlands would be upgraded on existing location, and the segment near Williamston would either be upgraded or bypassed (both have pros / cons). We will likely see more progression with those segments later on this decade or into next.

Roadgeekteen

Oh dear, was this thread quite the read! I would honestly rather have the US 17 and US 64 parts be different interstates.
God-emperor of Alanland, king of all the goats and goat-like creatures

Current Interstate map I am making:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?hl=en&mid=1PEDVyNb1skhnkPkgXi8JMaaudM2zI-Y&ll=29.05778059819179%2C-82.48856825&z=5

planxtymcgillicuddy

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 09, 2020, 11:59:15 PM
Oh dear, was this thread quite the read! I would honestly rather have the US 17 and US 64 parts be different interstates.

Well, an interstate to the OBX is never happening (that is, unless FritzOwl becomes president, and knowing 2020, anything is possible). US-17 as a full Interstate got shot down when I-99 in NC got the axe.

And as for the sprjus/Beltway cock-waving, it's like Discord, but takes infinitely more time. That's what God invented DMs for, to keep ticky-tacky spats out of forum posts.

Are the two of you listening???
It's easy to be easy when you're easy...

Quote from: on_wisconsin on November 27, 2021, 02:39:12 PM
Whats a Limon, and does it go well with gin?

sprjus4

#1565
Quote from: planxtymcgillicuddy on June 12, 2020, 06:29:57 PM
And as for the sprjus/Beltway cock-waving, it's like Discord, but takes infinitely more time. That's what God invented DMs for, to keep ticky-tacky spats out of forum posts.

Are the two of you listening???
The thread has stayed neutral for the past few months now... let's try to keep it that way.

sparker

Quote from: planxtymcgillicuddy on June 12, 2020, 06:29:57 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 09, 2020, 11:59:15 PM
Oh dear, was this thread quite the read! I would honestly rather have the US 17 and US 64 parts be different interstates.

Well, an interstate to the OBX is never happening (that is, unless FritzOwl becomes president, and knowing 2020, anything is possible). US-17 as a full Interstate got shot down when I-99 in NC got the axe.

And as for the sprjus/Beltway cock-waving, it's like Discord, but takes infinitely more time. That's what God invented DMs for, to keep ticky-tacky spats out of forum posts.

Are the two of you listening???

The concept of a freeway along US 17 south of Williamston never "got the axe"; the composite coastal plan formulated in VA about 20 years ago was rejected as untenable (the nation was just getting over the tech "bubble bursting" about that time), largely because of opposition on the Delmarva peninsula.  The portion in NC seems to be getting eked out a few miles at a time; the expressway section (built to I-geometry standards) south of future I-42 was extended last year; other segments have been planned or even let.  Recent funding shortfalls due to hurricanes/COVID/etc. will probably stretch out the process considerably -- but from what I've gathered recently route studies for extending the section north of I-42 back to original US 17 are in process.  It's NC -- if it's a functional corridor, they'll build it out until there's enough done to provoke action to designate it a future Interstate -- which is what happened with the ill-numbered I-87:  High Priority Corridor #13 was in place since 1991, and the US 64 section of that was built out to a full freeway several years later (although the sections built before '91 were substandard and will require upgrades).  So in 2016 members of the NC congressional delegation simply arranged to have the Interstate designation for that corridor inserted into the HPC #13 authorizing language, and badda-bing, badda-bang, that was that!  Same thing happened four years previously for I-11 over part of HPC #26.  Since the segment of US 17 from the SC line to Williamston is not on an extant corridor, one will have to be cobbled up for that purpose (I-42 and the I-795 extension were designated that way as well in '16; TX did likewise with I-14 the previous year).  NCDOT and corridor backers have this process down pat -- it'll probably be utilized at some point for US 74 from I-26 to Rockingham as well as US 17.  But funding issues have to "normalize" before any of that happens, which at present could take several fiscal cycles, so those looking for near-term action will likely be disappointed. 

RoadPelican

An Interstate to the Outer Banks would be a good idea, go from Chesapeake/Moyock on down the US 158 corridor to the Wright Memorial Bridge, a 70 MPH would certainly speed up the trip from OBX to the Hampton Roads Metro area.  Most of US 158 is only 55 MPH, with a few 35-45 MPH zones mixed in.

You could easily get the drivetime down to 45 minutes if US 158 was a 70 MPH freeway.

I would rather spend money on this idea, then the Mid-Currituck bridge, I understand that the north OBX needs another access point but a 2 lane bridge won't cut it in my opinion, it needs to 4 lanes.

But the number one priority for the OBX area needs to be getting the last 2 lane stretch of US 64 widened.

sprjus4

#1568
Quote from: RoadPelican on June 13, 2020, 08:54:47 AM
An Interstate to the Outer Banks would be a good idea, go from Chesapeake/Moyock on down the US 158 corridor to the Wright Memorial Bridge, a 70 MPH would certainly speed up the trip from OBX to the Hampton Roads Metro area.  Most of US 158 is only 55 MPH, with a few 35-45 MPH zones mixed in.

You could easily get the drivetime down to 45 minutes if US 158 was a 70 MPH freeway.
A 16 mile long 70 mph freeway bypass has been proposed multiple times officially from the Virginia state line to the US-158 / NC-168 junction to go around Moyock and northern Currituck County, though would still leave 25 miles of 5-lane arterial highway to the bridge. If that were to conceptually be a freeway, it would likely involve upgrading on existing location with frontage roads, overpasses, interchanges, etc.

Interim, I think the bypass should be constructed, then widen US-158 south of there to a 60 mph divided highway (46 foot median) with provisions for an eventual freeway upgrade by later adding frontage roads, overpasses, and interchanges where needed.

The northern section near Moyock can certainly get heavy traffic wise with traffic lights, 45 mph speed limits, etc.

The trickiest part to upgrade would likely be the 2 mile arterial segment in Virginia south of the Expressway, because of a likely high cost, little local interest, little statewide significance, higher priorities locally, etc. all that would have to compete for funding. They were smart enough to at least construct most of the Expressway as new location freeway (which needs to be increased to 65 mph) vs. widening Battlefield Blvd to a non-limited-access divided highway as originally proposed.

Additionally, the southern segments from Grandy to the bridge also would have a decent amount of right of way impacts and a narrow corridor to traverse with little options for any sort of bypass. That would be another tricky area to tackle.

I'm supportive of both completing I-87 to the southwest to handle regional connectivity by completing a gap in the interstate system, and a freeway along the NC-168 / US-158 corridor to handle high traffic volumes.

LM117

As someone else mentioned in the main NC thread, NCDOT had applied for an INFRA grant from USDOT for the whole corridor back in February...

https://connect.ncdot.gov/resources/INFRA2020-I87/Documents/Narrative%20I-87%20NCDOT.pdf

...but it wasn't included in the recent list of INFRA grant awards. No dice.

https://www.transportation.gov/buildamerica/sites/buildamerica.dot.gov/files/2020-06/INFRA%202020%20Fact%20Sheet_0.pdf
“I don’t know whether to wind my ass or scratch my watch!” - Jim Cornette

sprjus4

#1570
Quote from: LM117 on June 22, 2020, 09:15:11 PM
As someone else mentioned in the main NC thread, NCDOT had applied for an INFRA grant from USDOT for the whole corridor back in February...

https://connect.ncdot.gov/resources/INFRA2020-I87/Documents/Narrative%20I-87%20NCDOT.pdf

...but it wasn't included in the recent list of INFRA grant awards. No dice.

https://www.transportation.gov/buildamerica/sites/buildamerica.dot.gov/files/2020-06/INFRA%202020%20Fact%20Sheet_0.pdf
It appears major components included additional funding to accelerate two interchanges near Hertford and US-64 upgrades. If it was funded, US-64 would be upgraded to interstate standards between Raleigh and Williamston, US-64 would be widened to 6 lanes from US-64 Business to US-264, and two interchanges near Hertford would be constructed near 2025, which would also allow I-87 signage to be posted out to Williamston. All of these projects are currently planned, though would not be constructed until at least 2028.

One thing I'm curious about is why there's a large push to upgrade US-64 - an existing freeway - to interstate standards, rather than upgrade US-17 - which is not a freeway - first. Either way, if this INFRA grant could get funded in the future, it would help to significantly accelerate the progress of the corridor. In the meantime, it appeared this year US-74 was a larger priority in North Carolina - still only $25 million - of the limited funding being competed for nationwide. I agree with this as it completes a small gap in what would rather be a full freeway from Raleigh to Asheville, pending completion of the Shelby Bypass.

If a larger infrastructure bill is signed into law by the end of this year by the current administration, more funding may be available in the future to help fund projects of these types, larger and more grant money distributed, etc.

This project will likely be requested annually until finally funded.

sprjus4


Finrod

Quote from: sprjus4 on June 22, 2020, 09:44:29 PM
One thing I'm curious about is why there's a large push to upgrade US-64 - an existing freeway - to interstate standards, rather than upgrade US-17 - which is not a freeway - first.

My guess is that North Carolina thinks it'll be easier to get funding for the US 17 part if they can point to the US 64 part that has the I-87 shields and say "with this money we can get you on I-87 too".
Internet member since 1987.

Hate speech is a nonsense concept; the truth is hate speech to those that hate the truth.

People who use their free speech to try to silence others' free speech are dangerous fools.

LM117

Quote from: Finrod on June 23, 2020, 10:24:36 AM
Quote from: sprjus4 on June 22, 2020, 09:44:29 PM
One thing I'm curious about is why there's a large push to upgrade US-64 - an existing freeway - to interstate standards, rather than upgrade US-17 - which is not a freeway - first.

My guess is that North Carolina thinks it'll be easier to get funding for the US 17 part if they can point to the US 64 part that has the I-87 shields and say "with this money we can get you on I-87 too".

My money is on the Regional Transportation Alliance in Raleigh. They've been pushing heavily for an interstate connection to I-95, at least for the short term. The sooner Raleigh gets it's interstate link to I-95, the sooner the marketing can begin.
“I don’t know whether to wind my ass or scratch my watch!” - Jim Cornette

Dirt Roads

Moved from the I-587 thread:
Quote from: sprjus4 on October 01, 2020, 12:07:45 AM
I-87 fits within the grid for a north-south route.
Quote from: sparker on October 01, 2020, 02:42:40 AM
But.  It.  Isn't. A. North. South. Route., SCOURN and NCDOT notwithstanding.  <rant snipped>

I understand the argument here, but there is a big problem with our national definition of "route". 

We have one problem that FHWA has overly strict standards for the Interstate Highway System, and another problem that AASHTO controls a political game to approve route numbers (which apparently NCDOT is gaining more political weight).  But there is also a local component, ranging from NIMBY to land development to traffic congestion.  One obvious local issue that drive corridor development in North Carolina is connectivity to the State Legislative Complex in Raleigh (many other states spend highway dollars for this purpose, it just seems like North Carolina has a inordinate number of limited access roads spurring out from Raleigh in all directions).  There is also the hidden impact of shorter overlapping transportation corridors.  Quite frankly, the current role of the Interstate Highway System does not adequately address the most important transportation needs (and you could make the argument that it is not supposed to).

North-South argument:  It is my understanding that NCDOT wanted this "route" to start at Sanford, which AASHTO wisely judged to not be significant enough to warrant a 2DI.  In reality, this is part of a much longer transportation corridor that connects Columbia SC to Raleigh to the Tidewater area, one that I have utilized on many occasion (more than 30 years ago).  It doesn't get much usage (and likewise, not so much development) because the transportation corridor has many sections of slower two-lane roads comprised of several generally parallel routes.  Logically, this transportation corridor starts further west along I-20 (but I doubt there is any significant traffic).

East-West argument:  If North Carolina really wanted a 2DI route to Sanford and beyond, NCDOT could have made a more logical proposal to have the route start at Charlotte and go around Rockingham and through the Sandhills.  (Break loose all of the Charlotte to Wilmington comments).  But since economic development was the primary issue for I-87, it certainly made financial sense for NCDOT to focus on a much shorter corridor between I-95 and Suffolk.  So we get the north-south route designation that North Carolina originally wanted over the initial build east-west corridor that NCDOT could afford.  But if the freeway never gets extended beyond the Sandhills, the north-south number is wasted on this east-west segment.






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