Treasury announces woman to replace Hamilton on $10 bill

[bugo]

History #2 - Sacagawea on a coin is silly for multiple reasons.  For one thing, no painting or even description of her exists.  But mainly, she was not a citizen.  Applying modern concepts, she was a Shoshone, a people not yet a part of any European or Euro-American concept.  Her baby (also on the coin) would theoretically be a British subject.  The whole idea that  Europeans and Euro-Americans could "sell" and "purchase" Louisiana from one another and that this somehow made this place part of the USA is historically and politically simplistic.  The region, like all parts of the USA became as such by acts of settlers and such, and not purchases of land by people who had no idea what the place even looked like.

They should have used a more attractive woman for the Sac dollar. As I already said, I live in the former Indian Territory and there are some beautiful Native Americans that would have made far better subjects. From what I understand, the model they used wasn't even from the same tribe that Sac was in.

[bugo]

You wrote a whole lot here, but yet you never backed up your opening statement.  Going back to line #1:

I disagree with changing the $10 bill. For one thing, Alex Hamilton deserves to be on the $10

Why?

It is my opinion. Since when do you have to prove your opinion is correct? It's not a fact. If somebody had a better answer I might change my stance. I'm stubborn, but I'm open to changing my mind.

[DTComposer]

If we're trying to pick a handful of "iconic" American musical figures, then for all their brilliance, Hendrix, Morrison and Cline's careers were all too short (and Hendrix and Morrison probably too tainted by drug use to pass muster. So was Elvis, but his icon and career transcends that while Hendrix and Morrison's careers are - fairly or not - defined by it.). Before you get there, you'd need Duke Ellington or Louis Armstrong; Gershwin; Irving Berlin; Stephen Foster; Aaron Copland; Miles Davis; etc.
From a listening standpoint I'd rather have Hendrix or the Doors, but from a iconography standpoint the Beach Boys or Bruce Springsteen probably rank higher.

I forgot to mention the father of the blues, Robert Johnson. He wasn't the first bluesman but he was the most important.

As far as being iconic, I think Hendrix and Morrison are more iconic than the Beach Boys and Springsteen. If you're going to put Springsteen on it you might as well put Billy Joel on it.

Yeah, it starts to get subjective really fast. As I said, I'd listen to Hendrix and the Doors over the others any day of the week, but in terms of long-lasting cultural impact and representation of something uniquely and/or stereotypically "American," I think the Beach Boys would go first. Note that this is not necessarily a judgement on their musical talent nor an opinion on whether their music is "good."

The Beach Boys, as a representation of their sound and time, are head and shoulders above any of their contemporaries. Hendrix and Morrison, while arguably at the top of their heap, have much more competition, and the psychedelic/hard rock that they excelled at was being done just as well in England as in America.

My inclusion of Springsteen (who honestly I don't care all that much for) was from the concept that many of his people look at his song lyrics as representations of the American spirit and condition (both positive and negative).

Don't know why I didn't think of it (again, don't care for much of his music), but Michael Jackson is certainly one of the most iconic entertainers of the last 50 years, but again, too much external baggage to get onto currency.

[lordsutch]

FWIW, I don't think the dollar coin has (and did) fail because it was inherently unpopular; it failed largely because of bureaucratic politics. If the paper dollar had been withdrawn in the US, like the equivalent paper currency units were withdrawn in other countries, people would have adjusted, just as we've adjusted to thousands of other changes that a few people disliked at the time: glass bottles of soda giving way mostly to cans and plastic, self-checkouts, self-serve gas stations (except NJ and OR), etc. Besides which, I believe the mint figured out (or was told by the Canadians) a way to stop the golden coins from appearing tarnished in circulation and has been using it for several years now.

[Desert Man]

Was there a movement to remove Andrew Jackson from the $20 bill. The 7th president of the US (1829-37), he wasn't a good guy: he authorized the removal of almost every American Indian from east of the Mississippi to the Indian territories of the Great Plains (now the state of Oklahoma), which is considered "ethnic cleansing" by today's standards in international law. I thought there would be a woman on the $20 bill to replace Jackson's image. 

[DTComposer]

Was there a movement to remove Andrew Jackson from the $20 bill. The 7th president of the US (1829-37), he wasn't a good guy: he authorized the removal of almost every American Indian from east of the Mississippi to the Indian territories of the Great Plains (now the state of Oklahoma), which is considered "ethnic cleansing" by today's standards in international law. I thought there would be a woman on the $20 bill to replace Jackson's image. 

There is recently (and seemingly coincidentally) http://www.womenon20s.org/

[Desert Man]

Was there a movement to remove Andrew Jackson from the $20 bill. The 7th president of the US (1829-37), he wasn't a good guy: he authorized the removal of almost every American Indian from east of the Mississippi to the Indian territories of the Great Plains (now the state of Oklahoma), which is considered "ethnic cleansing" by today's standards in international law. I thought there would be a woman on the $20 bill to replace Jackson's image. 

There is recently (and seemingly coincidentally) http://www.womenon20s.org/

Thanx for the link, DT. :-) It appears Harriet Tubman will be on a future $20 bill under approval of the US Dept. of treasury, although a contest poll places Rosa Parks second place. We like to have a woman and an African-American featured on our nation's money. George Washington is on our quarters and dollar bills, while Abraham Lincoln is on our pennies (why do we still have them?) and $5 bills. Replacing them on one of our currency pieces isn't removing them from history, we're just including other important US historical figures, esp. women and minorities.

[Scott5114]

^The poll run by that site is not official and the Treasury has not approved its results. However, it was the impetus for the change on the $10; the Treasury was planning on changing the $10 next anyway, so they figured they may as well implement the woman-on-currency change at the same time as that scheduled redesign rather than waiting for the $20 redesign.

It will be interesting to see if the Treasury continues on this plan if the White House switches parties in 2016. Even if there is political will to cancel it, the process of drawing up the images, engraving the plates, etc. might be well underway and it might be too late to cancel it by then.

[corco]

And, frankly, the backlash from cancelling a fairly benign PC move would be far greater than any benefit. I don't think the next president would easily be able to get away with undoing this.

I'm not sure whether or not I'm in favor of this, but I totally get the logic behind Obama making the announcement now from a "now it has to happen!" standpoint. He has more than enough time to announce the person who will be on the bill and get momentum going before he leaves office.

[SteveG1988]

I vote for Eleanor Roosevelt for the 10. Her husband is on the 10 cent coin, having her on the 10 dollar would be fitting. She was a civil rights supporter, and was the first active first lady, probably one of the most active.

[corco]

She'd be my pick too - she was an active political force, served her country in the UN, and used her brains and influence for good. I think, if the objective is to promote women through this, picking a relatively modern woman that young girls can aspire to is probably better, and Roosevelt fits that description better than Tubman.

Harriet Tubman, while amazing, is almost more of a legend at this point than a person anybody in this country can really relate to or understand. I wouldn't oppose her being the choice, but I wonder if having her on a coin would actually inspire today's women. Maybe bringing Harriet Tubman back into the national conversation through this process would do that, in which case that works.

What Rosa Parks did took a great amount of courage and bravery, but I just don't know that it rises to the level of being on money.

I am bummed to see Hamilton being bumped (or shared, whatever that means) from the $10, because he deserves to be on a bill far moreso than Jackson or Grant. I'd hope we one day see Ike on a bill- maybe he could replace Grant someday on the $50.

[Thing 342]

I'd like to see James Madison or James K Polk on some form of currency. I'd argue that Polk (who was responsible for acquiring most of the Western third of the US) and Madison are much more deserving of being on currency than Jackson (who was the architect of the Trail of Tears and the originator of the Spoils system, and whose presidency was so divisive that it was the foundation of the modern party system) and Grant (whose successes in the Civil War were modest compared to his incompetence and corruption as president)

[oscar]

I am bummed to see Hamilton being bumped (or shared, whatever that means) from the $10, because he deserves to be on a bill far moreso than Jackson or Grant. I'd hope we one day see Ike on a bill- maybe he could replace Grant someday on the $50.

I don't see how Hamilton remaining on the $10 bill in a diminished or "shared" role works. My hunch is that this is a face-saver not meant to be taken seriously. When it comes time to design the bill, the argument will be made that having two portraits on the bill doesn't work (creates too much visual clutter, for example), and so Hamilton will disappear entirely.

Hamilton could be moved over to either the $50 or (preferably) the $20 when those bills come up for their own redesigns. But he'd have to compete with MLK for one of those bills.

[lordsutch]

Easy enough to keep Hamilton on the $10 without cluttering things up; he can go on the back. They're going to redesign both sides, after all.

The Queen manages to fit on Bank of England notes along with other people, after all: she gets the front, the other folks go on the back.

As for the choice, picking Eleanor Roosevelt to me would be an obvious partisan gambit; someone like Harriet Tubman or Susan B. Anthony or Ida Wells at least wouldn't be obviously identifiable with the Democratic Party, particularly in an environment where Hillary Clinton is falling over herself to run both as a born-again New Dealer and as a feminist icon. Honestly if you were going to pick a presidential spouse on her independent merits, I'd choose Abigail Adams instead (who would also tie with the Hamilton theme).

[Duke87]

One reason the "golden" small dollars like the Sac, the Native American dollars, and the presidential series have been failures is because the coins don't age well at all. If you have a brand new one (I have a 2007-S Sac PF69 Ultra Cameo graded by NGC that is stunning) they are attractive coins but when they have been in circulation, even for a short time, the mint luster disappears and the coins just look ugly.

I honestly don't think that has anything to do with it. People will use dingy old quarters just as readily as new ones, to anyone who is not a coin collector, it's just money and what it looks like isn't really important beyond being able to identify it.

No, the reason dollar coins aren't getting used is because no one has any reason to use them. They offer no functional advantage to the average Joe over $1 bills, and indeed have a distinct disadvantage since bills are less bulky and easier to carry around than coins. No matter how it is designed, no $1 coin will ever see widespread use unless the $1 bill is discontinued.


As for the matter at hand I don't really care who is depicted on the bills in my wallet. Put random pictures of cats on them for all I care. It's just money and so long as it remains equally usable, meh.

[kkt]

There hasn't been an American president or serious contender who was anything like a new dealer since LBJ.

How about getting away from politicians -- Ella Fitzgerald, Georgia O'Keefe, or Sally Ride?

[roadman65]

There hasn't been an American president or serious contender who was anything like a new dealer since LBJ.

How about getting away from politicians -- Ella Fitzgerald, Georgia O'Keefe, or Sally Ride?

No matter who you put on it its political as we live in a politically correct world.  Even if you put Michael Jackson on the currency it would be politics.

[kkt]

There hasn't been an American president or serious contender who was anything like a new dealer since LBJ.

How about getting away from politicians -- Ella Fitzgerald, Georgia O'Keefe, or Sally Ride?

No matter who you put on it its political as we live in a politically correct world.  Even if you put Michael Jackson on the currency it would be politics.

Everything has political overtones, but you can avoid people who are primarily politicians...

[bugo]

I honestly don't think that has anything to do with it. People will use dingy old quarters just as readily as new ones, to anyone who is not a coin collector, it's just money and what it looks like isn't really important beyond being able to identify it.

How many severely corroded quarters have you seen lately? How many post-1964 (cupronickel) quarters have you seen that had significant wear? The old pre-1965 quarters tended to wear around the edges but the modern copper/nickel coins actually age a lot better than silver quarters did.

When I worked at a C-store, I would spot 1965 quarters nearly every day. Most of them were still in excellent condition. I don't know where all these grungy quarters are, but I've rarely ever seen any.

[roadman65]

There hasn't been an American president or serious contender who was anything like a new dealer since LBJ.

How about getting away from politicians -- Ella Fitzgerald, Georgia O'Keefe, or Sally Ride?

No matter who you put on it its political as we live in a politically correct world.  Even if you put Michael Jackson on the currency it would be politics.

Everything has political overtones, but you can avoid people who are primarily politicians...

Which is the average Joe.  Every time I sit at a bar stool some idiot will always talk about how great Clinton was, which may or may not be true, but that is another story.  However the way he stuck up for Clinton was like he was a big member of the Democratic Party who campaigned for the guy back in his tenor as President.  This man was no more than just the average male who works a regular job and holds no political office and when I said that all politicians are crooked he started ranting that Clinton was different from others like he was his brother or something.

Then you have some that defend others who visit local bar happy hours as get them loaded with beer and the garbage flies.

[jeffandnicole]

You wrote a whole lot here, but yet you never backed up your opening statement.  Going back to line #1:

I disagree with changing the $10 bill. For one thing, Alex Hamilton deserves to be on the $10

Why?

It is my opinion. Since when do you have to prove your opinion is correct? It's not a fact. If somebody had a better answer I might change my stance. I'm stubborn, but I'm open to changing my mind.

I never said your opinion was wrong.  In fact, I gave you the opportunity to back up your opinion, which you didn't do.  Several people have given reasons why a woman should be on the $10 bill.  You still haven't given a single reason why Hamilton deserves to stay on the it.

[oscar]

The debate continues, this time with former Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke strongly supporting leaving Hamilton on the $10, and instead bumping Jackson from the $20 (for a multitude of sins, including President Jackson's hatred of central bankers like Bernanke):

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp/2015/06/22/former-fed-chair-ben-bernanke-is-appalled-alexander-hamilton-is-coming-off-the-10-bill/

It is striking that, even in response to the original proposal to bump off Jackson in favor of Harriet Tubman, Jackson is not getting a lot of love in this debate.

[DTComposer]

FWIW, here's an idea on Alexander Hamilton's view on women (from the Wikipedia article on his wife):

In spring 1779, Alexander Hamilton asked his friend John Laurens to find him a wife in South Carolina:

She must be young–handsome (I lay most stress upon a good shape) Sensible (a little learning will do)–well bred. . . chaste and tender (I am an enthusiast in my notions of fidelity and fondness); of some good nature–a great deal of generosity (she must neither love money nor scolding, for I dislike equally a termagant and an economist)–In politics, I am indifferent what side she may be of–I think I have arguments that will safely convert her to mine–As to religion a moderate stock will satisfy me–She must believe in God and hate a saint. But as to fortune, the larger stock of that the better.

Of course, this was probably not out of the norm for the viewpoints of the time, but I thought it was interesting in light of his possibly getting bumped off the $10 bill for a woman.

[roadman]

There hasn't been an American president or serious contender who was anything like a new dealer since LBJ.

How about getting away from politicians -- Ella Fitzgerald, Georgia O'Keefe, or Sally Ride?

For that matter, how about getting away from putting any person's image on money.

[Scott5114]

It is striking that, even in response to the original proposal to bump off Jackson in favor of Harriet Tubman, Jackson is not getting a lot of love in this debate.

Jackson seemed like an admirable fellow in 1928 when he was put on the $20. These days, he's viewed a lot more dimly. It certainly doesn't help him that the Native American tribes actually have a voice these days (and some tribes are doing better for themselves now than they ever have).

I have to agree with Bernanke here. Hamilton is probably a better figure for our currency than Jackson. If they go ahead and bump Hamilton, I hope that the precedent allows Jackson to be bumped too, maybe in favor of Martin Luther King, Jr.

Or here's an idea: we've issued a savings bond with Albert Einstein on it, so the BEP has an engraving of him sitting around collecting dust somewhere...

There hasn't been an American president or serious contender who was anything like a new dealer since LBJ.

How about getting away from politicians -- Ella Fitzgerald, Georgia O'Keefe, or Sally Ride?

For that matter, how about getting away from putting any person's image on money.

It works for the euro, but the result is a little bland, in my opinion. Though I imagine nobody on here would argue with a series of bills with famous bridges of the United States on them!