News:

The AARoads Wiki is live! Come check it out!

Main Menu

Arizona

Started by Alps, March 04, 2015, 08:28:34 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

Tom958

#50
Quote from: roadfro on May 31, 2020, 01:52:05 PM
BTW: I don't think calling these "AASHTO beams" is the best terminology. AASHTO may have some minimum design standards for roadways, but I don't think they delve into the minutia of bridge design (particularly for what appear to be pre-cast concrete girders).

My understanding is that AASHTO indeed sponsors a range of standard designs for precast beams. I first learned about this in the early '80's from my girlfriend, who was working as a drafter for a well-known engineering company. The reason for doing so is obvious: it simplifies both design and procurement. it's a good thing that the replacement spans for the William T. Sherman Viaduct in Atlanta were AASHTO beams that could essentially be ordered from a catalog as opposed to being refabricated from an archived agency-specific design.

That said, I made a mistake in calling them AASHTO beams. When I first stumbled upon this, I couldn't pull up the archived Streetviews, and I assumed that the bridge was new, in which case the beams would likely have been AASHTO beams. I never found the bridgereports.com entry, so I eventually decided that it must've been built at the same time as the shortcut segment of I-40, in the mid '70's. AASHTO beams may or may not have been a thing at that point in history.

Also, the Streetview I posted was from 2011, showing the bridge in its finished state. The construction view is more current, from 2019

Quote from: Sonic99 on June 01, 2020, 06:37:22 AM
That construction shot looks like they did a complete deck replacement and replaced the side railing/walls. Which would explain the framework under the main span but not the sides.

Indeed. I discovered this while checking out I-40 across Arizona for a not-too-successful Facebook post. In doing so, I discovered mid '60's bridges that are on their third parapet.  :-o


ethanhopkin14

I am a Texas who loves the Grand Canyon State.  The first time I visited was in 2001, and I was blown away at how good the roads, still think they were the best I have seen outside my own state (Texans think we have excellent roads, which we do have some of the best, but I honestly don't think that's saying too much [you're the hottest waitress at Denys]).  I don't get to visit as much as I would like, so there are gaps between visits, but it does seem that each time I have visited Arizona, the road quality deteriorates with normal aging, almost like the first time I went to Arizona was after a recent state wide revamping of the infrastructure.  Almost like the roads now 20 years old.  Not bad, just old.  Was there a state wide revamping that happened around the turn of the century?

Sonic99

Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on July 14, 2020, 06:27:45 PM
I am a Texas who loves the Grand Canyon State.  The first time I visited was in 2001, and I was blown away at how good the roads, still think they were the best I have seen outside my own state (Texans think we have excellent roads, which we do have some of the best, but I honestly don't think that's saying too much [you're the hottest waitress at Denys]).  I don't get to visit as much as I would like, so there are gaps between visits, but it does seem that each time I have visited Arizona, the road quality deteriorates with normal aging, almost like the first time I went to Arizona was after a recent state wide revamping of the infrastructure.  Almost like the roads now 20 years old.  Not bad, just old.  Was there a state wide revamping that happened around the turn of the century?

The 90's through about 2006 saw an absolutely massive amount of overhaul and upgrade to a lot of the highways. The population was expanding significantly, so ADOT was constantly widening and reconstructing roads, building new roads, etc. For Phoenix metro, 1990 to 2002 saw all of the loop freeways go from a few very small sections to near-full completion except the 202 in the East Valley. There was a ton of work going all around the state to try to keep up with the growth.
If you used to draw freeways on your homework and got reprimanded by your Senior English teacher for doing so, you might be a road geek!

ethanhopkin14

Quote from: Sonic99 on July 15, 2020, 02:43:22 AM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on July 14, 2020, 06:27:45 PM
I am a Texas who loves the Grand Canyon State.  The first time I visited was in 2001, and I was blown away at how good the roads, still think they were the best I have seen outside my own state (Texans think we have excellent roads, which we do have some of the best, but I honestly don't think that's saying too much [you're the hottest waitress at Denys]).  I don't get to visit as much as I would like, so there are gaps between visits, but it does seem that each time I have visited Arizona, the road quality deteriorates with normal aging, almost like the first time I went to Arizona was after a recent state wide revamping of the infrastructure.  Almost like the roads now 20 years old.  Not bad, just old.  Was there a state wide revamping that happened around the turn of the century?

The 90's through about 2006 saw an absolutely massive amount of overhaul and upgrade to a lot of the highways. The population was expanding significantly, so ADOT was constantly widening and reconstructing roads, building new roads, etc. For Phoenix metro, 1990 to 2002 saw all of the loop freeways go from a few very small sections to near-full completion except the 202 in the East Valley. There was a ton of work going all around the state to try to keep up with the growth.

Makes sense.  I always thought it might have been new growth combined with the arrival of the Arizona Diamondbacks in 1998.  It's not unheard of for a major sporting event or new sports team to spawn a major infrastructure overhaul, as goofy as it sounds.  People will now come to see your new team, look at our fantastic roads.

Pink Jazz

#54
Going to the subject of dynamic message signs, ADOT's contract with Daktronics expires in November 2021.

I wonder if ADOT will give Skyline a second chance.  I know there was that issue of random disconnects from the network possibly due to a compatibility issue with the Cameleon control software, but perhaps Skyline might be planning a fix for the next bid.  Considering other states don't have the same issues with their Skyline DMS (including loyal customer CDOT), it was probably something inherent to ADOT's setup that was causing the issue.

I can see SES America making a bid as well considering they have done several retrofit projects for ADOT.  There is also Adaptive, although they might be a longshot.

In truth, ADOT should not let its DMS control software be a bottleneck, since ADOT's Cameleon control software currently doesn't support graphics nor colors, even though ADOT currently specifies color full matrix DMS for its newest installs.

Plutonic Panda

I swear there was a thread on the Broadway curve but I can't find it. Anyway a preferred contractor has been selected this project is moving forward.

https://www.ttnews.com/articles/arizona-dot-names-preferred-developer-i-10-project-phoenix-area

andy3175

Article on Phoenix Interstates from the Arizona Republic:

https://amp.azcentral.com/amp/3595374001

QuoteThe 1956 act created interstates 10 and 17 in metro Phoenix. Interstate 17 is a north-south highway connecting Phoenix to northern cities like Prescott and Flagstaff. I-10 is Phoenix's east-west interstate that bends south starting at 20th Street to connect Phoenix to Tucson.

In original proposed routes, federal highway planners wanted I-10 to intersect I-17 at Durango Street in south Phoenix. But Arizona officials, backed by Sen. Carl Hayden, argued for an alignment farther north, which would cross more populated areas and, they said, serve local traffic as well as cross-country travelers.

"I am pleased that the Bureau of Public Roads has consented to this change that will mean so much to Arizona, the City of Phoenix, and to the surrounding communities of Goodyear and Litchfield,"  Sen. Hayden said in 1965.

That northward shift would require I-10 to pass through predominantly white neighborhoods near downtown. Residents of the area revolted and spoke fiercely in opposition to the proposed path. 

The city listened, and in 1973, returned to voters with a new plan: a highway that reached 100 feet in the sky, called a helicoil. Again, voters organized in opposition. ...

In 1973, voters struck the helicoil design down.

By 1979, the city found success. What's commonly referred to today as "the Deck Park Tunnel,"  an underground highway beneath a grass park connecting the downtown neighborhoods, was accepted by voters. Construction began in 1983 and the Papago Freeway opened in 1990. ...

When infrastructure was routed through other neighborhoods, such as I-17 bisecting neighborhoods south of downtown Phoenix and I-10 demolishing neighborhoods along 20th street, the predominantly Black and Latino residents had no such sway.

In May 1963, an expanded portion of Interstate 17 that penetrated south Phoenix neighborhoods and bent east at Durango Street opened. The Durango Curve bordered the southwest edge of a historic Black neighborhood, referred to as the "west region"  in a City of Phoenix report documenting historic Black properties, and Duarte's barrio, La Sonorita.   ...

The area's lack of representation proved useful for highway planners when the designs of Interstate 10 through Roosevelt were in flux. Amid uncertainty with the future of the Papago Freeway and facing pressure to finish connecting Phoenix to Tucson, highway planners decided to build out I-17's Durango Curve.

The new portion would connect to I-10's Broadway Curve, the location at which I-10 becomes a north-south extending highway at 52nd street. It would be called the Maricopa Freeway. In 1971 it opened, cutting a second wound through south Phoenix. ...

"Interstate 17 was placed directly across Latino neighborhoods of South Phoenix paralleling the historic rail corridor,"  (a 2005 ASU study on chronic environmental inequities) said. "The resultant high levels of highway traffic contribute to substantial ambient air pollution in this zone today."
Regards,
Andy

www.aaroads.com

bing101

Rob Guy Road does a segment on how the state of Arizona planned and dealt with the politics of Phoenix area freeways.

Pink Jazz

#58
ADOT's contract with Daktronics expires in November of this year, an RFP should likely be out soon.

I just wonder if the bad blood between ADOT and Skyline still persists.  Apparently both refused to work with each other to try to get the dropout issues resolved, with ADOT instead choosing to retrofit their Skyline DMS with SES America's color panels and control boards.  Other states such as Colorado seem to be loyal Skyline customers and do not have the same issues.

ADOT seems to be a major fan of SES America, not just retrofitting the Skyline signs with color boards but the older Sylvia signs with amber LED panels as well.  I would not be surprised if they win the whole contract for brand new DMS this time around.  I think last time Daktronics mostly won by offering a lower price.

Bobby5280

#59
I don't know the quality differences between Daktronics, Skyline, Adaptive, etc. with overhead traffic message highway signs products. But I've worked full time in the sign industry for more years than I want to admit. In the general purpose LED-based signs category Daktronics is the clear leader.

It's one thing to buy an LED-based sign in terms of the up front price. But how often will the unit have to be serviced? How long will the various components last? The stuff from Dak often costs a bit more up front. However that higher up front cost is offset by superior reliability. Every service call can cost serious money. Total cost of ownership is a critical thing with these babies.

The company where I work has sold units from all sorts of manufacturers. The first variable message boards we sold were units from Time-O-Matic, who later changed their company name to Watchfire. Those old signs used 5 watt wedge-based incandescent lamps. Then everything started transitioning to LED in the late 1990's. We used to sell a lot of units from Adaptive Displays; their products weren't nearly as expensive as Watchfire's. Back in that day Daktronics pretty much only sold direct to end users; they had no dealer or maintenance programs with independent sign companies. Adaptive's were pretty solid at first but the company started cutting corners. Eventually we had crews out serving those signs all the time. We started shopping other brands. When Daktronics got serious about courting sign companies we bolted. Their Venus 1500 software blew away the software Adaptive was offering then. Our company isn't 100% total fanboys for Daktronics. If someone wants to buy a less costly unit from Optec, or another brand or even some "OEM" Chinese crap we'll sell it to them, install it and get it running. We let them know up front what to expect. Various LED-based signs are not all created equal.

I'm kind of interested in some of the LED signs that Samsung is now selling.

Pink Jazz

#60
Quote from: Bobby5280 on February 01, 2021, 09:45:57 PM
I don't know the quality differences between Daktronics, Skyline, Adaptive, etc. with overhead traffic message highway signs products. But I've worked full time in the sign industry for more years than I want to admit. In the general purpose LED-based signs category Daktronics is the clear leader.

It's one thing to buy an LED-based sign in terms of the up front price. But how often will the unit have to be serviced? How long will the various components last? The stuff from Dak often costs a bit more up front. However that higher up front cost is offset by superior reliability. Every service call can cost serious money. Total cost of ownership is a critical thing with these babies.

The company where I work has sold units from all sorts of manufacturers. The first variable message boards we sold were units from Time-O-Matic, who later changed their company name to Watchfire. Those old signs used 5 watt wedge-based incandescent lamps. Then everything started transitioning to LED in the late 1990's. We used to sell a lot of units from Adaptive Displays; their products weren't nearly as expensive as Watchfire's. Back in that day Daktronics pretty much only sold direct to end users; they had no dealer or maintenance programs with independent sign companies. Adaptive's were pretty solid at first but the company started cutting corners. Eventually we had crews out serving those signs all the time. We started shopping other brands. When Daktronics got serious about courting sign companies we bolted. Their Venus 1500 software blew away the software Adaptive was offering then. Our company isn't 100% total fanboys for Daktronics. If someone wants to buy a less costly unit from Optec, or another brand or even some "OEM" Chinese crap we'll sell it to them, install it and get it running. We let them know up front what to expect. Various LED-based signs are not all created equal.

I'm kind of interested in some of the LED signs that Samsung is now selling.

Interestingly in the last bid the bidders were Daktronics, Adaptive, and SES.  Daktronics was the low bidder which is why they won ADOT's contract.

BTW NMDOT is loyal to Adaptive that they don't even competitively bid contracts (even though they have used ADDCO and Skyline in the past and use Skyline's control software).  NMDOT prefers to have parts commonality. ADOT on the other hand prefers to competitively bid contracts.  One difference between Arizona and New Mexico is that New Mexico has one of the lowest gas taxes in the country, and maybe NMDOT felt that it would be more economical to stick with a single manufacturer.

Also, the next MUTCD plans on eliminating external branding from DMS, so it will be harder to tell the manufacturer of DMS (although ADOT's full color front access Daktronics DMS do not have external branding).

Bobby5280

Quote from: Pink JazzNMDOT prefers to have parts commonality.

Well, yeah, as often as I'm guessing they're out having to swap out bad driver boards and controllers it would be convenient to have a big pile of common spare parts. I just think it's better to have a product that doesn't involve as many service calls.

In the cases that we do have to change a bad board or something else it isn't difficult to get spare parts from Daktronics. You only start running into trouble if you're trying to service a LED display that's more than 10 years old. At that point the whole panel probably needs to be replaced anyway.

Pink Jazz

Quote from: Bobby5280 on February 02, 2021, 12:12:42 PM
Quote from: Pink JazzNMDOT prefers to have parts commonality.

Well, yeah, as often as I'm guessing they're out having to swap out bad driver boards and controllers it would be convenient to have a big pile of common spare parts. I just think it's better to have a product that doesn't involve as many service calls.

In the cases that we do have to change a bad board or something else it isn't difficult to get spare parts from Daktronics. You only start running into trouble if you're trying to service a LED display that's more than 10 years old. At that point the whole panel probably needs to be replaced anyway.


I noticed ADOT has replaced some of the older Daktronics character matrix amber LED displays with new full matrix, full color Daktronics LED displays on their Loop 101 Price Freeway and Pima Freeway widening projects.  This is despite the fact that both Daktronics and SES America offer retrofit kits for older DMS.

Bobby5280

Quote from: Pink JazzI noticed ADOT has replaced some of the older Daktronics character matrix amber LED displays with new full matrix, full color Daktronics LED displays on their Loop 101 Price Freeway and Pima Freeway widening projects.  This is despite the fact that both Daktronics and SES America offer retrofit kits for older DMS.

The older amber monochrome Daktronics Vanguard units are very limited on what they can display. Those old boards typically displayed text only, with three lines of copy and 18 characters per line (5x7 LEDs per character). That's very primitive.

The cost per pixel has come down quite a bit with LED signs. That makes it possible to install full color LED boards with reasonably tight pixel spacing, such as 20mm between pixel centers, without breaking the bank. At that level it's possible to depict graphical items like Interstate route shields and other kinds of MUTCD sign graphics or render text objects in Series Gothic or Clearview typefaces.

Kniwt

St. George News reports that another long project is about to start on I-15 near the Virgin River Gorge: a 2.5-year rehab of Bridge #1 (between Exits 8 and 9):
https://www.stgeorgeutah.com/news/archive/2021/02/03/mgk-adot-announces-new-round-of-i-15-bridge-work-near-littlefield/

QuoteThe $56 million project will replace the abutment foundations, piers and the bridge deck of Bridge No. 1. New pavement, pavement markings, guardrail and signage are also included in the project.

... Work on the bridges overall has been part of a major upgrade program on the highway bridges on I-15 stretching back to 2014. The bridges were originally constructed in the 1970s. When this section of highway was built, it was the most expensive rural interstate highway built per mile. It was completed in 1973 after a decade of construction.

... This work has included minor repairs and resurfacing of bridge decks on Bridge No. 2, Bridge No. 3 and Bridge No. 7, as well as an extensive rehabilitation of Bridge No. 6 that was completed in 2016.

... Work on Bridge No. 1 through the Littlefield-Beaver Dam area is expected to conclude by fall 2023.

ADOT project page, not recently updated: https://azdot.gov/node/14320

Great Lakes Roads

So, I hear that there are some rumors going around that I-17 will receive new exit numbers to be compliant with MUTCD. Is this true?

The Ghostbuster

Wikipedia has been updated to say Interstate 17's exit numbers now go from 0-147 instead of 194 to 341 (as they should have been numbered from the get-go). Has signage along 17 been updated to reflect the new exits numbers? If not, do they have a date planned for such a conversion?

ethanhopkin14

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on February 05, 2021, 12:39:27 PM
Wikipedia has been updated to say Interstate 17's exit numbers now go from 0-147 instead of 194 to 341 (as they should have been numbered from the get-go). Has signage along 17 been updated to reflect the new exits numbers? If not, do they have a date planned for such a conversion?

Any evidence?  Now up next for ADOT....I-19!

The Ghostbuster

I'd love it if Interstate 19 had its exits renumbered from kilometer-based to mileage-based, but I doubt that will happen since the locals seem to prefer the way the exit numbers (and signage) are currently numbered. As if converting to mileage-based exits and distances is like pulling teeth.

ethanhopkin14

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on February 05, 2021, 02:05:50 PM
I'd love it if Interstate 19 had its exits renumbered from kilometer-based to mileage-based, but I doubt that will happen since the locals seem to prefer the way the exit numbers (and signage) are currently numbered. As if converting to mileage-based exits and distances is like pulling teeth.

To me its the same thing as I-17.  If you are going to change one, why not change the other?  I am sure some businesses aren't going to like I-17 being renumbered.  Tough.  That's the way it goes and frankly I am getting annoyed at businesses having so much pull on what goes on on highways. 

Plus, I-19 is shorter than I-17 so it will be a less expensive project. 

Exit58

Leave I-19 alone. Convert everything else to metric!

In all serious leave I-19. I enjoy it as the weirdo that it is. But I-17 isn't the only highway like this. I was confused when I drove SR 347 and saw it mileposts in the hundreds at first until I realized oh yeah, ADOT's stupid N/S numbering scheme.  :pan:

ztonyg

Does the I-17 remembering also apply to Loop 303 (where 100 was arbitrarily added to each exit number)?

This seems like such a waste seeing as I-17 has been "incorrectly"  numbered for 50 years (and GPS / real time navigation options are commonplace now).

ethanhopkin14

Quote from: Exit58 on February 05, 2021, 06:27:59 PM
Leave I-19 alone. Convert everything else to metric!

In all serious leave I-19. I enjoy it as the weirdo that it is. But I-17 isn't the only highway like this. I was confused when I drove SR 347 and saw it mileposts in the hundreds at first until I realized oh yeah, ADOT's stupid N/S numbering scheme.  :pan:

Also SR-80.

ztonyg

Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on February 05, 2021, 02:01:24 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on February 05, 2021, 12:39:27 PM
Wikipedia has been updated to say Interstate 17's exit numbers now go from 0-147 instead of 194 to 341 (as they should have been numbered from the get-go). Has signage along 17 been updated to reflect the new exits numbers? If not, do they have a date planned for such a conversion?

Any evidence?  Now up next for ADOT....I-19!

I've driven both directions of I-17 between exit 194 and 211 (I-10 to Greenway Rd) and have seen no evidence of any exit renumbering. 

Zonie

Nor have I.  That Wikipedia line has no source material, nor is there a single news item about a renumbering.



Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.