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Interstate 40

Started by Max Rockatansky, March 29, 2021, 06:37:25 PM

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Scott5114

Quote from: pderocco on April 08, 2022, 02:23:33 AM
Are there any other really long unmultiplexed pieces of the old US-66? I've only driven it as far east as Holbrook, AZ.

About 200 miles of it in Oklahoma is State Highway 66. It's still maintained to the same standard as any other Oklahoma state highway, certainly no worse than US-77 or US-81 or any other US route in the state. Really the only thing you'd need to do to return it to active service as a US highway is swap the signs out.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef


skluth

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 08, 2022, 06:04:27 PM
Quote from: Alps on April 08, 2022, 05:51:52 PM
Quote from: skluth on April 08, 2022, 11:55:08 AM
Much of US 66 in Illinois closely parallels I-55 and can be easily followed from Dwight to Mount Olive. A bit of it is concurrent with I-55 but can also be driven on a frontage road through much of the state. US 66 was mostly four lanes before the interstate, so IDOT often just built two new lanes to one side of US 66 and one two-lane side of the old roadbed became a frontage road while the other side roadbed was upgraded to interstate standards. Several of the old pre-interstate US 66 bypasses of cities still exist, including Bloomington, Lincoln, Springfield, and Pontiac. Very little of it is signed with another route. Like the segments in California and Arizona, the Illinois segment attracts a lot of US 66 enthusiasts from overseas.
Not exactly true. US 66 was originally on IL 4 (historic routing thereof), which starts out quite a bit west of I-55 as it heads up from St. Louis. I'm not the best citation for where this went, but again, how original do you want to be?

And you really can't replicate the true original routing in Chicago given Adams/Jackson serve as one way couplets.  That's the reason why the Historic US Route 66 Begin sign is located in the wrong place.

There were several routings of the Historic US 66. The routing from Dwight to Mount Olive as essentially the routing when my family drove to St Louis from Wisconsin in 1967. Some was duplexed with I-55 but much was still only US 66. I'm sorry for not satisfying the need of some to find the absolute original routing of US 66 but the routing I mentioned is the post-WWII routing which is what most people know and can be seen on this 1950 Illinois highway map. It's still the Historic US 66 even if it's not the ABSOLUTE 100% ORIGINAL UNDISPUTED VERY FIRST VIRGINAL ROUTING OF HISTORIC US 66. Historic is not the same as original.

Max Rockatansky

#52
Quote from: skluth on April 09, 2022, 10:50:20 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 08, 2022, 06:04:27 PM
Quote from: Alps on April 08, 2022, 05:51:52 PM
Quote from: skluth on April 08, 2022, 11:55:08 AM
Much of US 66 in Illinois closely parallels I-55 and can be easily followed from Dwight to Mount Olive. A bit of it is concurrent with I-55 but can also be driven on a frontage road through much of the state. US 66 was mostly four lanes before the interstate, so IDOT often just built two new lanes to one side of US 66 and one two-lane side of the old roadbed became a frontage road while the other side roadbed was upgraded to interstate standards. Several of the old pre-interstate US 66 bypasses of cities still exist, including Bloomington, Lincoln, Springfield, and Pontiac. Very little of it is signed with another route. Like the segments in California and Arizona, the Illinois segment attracts a lot of US 66 enthusiasts from overseas.
Not exactly true. US 66 was originally on IL 4 (historic routing thereof), which starts out quite a bit west of I-55 as it heads up from St. Louis. I'm not the best citation for where this went, but again, how original do you want to be?

And you really can't replicate the true original routing in Chicago given Adams/Jackson serve as one way couplets.  That's the reason why the Historic US Route 66 Begin sign is located in the wrong place.

There were several routings of the Historic US 66. The routing from Dwight to Mount Olive as essentially the routing when my family drove to St Louis from Wisconsin in 1967. Some was duplexed with I-55 but much was still only US 66. I'm sorry for not satisfying the need of some to find the absolute original routing of US 66 but the routing I mentioned is the post-WWII routing which is what most people know and can be seen on this 1950 Illinois highway map. It's still the Historic US 66 even if it's not the ABSOLUTE 100% ORIGINAL UNDISPUTED VERY FIRST VIRGINAL ROUTING OF HISTORIC US 66. Historic is not the same as original.

Which brings me back to the question I posed above, what would then constitute the most "worthwhile"  US 66 alignments?  I would hesitate to advertise a single one as the "truest"  given that doesn't really paint an accurate story of the history of the highway.  Even though most of the early NOTR inherited US 66 routes are difficult and/or impossible to drive to me they have just as much historic merit as the 1930s realignments.  Likewise failing to acknowledge that some Interstate corridors were also part of US 66 would be doing a disservice to the history of the highway. 

Alps

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 09, 2022, 11:04:15 AM
Quote from: skluth on April 09, 2022, 10:50:20 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 08, 2022, 06:04:27 PM
Quote from: Alps on April 08, 2022, 05:51:52 PM
Quote from: skluth on April 08, 2022, 11:55:08 AM
Much of US 66 in Illinois closely parallels I-55 and can be easily followed from Dwight to Mount Olive. A bit of it is concurrent with I-55 but can also be driven on a frontage road through much of the state. US 66 was mostly four lanes before the interstate, so IDOT often just built two new lanes to one side of US 66 and one two-lane side of the old roadbed became a frontage road while the other side roadbed was upgraded to interstate standards. Several of the old pre-interstate US 66 bypasses of cities still exist, including Bloomington, Lincoln, Springfield, and Pontiac. Very little of it is signed with another route. Like the segments in California and Arizona, the Illinois segment attracts a lot of US 66 enthusiasts from overseas.
Not exactly true. US 66 was originally on IL 4 (historic routing thereof), which starts out quite a bit west of I-55 as it heads up from St. Louis. I'm not the best citation for where this went, but again, how original do you want to be?

And you really can't replicate the true original routing in Chicago given Adams/Jackson serve as one way couplets.  That's the reason why the Historic US Route 66 Begin sign is located in the wrong place.

There were several routings of the Historic US 66. The routing from Dwight to Mount Olive as essentially the routing when my family drove to St Louis from Wisconsin in 1967. Some was duplexed with I-55 but much was still only US 66. I'm sorry for not satisfying the need of some to find the absolute original routing of US 66 but the routing I mentioned is the post-WWII routing which is what most people know and can be seen on this 1950 Illinois highway map. It's still the Historic US 66 even if it's not the ABSOLUTE 100% ORIGINAL UNDISPUTED VERY FIRST VIRGINAL ROUTING OF HISTORIC US 66. Historic is not the same as original.

Which brings me back to the question I posed above, what would then constitute the most "worthwhile"  US 66 alignments?  I would hesitate to advertise a single one as the "truest"  given that doesn't really paint an accurate story of the history of the highway.  Even though most of the early NOTR inherited US 66 routes are difficult and/or impossible to drive to me they have just as much historic merit as the 1930s realignments.  Likewise failing to acknowledge that some Interstate corridors were also part of US 66 would be doing a disservice to the history of the highway. 
Well my point in Illinois relates to s very drivable original route. I would keep people continuous which is what a lot of the West tries to do. There are unmarked drivable through roads also (some with white centerlines!) but I would look for a combo of interstate, easy business routes and more complex. Missouri I believe does it right with different alignments marked with different years so you can choose your clinch, and then you could mark each route separately in parallel.

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: Alps on April 09, 2022, 12:41:06 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 09, 2022, 11:04:15 AM
Quote from: skluth on April 09, 2022, 10:50:20 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 08, 2022, 06:04:27 PM
Quote from: Alps on April 08, 2022, 05:51:52 PM
Quote from: skluth on April 08, 2022, 11:55:08 AM
Much of US 66 in Illinois closely parallels I-55 and can be easily followed from Dwight to Mount Olive. A bit of it is concurrent with I-55 but can also be driven on a frontage road through much of the state. US 66 was mostly four lanes before the interstate, so IDOT often just built two new lanes to one side of US 66 and one two-lane side of the old roadbed became a frontage road while the other side roadbed was upgraded to interstate standards. Several of the old pre-interstate US 66 bypasses of cities still exist, including Bloomington, Lincoln, Springfield, and Pontiac. Very little of it is signed with another route. Like the segments in California and Arizona, the Illinois segment attracts a lot of US 66 enthusiasts from overseas.
Not exactly true. US 66 was originally on IL 4 (historic routing thereof), which starts out quite a bit west of I-55 as it heads up from St. Louis. I'm not the best citation for where this went, but again, how original do you want to be?

And you really can't replicate the true original routing in Chicago given Adams/Jackson serve as one way couplets.  That's the reason why the Historic US Route 66 Begin sign is located in the wrong place.

There were several routings of the Historic US 66. The routing from Dwight to Mount Olive as essentially the routing when my family drove to St Louis from Wisconsin in 1967. Some was duplexed with I-55 but much was still only US 66. I'm sorry for not satisfying the need of some to find the absolute original routing of US 66 but the routing I mentioned is the post-WWII routing which is what most people know and can be seen on this 1950 Illinois highway map. It's still the Historic US 66 even if it's not the ABSOLUTE 100% ORIGINAL UNDISPUTED VERY FIRST VIRGINAL ROUTING OF HISTORIC US 66. Historic is not the same as original.

Which brings me back to the question I posed above, what would then constitute the most "worthwhile"  US 66 alignments?  I would hesitate to advertise a single one as the "truest"  given that doesn't really paint an accurate story of the history of the highway.  Even though most of the early NOTR inherited US 66 routes are difficult and/or impossible to drive to me they have just as much historic merit as the 1930s realignments.  Likewise failing to acknowledge that some Interstate corridors were also part of US 66 would be doing a disservice to the history of the highway. 
Well my point in Illinois relates to s very drivable original route. I would keep people continuous which is what a lot of the West tries to do. There are unmarked drivable through roads also (some with white centerlines!) but I would look for a combo of interstate, easy business routes and more complex. Missouri I believe does it right with different alignments marked with different years so you can choose your clinch, and then you could mark each route separately in parallel.

New Mexico has signed Historic Alignments of US 66 by vintage also if they can be traversed.  I also prefer this method of signing alignments when practical.

Mapmikey

Illinois signs three different alignments in places and IIRC you can drive most of old US 66 in Illinois without getting on an interstate.

West of Elk City OK old US 66 is pretty much intact until Alanreed TX.  Once in Texas the EB frontage road is old 66 except at McLean.  Plenty of concrete roadway remains on this Texas segment.

ilpt4u

There is a very short segment of Old US 66 in IL that is impassible due to an adjacent quarry blasting too close to the road and making it unstable. Following Old 66/Joliet Rd off of I-55 at I-294 toward Chicago, between East Ave and 55th St in Hodgkins/McCook has been closed for years and is fenced off to all traffic, even foot and bicycle.

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7852808,-87.8498495,15z/data=!3m1!1e3

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: ilpt4u on April 10, 2022, 10:39:23 AM
There is a very short segment of Old US 66 in IL that is impassible due to an adjacent quarry blasting too close to the road and making it unstable. Following Old 66/Joliet Rd off of I-55 at I-294 toward Chicago, between East Ave and 55th St in Hodgkins/McCook has been closed for years and is fenced off to all traffic, even foot and bicycle.

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7852808,-87.8498495,15z/data=!3m1!1e3

Roamin Rich did a video on it years ago:



Similarly La Bajada Hill in New Mexico really isn't something that can driven except by the off road crowd if they have tribal permission. 






Alps

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 10, 2022, 11:03:12 AM
Quote from: ilpt4u on April 10, 2022, 10:39:23 AM
There is a very short segment of Old US 66 in IL that is impassible due to an adjacent quarry blasting too close to the road and making it unstable. Following Old 66/Joliet Rd off of I-55 at I-294 toward Chicago, between East Ave and 55th St in Hodgkins/McCook has been closed for years and is fenced off to all traffic, even foot and bicycle.

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7852808,-87.8498495,15z/data=!3m1!1e3

Roamin Rich did a video on it years ago:



Similarly La Bajada Hill in New Mexico really isn't something that can driven except by the off road crowd if they have tribal permission. 






This is definitely getting off topic... and when I was in IL you COULD walk the route, slipping through an opening in the fence, at the peril of being seen.

dbz77

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 31, 2021, 09:22:41 PM
Quote from: kkt on March 31, 2021, 09:19:58 PM
I-40 taking over CA 58 to Bakersfield has a lot less to do in order to get it up to interstate standards.  But CA 99 has some boosters actively campaigning for it.  So it could go either way.  Caltrans and most of the legislature doesn't really care about interstate status that doesn't have any money attached to it.  I wouldn't look for either of them to happen this decade.

More so, aside from putting a real junction at CA 223 I don't see what added benefit Interstate standards nets CA 58.  99 (and really US 101) are where widenings and reconfigured interchanges are going to make an impact.  The Merced County segment of 99 is being worked on which really leaves the only big subpar gap as southern Tulare County.
One thing an extension of Interstate 40 westward to the present 58/99 junction in Bakersfield would be to create the second 2di multiplex in California. (The only existing 2di multiplex in the state is Golden State Freeway (5/10) between Santa Monica and San Bernardino Freeways.

Henry

Quote from: dbz77 on May 03, 2022, 04:01:33 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 31, 2021, 09:22:41 PM
Quote from: kkt on March 31, 2021, 09:19:58 PM
I-40 taking over CA 58 to Bakersfield has a lot less to do in order to get it up to interstate standards.  But CA 99 has some boosters actively campaigning for it.  So it could go either way.  Caltrans and most of the legislature doesn't really care about interstate status that doesn't have any money attached to it.  I wouldn't look for either of them to happen this decade.

More so, aside from putting a real junction at CA 223 I don't see what added benefit Interstate standards nets CA 58.  99 (and really US 101) are where widenings and reconfigured interchanges are going to make an impact.  The Merced County segment of 99 is being worked on which really leaves the only big subpar gap as southern Tulare County.
One thing an extension of Interstate 40 westward to the present 58/99 junction in Bakersfield would be to create the second 2di multiplex in California. (The only existing 2di multiplex in the state is Golden State Freeway (5/10) between Santa Monica and San Bernardino Freeways.
But why end it there? If you continue the Westside Parkway past I-7 (my preferred choice for the CA 99 upgrade, if it ever comes to be) and build it out to I-5, then you'd give I-40 a more proper ending.
Go Cubs Go! Go Cubs Go! Hey Chicago, what do you say? The Cubs are gonna win today!

Plutonic Panda

Realistically what's the chance Caltrans even considers extending I-40 to Bakersfield?

pderocco

I don't expect to see it in my lifetime. (I'm 69.)

As has been said, it's more important to upgrade the physical road, rather than renumber it, unless renumbering is accompanied by a big pot of money.

But there's another wrinkle that I see on the horizon, which may result in a widespread reduction in freeway expansion. If self-driving cars are perfected, then it will eventually be possible to run cars much closer to each other, and at higher speeds, which will dramatically increase the capacity of the existing roads. And we may see autonomous cars phased in, starting with freeways where the conditions are optimal, leaving the ability to navigate complicated surface roads until later.

Max Rockatansky

#63
^^^

The chances of CA 58 between I-15 and CA 14 hitting a capacity need for a six lane expansion are incredibly implausible. 

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on May 03, 2022, 09:46:04 PM
Realistically what's the chance Caltrans even considers extending I-40 to Bakersfield?

None, hasn't even been petitioned inclusion since 1968.  There is zero need for a full freeway west of Barstow to Bakersfield now that Kramer Junction and Hinkley have been bypassed.  A couple at-grade intersections in California City and narrow shoulders will likely never need upgrades.

Think about how busy US 101 is between Los Angeles and San Francisco.  That corridor never gets discussed for inclusion in these armchair Interstate discussions.  There are plenty of at-grade intersections on US 101 also that will never been closed off by full interchanges, nor really need to be.

74/171FAN

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 04, 2022, 12:44:13 AM
^^^

The chances of CA 58 between I-15 and CA 14 hitting a capacity need for a six lane expansion are incredibly implausible. 

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on May 03, 2022, 09:46:04 PM
Realistically what's the chance Caltrans even considers extending I-40 to Bakersfield?

None, hasn't even been petitioned inclusion since 1968.  There is zero need for a full freeway west of Barstow to Bakersfield now that Kramer Junction and Hinkley have been bypassed.  A couple at-grade intersections in California City and narrow shoulders will likely never need upgrades.

Think about how busy US 101 is between Los Angeles and San Francisco.  That corridor never gets discussed for inclusion in these armchair Interstate discussions.  There are plenty of at-grade intersections on US 101 also that will never been closed off by full interchanges, nor really need to be.

Sure I agree, but the idea of being realistic or not usually gets thrown out the window in Fictional Highways land.   :nod:  Personally, I have realized over time that the I-40 extension over CA 58 is the West Coast version of "extend I-76 east over NJ 42 and the Atlantic City Expressway" (which will most likely never happen either).
I am now a PennDOT employee.  My opinions/views do not necessarily reflect the opinions/views of PennDOT.

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: 74/171FAN on May 04, 2022, 06:30:50 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 04, 2022, 12:44:13 AM
^^^

The chances of CA 58 between I-15 and CA 14 hitting a capacity need for a six lane expansion are incredibly implausible. 

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on May 03, 2022, 09:46:04 PM
Realistically what's the chance Caltrans even considers extending I-40 to Bakersfield?

None, hasn't even been petitioned inclusion since 1968.  There is zero need for a full freeway west of Barstow to Bakersfield now that Kramer Junction and Hinkley have been bypassed.  A couple at-grade intersections in California City and narrow shoulders will likely never need upgrades.

Think about how busy US 101 is between Los Angeles and San Francisco.  That corridor never gets discussed for inclusion in these armchair Interstate discussions.  There are plenty of at-grade intersections on US 101 also that will never been closed off by full interchanges, nor really need to be.

Sure I agree, but the idea of being realistic or not usually gets thrown out the window in Fictional Highways land.   :nod:  Personally, I have realized over time that the I-40 extension over CA 58 is the West Coast version of "extend I-76 east over NJ 42 and the Atlantic City Expressway" (which will most likely never happen either).

Right, in the fictional frame of view it is an easy leap to make.  Somehow though I-40 to Bakersfield has become something that a lot of people think is a certainty (like the entire Freewayjim Facebook page) or is something that should actually happen due to current traffic patterns.

ClassicHasClass

All I want is climbing lanes for the Tehachapi grade to get those damn trucks to the side, and I'll be happy.

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: ClassicHasClass on May 05, 2022, 11:45:02 AM
All I want is climbing lanes for the Tehachapi grade to get those damn trucks to the side, and I'll be happy.

If that was ever built it would by proxy probably take care of the CA 223 and Bealville Road intersections by proxy.

michravera

Quote from: 74/171FAN on May 04, 2022, 06:30:50 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 04, 2022, 12:44:13 AM
^^^

The chances of CA 58 between I-15 and CA 14 hitting a capacity need for a six lane expansion are incredibly implausible. 

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on May 03, 2022, 09:46:04 PM
Realistically what's the chance Caltrans even considers extending I-40 to Bakersfield?

None, hasn't even been petitioned inclusion since 1968.  There is zero need for a full freeway west of Barstow to Bakersfield now that Kramer Junction and Hinkley have been bypassed.  A couple at-grade intersections in California City and narrow shoulders will likely never need upgrades.

Think about how busy US 101 is between Los Angeles and San Francisco.  That corridor never gets discussed for inclusion in these armchair Interstate discussions.  There are plenty of at-grade intersections on US 101 also that will never been closed off by full interchanges, nor really need to be.

Sure I agree, but the idea of being realistic or not usually gets thrown out the window in Fictional Highways land.   :nod:  Personally, I have realized over time that the I-40 extension over CA 58 is the West Coast version of "extend I-76 east over NJ 42 and the Atlantic City Expressway" (which will most likely never happen either).

Every time I travel US-101 south of Gilroy, I see at least one or two more left or U-turns closed and every time I go to San Luis Obispo, I see one more interchange being started. It looks like CASR-58 is basically "done" with the upgrades that would benefit US-101. Rather than "Interstate Standards", which are a laudable goal, why don't we think about "reasonable improvements that will benefit either safety or speed or convenience" (and often what helps one helps the others).

sprjus4

How busy do the desert portions of CA-58 west of Mojave get during peak weekends?

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: sprjus4 on May 05, 2022, 06:37:18 PM
How busy do the desert portions of CA-58 west of Mojave get during peak weekends?

It's not so much passenger traffic but rather freight which causes most of the issues over Tehachapi Pass.

brad2971

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 04, 2022, 12:44:13 AM
^^^

The chances of CA 58 between I-15 and CA 14 hitting a capacity need for a six lane expansion are incredibly implausible. 

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on May 03, 2022, 09:46:04 PM
Realistically what’s the chance Caltrans even considers extending I-40 to Bakersfield?

None, hasn’t even been petitioned inclusion since 1968.  There is zero need for a full freeway west of Barstow to Bakersfield now that Kramer Junction and Hinkley have been bypassed.  A couple at-grade intersections in California City and narrow shoulders will likely never need upgrades.

Think about how busy US 101 is between Los Angeles and San Francisco.  That corridor never gets discussed for inclusion in these armchair Interstate discussions.  There are plenty of at-grade intersections on US 101 also that will never been closed off by full interchanges, nor really need to be.

Again, the only way extending I-40 to Bakersfield or giving an Interstate designation to SR 99 is going to happen is if either Bakersfield, Kern County, or Kevin McCarthy insist on it being so.

kkt

Quote from: brad2971 on May 05, 2022, 06:55:46 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 04, 2022, 12:44:13 AM
^^^

The chances of CA 58 between I-15 and CA 14 hitting a capacity need for a six lane expansion are incredibly implausible. 

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on May 03, 2022, 09:46:04 PM
Realistically what's the chance Caltrans even considers extending I-40 to Bakersfield?

None, hasn't even been petitioned inclusion since 1968.  There is zero need for a full freeway west of Barstow to Bakersfield now that Kramer Junction and Hinkley have been bypassed.  A couple at-grade intersections in California City and narrow shoulders will likely never need upgrades.

Think about how busy US 101 is between Los Angeles and San Francisco.  That corridor never gets discussed for inclusion in these armchair Interstate discussions.  There are plenty of at-grade intersections on US 101 also that will never been closed off by full interchanges, nor really need to be.

Again, the only way extending I-40 to Bakersfield or giving an Interstate designation to SR 99 is going to happen is if either Bakersfield, Kern County, or Kevin McCarthy insist on it being so.

Could happen.  Or Congress could decide to start giving away money for Interstate improvements that isn't available for National Highway System non-interstate routes.

skluth

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 05, 2022, 06:40:20 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on May 05, 2022, 06:37:18 PM
How busy do the desert portions of CA-58 west of Mojave get during peak weekends?

It's not so much passenger traffic but rather freight which causes most of the issues over Tehachapi Pass.

That's what I've noticed the couple times I've driven it. One of the few places I've mostly driven in the left lane uphill which helped me avoid getting stuck behind passing trucks (a couple trucks waited for me to pass before passing themselves).

The AADT as of 2020 on CA 58 are all less than 20K between Mojave and Barstow and as low as 13K east of Kramer Jct. The truck AADTs are about a third the traffic along the entire corridor from Barstow to Bakersfield regardless of AADT. FWIW, the CA 58 AADTs west of Bakersfield are all under 6000 and and as low as 200 at the SLO/Kern County line.

sprjus4

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 05, 2022, 06:40:20 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on May 05, 2022, 06:37:18 PM
How busy do the desert portions of CA-58 west of Mojave get during peak weekends?

It's not so much passenger traffic but rather freight which causes most of the issues over Tehachapi Pass.
I meant to say east of Mojave, not west, that's my fault.

It seems from the above post, CA-58 isn't carrying any large volumes that would warrant an immediate need for full control of access at minor intersections. Not to say it shouldn't happen, but it certainly does not seem like a priority or pressing need.



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