Ontario's Highways

[AsphaltPlanet]

View looking towards Toronto overtop of the recently twinned QEW bridges that carry the highway overtop of the Credit River.  Both directions of traffic have been shifted onto the new span to allow the old bridge to be fully rehabilitated:


http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/QEW_images/QEW_DJI_0540_24x18.jpg

[SSR_317]

Last weekend, I noticed that many regional routes are signed with blue shields, which others are signed with white ones.  Why are some blue and others white?

I would say that in Ontario white is the norm for county/regional routes.

The only jurisdictions that do not conform to that standard (that I know of) are: Niagara Region (blue), Hamilton (blue), Peel Region (black and yellow), and Halton Region (green and yellow).

As to why that particular Niagara Region shield is white, I don't know. Perhaps it's the older standard? No idea.

You'd THINK that Hamilton would use black & yellow as an homage to their CFL team's colours (Go Ti-Cats!). I know they're having a rough season, but still.

[AsphaltPlanet]

Night view looking southerly along the 404 from Van Horne Avenue in North York taken last month:


https://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_404-406_images/404_cl_21_south_SB_Sep23_24x16.jpg

[AsphaltPlanet]

Photo looking easterly from Hespeler Road (Hwy 24) in Cambridge showing the progress to widen the 401.  Photo taken last weekend:


http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_cl_282_east_EB-t_Oct22-23_24x16.png

[Chris]

What is the typical light pole height on these wide sections of freeway around Toronto? 40 or 50 meters? Or even more?

[cbeach40]

What is the typical light pole height on these wide sections of freeway around Toronto? 40 or 50 meters? Or even more?

That basic design can be 25, 30, 35, 40, or 45 metres in height.

Checked the contract drawings, these particular ones are the 40 m variant.

[AsphaltPlanet]

Easterly view of the 401 and the 412 interchange from Lake Ridge Road in Whitby.  I've shot this interchange a bunch of time.  Despite the fact that the ramps aren't curvilinear (as they should be), it's still quite a photogenic interchange.


http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_cl_406_east_EB-ramp_Oct23_24x16.jpg

[dmuzika]

Interesting development today; as part of a larger new funding deal between the Province of Ontario and City of Toronto, the Gardiner Expressway and Don Valley Parkway will be uploaded to the province, https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/here-are-the-highlights-of-the-new-funding-deal-between-the-province-and-the-city-of-toronto-1.6662719. Sources are also indicating a similar deal with the City of Ottawa might be forthcoming and include uploading Regional Road 174 (former Highway 17) back to the province, although that deal has not been announced, https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/deal-between-ottawa-and-province-similar-to-toronto-likely-coming-sources-1.6662824.

It would be interesting to see what will happen with the announced deal with Toronto and the rumored deal with Ottawa in terms of highway designations. I'm guessing that if the 400-series highways were extended, DVP would become part of Highway 404 while the Gardiner Expressway would have some sort of association with Queen Elizabeth Way and/or unsigned Highway 451 - exit numbers for both (formerly) municipal expressways are already continuous with the respective 400-series highways.

As for the possible uploading of RR 174, it would be interesting to see how extensive that would be and what (if any) number would be used. For example, would an uploaded RR 174 only include the freeway section near Hwy 417, the entire section within Ottawa, or the entire former Hwy 17 section that includes Prescott and Russell County Road 17? Also, would an uploaded highway retain its Hwy 174 number, revert back to being Hwy 17 (pre-1998), or maybe be renumbered entirely? The local Liberal MPP introduced a bill to upload the entire route in 2021, https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/mpp-calls-on-ontario-to-take-over-responsibility-of-hwy-174-in-ottawa-s-east-end-1.5641034, but at this point it is still remains downloaded.

[Stephane Dumas]

It would be interesting to see what will happen with the announced deal with Toronto and the rumored deal with Ottawa in terms of highway designations. I'm guessing that if the 400-series highways were extended, DVP would become part of Highway 404 while the Gardiner Expressway would have some sort of association with Queen Elizabeth Way and/or unsigned Highway 451 - exit numbers for both (formerly) municipal expressways are already continuous with the respective 400-series highways.

That or they could bring back Hwy-2 from the dead for the Gardiner. 

It could be interesting to see if the E.C. Row Expressway in Windsor will be lucky as well?

[andrepoiy]

I think there perhaps might be a case for the 404 being extended down the DVP and the QEW being extended as well. But I suspect that the "local names" of DVP and Gardiner will stick.

I am excited for when all those imo ugly City of Toronto signs get replaced by proper MTO signs on both freeways and for (especially the DVP) to be redesigned to MTO standards.

For Ottawa though, I feel that it may be unlikely that RR-174 gets renumbered to 17, as that would again create another discontinuous segment. Perhaps it might just stay as 174?

[dmuzika]

I think there perhaps might be a case for the 404 being extended down the DVP and the QEW being extended as well. But I suspect that the "local names" of DVP and Gardiner will stick.

I am excited for when all those imo ugly City of Toronto signs get replaced by proper MTO signs on both freeways and for (especially the DVP) to be redesigned to MTO standards.

For Ottawa though, I feel that it may be unlikely that RR-174 gets renumbered to 17, as that would again create another discontinuous segment. Perhaps it might just stay as 174?

Right, in reality the routes would probably co-designated with the name & number (i.e. Hwy 404 / Don Valley Parkway) if highway numbers are extended. Being from Alberta, I'm very familiar with both the name and number on urban freeways (i.e. Hwy 2 / Deerfoot Trail), regardless of ownership.

I'm not as familiar with how things are done in Ontario, but how are provincial named/numbered freeways signed? Generally it seems like only the number is signed, even if there is a name. For example, it seems like in the case of Hwy 417 / Queensway, I don't think the name 'Queensway' is commonly signed in Ottawa.

[kernals12]

Hwy 404 of course is notoriously difficult to find

[andrepoiy]

I think there perhaps might be a case for the 404 being extended down the DVP and the QEW being extended as well. But I suspect that the "local names" of DVP and Gardiner will stick.

I am excited for when all those imo ugly City of Toronto signs get replaced by proper MTO signs on both freeways and for (especially the DVP) to be redesigned to MTO standards.

For Ottawa though, I feel that it may be unlikely that RR-174 gets renumbered to 17, as that would again create another discontinuous segment. Perhaps it might just stay as 174?

Right, in reality the routes would probably co-designated with the name & number (i.e. Hwy 404 / Don Valley Parkway) if highway numbers are extended. Being from Alberta, I'm very familiar with both the name and number on urban freeways (i.e. Hwy 2 / Deerfoot Trail), regardless of ownership.

I'm not as familiar with how things are done in Ontario, but how are provincial named/numbered freeways signed? Generally it seems like only the number is signed, even if there is a name. For example, it seems like in the case of Hwy 417 / Queensway, I don't think the name 'Queensway' is commonly signed in Ottawa.

I think the only provincial freeways that have a name in Ontario are Queensway (417 in Ottawa) and the Conestoga Parkway (7, 8, 85 in Waterloo Region). Both of which are never signed on MTO signs. (Not sure if they are on municipal signs).

[Alps]

Considering 451 is hidden on the QEW, I imagine whatever numbers are assigned should this come to fruition will be hidden as well.

[rickmastfan67]

Could we perhaps see the QEW extended over BOTH the Gardiner & DVP?  Would be better to have 1 continuous route there IMO.

That or a brand new 4xx number both both routes?  Perhaps 422?

[cbeach40]

The Queen Elizabeth Way does not have a secret designation, and as a placeholder in systems that only take numerical inputs 1 is used as a placeholder. 451 is available, and has even been recently considered for use elsewhere in the province.

Considering 451 is hidden on the QEW, I imagine whatever numbers are assigned should this come to fruition will be hidden as well.

The Gardiner and DVP names have been around for decades, the transition points are logical, and changing them will only create disruption. We *might* see a 404/DVP co-designation posted, but the Gardiner will likely remain unchanged.

Also worth noting, the DVP might not meet 400-series design standards and the Gardiner for sure doesn't.

That or they could bring back Hwy-2 from the dead for the Gardiner. 

It could be interesting to see if the E.C. Row Expressway in Windsor will be lucky as well?

A small portion of Hwy 2 is still alive near Gananoque      https://maps.app.goo.gl/1WFGSnWCF4soBPNX6

Per the second point, certainly every municipality will be asking the province to take on some of their roads.

I think the only provincial freeways that have a name in Ontario are Queensway (417 in Ottawa) and the Conestoga Parkway (7, 8, 85 in Waterloo Region). Both of which are never signed on MTO signs. (Not sure if they are on municipal signs).

Queensway and Conestoga Pkwy used to be signed on some municipal signage but today it's just the numerical guide signs. Many sections of provincial highway have memorial dedications on them (eg, Hwy 405 as General Brock Pwky, 403 as the Alexander Graham Bell Pkwy, etc). And the EC Row Expwy has a portion that's owned by MTO but signed with just the name.

[zzcarp]

The Gardiner and DVP names have been around for decades, the transition points are logical, and changing them will only create disruption. We *might* see a 404/DVP co-designation posted, but the Gardiner will likely remain unchanged.

Also worth noting, the DVP might not meet 400-series design standards and the Gardiner for sure doesn't.

Pre-downloading, the QEW extended another 6km east of Highway 427 to Lake Shore Drive/Highway 2. That could be resumed in theory with few design upgrades.

Regarding the 400-series design standards, how rigid is the MTO in enforcing these on pre-existing highways? Here in the states we have a lot of grandfathered Interstates that aren't up to 2023 standards, but AASHTO only gives a few waivers to new Interstate designations. Is that similar to the MTO's thought processes?

[cbeach40]

Regarding the 400-series design standards, how rigid is the MTO in enforcing these on pre-existing highways? Here in the states we have a lot of grandfathered Interstates that aren't up to 2023 standards, but AASHTO only gives a few waivers to new Interstate designations. Is that similar to the MTO's thought processes?

Short answer is pretty well the same logic

[AsphaltPlanet]

Photo of the 407 looking easterly from Pine Valley Drive.  New towers are popping up adjacent to the subway extension at Vaughan Metropolitan Centre:


http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407_cl_63_east_EB_Aug23_42x28.jpg

[Daniel Fiddler]

Now if only Ontario would get its act together and increase the speed limit to 120 or 130 km / h.

100 km / h is too slow.  Even 110 km / h on the few roads its on is.

[Stephane Dumas]

Now if only Ontario would get its act together and increase the speed limit to 120 or 130 km / h.

100 km / h is too slow.  Even 110 km / h on the few roads its on is.

The same could be said about Quebec, we're still at 100 km/h here as well.

[JREwing78]

Even worse, the 4-lane divided sections of Hwy 17 are posted for 90 km/h! That's absurdly slow, particularly when Michigan is posting many 2-lane highways for 65mph (105 km/h).

[Daniel Fiddler]

Now if only Ontario would get its act together and increase the speed limit to 120 or 130 km / h.

100 km / h is too slow.  Even 110 km / h on the few roads its on is.

The same could be said about Quebec, we're still at 100 km/h here as well.

Exactly!  PQ 20 could use an upgrade to 120 or 130 as well in its rural areas!

[dmuzika]

Now if only Ontario would get its act together and increase the speed limit to 120 or 130 km / h.

100 km / h is too slow.  Even 110 km / h on the few roads its on is.

Does the traffic flow generally follow the speed limit, or does it run higher during optimal conditions?

[Daniel Fiddler]

Now if only Ontario would get its act together and increase the speed limit to 120 or 130 km / h.

100 km / h is too slow.  Even 110 km / h on the few roads its on is.

Does the traffic flow generally follow the speed limit, or does it run higher during optimal conditions?

It's been 23 years since I have been to Canada, although I would imagine they drive around 75 - 85 mph like we do.

I doubt if our speed limits were set much higher speeds would change much, same for Canada.  Drivers drive what they are comfortable at.  They just want to drive what is safe and comfortable to them more legally.