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Author Topic: Forbes Avenue Pittsburgh bridge collapse  (Read 8565 times)

davewiecking

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Forbes Avenue Pittsburgh bridge collapse
« on: January 28, 2022, 08:15:02 AM »
« Last Edit: January 28, 2022, 11:28:06 PM by rickmastfan67 »
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bwana39

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Re: Forbes Rd Pittsburgh bridge collapse
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2022, 09:41:55 AM »
The ironies are many.

Biden is coming to Pittsburgh TODAY to discuss infrastructure.

It collapsed during a low traffic time period.

The bus only had a driver and two passengers.

The realquestion we should ask is WHY did it fail?
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DeaconG

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Re: Forbes Rd Pittsburgh bridge collapse
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2022, 09:56:54 AM »
Quote from: davewiecking on January 28, 2022, 08:15:02 AM
At about 6:50 AM today. https://www.post-gazette.com/local/city/2022/01/28/pittsburgh-bridge-collapse-forbes-braddock-avenue-point-breeze-squirrel-hill/stories/202201280075

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4395152,-79.8993553,401m/data=!3m1!1e3

You're the first posting that even bothered to name the bridge or the area, I spent 5 minutes on CNN trying to figure out where the hell it was-then said "never mind, AA Roads is on it" and you were on point!
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1995hoo

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Re: Forbes Rd Pittsburgh bridge collapse
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2022, 10:07:25 AM »
Quote from: DeaconG on January 28, 2022, 09:56:54 AM
Quote from: davewiecking on January 28, 2022, 08:15:02 AM
At about 6:50 AM today. https://www.post-gazette.com/local/city/2022/01/28/pittsburgh-bridge-collapse-forbes-braddock-avenue-point-breeze-squirrel-hill/stories/202201280075

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4395152,-79.8993553,401m/data=!3m1!1e3

You're the first posting that even bothered to name the bridge or the area, I spent 5 minutes on CNN trying to figure out where the hell it was-then said "never mind, AA Roads is on it" and you were on point!

Heh, I was getting annoyed at CNN for not saying anything more than "near Frick Park," so I looked at Google Maps, found the park, and turned on the traffic display. That made it pretty clear where it had to be. I wonder why they wouldn't say which street—desire not to cause spectators to congregate, maybe?
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jmacswimmer

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Re: Forbes Rd Pittsburgh bridge collapse
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2022, 10:18:35 AM »
Quote from: 1995hoo on January 28, 2022, 10:07:25 AM
Quote from: DeaconG on January 28, 2022, 09:56:54 AM
Quote from: davewiecking on January 28, 2022, 08:15:02 AM
At about 6:50 AM today. https://www.post-gazette.com/local/city/2022/01/28/pittsburgh-bridge-collapse-forbes-braddock-avenue-point-breeze-squirrel-hill/stories/202201280075

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4395152,-79.8993553,401m/data=!3m1!1e3

You're the first posting that even bothered to name the bridge or the area, I spent 5 minutes on CNN trying to figure out where the hell it was-then said "never mind, AA Roads is on it" and you were on point!

Heh, I was getting annoyed at CNN for not saying anything more than "near Frick Park," so I looked at Google Maps, found the park, and turned on the traffic display. That made it pretty clear where it had to be. I wonder why they wouldn't say which street—desire not to cause spectators to congregate, maybe?

I pinpointed it using the exact same method.

I also saw a tweet mentioning the area smelled like natural gas post-collapse, so yes they probably do want to keep as many people away as possible.

Besides Forbes Ave over the bridge itself, Google is indicating Braddock Ave is closed as well between PA 8 & I-376.

https://twitter.com/gbarnhisel/status/1487043510322802689?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
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Roadgeekteen

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Re: Forbes Rd Pittsburgh bridge collapse
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2022, 10:20:22 AM »
Perfect opportunity for Biden to hammer home the importance of fixing our infrastructure.
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kevinb1994

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Re: Forbes Rd Pittsburgh bridge collapse
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2022, 10:21:29 AM »
I did read that the gas line has been shut off. So that’s good news.
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bwana39

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Re: Forbes Rd Pittsburgh bridge collapse
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2022, 10:38:56 AM »
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on January 28, 2022, 10:20:22 AM
Perfect opportunity for Biden to hammer home the importance of fixing our infrastructure.


I agree totally. That said, places like Pennsylvania and Iowa who have historically neglected their infrastructure will have larger needs and may very well preempt the things places like the mid-south and southwest need.

The bridge that failed was just over 50 years old. In the scope of things, not that old.
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MASTERNC

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Re: Forbes Rd Pittsburgh bridge collapse
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2022, 10:45:01 AM »
GSV shows deterioration off the roadway on the sides.

Given this is one of many bridges that spans a deep gap below in Pittsburgh (the one over the Parkway East that was just replaced is one example), this will likely cause some alarm (as well as emergency inspections of similarly tall bridges).
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webny99

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Re: Forbes Rd Pittsburgh bridge collapse
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2022, 11:13:55 AM »
Wow, that's a pretty significant artery to/from Pittsburgh too. The trail underneath the bridge actually has Street View, shown here.

Here's a better (worse?) picture:
https://twitter.com/PghPublicSafety/status/1487060095590612995

And look at this, from over three years ago:
https://twitter.com/gpk320/status/1078885655634157569
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kernals12

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Re: Forbes Rd Pittsburgh bridge collapse
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2022, 11:35:46 AM »
This is probably a case of overuse of road salt.
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empirestate

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Re: Forbes Rd Pittsburgh bridge collapse
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2022, 11:47:33 AM »
This is very near my former home in Regent Square, so naturally I crossed this bridge many times. It did always feel a little bouncy, didn't it? Or am I just confirmationing that bias?

As to the vagueness of the reports (which frustrated me also), I've found that's pretty common just in general conversation. When I meet someone who says they're also from New York, it can be like pulling teeth to find out where exactly they're from. ("Oh, it's a small town, you probably never heard of it.") News-wise, you'll see similar things with the reporting of weather events and the like. I'm not sure it's the result of intentional obfuscation in most cases.

In any case, this will result in some very unpleasant detours. (Which color detour is designated for this eventuality?)  :hmm:
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1995hoo

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Re: Forbes Rd Pittsburgh bridge collapse
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2022, 11:50:13 AM »
Quote from: empirestate on January 28, 2022, 11:47:33 AM
....

As to the vagueness of the reports (which frustrated me also), I've found that's pretty common just in general conversation. When I meet someone who says they're also from New York, it can be like pulling teeth to find out where exactly they're from. ("Oh, it's a small town, you probably never heard of it.") News-wise, you'll see similar things with the reporting of weather events and the like. I'm not sure it's the result of intentional obfuscation in most cases.

....

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kevinb1994

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Re: Forbes Rd Pittsburgh bridge collapse
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2022, 11:53:12 AM »
Quote from: empirestate on January 28, 2022, 11:47:33 AM
In any case, this will result in some very unpleasant detours. (Which color detour is designated for this eventuality?)  :hmm:
I suppose that the Blue Route (not the one in SEPA) will see the largest use.
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formulanone

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Re: Forbes Rd Pittsburgh bridge collapse
« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2022, 12:09:19 PM »
I'm surprised a span that long and wide was rated for only 26 tons.

A close call all the way around.
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catch22

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Re: Forbes Rd Pittsburgh bridge collapse
« Reply #15 on: January 28, 2022, 12:53:41 PM »
GSV from the path underneath the bridge.  My wife and I were in Pittsburgh last September and crossed this bridge a couple of times.

https://goo.gl/maps/PTPrVKdvUEzWyAbr9
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davewiecking

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Re: Forbes Rd Pittsburgh bridge collapse
« Reply #16 on: January 28, 2022, 01:30:38 PM »
Quote from: DeaconG on January 28, 2022, 09:56:54 AM
Quote from: davewiecking on January 28, 2022, 08:15:02 AM
At about 6:50 AM today. https://www.post-gazette.com/local/city/2022/01/28/pittsburgh-bridge-collapse-forbes-braddock-avenue-point-breeze-squirrel-hill/stories/202201280075

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4395152,-79.8993553,401m/data=!3m1!1e3

You're the first posting that even bothered to name the bridge or the area, I spent 5 minutes on CNN trying to figure out where the hell it was-then said "never mind, AA Roads is on it" and you were on point!

I got a WaPo alert on my iPad that mentioned Forbes Road over a park, and as others have noted, opened up Google Maps and searched for a bridge over a park. The closed road (marked "until 2024") confirmed the location. Shocked at zero coverage on any of the network morning shows, but CNN had a report. Absolutely amazing nobody was seriously hurt. Snow delays had many people home that otherwise might have been out and about.

I've read that this bridge was rated poor; the rusted cross braces noted in the 3 year old tweet posted by webny99 probably didn't fix themselves.
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jeffandnicole

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Re: Forbes Rd Pittsburgh bridge collapse
« Reply #17 on: January 28, 2022, 02:02:37 PM »
Quote from: formulanone on January 28, 2022, 12:09:19 PM
I'm surprised a span that long and wide was rated for only 26 tons.

A close call all the way around.

Because of the condition underneath.  Maybe it's more surprising they still permitted vehicles up to 26 tons to drive on it.

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bwana39

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Re: Forbes Rd Pittsburgh bridge collapse
« Reply #18 on: January 28, 2022, 02:32:27 PM »
Quote from: catch22 on January 28, 2022, 12:53:41 PM
GSV from the path underneath the bridge.  My wife and I were in Pittsburgh last September and crossed this bridge a couple of times.

https://goo.gl/maps/PTPrVKdvUEzWyAbr9


Looking at the streetview, this bridge was pretty lightly built BEFORE the rust and other damage reduced the capacity even farther.  It appears to have been seriously underbuilt and heavily salted.
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tolbs17

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Re: Forbes Rd Pittsburgh bridge collapse
« Reply #19 on: January 28, 2022, 03:03:09 PM »
Fix ya bridges!

I-35W,

Florida pedestrian bridge,

And now this...
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kernals12

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Re: Forbes Rd Pittsburgh bridge collapse
« Reply #20 on: January 28, 2022, 03:20:50 PM »
Quote from: tolbs17 on January 28, 2022, 03:03:09 PM
Fix ya bridges!

I-35W,

Florida pedestrian bridge,

And now this...
I-35w was due to a design flaw
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Dirt Roads

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Re: Forbes Rd Pittsburgh bridge collapse
« Reply #21 on: January 28, 2022, 04:02:21 PM »
Quote from: MASTERNC on January 28, 2022, 10:45:01 AM
GSV shows deterioration off the roadway on the sides.

Given this is one of many bridges that spans a deep gap below in Pittsburgh (the one over the Parkway East that was just replaced is one example), this will likely cause some alarm (as well as emergency inspections of similarly tall bridges).

Indeed, as will the fact that the Frick Park bridge is relatively young (built in 1970).
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kalvado

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Re: Forbes Rd Pittsburgh bridge collapse
« Reply #22 on: January 28, 2022, 04:09:18 PM »
Quote from: kernals12 on January 28, 2022, 03:20:50 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on January 28, 2022, 03:03:09 PM
Fix ya bridges!

I-35W,

Florida pedestrian bridge,

And now this...
I-35w was due to a design flaw
It is fairly easy to write off things as "design flaw", especially if the thing (I-35 bridge in Minneapolis) was in use "just" 40 years and most people involved in construction are retired, if still alive.  It is a bit more involved though.

Quote
Major safety issues identified in this investigation include insufficient bridge design firm quality control procedures for designing bridges, and insufficient Federal and State procedures for reviewing and approving bridge design plans and calculations; lack of guidance for bridge owners with regard to the placement of construction loads on bridges during repair or maintenance activities; exclusion of gusset plates in bridge load rating guidance; lack of inspection guidance for conditions of gusset plate distortion; and inadequate use of technologies for accurately assessing the condition of gusset plates on deck truss bridges.

And regarding inspections...
Quote
Each of the fracture-critical inspection reports from 1994–2006 did note the presence of rust, corrosion, and section loss on gusset plates


Quote from: Dirt Roads on January 28, 2022, 04:02:21 PM
Quote from: MASTERNC on January 28, 2022, 10:45:01 AM
GSV shows deterioration off the roadway on the sides.

Given this is one of many bridges that spans a deep gap below in Pittsburgh (the one over the Parkway East that was just replaced is one example), this will likely cause some alarm (as well as emergency inspections of similarly tall bridges).

Indeed, as will the fact that the Frick Park bridge is relatively young (built in 1970).
That makes it 52 year young, and I thought that is more or less standard design lifetime...
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SectorZ

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Re: Forbes Rd Pittsburgh bridge collapse
« Reply #23 on: January 28, 2022, 04:34:06 PM »
Quote from: tolbs17 on January 28, 2022, 03:03:09 PM
Fix ya bridges!

Florida pedestrian bridge,

And now this...

The Florida bridge was an engineering failure, had nothing to do with fixing anything.
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LilianaUwU

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Re: Forbes Rd Pittsburgh bridge collapse
« Reply #24 on: January 28, 2022, 04:36:04 PM »
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