The problem of area codes

[1995hoo]

I don't think there is one answer to the issue kalvado raises because I don't think there is any one "standard" or "normal" practice in the US.

I usually pronounce each number individually, but that's hardly universal. For example, I frequently hear four-digit addresses read as two or three numbers–a lot of people will say 6625, for example, as "sixty-six twenty-five." If the address contains a zero, those people will read that as an "O"–"sixty-six-oh-nine." I would expect those people to say "1234" as "twelve thirty-four" in referring to an address. For ZIP Codes, more often I hear people pronounce the digits individually, but not always–parts of downtown DC have a 20005 ZIP Code and some people pronounce that (wrongly) as "two thousand five." (It's wrong because if it were a five-digit number it would be twenty thousand five.) I remember when I was a little kid my mom said our ZIP Code as "two two oh oh three" instead of "two two zero zero three."

I've heard some people say area codes as two numbers–410 in Maryland as "four ten" is annoyingly common, 321 in Florida as "three twenty-one" less so.

Phone numbers seem to vary. My first year of college I had the ideal roadgeek phone number for someone living in Charlottesville where the two main highways are US-29 and I-64–my phone number ended in "2964." I said those four digits as "two nine six four." My roommate always said it as "twenty-nine sixty-four." I've heard other people combine numbers that way and if they're giving me a number, I always repeat it back using single digits to make sure I got it right in case I mishear, say, "fifty" as "fifteen" (or vice versa).

[jeffandnicole]

I have two zeros in my phone number.  Yet, I'll say "Zero" for thr first, then "Oh" for the 2nd. Don't know why I do that. Always have.

[catch22]

From a message I posted a few years ago:

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In my long-ago days at the telephone company, we were taught to always say each number individually and distinctly, whether it be street addresses or telephone numbers.

555-2097 is pronounced in telco-speak as "five, five, five (pause) two, zero (NEVER the letter "O"), nine-un, (two syllables to make it distinct from five), seven."  I guess it stuck, since I still do that.  My five-digit house number has two consecutive zeros in the middle of it, and I always say "zero zero" and never "oh oh."

(The reason for never using "O" to mean "zero" is because the letter O on phone dials appears on the #6 button (or dial pull, if you're that old), and believe it or not that confused some folks.)

[hotdogPi]

I don't alter any digit pronunciations, but I do say "zero" rather than "oh".

However, I have had one person mishear my birthday (which I have to give often at the pharmacy) as the 27th instead of the 22nd, which I could have avoided by saying "twenty-two".

[kalvado]

From a message I posted a few years ago:

---

In my long-ago days at the telephone company, we were taught to always say each number individually and distinctly, whether it be street addresses or telephone numbers.

555-2097 is pronounced in telco-speak as "five, five, five (pause) two, zero (NEVER the letter "O"), nine-un, (two syllables to make it distinct from five), seven."  I guess it stuck, since I still do that.  My five-digit house number has two consecutive zeros in the middle of it, and I always say "zero zero" and never "oh oh."

(The reason for never using "O" to mean "zero" is because the letter O on phone dials appears on the #6 button (or dial pull, if you're that old), and believe it or not that confused some folks.)

"Niner" is also a standard in NATO phonetic alphabet
___
was there any allowance for "ten", "eleven", and "twelve"?  Those seem to be very distinct from everything else, no room for confusion.

[Big John]

From a message I posted a few years ago:

---

In my long-ago days at the telephone company, we were taught to always say each number individually and distinctly, whether it be street addresses or telephone numbers.

555-2097 is pronounced in telco-speak as "five, five, five (pause) two, zero (NEVER the letter "O"), nine-un, (two syllables to make it distinct from five), seven."  I guess it stuck, since I still do that.  My five-digit house number has two consecutive zeros in the middle of it, and I always say "zero zero" and never "oh oh."

(The reason for never using "O" to mean "zero" is because the letter O on phone dials appears on the #6 button (or dial pull, if you're that old), and believe it or not that confused some folks.)

"Niner" is also a standard in NATO phonetic alphabet
___
was there any allowance for "ten", "eleven", and "twelve"?  Those seem to be very distinct from everything else, no room for confusion.

Since there are no 10, 11, nor 12 buttons, I would not think so.

[kalvado]

From a message I posted a few years ago:

---

In my long-ago days at the telephone company, we were taught to always say each number individually and distinctly, whether it be street addresses or telephone numbers.

555-2097 is pronounced in telco-speak as "five, five, five (pause) two, zero (NEVER the letter "O"), nine-un, (two syllables to make it distinct from five), seven."  I guess it stuck, since I still do that.  My five-digit house number has two consecutive zeros in the middle of it, and I always say "zero zero" and never "oh oh."

(The reason for never using "O" to mean "zero" is because the letter O on phone dials appears on the #6 button (or dial pull, if you're that old), and believe it or not that confused some folks.)

"Niner" is also a standard in NATO phonetic alphabet
___
was there any allowance for "ten", "eleven", and "twelve"?  Those seem to be very distinct from everything else, no room for confusion.

Since there are no 10, 11, nor 12 buttons, I would not think so.

But there are definitely 10s and 12s in street addresses

[GaryV]

From a message I posted a few years ago:

---

In my long-ago days at the telephone company, we were taught to always say each number individually and distinctly, whether it be street addresses or telephone numbers.

555-2097 is pronounced in telco-speak as "five, five, five (pause) two, zero (NEVER the letter "O"), nine-un, (two syllables to make it distinct from five), seven."  I guess it stuck, since I still do that.  My five-digit house number has two consecutive zeros in the middle of it, and I always say "zero zero" and never "oh oh."

(The reason for never using "O" to mean "zero" is because the letter O on phone dials appears on the #6 button (or dial pull, if you're that old), and believe it or not that confused some folks.)

"Niner" is also a standard in NATO phonetic alphabet
___
was there any allowance for "ten", "eleven", and "twelve"?  Those seem to be very distinct from everything else, no room for confusion.

Since there are no 10, 11, nor 12 buttons, I would not think so.

But there are definitely 10s and 12s in street addresses

Which would be pronounced "one-zero" and "one-two" respectively.

That said, my phone number has 2 zeros, one at the end of the 3 numbers and one at the end of the 4 numbers. I pronounce my phone number as "five eighty /pause/ sixty-two sixty" (numbers changed to protect the innocent).

[1995hoo]

Regarding phone numbers, I recall when 911 rolled out as the standard emergency number there was a concerted effort to promote it as three digits instead of as "nine-eleven" because the authorities didn't want little kids getting confused by the lack of an "11" on the dial (or an "11" button).

[kphoger]

I remember when I was a little kid my mom said our ZIP Code as "two two oh oh three" instead of "two two zero zero three."

I'd probably say that as "two two double-oh three".

I have two zeros in my phone number.  Yet, I'll say "Zero" for thr first, then "Oh" for the 2nd. Don't know why I do that. Always have.

I used to work in a dispatch office where field techs would read serial numbers over the phone.  They were supposed to use a spelling alphabet for the letters in those serial numbers, and we preferred the NATO phonetic alphabet.  But a lot of techs used common police ones instead (David instead of Delta, etc).  And then some of them just made up whatever spelling alphabet seemed right to them at the time.  Two instances that stick out in my memory were when (on more than one occasion) someone tried to come up with something for Z on the spot, and the first word they thought of was ZERO.  Fail.  But another time was when a tech had a serial number with a double Y, and he read it over the phone as "YANKEE YELLOW".  That one took me about two seconds to parse, and by then I couldn't remember the next few digits after it.

But there are definitely 10s and 12s in street addresses

Which would be pronounced "one-zero" and "one-two" respectively.

That said, my phone number has 2 zeros, one at the end of the 3 numbers and one at the end of the 4 numbers. I pronounce my phone number as "five eighty /pause/ sixty-two sixty" (numbers changed to protect the innocent).

Five-digit house numbers are what interest me along these lines.  Let's take an imaginary street address of 14621 N. Birch St.

In a couple of places I've lived, street addresses were based on a numbered street grid.  So what makes most sense to me with that address is to think of it as "house number 21 north of the 146-hundred line".  So I try to say "one forty-six twenty-one".  In my mind it's "one forty-six / twenty-one".

But plenty of people would say "fourteen six twenty-one" instead.  This also makes sense to me if I'm not interpolating a numbered street grid into the number.  In a sense, they're treating the "fourteen" part as a throwaway, which leaves the more normal-sounding "six twenty-one" part as useful information.  That is to say, if you're anywhere near that part of Birch Street, all houses numbers are going to begin with 14 anyway, and all you really care about is the 6 (getting close) and the 21 (found the right house).

My wife's phone number has three consecutive x0 pairs.  To protect the innocent, let's pretend her number is 730-3090.  I used to say it out loud to people as "seven thirty thirty ninety".  But at least 50% of the time that would throw the person totally off.  So now I just say "seven three oh ... three oh nine oh" instead.  Much better success rate.

My own phone number, like yours, has two zeroes–one at the end of the string of three and one at the end of the string of four.  And I now say each digit individually, just as with my wife's.

[Road Hog]

I have a lot of Latino customers that I interface with on a regular basis. They give their phone numbers in twin digits, for example 3314 is always "thirty-three fourteen" and never "three three one four."

[kphoger]

I have a lot of Latino customers that I interface with on a regular basis. They give their phone numbers in twin digits, for example 3314 is always "thirty-three fourteen" and never "three three one four."

Yes:  in Mexico, phone numbers have long been written and spoken as groups of two digits.  Even now that most area codes are three digits, it's still not unheard-of to see billboards with phone numbers written as five groups of two.

[bing101]

Multi area code for one single city is pretty uncommon outside NANP. Outside NANP, telephone numbers will be adding one digit, instead of crazily introducing new area codes.
Multi area code makes people need to dial and say three more digits EVERY TIME you need to dial or say a number.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Area_codes_707_and_369
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Area_codes_415_and_628



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Area_codes_916_and_279
Also there's another thing multiple area codes via overlay is a recent thing to account newer phones. I remember area codes used to be split and it affects what neighborhoods you were in at the time.

[ran4sh]

It's not "recent", Atlanta has had overlay since the late 90s with 678, and arguably should have just adopted it earlier, in the mid 90s, with 770 (instead of making a 404/770 split roughly at I-285, which remains the only geographic area split in the whole Atlanta area code region (404, 770, 678, etc)

[geek11111]

It's not "recent", Atlanta has had overlay since the late 90s with 678, and arguably should have just adopted it earlier, in the mid 90s, with 770 (instead of making a 404/770 split roughly at I-285, which remains the only geographic area split in the whole Atlanta area code region (404, 770, 678, etc)

678 is the best time to upgrade to 8-digit under 404.

[kphoger]

It's not "recent", Atlanta has had overlay since the late 90s with 678, and arguably should have just adopted it earlier, in the mid 90s, with 770 (instead of making a 404/770 split roughly at I-285, which remains the only geographic area split in the whole Atlanta area code region (404, 770, 678, etc)

The first one in the NANP was 917, which was laid over New York City's 212 and 718 areas in February 1992.

[1995hoo]

It's not "recent", Atlanta has had overlay since the late 90s with 678, and arguably should have just adopted it earlier, in the mid 90s, with 770 (instead of making a 404/770 split roughly at I-285, which remains the only geographic area split in the whole Atlanta area code region (404, 770, 678, etc)

The first one in the NANP was 917, which was laid over New York City's 212 and 718 areas in February 1992.

I suppose I could try to look this up, but your comment makes me wonder whether any other overlay area codes cover multiple other area codes. That is, most overlay codes of which I'm aware are coterminous with another code (571 matches 703's territory, for example).

[kphoger]

I suppose I could try to look this up, but your comment makes me wonder whether any other overlay area codes cover multiple other area codes.

Someone, correct me if I'm wrong about any of these or missed any:

236
368
470
587
672
678
778
825
872
878
917

[Scott5114]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Area_codes_707_and_369
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Area_codes_415_and_628
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Area_codes_916_and_279

As an aside, enjoy the Wikipedia area code articles while you can, since area codes are not notable.

[kphoger]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Area_codes_707_and_369
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Area_codes_415_and_628
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Area_codes_916_and_279

As an aside, enjoy the Wikipedia area code articles while you can, since area codes are not notable.

Thank you for providing that link, and therewith some welcome entertainment.

[DTComposer]

Huh. I didn't know notability was such an issue - part of the reason I like Wikipedia is finding well-researched, well-written articles on relatively small/obscure topics.

For example, I saw a TikTok today with a clip from a TV show (relatively popular, but ended nine years ago), and I couldn't remember the season arc. Within moments, I have separate articles for the show itself, the season, the episode itself, and the principal characters for the show. I get my question answered, remind myself of a couple of other things, read a couple of interesting factoids I didn't know about. You could argue that is what fan Wikis should be (and are) for, but I know that over 90% of the time if I Google "[topic of interest] wiki" I'm going to get what I'm looking for.

Back to area codes, I'm of the mind that we could have (and should have) realized what an explosion of numbers we'd need for mobile and data and established overlays on all area codes right away. Land lines get the old codes; mobile (and non-voice) lines get the new codes.

[GaryV]

I'm of the mind that we could have (and should have) realized what an explosion of numbers we'd need for mobile and data and established overlays on all area codes right away.

All of them? Even 906? 307? 802?

[jeffandnicole]

Back to area codes, I'm of the mind that we could have (and should have) realized what an explosion of numbers we'd need for mobile and data and established overlays on all area codes right away. Land lines get the old codes; mobile (and non-voice) lines get the new codes.

Predict what will happen 20 years from now.  Be accurate and precise.

[KeithE4Phx]

Land lines get the old codes; mobile (and non-voice) lines get the new codes.

That was the original intention when cellphones first became available.  NYC was going to be the first test of such a system, where cellphones were to use Area Code 917, while landlines stayed with 212 and 718.  The FCC shut that down almost immediately.  All services use area codes equally, and that's not likely to change now.

[Big John]

Land lines get the old codes; mobile (and non-voice) lines get the new codes.

That was the original intention when cellphones first became available.  NYC was going to be the first test of such a system, where cellphones were to use Area Code 917, while landlines stayed with 212 and 718.  The FCC shut that down almost immediately.  All services use area codes equally, and that's not likely to change now.

And 630 for cell phones around Chicago.  630 then became an area code for sururban Chicago.