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Locations Where Drivers do Things Wrong

Started by webny99, April 12, 2018, 09:03:36 AM

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webny99

When I say this, I mean locations where drivers, on a large scale, do the wrong thing, whether it be merging at the wrong point, or disturbing traffic flow, or even something more simple, like using a turn lane to go straight or pulling illegal u-turns.




Confession time: I've gotten myself into some close shaves at this location because, during afternoon rush, when the ramp to NY 590 North is notoriously congested, every single driver does the wrong thing here. About 2/3 do this, and I mean, literally, make a 90 degree turn in the direction you're looking and start lining up back onto the on-ramp, hundreds of feet before it even joins the mainline. Everyone else whizzes by at speed and then brakes at the last second to LOOK for a gap in traffic that does not exist, idiotically slowing down the southbound lane, and making delays even worse. I have never (when there's congestion) seen a vehicle do the right thing and merge at the actual merge point.

Every time I personally try to merge at the merge point, I get traffic swarming around me on both sides and trying to cut in front. This irks me to no end (and yesterday, I was so mad that I actually passed a Nissan Altima on the shoulder). I don't know what to do to diffuse this awful situation without doing the wrong thing myself, and I can't accept that as a solution.


froggie

Sounds to me like two things are in order:

- NYSP need to get their act in gear
- Find an alternative route, or travel at a different time.  If it's a commute, perhaps stick around at the workplace for 15-20 minutes?

webny99

#2
Quote- Find an alternative route, or travel at a different time.  If it's a commute, perhaps stick around at the workplace for 15-20 minutes?

My commute doesn't even involve that ramp - I intentionally take that route, on occasion, so I can analyze traffic flow and work on figuring out a good solution to the mess that exists.

hbelkins

Any freeway in Kentucky, if the car has an Ohio license plate, because of Buckeyes' tendencies to drive in the left lane.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

vdeane

That happens on at least one merge on I-87 northbound when it's congested, mainly at exits 2 and 4.  Fortunately, those aren't weaves, so using the acceleration lane as intended and then finding a gap actually works (most of the time, anyways).

The I-87/I-90 interchange (exit 1) is an interesting case.  On the ramps between the Northway and Free 90, the left lane is usually the slow lane, with the right lane as the fast lane.  This is because of lane drops, exit only lanes, and a merge, leaving most people scared to use the right lane.  It actually impedes flow when the occasional person does the right thing and moves right if they're the slow car.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

RobbieL2415

At every left turn, turning into the right lane of a two-lane road instead of the left.  CT is a "closest lane" state.  However, there is no time requirement to stay in the closest lane, but you need to land there and then move over.

jeffandnicole

4 Way Stops = 4 Way Yields, in whatever 'established' order is occurring.

Wide single lane off-ramps become dual lane off-ramps.

Passing a left turning vehicle on the shoulder.  Yet, roads have been designed to include wider shoulders at points where people may turn left specifically so people can pass on the shoulder, even though it's illegal.



Quote from: webny99 on April 12, 2018, 09:03:36 AM
When I say this, I mean locations where drivers, on a large scale, do the wrong thing, whether it be merging at the wrong point, or disturbing traffic flow, or even something more simple, like using a turn lane to go straight or pulling illegal u-turns.




Confession time: I've gotten myself into some close shaves at this location because, during afternoon rush, when the ramp to NY 590 North is notoriously congested, every single driver does the wrong thing here. About 2/3 do this, and I mean, literally, make a 90 degree turn in the direction you're looking and start lining up back onto the on-ramp, hundreds of feet before it even joins the mainline. Everyone else whizzes by at speed and then brakes at the last second to LOOK for a gap in traffic that does not exist, idiotically slowing down the southbound lane, and making delays even worse. I have never (when there's congestion) seen a vehicle do the right thing and merge at the actual merge point.

Every time I personally try to merge at the merge point, I get traffic swarming around me on both sides and trying to cut in front. This irks me to no end (and yesterday, I was so mad that I actually passed a Nissan Altima on the shoulder and proceeded to put my car in reverse* for a few seconds to get him sweating**). I don't know what to do to diffuse this awful situation without doing the wrong thing myself by default, and I can't accept that as a solution.

*In a completely stopped line of traffic, of course.
**Fearing he might follow me, I got off at Blossom Road, and sure enough, so did he - he pulled up next to me, rolled his window down, screamed some stuff, and threw a foreign object at my car. Fortunately, I hit the gas for the on-ramp and he turned down Blossom.


Well, the absolute worst thing you can do is engage the issue.  And if you're driving on the shoulder and backing up on the highway, you're now doing worse than everyone else.  You probably even had someone calling 911 reporting your tag number.  Don't get angry with others and do stupid shit like what you did...it can only end poorly for you.

BTW, many people have cameras in their cars. Stuff like that ends up on the internet all the time.

The best thing you can do in this point - just do what everyone else does.  Yes, maybe it's not technically correct.  But unless you want to tell me you were driving the speed limit or under prior to this point, you can't claim innocence that everyone else is doing wrong when you were doing wrong yourself.

Quote from: froggie on April 12, 2018, 09:13:38 AM
Sounds to me like two things are in order:

- NYSP need to get their act in gear

The problem is larger than what the NYSP can deal with.  The ramp is congested to begin with.  People are just pulling off earlier than they should be.   And looking at that shoulder, it looks quite narrow, so there's really no room to stop someone. 

Here's another thing - at least in NJ, someone told me they were complaining to a cop about a similar issue. The cop asked if there were hashmarks.  Apparently, if the road is lined with just shoulder lines, the cops have been told it's a non-ticketable offence if nothing happens.  Now, I know, there's several things technically wrong with driving in that area on the wrong side of the line.  But when it comes down to it, there's bigger fish to fry.

Rush hour sucks.  A lot of traffic sucks.  The cops have been told don't press it.  They are needed for other things more important than dealing with traffic trying to merge off a highway.


Eth

Drivers love to wait until approximately here to try to get into the left turn lanes for this light, despite the lane beginning a solid 250 yards behind the camera. By this point, both turn lanes are usually full (though they weren't farther back), resulting in this person blocking the leftmost through lane (which I am inevitably in because I'm planning to turn left at the light immediately after this one).

doorknob60

During rush hour when the normal ramp from WB I-184 to I-84 is backed up, it's not uncommon to see drivers do this, staying in the less congested right lane (headed for I-84 EB) then cutting over into the onramp coming from Franklin Rd to get to another I-84 WB ramp, saving like, 30 seconds maybe? Never seen an accident, but they do it in thick traffic at high speeds, it's an accident waiting to happen. Worse, sometimes people decide to do this last minute and drive over the gore point in front of the Exit 0 sign, then cut all the way over!



Just down the road, when traffic is slow, people feel the need to merge over as soon as it's physically possible. The left lane from the ramp does not end, the right one is ending soon, and the middle one ends a mile down the road. That middle lane everybody gets out of it as soon as possible, making the bottleneck at the actual merge in the picture much worse. I always use the middle lane either until a good gap shows up later, or until it ends (and I zipper merge in).



The whole "merging before necessary and sometimes before it's legal" thing is extremely common in the Boise area, really. I go out of my way to avoid it.

Brandon

Vehicles cut across this solid white line around here all the time, even though signage tells them not to do it.
Northbound Dan Ryan entrance from 18th Street
Signage on ramp
Second sign on ramp
"If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention." - Ramsay Bolton

"Symbolic of his struggle against reality." - Reg

Super Mateo

Pretty much all of NE Illinois and NW Indiana qualify, but I'll try to stick to the more egregious examples:

-I-57 northbound off ramp at 127th.  NOTHING here indicates a double left, yet people turn left from the middle lane all the time.
-I-57 northbound off ramp at 119th.  Opposite problem.  Clearly signed as a double left, but cars from the far left lane think they can turn into either lane.
-Double lefts in general.  Even though there is a dotted line to follow 90% of the time, people ignore it, usually causing the outside lane to not give the inside lane enough room.  I won't even get in the inside lane of those anymore.
-Don't assume a stopped at a light vehicle in a line of traffic is going to let you in when you're turning out of the gas station.  I can't believe how many people just bulldoze their way into traffic with this assumption.
-If a lane ends, the traffic in said lane needs to signal their way over.  Most of the time, they just cut off the drivers in the proper lane.  The same applies to merging.

Y muchos mas...

swhuck

Nolan Ryan Expwy (which is anything but), heading north across a frontage road to an onramp onto eastbound I-30 after a baseball game. There are two northbound lanes. Above the left lane is an arrow pointing straight. Above the right is an arrow pointing right. Confusingly enough, the onramp crosses the I-30 frontage road and immediately turns right to merge onto I-30.

It is common to see people in the right lane, who should be turning right onto the frontage road, go through the intersection to get onto the I-30 onramp. It has become almost as common for people in the left lane, who should be crossing the intersection to the onramp, to turn right onto the frontage road. Thankfully, I have yet to see both happen simultaneously.
Clinched: I-2, 5, 8, 10, 12, 15, 17, 19, 20, 22, 24, 25, 27, 29, 30, 35, 37, 39, 40, 43, 44, 45, 55, 59, 65, 66, 68, 70, 71, 72, 76 (both), 77, 78, 79, 80, 81, 82, 83, 84 (W), 85, 86 (W), 88 (W), 93, 94, 96, 97
US50, 101, 175, 199, 290, 380, 491/666
Clinched for now: I-11, 14, 49, 57

webny99

Quote from: jeffandnicole on April 12, 2018, 01:23:35 PM
Well, the absolute worst thing you can do is engage the issue.  And if you're driving on the shoulder and backing up on the highway, you're now doing worse than everyone else.  You probably even had someone calling 911 reporting your tag number.  Don't get angry with others and do stupid shit like what you did...it can only end poorly for you.

Well, you're right, of course. As a general rule I'm fairly benign, but get the right set of circumstances and I completely fly of the handle. Fortunately, it doesn't happen often and it takes a lot. Now, if someone called 911... what would happen? Nothing, more than likely, and certainly not short-term, to my knowledge.

QuoteThe best thing you can do in this point - just do what everyone else does.  Yes, maybe it's not technically correct.  But unless you want to tell me you were driving the speed limit or under prior to this point, you can't claim innocence that everyone else is doing wrong when you were doing wrong yourself.

There are no established standards for speed... everyone has their own preference, and its doesn't matter if someone's going 55 and someone's going 80. There ARE, however, standards for merges; and when the three cars in front of you all do something different, you have a problem.

Quote
Quote from: froggie on April 12, 2018, 09:13:38 AM
Sounds to me like two things are in order:
- NYSP need to get their act in gear
The problem is larger than what the NYSP can deal with.  The ramp is congested to begin with.  People are just pulling off earlier than they should be.   And looking at that shoulder, it looks quite narrow, so there's really no room to stop someone.

Interesting you say that, because accidents (mostly rear-end jobs, for obvious reasons) happen quite frequently in this area. There is barely enough room for a car on the shoulder - but everyone usually moves left anyways, making the scene the new chokepoint, such that the late mergers save way more time when this happens (because everybody else has three merges to their one).

I agree, though, that it's not really solvable by enforcement... and police presence downstream would, ironically, probably slow things up, creating a new chokepoint and eliminating the issue  :-D

This particular backup is actually more a problem with the far end - the weave merging onto 590. If everyone accelerated properly and merged at speed as they should, there wouldn't be backups. Sheer volume, while certainly a factor, isn't the problem so much as the debilitating double-weave. And knowing someone upstream needlessly braked and caused the whole mess doesn't do wonders for one's spirits...

TheHighwayMan3561

Twin Cities:
-Double white line separating the I-94 WB and I-94 EB ramp splits from eastbound I-394, heavily violated.
-Double white line at the end of the ramp from NB I-35W to WB I-94, designed to keep traffic from pouring onto mainline 94 too quickly. Problem is that this forms an exit only lane to Hennepin Avenue, so idiots constantly violate it instead of getting up to speed and merging leading to major headaches on westbound 94 (of course, the tunnel beyond the Hennepin exit does not help).
-General idiots crossing double whites on the MnPASS lanes.
-Idiots getting off 169 gunning across three lanes to get to the US 212 "second chance" ramp from westbound MN 62 without any regard for their surroundings.
self-certified as the dumbest person on this board for 5 years running

Bruce

Every bus and bike lane in Seattle is routinely used by cars for parking or passing, despite signage saying it isn't allowed.

Observe one bus lane:


Howell Street bus lanes by SounderBruce, on Flickr

The signs are quite clear:




20160805

Quote from: RobbieL2415 on April 12, 2018, 12:58:23 PM
At every left turn, turning into the right lane of a two-lane road instead of the left.  CT is a "closest lane" state.  However, there is no time requirement to stay in the closest lane, but you need to land there and then move over.

I see this all the time pretty much everywhere, and it drives me crazy too.  I know for one I'd have a lot less stress if other people were to actually turn properly.
Left for 5 months Oct 2018-Mar 2019 due to arguing in the DST thread.
Tried coming back Mar 2019.
Left again Jul 2019 due to more arguing.

froggie

Quote from: TheHighwayMan394-Double white line at the end of the ramp from NB I-35W to WB I-94, designed to keep traffic from pouring onto mainline 94 too quickly. Problem is that this forms an exit only lane to Hennepin Avenue, so idiots constantly violate it instead of getting up to speed and merging leading to major headaches on westbound 94 (of course, the tunnel beyond the Hennepin exit does not help).

This one, at least, will be addressed in the now-underway 35W rebuild.

texaskdog

Quote from: webny99 on April 12, 2018, 09:03:36 AM
When I say this, I mean locations where drivers, on a large scale, do the wrong thing, whether it be merging at the wrong point, or disturbing traffic flow, or even something more simple, like using a turn lane to go straight or pulling illegal u-turns.




Confession time: I've gotten myself into some close shaves at this location because, during afternoon rush, when the ramp to NY 590 North is notoriously congested, every single driver does the wrong thing here. About 2/3 do this, and I mean, literally, make a 90 degree turn in the direction you're looking and start lining up back onto the on-ramp, hundreds of feet before it even joins the mainline. Everyone else whizzes by at speed and then brakes at the last second to LOOK for a gap in traffic that does not exist, idiotically slowing down the southbound lane, and making delays even worse. I have never (when there's congestion) seen a vehicle do the right thing and merge at the actual merge point.

Every time I personally try to merge at the merge point, I get traffic swarming around me on both sides and trying to cut in front. This irks me to no end (and yesterday, I was so mad that I actually passed a Nissan Altima on the shoulder and proceeded to put my car in reverse* for a few seconds to get him sweating**). I don't know what to do to diffuse this awful situation without doing the wrong thing myself by default, and I can't accept that as a solution.

*In a completely stopped line of traffic, of course.
**Fearing he might follow me, I got off at Blossom Road, and sure enough, so did he - he pulled up next to me, rolled his window down, screamed some stuff, and threw a foreign object at my car. Fortunately, I hit the gas for the on-ramp and he turned down Blossom.


Yes so sick of budging, and idiots who let them in are the biggest part of the problem.  If the line is already full and stopped, you need to get in at the end.

Rothman

Nah.  Utilize the full capacity of the road and merge at the real merge point:  Where the lane ends.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

hbelkins

Quote from: Bruce on April 13, 2018, 03:16:38 AM



Is it just me, or does that sign look like the lane is reserved for Star Wars stormtroopers only?  :-D :rofl:


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

hotdogPi

Quote from: hbelkins on April 13, 2018, 10:30:39 AM
Quote from: Bruce on April 13, 2018, 03:16:38 AM



Is it just me, or does that sign look like the lane is reserved for Star Wars stormtroopers only?  :-D :rofl:

I saw two eyes and a nose/mouth, but I'm not that familiar with Star Wars.
Clinched, minus I-93 (I'm missing a few miles and my file is incorrect)

Traveled, plus US 13, 44, and 50, and several state routes

I will be in Burlington VT for the eclipse.

jeffandnicole

Quote from: Bruce on April 13, 2018, 03:16:38 AM

The signs are quite clear:



Maybe the problem is there's too many damn signs!


COLORADOrk

#22
Golden, CO - at the western end on C-470, many cars do a U-turn at the the signal (at US 6) to return to C-470 eastbound. This is probably because they missed the ramp for I-70 west because they were in the wrong lane.

The fact that people use this lane for left turns has always bothered me because traffic going from from C-470 west to US 6 west should just use the flyover ramp. That left turn lane really serves no purpose.

Another thing drivers do wrong at this intersection - cars going south on Johnson Blvd blow through the red light at the at-grade railroad crossing and sit at the second light at US 6.

Flint1979

Quote from: doorknob60 on April 12, 2018, 05:14:48 PM
During rush hour when the normal ramp from WB I-184 to I-84 is backed up, it's not uncommon to see drivers do this, staying in the less congested right lane (headed for I-84 EB) then cutting over into the onramp coming from Franklin Rd to get to another I-84 WB ramp, saving like, 30 seconds maybe? Never seen an accident, but they do it in thick traffic at high speeds, it's an accident waiting to happen. Worse, sometimes people decide to do this last minute and drive over the gore point in front of the Exit 0 sign, then cut all the way over!



Just down the road, when traffic is slow, people feel the need to merge over as soon as it's physically possible. The left lane from the ramp does not end, the right one is ending soon, and the middle one ends a mile down the road. That middle lane everybody gets out of it as soon as possible, making the bottleneck at the actual merge in the picture much worse. I always use the middle lane either until a good gap shows up later, or until it ends (and I zipper merge in).



The whole "merging before necessary and sometimes before it's legal" thing is extremely common in the Boise area, really. I go out of my way to avoid it.
What is that interchange? It looks like I-84 exits to itself.

Flint1979

I think around here it's the roundabouts, traffic circles, rotaries or whatever you want to call them. They don't have a lot of them in Michigan at least in my part of Michigan so it seems like a lot of people don't know how to use them. I've driven in New York and other states that have them and are pretty use to knowing how to use them.



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