Pennies and nickels cost more than their face value to produce. In addition, many currencies (euro, UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Norway, Israel) have the equivalent of $1 and $2 coins, while two (Japan and Switzerland) effectively have $5 coins. Here is my proposed reform, in detail:
1¢: Get rid of it entirely. Cash purchases are rounded to the nearest 5¢ after tax is calculated. If it's exactly halfway between multiples of 5¢ (e.g. $6.375 because it's $6 + 6.25% tax), round down. They don't need to be demonetized, but if Canada is any indication, people will stop using them pretty much immediately.
5¢: Stop making them. Unlike pennies, they might continue to see use even after production stops, but they'll eventually stop being used. This does make a coin (the quarter) not a multiple of the smallest coin (the dime), but any amount except 5¢ and 15¢ is possible. You can't really buy anything with 15¢ anyway. If your purchase comes out to x.05 or x.15, you can put down a quarter and get two dimes or one dime in change, or x.75 + three dimes or four dimes if you don't want change.
10¢: No change. Roosevelt has been on the dime since 1946, but there's no need to change this. At some point in the future, the material might need to be changed; either aluminum (like Japan's ¥1 coin) or steel (like Canada and the UK currently do) would work, but this would be for the future, not now.
25¢: No change. The quarter continues to be the denomination with a different design every year. When the dime changes materials in the future, so does the quarter. I decided not to replace the quarter with a 20¢ coin to avoid the "missing denomination" mentioned above because that just delays it by 20-30 years (when dimes get phased out, 50¢ not being a multiple of 20¢) rather than eliminating the problem entirely, plus I don't want to have a denomination actually worth something suddenly become worthless.
50¢: Instead of having a huge coin, it would be a moderately small gold-colored 7-sided coin with size between the UK's 20p and 50p coins (which are also 7-sided). Kennedy can remain on this coin. The edge is reeded. For those unfamiliar with non-round coins: they're called a Reuleaux polygon, and they have rounded corners. They have a constant diameter so that they can fit in vending machines in any orientation. The Canadian loonie is also an example, but it's not as noticeable as it has 11 sides.
$1: Keep the size and color, and make it much more used. Edge lettering will still be used. $1 and $2 bills will stop being made; the smallest bill will be $5 (although $1 and $2 bills will naturally die out as they wear out instead of being forcibly demonetized). The $1 coin currently gets a different design every year, but we don't really need this for both the quarter and the dollar. Lincoln and Jefferson aren't going away (unchanged $5 bill, $2 bill → $2 coin), nor is Washington (quarter), so we have an option for someone entirely new. Obama is still alive, so he's not available to put on a coin yet. (Yes, many people don't like him, but Kennedy was put on the half dollar only four years after many people voted against him.) Henry Clay, maybe? Ruth Bader Ginsburg?
$2: Bimetallic, being careful not to have the dimensions be the same as any of the common in-use bimetallic coins (Mexico's $1, $2, $5, $10, $20; 1€, 2€; £1, £2; C$2; 10 rupees; 10 rubles). Edge lettering like the dollar, but reeded along with the edge lettering (which helps distinguish from $1 and many foreign currencies). Jefferson was on the $2 bill, so he gets transferred to the $2 coin.
Banknotes: $5, $10, $20, $50, and $100 see no changes, except Andrew Jackson gets replaced and the $20 is made harder to counterfeit. No higher bills are introduced; there's a reason that some euro countries decided to stop making 200€ and 500€ banknotes after originally making them. Some countries have switched to plastic, but the disadvantage of that is that a very select few people are allergic to it, plus it would require all vending machines to update.
Vending machines would only need to change by accepting the new 50¢ and $2 coins.
Quote from: hotdogPi on April 16, 2024, 11:06:33 AM....
1¢: Get rid of it entirely. Cash purchases are rounded to the nearest 5¢ after tax is calculated. If it's exactly halfway between multiples of 5¢ (e.g. $6.375 because it's $6 + 6.25% tax), round down. They don't need to be demonetized, but if Canada is any indication, people will stop using them pretty much immediately.
5¢: Stop making them. Unlike pennies, they might continue to see use even after production stops, but they'll eventually stop being used. This does make a coin (the quarter) not a multiple of the smallest coin (the dime), but any amount except 5¢ and 15¢ is possible. You can't really buy anything with 15¢ anyway. If your purchase comes out to x.05 or x.15, you can put down a quarter and get two dimes or one dime in change, or x.75 + three dimes or four dimes if you don't want change.
....
Rounding to the nearest 5¢ seems to conflict with the idea of abolishing the nickel because of the problems it would cause with giving change when someone does pay cash.
I agree with your entire proposal, except for the "don't make any more nickels." Mostly because this reasoning has never made sense to me.
Quote from: hotdogPi on April 16, 2024, 11:06:33 AMPennies and nickels cost more than their face value to produce.
This doesn't mean they shouldn't be produced. If we need them for a currency system to operate as designed, the fact that it costs more than their face value isn't really relevant.
Maybe keep the nickel, but make it out of steel or aluminum instead?
Alternatively, if the nickel does stop being produced but people keep using the existing ones, the timing is about right that they'll be too damaged/worn for circulation at about the time where it would need to be phased out anyway.
Quote from: hotdogPi on April 16, 2024, 12:31:10 PMMaybe keep the nickel, but make it out of steel or aluminum instead?
Canada phased in steel nickels (with nickel plating, and a little bit of copper) beginning in 1999.
Steel is attracted to magnets, which makes Canadian nickels just like all the other coins now that pennies are out of production. OTOH, U.S. vending machines, etc. reject magnetic Canadian coins.
First off in this interesting and VERY relevant discussion is to end inflation. It is simply a flat rate confiscatory tax on all cash-based assets that was not passed by any governing body. Spend and then 'print' money to cover it on any governing idea and that is inflation. individual states and lower units of government here in the USA don't have that power, that is ONLY the federal government/Congress. MANY other countries have also adopted the USA dollar as their own, either entirely or at least by common use, simply because not having that power is a very strong disciplinary restriction on governing. Argentina is the latest to make a move in that direction and the USA's government has a fiduciary responsibility to all of those foreign and domestic governments to maintain that stability. That is the principal behind a gold standard. In fact, the relationship between 'real' inflation and the market price of gold between the end of the gold standard in the USA in April of 1933 and now (100:1 to 120:1 for both) cannot be ignored.
That said, going on the assumption that inflation is brought under control in the next couple of years, I wold do these things with the supply of circulating coins and banknotes in the USA:
- Drop all coins below quarters. They are no longer useful for any sort of legitimate commerce, only fine parsing of sales taxes. Remember that a century ago, we had the same slate of coins, but that was befor the 100:1 or higher real inflation. the penny of 1924 is the $1 bill of 2024.
Today, quarters are only very barely useful for commerce. One of them will buy 15 minutes of time from a parking meter here in downtown Appleton, WI or 7 minutes of time from a dryer at a laundry that I usually use. a full sized glass of beer from a local bar is $5 or $6, compared with 5¢ in 1919 (before Prohibition).
- drop 50¢ coins, they are physically too big to be useful in commerce.
- drop $1, $2 and $5 banknotes, replacing them all with coins. Ramp up production of current size/composition $1 coins to replace $1 notes. $2 coins would be new in the USA, $5 coins would be a reintroduction.
- Introduce new $200 banknotes and reintroduce $500 banknotes.
as for designs on the coins, first and most importantly. I would make them as politically neutral as possible. Once the current quarter design program runs its course, I would go with the 1932 'Fraser' design on both sides (the current program uses only her obverse design). Since $2 would be a new to the USA denomination of coin, great latitude in design and compositions are possible, but I like the thought of matching any two of the three of a shield, allegorical image of 'Liberty' and an eagle on them. For $5, I would reuse the designs that were used on the $5 gold Half Eagles in the early 20th century (they were GREAT!). Also the same diameter, and about 1.5 times the thickness of the Half Eagles and the same materials that are used in the current $1 coins. Further, use numbers for the denominations on all cions.
Mike
Quote from: mgk920 on April 16, 2024, 01:55:55 PMFirst off in this interesting and VERY relevant discussion is to end inflation. It is simply a flat rate confiscatory tax on all cash-based assets that was not passed by any governing body. Spend and then 'print' money to cover it on any governing idea and that is inflation. individual states and lower units of government here in the USA don't have that power, that is ONLY the federal government/Congress. MANY other countries have also adopted the USA dollar as their own, either entirely or at least by common use, simply because not having that power is a very strong disciplinary restriction on governing. Argentina is the latest to make a move in that direction and the USA's government has a fiduciary responsibility to all of those foreign and domestic governments to maintain that stability. That is the principal behind a gold standard. In fact, the relationship between 'real' inflation and the market price of gold between the end of the gold standard in the USA in April of 1933 (100:1 to 120:1 for both) cannot be ignored.
That said, going on the assumption that inflation is brought under control in the next couple of years, I wold do these things with the supply of circulating coins and banknotes in the USA:
- Drop all coins below quarters. They are no longer useful for any sort of legitimate commerce, only fine parsing of sales taxes. Remember that a century ago, we had the same slate of coins, but that was befor the 100:1 or higher real inflation. the penny of 1924 is the $1 bill of 2024.
quarters are only very barely useful for commerce. One of them will buy 15 minutes of time from a parking meter here in downtown Appleton, WI or 7 minutes of time from a dryer at a laundry that I usually use. a full sized glass of beer from a local bar is $5 or $6 (compared with 5¢ in 1919 before Prohibition).
- drop 50¢ coins, they are physically too big t be useul in commerce.
- drop $1, $2 and $5 banknotes, replacing them all with coins. Ramp up production of current size/composition $1 coins to replace $1 notes. $2 coins would be new in the USA, $5 coins would be a reintroduction.
- Introduce new $200 banknotes and reintroduce $500 banknotes.
as for designs on the coins, first and most importantly. I would make them as politically neutral as possible. Once the current quarter design program runs its course, I would go with the 1932 'Fraser' design on both sides (the current program uses only her obverse design). Since $2 would be a new to the USA denomination of coin, great latitude in design and compositions are possible, but I like the thought of matching any two of the three of a shield, allegorical image of 'Liberty' and an eagle on them. For $5, I would reuse the designs that were used on the $5 gold Half Eagles in the early 20th century, same diameter and about 2.5 times the thickness on the Half Eagles and the same materials that are used on the current $1. Also Use numbers for the denominations.
Mike
On a grand scheme of things, electronic money transfer is the modern way to go. Cash may have some use cases, but a lot of it is due to messed up concept of credit card use. Which encourages overspending (and interest income to bank), high transaction fees - which are used to bribe consumer with cashbacks, and overall outdated US banking system and business approaches (going from NET30 to NET90? Are your messenger turtles becoming too old?).
Instead of applying bandaid to the problem, probably giants like Chase and Visa should be allowed to fail in the next round.
- "Swedish rounding" will never be adopted in the USA. And the main reason the fact that the penny costs whatever to produce and is worth only one cent is irrelevant is because the use of credit cards for every transaction is going to become more and more and more common. I'm old, and I don't use cash much, but everyone I know under 35 only carries, if any, an emergency twenty or fifty. They charge everything. As those people age and my generation goes away, cash is done for. I listen to the Tony Kornheiser podcast and a couple of weeks ago he was talking about going to CVS and the cashier was getting trained, and the seasoned employee was telling the rookie "Oh, he pays cash, so you need to give him back change, the brown ones are worth one cent..."
- 50c the problem with the 50 cent piece is that people, wrongly, think they are collectable, and they don't circulate. As long as the generation that includes the Cult of Kennedy is alive, that won't change, no matter the shape or size of the coin. Take him off if you want the coin to move.
- American Loonies and Twonies, I'm all for that, but we discussed in a different thread the political power that keeps the paper being made in his district, so its not happening. It should, it is how Canada, UK, Euro, etc. do it.
- Who is on what, is political. So I will pass. I don't know what you have against Jackson, and I think that any change of currency faces would blow up one side or another. If they ever do change, I expect they will go with allegorical figures.
- The world has pretty much agreed that no bills worth more than about US$100 should exist. Crime fighting, supposedly. Of course, there will come a day, with inflation currently in explosion mode, when $100 is so small as to be impractical as the largest bill, but that is some time from now.
Quote from: mgk920 on April 16, 2024, 01:55:55 PM- drop 50¢ coins, they are physically too big to be useful in commerce.
I suggested a size reduction in my OP rather than eliminating them entirely. The idea is "dollar coin color but smaller".
Quote from: mgk920 on April 16, 2024, 01:55:55 PMFurther, use numbers for the denominations.
Absolutely agreed. I forgot to mention this.
Quote from: SP Cook on April 16, 2024, 02:14:02 PM- American Loonies and Twonies, I'm all for that, but we discussed in a different thread the political power that keeps the paper being made in his district, so its not happening. It should, it is how Canada, UK, Euro, etc. do it.
I think the company that produces the $1 bills would be fine with $1 being a coin and ramping up production of $2 bills to be used in everyday transactions, but of course, this is only halfway to what I suggested above.
Quote from: kalvado on April 16, 2024, 02:05:33 PMOn a grand scheme of things, electronic money transfer is the modern way to go. Cash may have some use cases, but a lot of it is due to messed up concept of credit card use. Which encourages overspending (and interest income to bank), high transaction fees - which are used to bribe consumer with cashbacks, and overall outdated US banking system and business approaches (going from NET30 to NET90? Are your messenger turtles becoming too old?).
Instead of applying bandaid to the problem, probably giants like Chase and Visa should be allowed to fail in the next round.
A sizable number of locals here are (legal) immigrants from places where a serious level of distrust of banks is in their culture, so for them, coins and banknotes are a fact of life. Also, then the power goes out or the system goes down either from a natural cause or worse.
Mike
Quote from: SP Cook on April 16, 2024, 02:14:02 PM- 50c the problem with the 50 cent piece is that people, wrongly, think they are collectable, and they don't circulate. As long as the generation that includes the Cult of Kennedy is alive, that won't change, no matter the shape or size of the coin. Take him off if you want the coin to move.
...
- The world has pretty much agreed that no bills worth more than about US$100 should exist. Crime fighting, supposedly. Of course, there will come a day, with inflation currently in explosion mode, when $100 is so small as to be impractical as the largest bill, but that is some time from now.
There are about 6 quarters and 9 dimes per person in US minted in 2016 (just found data for that year). There is about 1 half-dollar per 100 people minted same year.
Yes, $100 and 200 euro ($212 right now) - 500 euro is no longer being printed.
Quote from: mgk920 on April 16, 2024, 02:28:36 PMA sizable number of locals here are (legal) immigrants from places where a serious level of distrust of banks is in their culture, so for them, coins and banknotes are a fact of life. Also, then the power goes out or the system goes down either from a natural cause or worse.
When the power is off, so are many ways of spending money. If there are ways of sending money via phone interface (think Venmo), power requirement is significantly lower. And if you're talking civilization collapse, cash may have limited value anyway.
Psychological barriers to banking, though, are understandable. Moreso with... what's the latest politically correct wording for illegal immigrants?
Reducing entry threshold for bank use may be part of the deal...
I think people would be surprised at how much cash is still used by a significant portion of our society. I doubt that's changing much anytime soon.
Quote from: kalvado on April 16, 2024, 04:07:32 PMThere are about 6 quarters and 9 dimes per person in US minted in 2016 (just found data for that year). There is about 1 half-dollar per 100 people minted same year.
For 2023, half-dollars minting went up
Rough per-person numbers:
15 pennies (down from 20 in 2022)
5 nickels, 9 dimes and quarter each - small changes
1 half-dollar per 5 people (up from 1 per 25 people in 2022)
1 dollar coin per 150 people (small change, but who cares)
Just revalue our current currency to where 1 penny now equals $1.
Quote from: Rothman on April 16, 2024, 04:41:58 PMJust revalue our current currency to where 1 penny now equals $1.
I would make out like a bandit, with all the bronze (1981 and earlier, and some 1982) pennies I'm holding, for their copper value, which is nowhere near $1. There are really serious penny hoarders out there, who would reap enormous profits.
Quote from: oscar on April 16, 2024, 04:55:35 PMQuote from: Rothman on April 16, 2024, 04:41:58 PMJust revalue our current currency to where 1 penny now equals $1.
I would make out like a bandit, with all the bronze (1981 and earlier, and some 1982) pennies I'm holding, for their copper value, which is nowhere near $1. There are really serious penny hoarders out there, who would reap enormous profits.
Of course, what costs $1 now would then cost $100... :D
Quote from: oscar on April 16, 2024, 04:55:35 PMQuote from: Rothman on April 16, 2024, 04:41:58 PMJust revalue our current currency to where 1 penny now equals $1.
I would make out like a bandit, with all the bronze (1981 and earlier, and some 1982) pennies I'm holding, for their copper value, which is nowhere near $1. There are really serious penny hoarders out there, who would reap enormous profits.
Yea, the bronze cents now about 2.84¢ each in 'melt' (market metal) value and the newer 'Zincolns' are now 0.74¢ each (source - usacoinbook(dot)cam ). I'm still a bit surprised at how many 'bronzies' I'm still getting in change. Neither cents nor nickles can possibly be made at a profit by the USA.
Mike
Quote from: SP Cook on April 16, 2024, 02:14:02 PM- 50c the problem with the 50 cent piece is that people, wrongly, think they are collectable, and they don't circulate. As long as the generation that includes the Cult of Kennedy is alive, that won't change, no matter the shape or size of the coin. Take him off if you want the coin to move.
There's a lot more to it than that—businesses don't ask for them in their change orders so people never get them to begin with, and because businesses don't ask for them banks don't either, so businesses can't even stock them if they want to. Also, if you wanted to have a separate pocket for every denomination of coin available, you would need six pockets in the cashier drawer, whereas the most I've ever seen is five (and some even have only four!) That fifth pocket can be used as a combination $1/50¢ pocket since circulation is so low, but if both of them started to circulate again it would get awkward really quickly.
50¢ coins do circulate in some specific applications, such as casinos. Payout on a $5 blackjack is $7.50. In the casinos I've worked at in Oklahoma, that would be one red ($5), two whites ($1), and a yellow chip (50¢). But casino chips cost over $1 each to have manufactured, so some casinos have figured out it's much cheaper to just use 50¢ coins rather than chips. (You never need more than one 50¢ chip at a time, and the ease of counting large piece counts is the main reason chips are used rather than cash.)
I think some of you overthink this in the day of electronic transfers. I agree that at least the pennies and dollar bills should be dropped. The 1/2 dollar coin is of no particular worth. The coin is too large for the primary usages of coins today (vending machine and change back).
The 1/2 dollar was the first 20th century US coin that clearly had a value higher than its face value. The silver content used to be high enough that they were collectable for their metallurgical value. That has not been the case for over 50 years. People still collect them as opposed to spend them.
I think we should promote use of dollar coins. I think we have enough other denominations. I am unsure of the utility of the $2.00 bill. It doesn't really circulate because it does not fit in standard cash drawers. Perhaps it would do better if the $1.00 bills were gone.
$200 and $500 bills just add nothing to it. The $100. is not circulated very heavily except in gray and black market transactions and vanity use. By vanity use, I mean people whip out a $100 to look or feel important. The $50. should have wider usage than it does. It may fall victim of prohibitions of bills larger than a $20 in many (currently decreasing) retail locations.
The penny and dollar bill should be gone. The 50 cent piece as it is has little use. The jury is out on the nickel and dime.
I think people would adapt quite quickly to rounding cash transactions to the nearest 5 cents, so the penny should go away. And getting rid of the penny opens up a spot for $1 coins in cash tills.
A few people might wait for the total price to come up and decide whether to use cash or card. "$23.42. If I pay cash I'll save 2 cents because it will round down." That's not going to be in most people's thoughts.
I'm not so sure about rounding to the nearest dime. Part of the problem is that 1, 2, 3 and 4 cents go down; 6, 7, 8 and 9 cents round up. What about 5? Yes, I know there's a standard method for rounding 5; I'm just not sure people will accept it all the time. And bias will sneak into peoples' memories. "They round it up more often than they round it down." That's less likely when rounding to the nearest nickel.
I also don't see much value in the 50 cent piece. They mostly aren't used now; putting out 2 quarters instead of a half dollar isn't a big deal.
Quote from: GaryV on April 17, 2024, 08:57:38 AMI'm not so sure about rounding to the nearest dime. Part of the problem is that 1, 2, 3 and 4 cents go down; 6, 7, 8 and 9 cents round up. What about 5? Yes, I know there's a standard method for rounding 5; I'm just not sure people will accept it all the time. And bias will sneak into peoples' memories. "They round it up more often than they round it down." That's less likely when rounding to the nearest nickel.
New Zealand rounds to the nearest 10 cents, and 5 goes down.
Quote from: GaryV on April 17, 2024, 08:57:38 AMI think people would adapt quite quickly to rounding cash transactions to the nearest 5 cents, so the penny should go away. And getting rid of the penny opens up a spot for $1 coins in cash tills.
A few people might wait for the total price to come up and decide whether to use cash or card. "$23.42. If I pay cash I'll save 2 cents because it will round down." That's not going to be in most people's thoughts.
I'm not so sure about rounding to the nearest dime. Part of the problem is that 1, 2, 3 and 4 cents go down; 6, 7, 8 and 9 cents round up. What about 5? Yes, I know there's a standard method for rounding 5; I'm just not sure people will accept it all the time. And bias will sneak into peoples' memories. "They round it up more often than they round it down." That's less likely when rounding to the nearest nickel.
I also don't see much value in the 50 cent piece. They mostly aren't used now; putting out 2 quarters instead of a half dollar isn't a big deal.
Wouldn't every transaction be rounded to the nearest nickel regardless if its on a card or with cash?
Anyway, get rid of the penny. Get rid of the $1 bill and only use a $1 coin. That's really all that is needed.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on April 17, 2024, 09:15:42 AMWouldn't every transaction be rounded to the nearest nickel regardless if its on a card or with cash?
Canada currently only does so with cash. I don't know about other countries.
Any ideas for the design of the $1 coin? I mentioned above that we don't need both quarters and dollars changing every year, and removing $1 bills doesn't remove a person (Washington is still on the quarter), so we have a free slot to put someone new. mgk920 said they should all be neutral rather than people, but nobody else has chimed in on this.
10-25-100 coin lineup without a nickel creates problems at the bottom of the scale, where 5 cents isn't used - but then 25s can only be used in pairs. 1-2-5 type of lineup makes more sense, but changing the existing quarter is too much to ask.
My proposal is simpler:
Coins: 5c, 25c, $1
Bills: $2, $5, $20, $100
In the 1930s, half dollars were more common in everyday circulation than were quarters. They did not truly fall out of favor in everyday use until the mid 1960s when coins were debased under the LBJ administration. as for halves, IMHO, they would still be in common use today if their composition was made the dame as were dimes and quarters starting with their 1965 dated production.
Mike
Quote from: mgk920 on April 17, 2024, 11:29:12 AMIn the 1930s, half dollars were more common in everyday circulation than were quarters. They did not truly fall out of favor in everyday use until the mid 1960s when coins were debased under the LBJ administration. as for halves, IMHO, they would still be in common use today if their composition was made the dame as were dimes and quarters starting with their 1965 dated production.
Mike
But dimes, quarters and halves ARE the same alloy, and same unit weight of $20/pound.
Quote from: kalvado on April 17, 2024, 11:44:01 AMQuote from: mgk920 on April 17, 2024, 11:29:12 AMIn the 1930s, half dollars were more common in everyday circulation than were quarters. They did not truly fall out of favor in everyday use until the mid 1960s when coins were debased under the LBJ administration. as for halves, IMHO, they would still be in common use today if their composition was made the dame as were dimes and quarters starting with their 1965 dated production.
Mike
But dimes, quarters and halves ARE the same alloy, and same unit weight of $20/pound.
mgk is referring to half dollars being silver for six years after dimes and quarters switching away from silver.
From 1965 to 1970, half dollars were 40% silver, while dimes and quarters contained no silver. People stopped using half dollars in these six years.
Quote from: hotdogPi on April 17, 2024, 11:57:23 AMQuote from: kalvado on April 17, 2024, 11:44:01 AMQuote from: mgk920 on April 17, 2024, 11:29:12 AMIn the 1930s, half dollars were more common in everyday circulation than were quarters. They did not truly fall out of favor in everyday use until the mid 1960s when coins were debased under the LBJ administration. as for halves, IMHO, they would still be in common use today if their composition was made the dame as were dimes and quarters starting with their 1965 dated production.
Mike
But dimes, quarters and halves ARE the same alloy, and same unit weight of $20/pound.
mgk is referring to half dollars being silver for six years after dimes and quarters switching away from silver.
From 1965 to 1970, half dollars were 40% silver, while dimes and quarters contained no silver. People stopped using half dollars in these six years.
From everything I've read, this is exactly the issue. Even with the reduced silver content during those years, speculators still hoarded half dollars because of the possibility that the silver would make them more valuable, and some people also hoarded them because the Kennedy assassination was such a raw memory at the time. By the time the Mint changed the coin's composition (which presumably required an amendment to 31 USC 5112, the statute governing coin denomination, size, and composition), people had become used to functioning without half dollars and they never returned to widespread usage. Vending machines' non-acceptance of them no doubt compounded that issue (although some change machines accepted them).
Jukeboxes commonly used them after mid-1970 (single song plays were 25¢, 3/50¢, at the time and had gone up from 10¢ each a couple of years earlier).
Mike
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on April 17, 2024, 10:54:18 AMMy proposal is simpler:
Coins: 5c, 25c, $1
Bills: $2, $5, $20, $100
I'm starting to think some of you haven't actually worked with cash before. 95¢ being three quarters and four nickels would be an unmitigated pain in the ass. Remember, rolls contain either 40 or 50 pieces; if you get rid of the dime that means you could blow through a whole roll of nickels in ten transactions. (Meaning you have to close the window while you get another roll of nickels from somewhere. Meaning customers start being a dick to you.)
The days where we ran out of dimes at work were always miserable.
Simply put, changing something that's been normal practice for centuries wouldn't garner much American popular support, nor even substantial Congressional support.
Round to the nearest quarter. 13s and 63s round down. 38s and 88s round up (notice: all "tied" rounds end at even dollars or half dollars, intentionally). Part of me thinks the nearest half-dollar, but the prevalence of the current quarter over the 50cent piece keeps me glued to the quarter. The penny, nickle, and dime had their run. Make it legal to scrap them immediately if one so chooses or as deposited to banks they go away after whatever lenght transition period is approved
Coins: Quarter. Dollar. 2Dollar.
Bills: 5, 10, 20, 50, 100
I'd almost rather see a $25 bill and make the $20 go away, but I don't think enough is gained to make that change worth it
Quote from: epzik8 on April 17, 2024, 08:34:17 PMSimply put, changing something that's been normal practice for centuries wouldn't garner much American popular support, nor even substantial Congressional support.
Few things people basically agree with:
- penny isn't worth enough
- $1 bills don't last too long as their value is down and they go back and forth a lot.
Those could be acted upon, actually Canada survives with $1 and $2 coins but without a penny just fine.
Everything else is "if it's not broken..."
Quote from: kalvado on April 17, 2024, 08:48:55 PMQuote from: epzik8 on April 17, 2024, 08:34:17 PMSimply put, changing something that's been normal practice for centuries wouldn't garner much American popular support, nor even substantial Congressional support.
Few things people basically agree with:
- penny isn't worth enough
- $1 bills don't last too long as their value is down and they go back and forth a lot.
Those could be acted upon, actually Canada survives with $1 and $2 coins but without a penny just fine.
Everything else is "if it's not broken..."
And realistically, if we just get rid of the penny and dollar bill, we've eliminated the biggest waste in the currency system.
Quote from: ilpt4u on April 17, 2024, 08:46:29 PMRound to the nearest quarter. 13s and 63s round down. 38s and 88s round up (notice: all "tied" rounds end at even dollars or half dollars, intentionally). Part of me thinks the nearest half-dollar, but the prevalence of the current quarter over the 50cent piece keeps me glued to the quarter. The penny, nickle, and dime had their run. Make it legal to scrap them immediately if one so chooses or as deposited to banks they go away after whatever lenght transition period is approved
Coins: Quarter. Dollar. 2Dollar.
Bills: 5, 10, 20, 50, 100
I'd almost rather see a $25 bill and make the $20 go away, but I don't think enough is gained to make that change worth it
Quote from: ilpt4u on April 17, 2024, 08:46:29 PMRound to the nearest quarter. 13s and 63s round down. 38s and 88s round up (notice: all "tied" rounds end at even dollars or half dollars, intentionally). Part of me thinks the nearest half-dollar, but the prevalence of the current quarter over the 50cent piece keeps me glued to the quarter. The penny, nickle, and dime had their run. Make it legal to scrap them immediately if one so chooses or as deposited to banks they go away after whatever lenght transition period is approved
Coins: Quarter. Dollar. 2Dollar.
Bills: 5, 10, 20, 50, 100
I'd almost rather see a $25 bill and make the $20 go away, but I don't think enough is gained to make that change worth it
I like that slate, except that I would use $5 coins instead of banknotes (modern versions of the really old 'half eagles'). OTOH, a denomination of '25' of anything was the real oddball, making finer parsing much harder. Many other places have found the '1-2-5' progressions much easier and more efficient, too. BTW, over a century ago, the USA also had a gold 'quarter eagle' ($2.50 coin).
Mike
Quote from: ilpt4u on April 17, 2024, 08:46:29 PMRound to the nearest quarter. 13s and 63s round down. 38s and 88s round up (notice: all "tied" rounds end at even dollars or half dollars, intentionally).
I don't know if that makes sense, if only because there are no ties when rounding an integer cent to the nearest quarter dollar. 12, 37, 62, and 87 cents should all round down, and 13, 38, 63, and 88 cents should all round up.
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on April 20, 2024, 01:06:22 AMQuote from: ilpt4u on April 17, 2024, 08:46:29 PMRound to the nearest quarter. 13s and 63s round down. 38s and 88s round up (notice: all "tied" rounds end at even dollars or half dollars, intentionally).
I don't know if that makes sense, if only because there are no ties when rounding an integer cent to the nearest quarter dollar. 12, 37, 62, and 87 cents should all round down, and 13, 38, 63, and 88 cents should all round up.
When I am working at my food delivery job, when a customer wants the 'odd' coins (below $1) back, I'll just round the change UP to the next even 25¢. My total loss on that has been less than 10¢/month on average for the past several years. (I know, how do I even manage to survive???)
Mike
Am I the first one to mention the colour of US bills? The fact that they're all green drives me nuts, it makes it harder to differentiate them, especially when they're in your wallet. Every other currency I know of uses different colour bills.
They're different colors, starting about 20 years ago. It's just that the colors are muted rather than bright.
Yeah, the colors are readily apparent when you have bills of different denomination next to each other. Can't say I've ever gotten them confused. ($1s and $2s are the "same color"—black and white, not green—but the layout of the $2 is different enough that it's obvious it's a different denomination in practice.)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/00/USDnotesNew.png/551px-USDnotesNew.png)
Quote from: mgk920 on April 16, 2024, 05:15:45 PMQuote from: oscar on April 16, 2024, 04:55:35 PMQuote from: Rothman on April 16, 2024, 04:41:58 PMJust revalue our current currency to where 1 penny now equals $1.
I would make out like a bandit, with all the bronze (1981 and earlier, and some 1982) pennies I'm holding, for their copper value, which is nowhere near $1. There are really serious penny hoarders out there, who would reap enormous profits.
Yea, the bronze cents now about 2.84¢ each in 'melt' (market metal) value and the newer 'Zincolns' are now 0.74¢ each (source - usacoinbook(dot)cam ). I'm still a bit surprised at how many 'bronzies' I'm still getting in change. Neither cents nor nickles can possibly be made at a profit by the USA.
Mike
If I had a penny every time I've heard this...
Specie is not a scratch-off lottery ticket to be used once and then discarded. More than 99% of all circulating coinage winds up reused multiple times. Besides, commerce and inflation guarantees it gets used multiple times.
Sure, there's a few collectors, hoarders, and lost change but that's an iota of circulation.
The problem is that if a 1¢ coin has more than 1¢ in materials in it, it starts to become profitable to harvest the materials from the coin rather than circulate it.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 22, 2024, 07:39:34 AMThe problem is that if a 1¢ coin has more than 1¢ in materials in it, it starts to become profitable to harvest the materials from the coin rather than circulate it.
Which is against the law. (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/333)
Quote from: formulanone on April 22, 2024, 08:13:25 AMQuote from: Scott5114 on April 22, 2024, 07:39:34 AMThe problem is that if a 1¢ coin has more than 1¢ in materials in it, it starts to become profitable to harvest the materials from the coin rather than circulate it.
Which is against the law. (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/333)
Yes, and we all know that because murder is against the law, nobody ever gets murdered...
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 22, 2024, 08:24:57 AMQuote from: formulanone on April 22, 2024, 08:13:25 AMQuote from: Scott5114 on April 22, 2024, 07:39:34 AMThe problem is that if a 1¢ coin has more than 1¢ in materials in it, it starts to become profitable to harvest the materials from the coin rather than circulate it.
Which is against the law. (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/333)
Yes, and we all know that because murder is against the law, nobody ever gets murdered...
...but if we dare not use our turn signals, it's death to the infidels.
Nobody is going to bother melting down tiny amounts of coinage, and obviously the "system" still works. Though I do agree the penny could disappear and I wouldn't care, there's lots of reasons why it seems politically unpopular. There's enough out there to never mint another penny again, and let it slowly disappear from circulation. Convincing the masses they deserve less money just never seems to be much of a political platform; besides, we'd dump the cost of one cent pieces into another form of currency and magically there'd be nothing left over.
politics ≠ logic, anyhow
Something tells me the cost of getting the materials out of pennies would be more than it's worth.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 22, 2024, 03:58:54 AMYeah, the colors are readily apparent when you have bills of different denomination next to each other. Can't say I've ever gotten them confused. ($1s and $2s are the "same color"—black and white, not green—but the layout of the $2 is different enough that it's obvious it's a different denomination in practice.)
....
I thought the same was largely true of the style of bills with which most of us grew up. There were various visual cues aside from the numerals. For example, the elaborate scrollwork along the top was unique to the $20 compared to any of the other banknotes in that series. I still feel like that style of $20 was perhaps the most "elegant," for lack of a better word, of any US banknote issued during my lifetime.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5d/US-Series-1995-%2420-Obverse.jpg)
The $50 was laid out similarly to the $2 in terms of having "The United States of America" on the bottom, but the numeral "50" appearing in those circles was unique among the set of seven banknotes.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2e/%2450_Dollar_Bill_Series_1969C_Front.jpg/1920px-%2450_Dollar_Bill_Series_1969C_Front.jpg)
It was the mid-1990s series of "large portrait" notes that seemed to confound some people. As I've noted elsewhere, I recall multiple times when I encountered cashiers who mistook the $50 of this style for the $20. Obviously there were visual distinctions, but I'd say they were a lot more subtle in many ways compared to the previous styles seen above ("20" was shaded, the words "Twenty Dollars" were positioned differently from the words "Fifty Dollars," the $20 had a different little border around the white space). I very much prefer the current series to these. (The blue band on the current $100 bill, seen above in Scott5114's post with images of the current series, is a further unique identifying feature for that one.)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d7/US_%2420_Series_1996_Obverse.jpg)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d9/US_%2450_Series_1996_Obverse.jpg)
To me, the biggest visual cue about the old-style money was that different bills had different numbers on them indicating their value. :awesomeface:
Quote from: SEWIGuy on April 22, 2024, 10:15:00 AMTo me, the biggest visual cue about the old-style money was that different bills had different numbers on them indicating their value. :awesomeface:
Heh, I also thought about saying that but, for once in my life, I decided it was more snarky than I felt like being at the moment.
Quote from: 1995hoo on April 22, 2024, 10:16:59 AMQuote from: SEWIGuy on April 22, 2024, 10:15:00 AMTo me, the biggest visual cue about the old-style money was that different bills had different numbers on them indicating their value. :awesomeface:
Heh, I also thought about saying that but, for once in my life, I decided it was more snarky than I felt like being at the moment.
Also, the various bills contained the presence of varying Presidata.
The green is used because it is the toughest color match in printing, it is an anti-counterfeiting thing.
Mike
Quote from: mgk920 on April 22, 2024, 11:47:47 AMThe green is used because it is the toughest color match in printing, it is an anti-counterfeiting thing.
Mike
It makes some sense, but technology moved a bit further since then. On one hand, colorimetry has improved. On the other hand things like plastic notes with transparent windows and longer service life, multicolor high resolution features, metal encrusting - that all makes bills harder to reproduce. Keeping traditional look is fully understandable, but not the only way to go.
Not that US doesn't use those - $10 and 20 have some metallic-looking print in the corner (sorry, no larger bills on me right now). But they don't catch the eye at a first glance.
Who really wants their currency to look like Monopoly money?
Quote from: SEWIGuy on April 22, 2024, 10:15:00 AMTo me, the biggest visual cue about the old-style money was that different bills had different numbers on them indicating their value. :awesomeface:
Doesn't really help much when you've got a strap of 99 $20s with one $5 stuck in it somewhere.
Quote from: GaryV on April 22, 2024, 03:15:33 PMWho really wants their currency to look like Monopoly money?
What, you mean having the same design on all of the denominations, with the only change being the numbers printed on it? To me that's the hallmark of Monopoly money, rather than the colors—just about every currency has colors these days.
The currency trend that I don't like is printing the designs in portrait orientation. I get that the idea is that most of the time when you hand money over to someone, you do it in portrait orientation...but I don't care, money is landscape, dang it.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on April 22, 2024, 10:15:00 AMTo me, the biggest visual cue about the old-style money was that different bills had different numbers on them indicating their value. :awesomeface:
A bit of redundancy can be good, though, especially with respect to something as easy and inexpensive to implement as color.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 22, 2024, 07:25:34 PMThe currency trend that I don't like is printing the designs in portrait orientation. I get that the idea is that most of the time when you hand money over to someone, you do it in portrait orientation...but I don't care, money is landscape, dang it.
Following those lines, a currency trend that I would like would be if the bills were different sizes. Back in the day, increasing denominations of French francs had longer bills but with the same width, which I would prefer over the current euros, which get longer and wider since the 5 euro bill is too small and the 200 is too big.
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on April 22, 2024, 08:32:30 PMFollowing those lines, a currency trend that I would like would be if the bills were different sizes. Back in the day, increasing denominations of French francs had longer bills but with the same width, which I would prefer over the current euros, which get longer and wider since the 5 euro bill is too small and the 200 is too big.
Yes, the US is basically the only major currency that has all the bills the same size. And the main reason for that is MEI (the subsidiary of Mars—yeah, the candy bar company—that makes bill acceptors) has good lobbyists. They don't want to have to reflash their devices with new software that can handle bills of different sizes.
Advocates for the blind took the US government to court saying that US currency discriminates against the blind by not including any sort of tactile means of differentiating bills. They won and the court ordered the government to address the issue. That was in 2008, which gives you a pretty good idea of exactly what a circuit court of appeals ruling is actually worth in this country.
Quote from: kalvado on April 22, 2024, 12:14:14 PM...
Not that US doesn't use those - $10 and 20 have some metallic-looking print in the corner (sorry, no larger bills on me right now). But they don't catch the eye at a first glance.
I just took a look in my wallet. The $100 has a sort of copper- or brass-like finish on the "100" in the lower right corner and on the Liberty Bell that appears to Franklin's right. (The color changes as I tilt the bill and the light hits it in different ways.) The big "100" on the back side has a less metallic look, and the blue thread on the front has a 3-D visual effect with small "100" figures throughout.
I don't have any current-style $50s, $10s, or $5s at the moment, so I can't comment on those because I've never paid much attention to that particular aspect.
The blue star and red torch on the $50 and $10 respectively both use the metallic ink, and the number in the lower-right corner of the obverse changes from copper to green when tilted, as the numbers on the lower-right of the $100 and $20 do. (On the 1996-style N-type bills, this was green to black. However, the maker of this ink limits sells each color pair to only one country at a time, and the one North Korea got was similar enough to the green-black that it is theorized they were using it to counterfeit US notes. So we changed to green-copper with the 2004 series.)
The $5 has no color-changing or metallic ink because it's such a low denomination. And the ink on the back of the $100 isn't metallic; that's just plain mustard-yellow ink that's printed in a pattern that suggests a metallic appearance.
Some fun anti-counterfeiting features of the current series you may not know about: the portraits of Franklin and Grant on the $100 and $50 incorporate tiny writing in them (look at their shirt collars).
Also, the vertical strip that appears when you hold the bill up to the light glows under a blacklight, with different colors for different denominations (pink for $100s, yellow for $50s, green for $20s, orange for $10s, blue for $5s). The blacklight was my go-to counterfeit detection method when I worked the cash cage; most counterfeiters don't even know that strip changes colors, much less are able to replicate it.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 22, 2024, 07:25:34 PMQuote from: SEWIGuy on April 22, 2024, 10:15:00 AMTo me, the biggest visual cue about the old-style money was that different bills had different numbers on them indicating their value. :awesomeface:
Doesn't really help much when you've got a strap of 99 $20s with one $5 stuck in it somewhere.
So you got 99 $20s but a $20 ain't one?
Quote from: GaryV on April 22, 2024, 03:15:33 PMWho really wants their currency to look like Monopoly money?
When we were stationed in Germany in the mid-60s, I read an article in Stars and Stripes one morning about a bank in Sweden that had exchanged Monopoly Money for Swedish Krona!
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 23, 2024, 12:00:47 AMThe blue star and red torch on the $50 and $10 respectively both use the metallic ink, and the number in the lower-right corner of the obverse changes from copper to green when tilted, as the numbers on the lower-right of the $100 and $20 do. (On the 1996-style N-type bills, this was green to black. However, the maker of this ink limits sells each color pair to only one country at a time, and the one North Korea got was similar enough to the green-black that it is theorized they were using it to counterfeit US notes. So we changed to green-copper with the 2004 series.)
The $5 has no color-changing or metallic ink because it's such a low denomination. And the ink on the back of the $100 isn't metallic; that's just plain mustard-yellow ink that's printed in a pattern that suggests a metallic appearance.
In fact, the latest redesign of the $5 was mainly to increase the security of the previous design $100, this do to bad guys 'bleaching' the paper from previous design $5s to print up fake C-notes, the watermarks were so similar.
Mike
My thoughts:
- Eliminate all coins. Prices are rounded up or down to the nearest dollar
- Transition the Federal Reserve Notes to colored plastic with Braille for denominations
- Increase production of the $2 bill to match that of the $1 bill.
- Remove "In God We Trust" from all bills and replace it with, "Liberty and Justice for All."
- Have the following denominations:
1, 2, 5, 10, 15, 20, 50, 100,
- Feature different portraits on the obverse side of each bill, including historical and modern Americans:
- 1, George Washington, Martin Luther King, Jr., Orville and Wilbur Wright
- 2, Thomas Jefferson, Barack Obama, Sitting Bull
- 5, Abraham Lincoln, Sandra Day O'Connor, Muhammad Ali
- 10, Alexander Hamilton, Harriett Tubman, Jackie Robinson
- 20, Andrew Jackson, Franklin Delano Roosevelt, Susan B. Anthony
- 50, Ulysses S. Grant, Mark Twain, Sojourner Truth
- 100, Benjamin Franklin, Elvis Presley, Henry David Thoreau
- And, on the reverse side, the same idea for monuments and historic/famous landmarks. The $1 will no longer have the Great Seal and the Illuminati pyramid.
- 1, Washington Monument, The 1903 Flight at Kitty Hawk, Yellowstone National Park
- 2, Signing of the Declaration of Independence, Gettysburg Address, Jefferson Memorial
- 5, Lincoln Memorial, Supreme Court, Niagra Falls,
- 10, The Treasury, Statue of Liberty, Gateway Arch, Signing of the 1964 Civil Rights Act
- 20, The White House, Pike's Peak, Golden Gate Bridge, One World Trade Center
- 50, US Capitol, The Grand Canyon, Completion of the Transcontinental Railroad
- 100, Independence Hall, the HOLLYWOOD Sign, Denali, Seattle Space Needle
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on April 23, 2024, 01:18:38 PMMy thoughts:
- Eliminate all coins. Prices are rounded up or down to the nearest dollar
- Transition the Federal Reserve Notes to colored plastic with Braille for denominations
- Increase production of the $2 bill to match that of the $1 bill.
- Remove "In God We Trust" from all bills and replace it with, "Liberty and Justice for All."
- Have the following denominations:
1, 2, 5, 10, 15, 20, 50, 100,
- Feature different portraits on the obverse side of each bill, including historical and modern Americans:
- 1, George Washington, Martin Luther King, Jr., Orville and Wilbur Wright
- 2, Thomas Jefferson, Barack Obama, Sitting Bull
- 5, Abraham Lincoln, Sandra Day O'Connor, Muhammad Ali
- 10, Alexander Hamilton, Harriett Tubman, Jackie Robinson
- 20, Andrew Jackson, Franklin Delano Roosevelt, Susan B. Anthony
- 50, Ulysses S. Grant, Mark Twain, Sojourner Truth
- 100, Benjamin Franklin, Elvis Presley, Henry David Thoreau
- And, on the reverse side, the same idea for monuments and historic/famous landmarks. The $1 will no longer have the Great Seal and the Illuminati pyramid.
- 1, Washington Monument, The 1903 Flight at Kitty Hawk, Yellowstone National Park
- 2, Signing of the Declaration of Independence, Gettysburg Address, Jefferson Memorial
- 5, Lincoln Memorial, Supreme Court, Niagra Falls,
- 10, The Treasury, Statue of Liberty, Gateway Arch, Signing of the 1964 Civil Rights Act
- 20, The White House, Pike's Peak, Golden Gate Bridge, One World Trade Center
- 50, US Capitol, The Grand Canyon, Completion of the Transcontinental Railroad
- 100, Independence Hall, the HOLLYWOOD Sign, Denali, Seattle Space Needle
You are stopping half way
- Eliminate all coins and bills smaller than $100. Transactions are rounded up to the nearest $100 if done in cash
- No more change needed!
Quote from: kalvado on April 23, 2024, 02:18:20 PMQuote from: RobbieL2415 on April 23, 2024, 01:18:38 PMMy thoughts:
- Eliminate all coins. Prices are rounded up or down to the nearest dollar
- Transition the Federal Reserve Notes to colored plastic with Braille for denominations
- Increase production of the $2 bill to match that of the $1 bill.
- Remove "In God We Trust" from all bills and replace it with, "Liberty and Justice for All."
- Have the following denominations:
1, 2, 5, 10, 15, 20, 50, 100,
- Feature different portraits on the obverse side of each bill, including historical and modern Americans:
- 1, George Washington, Martin Luther King, Jr., Orville and Wilbur Wright
- 2, Thomas Jefferson, Barack Obama, Sitting Bull
- 5, Abraham Lincoln, Sandra Day O'Connor, Muhammad Ali
- 10, Alexander Hamilton, Harriett Tubman, Jackie Robinson
- 20, Andrew Jackson, Franklin Delano Roosevelt, Susan B. Anthony
- 50, Ulysses S. Grant, Mark Twain, Sojourner Truth
- 100, Benjamin Franklin, Elvis Presley, Henry David Thoreau
- And, on the reverse side, the same idea for monuments and historic/famous landmarks. The $1 will no longer have the Great Seal and the Illuminati pyramid.
- 1, Washington Monument, The 1903 Flight at Kitty Hawk, Yellowstone National Park
- 2, Signing of the Declaration of Independence, Gettysburg Address, Jefferson Memorial
- 5, Lincoln Memorial, Supreme Court, Niagra Falls,
- 10, The Treasury, Statue of Liberty, Gateway Arch, Signing of the 1964 Civil Rights Act
- 20, The White House, Pike's Peak, Golden Gate Bridge, One World Trade Center
- 50, US Capitol, The Grand Canyon, Completion of the Transcontinental Railroad
- 100, Independence Hall, the HOLLYWOOD Sign, Denali, Seattle Space Needle
You are stopping half way
- Eliminate all coins and bills smaller than $100. Transactions are rounded up to the nearest $100 if done in cash
- No more change needed!
$100 bills
3 cent pieces
(that's it)
Disadvantages:Can never make perfect change will frustrate perfectionists and the poor
Nobody will be happy, we're all in this misery forever
Advantages:No ability to make perfect change is a barometer of how nice/mean of a transaction's participants
Three is the Magic Number
Simplicity in tills
People can go around with money bags and feel rich
Nobody will be happy, we're all in this misery forever
Do away with the dollar bill and a U.S."loonie" will fly. That's the only change I would recommend, having handled British and Euro money in the past. The U.S. twice rolled out dollar coins and they flopped mightily.
Quote from: Road Hog on April 26, 2024, 02:32:28 AMDo away with the dollar bill and a U.S."loonie" will fly. That's the only change I would recommend, having handled British and Euro money in the past. The U.S. twice rolled out dollar coins and they flopped mightily.
I count more than 2 times, unless you are bundling.
Morgan dollar (silver)
Peace Dollar
Eisenhower dollar'
Susan B Anthony dollar
Sacagawea dollar
Presidental series
a few in-betweens, hard to document.
The silver dollars (Morgan and Peace) circulated. Currency existed, though not sure if it was that prevalent at the time.
Currency took over during the 36-year gap between dollar coin issuance, which also saw the elimination of precious metal (silver) from the coin. I have to believe that this gap doomed the relevance of a dollar coin (especially one that large) while a dollar bill circulated.
Even with the smaller coin, dollar bills still rule -- who wants a pile of dollar coins in their pocket? I see dollar coins mainly at train/subway stations. As long as dollar bills are still made, no dollar coin of any type will circulate widely. Any that are made now, Native American or American Innovation, are for collectors (not for circulation). And . . . the U.S. Mint still makes money making money.
Canada and Europe seem to do well without 1 and 2 dollar/euro bills.
Quote from: akotchi on April 26, 2024, 10:02:55 AMThe silver dollars (Morgan and Peace) circulated. Currency existed, though not sure if it was that prevalent at the time.
Currency took over during the 36-year gap between dollar coin issuance, which also saw the elimination of precious metal (silver) from the coin. I have to believe that this gap doomed the relevance of a dollar coin (especially one that large) while a dollar bill circulated.
Even with the smaller coin, dollar bills still rule -- who wants a pile of dollar coins in their pocket? I see dollar coins mainly at train/subway stations. As long as dollar bills are still made, no dollar coin of any type will circulate widely. Any that are made now, Native American or American Innovation, are for collectors (not for circulation). And . . . the U.S. Mint still makes money making money.
Canada and Europe seem to do well without 1 and 2 dollar/euro bills.
It's been a while since I used cash as a primary payment method... but back then coins were flowing both ways for me, and I would be OK with pretty large nomination coins as long as they were not too heavy. Carrying coins, except for a stray coin or two, isn't really a thing for me any more. Most wallets are cards-and-bills these days anyway.
Today, coins are mostly tossed into the bowl - and recently I dumped $120 worth of change into a change machine. If there were dollar coins in that mix... I would likely be less comfortable with parking that much money on a shelf, but what would that mean in reality? More frequent bank visits or less cash overall?
I am not sure what I would do if I got $1-2-3 into that bowl instead of 25-50 cents each time I buy coffee for cash.
Quote from: kalvado on April 26, 2024, 12:53:14 PMQuote from: akotchi on April 26, 2024, 10:02:55 AMThe silver dollars (Morgan and Peace) circulated. Currency existed, though not sure if it was that prevalent at the time.
Currency took over during the 36-year gap between dollar coin issuance, which also saw the elimination of precious metal (silver) from the coin. I have to believe that this gap doomed the relevance of a dollar coin (especially one that large) while a dollar bill circulated.
Even with the smaller coin, dollar bills still rule -- who wants a pile of dollar coins in their pocket? I see dollar coins mainly at train/subway stations. As long as dollar bills are still made, no dollar coin of any type will circulate widely. Any that are made now, Native American or American Innovation, are for collectors (not for circulation). And . . . the U.S. Mint still makes money making money.
Canada and Europe seem to do well without 1 and 2 dollar/euro bills.
It's been a while since I used cash as a primary payment method... but back then coins were flowing both ways for me, and I would be OK with pretty large nomination coins as long as they were not too heavy. Carrying coins, except for a stray coin or two, isn't really a thing for me any more. Most wallets are cards-and-bills these days anyway.
Today, coins are mostly tossed into the bowl - and recently I dumped $120 worth of change into a change machine. If there were dollar coins in that mix... I would likely be less comfortable with parking that much money on a shelf, but what would that mean in reality? More frequent bank visits or less cash overall?
I am not sure what I would do if I got $1-2-3 into that bowl instead of 25-50 cents each time I buy coffee for cash.
That is the full visible effect of inflation (100:1 to 120:1 between 1924 and now). A century ago, nearly all everyday commerce was in coins ONLY. Carrying a single $1 banknote around then was like carrying at least a C-note now. And yet, in the 1920s, we normally used coins of 1¢, 5¢, 10¢, 25¢ and 50¢. a half dollar would buy a decent restaurant meal for the entire family.
Mike
Mike
Quote from: mgk920 on April 26, 2024, 01:48:41 PMA century ago, nearly all everyday commerce was in coins ONLY. Carrying a single $1 banknote around then was like carrying at least a C-note now. And yet, in the 1920s, we normally used coins of 1¢, 5¢, 10¢, 25¢ and 50¢. a half dollar would buy a decent restaurant meal for the entire family.
Mike
Mike
Probably the most important missing piece for me.
And then you are basically saying that rounding things to the nearest $1 would be an equivalent of ol'good times? Makes at least some sense...