From KTXS (ABC):
Is it actually legal to go 5 mph over the speed limit? Texas DPS clarifies the laws of the roadQuoteAccording to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, speeding is one of the most broken laws in America. There are roughly 112,000 speeding tickets issued every day.
Speeding has harsh consequences and most Texas drivers are not aware that they are not allowed to drive 5 miles per hour over the speed limit.
FULL ARTICLE HERE (https://markholtz.info/2r7)
I'll speed at times when I'm in Michigan and keep it at 5 over and never have had a problem but in other states I'll do more along the lines of the speed limit.
I remember being in Ohio about 2 years ago, I was driving home from Cincinnati and was in the stretch where I-75 is four laned between Troy and Findlay and passed a state cop doing 80 mph, the cop did nothing about it and I kept driving. Now I don't know or really even think that I'd get away with that every time. I do 80 in Michigan and have never had a problem.
However, as it relates to restrictions against one's driving privileges or driver's license...
Quote from: Kansas Statutes
Chapter 8 – Automobiles and Other Vehicles
Article 15 – Uniform Act Regulating Traffic; Rules of the Road
8-1560c – Certain violations of maximum speed limits not construed as moving traffic violations.
(a) Any conviction or forfeiture of bail or bond for violating a maximum posted or authorized speed limit of 30 miles per hour or more but not exceeding 54 miles per hour on any highway, by not more than six miles per hour, shall not be construed as a moving traffic violation for the purpose of K.S.A. 8-255, and amendments thereto.
(b) Any conviction or forfeiture of bail or bond for violating the maximum posted or authorized speed limit of 55 miles per hour or more but not exceeding 75 miles per hour on any highway, by not more than 10 miles per hour, shall not be construed as a moving traffic violation for the purpose of K.S.A. 8-255, and amendments thereto.
And, as it relates to one's insurance rates...
Quote from: Kansas Statutes
Chapter 8 – Automobiles and Other Vehicles
Article 15 – Uniform Act Regulating Traffic; Rules of the Road
8-1560d – Certain violations of maximum speed limits not public record; not to be considered for liability insurance.
Convictions for violating a maximum posted speed limit of 55 miles per hour or more but not exceeding 75 miles per hour, by not more than 10 miles per hour in excess of such maximum speed limit, or a maximum posted speed limit of 30 miles per hour or more but not exceeding 54 miles per hour, by not more than six miles per hour in excess of such maximum speed limit, shall not be reported by the division and shall not be considered by any insurance company in determining the rate charged for any automobile liability insurance policy or whether to cancel any such policy under the provisions of subsection (4)(c)(7) of K.S.A. 40-277, and amendments thereto.
So, while it's technically illegal to go 5 over the limit in Kansas, doing so is explicitly not considered a moving violation and cannot be reported to your insurance company.
Whether it is or not I blow by CHP officers doing 10 MPH over all the time. In general speeding seems to not be a very high priority in California. More than 5 MPH over in Florida or Arizona was a different story and asking for trouble.
Btw, I was told by a cop (a Michigan State Trooper) that they don't go after anyone that is driving within reason. He also told me it's about 7 or 8 mph over the limit before they'll come after you. But this must not apply on freeways because he told me that they are instructed to start pulling people over at 85 mph. This was a trooper from the Roscommon post.
The urban legend was that police speed detection tools have a variance window of +/- 5 MPH which is why it was believed driving +5 was accepted, however if that was true the technology has improved where cops can now get a pretty accurate reading within 1-2 NPH. The reason you probably won't get stopped for going only a few over (unless it's being used for a pretext stop, or a bored small town cop raising a few bucks for the local VFW fund) is because it just makes the cop and his department look petty and draconian.
Nothing but a myth or urban legend. I've heard the same be said of construction zones, that it's a 10 mph automatic reduction. Not true there either.
Of course, the Sargent is going to say they'll give you 5 mph leeway, but it's not a law. What he isn't saying is that he is laughing at the 5 mph...depending on the road and jurisdiction, it may be 10 mph, 15 mph or higher. At least in my experiences, Jersey State Troopers often allow up to 19 over in most 55 zones on highways, and 14 mph over in 65 mph zones. I can drive from here to Florida and I've never had an issue driving at 78 mph in 75 and 70 zones.
So, while 5 mph over isn't lawfully permitted, no cop is going to waste their time with that unless the driver is being obnoxious about something else.
Like just about any other thread about whether something is "legal," the fallacy here is assuming that there is one universal answer. The question is whether the speed limit is absolute or prima facie. If the speed limit is absolute, then it is illegal to exceed it. If it's prima facie, it's not necessarily illegal, but the motorist may have the burden of proving that his speed was reasonable and prudent under the conditions.
A further issue is, of course, that just because something is "illegal" doesn't mean you'll necessarily get ticketed for it. "Can" you be ticketed for going 56 mph in a 55-mph zone in a state with absolute speed limits? Yes. "Will" you be? Usually not. (This is sort of like the expression teachers often use to respond to a question about whether a student "can" do something, like "can I use the restroom"–"You can but you may not.")
The most draconian speed enforcement I know of was in Australia–speed cameras in Victoria used to issue tickets for as little as 3 km/h over the limit. I believe that has been changed, due in no small part to federal standards there allowing for 10% speedometer error.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on June 20, 2023, 02:37:09 PM
So, while 5 mph over isn't lawfully permitted, no cop is going to waste their time with that unless the driver is being obnoxious about something else.
The boldfaced is so often the key principle, and it often determines who gets pulled over. The guy who's speeding but who is simply minding his own business is probably less likely to get pulled over than the guy who's weaving in and out, tailgating, etc.
It's explicitly legal in a few northwestern states as long as you're passing.
Back in the day I used to often drive through a tiny municipality in South St Louis County called Bella Villa (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bella_Villa,_Missouri). They were notorious for ticketing anyone who drove anything over the speed limit. Bayless was the quickest road between Lemay Ferry Rd and I-55 and used by almost all my coworkers who lived in South County or Jefferson County. The speed limit was 35 mph and they would give tickets out for driving 36 mph; this happened to a couple of coworkers. Missouri put a stop to municipalities getting most of their revenue from tickets about the same time as our Broadway office closed permanently due to the 1993 Mississippi flood (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Flood_of_1993) so that put a stop to their revenue stream but they still will ticket those going even 5 mph over. Fortunately, the city extended River Des Peres Blvd to Broadway so Bayless can easily be avoided by anyone going to the casino that now occupies our former site.
I go 5 over pretty much everywhere, because otherwise you'll be pushed off the road by everyone else. Only places I stick to the limit or go under is if there are a lot of pedestrians around
In my experience in New England, the cops here really don’t care as long as you’re going with the average flow of traffic. I regularly do 75-80 on some of the less busy Interstates such as I-89 or I-93 in New Hampshire and never have issues. However, the cops in New York seem to be more strict as when I drove the New York Thruway, I saw cops doing speed enforcement everywhere and saw one guy get busted for doing 90.
Related question: if I'm going the speed limit on a certain road but the flow of traffic is 10-20 mph higher, could a cop theoretically ticket me for causing an obstruction in the flow of traffic, even if I'm only sitting in the slow lane? Or if I get rear-ended in the slow lane by someone moving a lot faster at the regular flow of traffic's speed, would it be inaccurate to say that I would at least be partially to blame for the accident because I created an obstacle?
https://www.penndot.pa.gov/TravelInPA/Safety/TrafficSafetyAndDriverTopics/Documents/TIPP-Fine-Card.pdf In Pennsylvania, police only issue fines if going more than 10 mph over the speed limit when 55 mph or lower and if more than 5 mph over if the speed limit is 65 or 70 mph
Quote from: CoreySamson on June 20, 2023, 05:56:14 PM
Related question: if I'm going the speed limit on a certain road but the flow of traffic is 10-20 mph higher, could a cop theoretically ticket me for causing an obstruction in the flow of traffic, even if I'm only sitting in the slow lane? Or if I get rear-ended in the slow lane by someone moving a lot faster at the regular flow of traffic's speed, would it be inaccurate to say that I would at least be partially to blame for the accident because I created an obstacle?
According to Texas state law, you could only be cited if your slower speed made the passage of other traffic "unreasonably inconvenient or hazardous" (Penal Code § 42.03). I seriously doubt that going the speed limit would fall under that condition. But if you were going, say, 45 mph under the limit, then you might have something to worry about.
One reason a cop may choose not to ticket someone going less than 5 mph over the limit has to do with the imprecision of the speed measuring tools at the officer's disposal. While, yes, theoretically a radar gun is more precise than that, it has to be properly calibrated to do so. So if you pull someone for going 1 mph over the limit, someone bound and determined to plead Not Guilty can really ruin an officer's week by subpoenaing calibration records, etc.
And that presupposes it's even possible to convict someone on 1 mph. To find someone guilty of a crime, one needs proof beyond a reasonable doubt, and I think any judge or jury on earth would have a reasonable doubt that someone was really going 1 mph over the limit.
Either way, the whole thing becomes a waste of the officer's time. Much easier to just let 66 in a 65 go and wait for the inevitable person to blowing past at 80 mph to turn up.
This might have to do with it being around rivalry week for the Michigan Wolverines and Ohio State Buckeyes. But several years ago Frank Beckmann was Michigan's play by play radio announcer and had a talk show on WJR radio in Detroit so he was pretty well known in the area. He got a ticket in Ohio for going 56 in a 55. I don't know much about the story but I remember that.
Quote from: Dough4872 on June 20, 2023, 06:00:19 PM
https://www.penndot.pa.gov/TravelInPA/Safety/TrafficSafetyAndDriverTopics/Documents/TIPP-Fine-Card.pdf In Pennsylvania, police only issue fines if going more than 10 mph over the speed limit when 55 mph or lower and if more than 5 mph over if the speed limit is 65 or 70 mph
Interesting. I wonder what they do if a work zone causes a 70 mph zone to be reduced to a 60 mph one (yes, it does happen (https://nysroads.com/photos.php?route=i380&state=PA&file=101_7902.JPG)).
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 20, 2023, 06:09:14 PM
One reason a cop may choose not to ticket someone going less than 5 mph over the limit has to do with the imprecision of the speed measuring tools at the officer's disposal. While, yes, theoretically a radar gun is more precise than that, it has to be properly calibrated to do so. So if you pull someone for going 1 mph over the limit, someone bound and determined to plead Not Guilty can really ruin an officer's week by subpoenaing calibration records, etc.
And that presupposes it's even possible to convict someone on 1 mph. To find someone guilty of a crime, one needs proof beyond a reasonable doubt, and I think any judge or jury on earth would have a reasonable doubt that someone was really going 1 mph over the limit.
Either way, the whole thing becomes a waste of the officer's time. Much easier to just let 66 in a 65 go and wait for the inevitable person to blowing past at 80 mph to turn up.
Not to mention that
cars aren't precisely calibrated, either. My Civic is pretty darn close, but I've noticed that the DOT Prius is usually going 3-4 mph slower than the number shown on the speedometer. My Accord was similar; the number on the speedometer was ~2 mph faster than what I was actually going.
Quote from: vdeane on June 20, 2023, 09:31:02 PM
I've noticed that the DOT Prius is usually going 3-4 mph slower than the number shown on the speedometer. My Accord was similar; the number on the speedometer was ~2 mph faster than what I was actually going.
How do you know the exact speed you were actually going?
Quote from: kphoger on June 20, 2023, 09:36:52 PM
Quote from: vdeane on June 20, 2023, 09:31:02 PM
I've noticed that the DOT Prius is usually going 3-4 mph slower than the number shown on the speedometer. My Accord was similar; the number on the speedometer was ~2 mph faster than what I was actually going.
How do you know the exact speed you were actually going?
With my Accord and Civic, I know the difference between them thanks to a "your speed" sign that used to exist on a road near where I grew up. I know the Civic because of comparisons to other "your speed" signs as well as timing how long it takes me to travel distances on the Thruway that "should" take an hour given my speed (this is where my rigid behavior with speed limits actually provides a benefit other than satisfying my Aspergian need for consistency; since I always go the same speed in 65 zones unless traffic/weather forces otherwise, I need only see if I actually go 72 miles in one hour, or 36 miles in a half hour). With the DOT Prius, I did a Thruway test as well when coming back from the last conference I went to, and there's that time my coworker had Google Maps open and we were able to read the speed registered on the GPS.
Quote from: CoreySamson on June 20, 2023, 05:56:14 PM
Related question: if I'm going the speed limit on a certain road but the flow of traffic is 10-20 mph higher, could a cop theoretically ticket me for causing an obstruction in the flow of traffic, even if I'm only sitting in the slow lane? Or if I get rear-ended in the slow lane by someone moving a lot faster at the regular flow of traffic's speed, would it be inaccurate to say that I would at least be partially to blame for the accident because I created an obstacle?
I remember hearing this theoretical question in the past. The basic answer is no, especially driving in the right lane. (Queue the people that claim they know a friend who got a ticket. Did you see a copy of the ticket? Oh, they paid it and threw it out. Right...)
In reality, not everyone is doing 10 - 20 mph over the limit. It may sure seem like it, but overall, if someone is going 10 - 20 over, chances are they're in the left lane speeding along with traffic in that lane, passing slower traffic in the center & right lanes. Which means, that other traffic isn't going 10 - 20 over. While I'm not saying it hasn't happened, if someone does the speed limit in the right lane, they're not going to be forced off the road. There truly are some drivers that adhere to the limit, or are in a work van or truck that is going about the limit.
In Nevada, on highways with a posted speed limit of 60 mph or higher, the fine is $25 and the violation is not recorded on a driver's record or deemed a "moving traffic violation" if:
1. It's during daylight hours;
2. It's outside the urban areas of Las Vegas and Reno or very limited other locations in Clark and Washoe Counties;
3. The driver is not exceeding a 60 or 65 mph speed limit by more than 10 mph, or is not exceeding a 70, 75 or 80 speed limit by more than 5 mph.
So exceeding the speed limit is not "legal" but if you are willing to treat a highway like that as a $25 toll road, there is no further penalty.
Full text of the law is Nevada Revised Statutes 484B.617 (https://www.leg.state.nv.us/nrs/NRS-484B.html#NRS484BSec617). Clark and Washoe Counties, which include Las Vegas and Reno respectively, are the only two counties in the state whose population exceeds 100K.
Ever since I got pulled over near Kerrville, TX back in 2008 for going 83 MPH on an 80 zone (+3 MPH over), I've been nervous and reluctant to push the pointer past the limit (even though I've been tempted to several times) ever since then. Luckily I wasn't administered a citation, but I was reprimanded by the local police for driving "way too dangerously" and was given a stern warning to slow down. I was so shaken up by his enraged yelling at me that I didn't let my car anywhere near the posted limit the rest of the drive back home.
I remember in 1993 in Pennsylvania there were pick your fine signs and they started at 1 MPH over
It's legal unless the cop has it out for you, or people who look like you.
My sorry butt got pulled over in small-town Idaho for going 38 in a 35 that was about to become a 45.
Quote from: Flint1979 on June 20, 2023, 08:08:52 PM
This might have to do with it being around rivalry week for the Michigan Wolverines and Ohio State Buckeyes. But several years ago Frank Beckmann was Michigan's play by play radio announcer and had a talk show on WJR radio in Detroit so he was pretty well known in the area. He got a ticket in Ohio for going 56 in a 55. I don't know much about the story but I remember that.
It's been a long-standing (conspiracy?) theory that cars with MI plates shouldn't speed at all in OH, lest they be pulled over.
Quote from: jgb191 on June 21, 2023, 12:39:24 AM
Ever since I got pulled over near Kerrville, TX back in 2008 for going 83 MPH on an 80 zone (+3 MPH over), I've been nervous and reluctant to push the pointer past the limit (even though I've been tempted to several times) ever since then. Luckily I wasn't administered a citation, but I was reprimanded by the local police for driving "way too dangerously" and was given a stern warning to slow down. I was so shaken up by his enraged yelling at me that I didn't let my car anywhere near the posted limit the rest of the drive back home.
The most I got yelled at by a cop was on 95 in Bucks County PA. Cop got on the highway and I was behind him, closely, doing about 16 over the limit. He merged out of my way and signaled me to pull over. He walked up to me irate, yelling why would I be tailgating a cop in a fully marked cop car doing 71 in a 55. He gave me a ticket. I took it to court mostly to plead it down to a no-point violation. It was several months later and he had been promoted by then. Didn't remember me, the speeding or following too closely. He, the procescuter and judge were all in a good mood. They were fine giving me a plea bargain, which was "failure to sign registration"...technically an impossible task for me since my state doesn't have registrations we sign. But, good enough.
None of that scared me to stop speeding though.
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 20, 2023, 06:09:14 PM
.... To find someone guilty of a crime, one needs proof beyond a reasonable doubt, and I think any judge or jury on earth would have a reasonable doubt that someone was really going 1 mph over the limit.
....
This sort of thing is why many, probably most (maybe all, I don't know), states don't define minor speeding as a criminal offense. They want to avoid being required to provide the full range of Sixth Amendment protections.
Quote
According to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, speeding is one of the most broken laws in America.
And yet driving on fully limited access roads is among the most safe things one can do. It is almost as if, people know that the speed limits are set for revenue, and not safety, purposes and they choose to drive safe and fast.
Quote from: vdeane on June 20, 2023, 09:46:31 PM
Quote from: kphoger on June 20, 2023, 09:36:52 PM
Quote from: vdeane on June 20, 2023, 09:31:02 PM
I've noticed that the DOT Prius is usually going 3-4 mph slower than the number shown on the speedometer. My Accord was similar; the number on the speedometer was ~2 mph faster than what I was actually going.
How do you know the exact speed you were actually going?
With my Accord and Civic, I know the difference between them thanks to a "your speed" sign that used to exist on a road near where I grew up. I know the Civic because of comparisons to other "your speed" signs as well as timing how long it takes me to travel distances on the Thruway that "should" take an hour given my speed (this is where my rigid behavior with speed limits actually provides a benefit other than satisfying my Aspergian need for consistency; since I always go the same speed in 65 zones unless traffic/weather forces otherwise, I need only see if I actually go 72 miles in one hour, or 36 miles in a half hour). With the DOT Prius, I did a Thruway test as well when coming back from the last conference I went to, and there's that time my coworker had Google Maps open and we were able to read the speed registered on the GPS.
I might question the accuracy of a
single "your speed" sign simply because there's no way to verify that it was properly calibrated. While of course one also can't know whether multiple such signs were properly calibrated, if they all produce the same reading I'll rely on them because it's statistically very unlikely that all of them are miscalibrated
and that all of them are miscalibrated by the same amount. Like you, I've looked at the readings from multiple such signs to satisfy myself that the speed the speedometer needle is indicating is accurate.
I'm less rigid than you are about the speed limits, but one thing I figure is that if I'm going 65 mph on the Beltway (speed limit is 55 except in the HO/T lanes), or 70 mph in a 70-mph zone, and the majority of the traffic is passing me, then my speedometer is probably reasonably accurate.
Quote from: GaryV on June 21, 2023, 06:38:48 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on June 20, 2023, 08:08:52 PM
This might have to do with it being around rivalry week for the Michigan Wolverines and Ohio State Buckeyes. But several years ago Frank Beckmann was Michigan's play by play radio announcer and had a talk show on WJR radio in Detroit so he was pretty well known in the area. He got a ticket in Ohio for going 56 in a 55. I don't know much about the story but I remember that.
It's been a long-standing (conspiracy?) theory that cars with MI plates shouldn't speed at all in OH, lest they be pulled over.
And I've heard another one that cops are likelier to give tickets to out-of-state drivers, since they probably won't be bothered to come back and fight the ticket in court.
Quote from: Bruce on June 21, 2023, 02:44:02 AM
It's legal unless the cop has it out for you, or people who look like you.
My sorry butt got pulled over in small-town Idaho for going 38 in a 35 that was about to become a 45.
I used to know a guy who was literally chased by another vehicle all the way across Idaho. He was as white as can be, but his vehicle had National Guard license plates. His impression was that they were the "
WE'RE the national guard around here" type.
Quote from: abefroman329 on June 21, 2023, 09:30:16 AM
And I've heard another one that cops are likelier to give tickets to out-of-state drivers, since they probably won't be bothered to come back and fight the ticket in court.
I grew up close to the Kansas—Nebraska state line, and it was common knowledge that Nebraska cops were more likely to ticked drivers with Kansas tags. The presumed reason is that it was free money to the state: the revenue earned from the ticket did not come from a Nebraskan's pocket.
Quote from: SP Cook on June 21, 2023, 08:49:29 AM
Quote
According to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, speeding is one of the most broken laws in America.
And yet driving on fully limited access roads is among the most safe things one can do. It is almost as if, people know that the speed limits are set for revenue, and not safety, purposes and they choose to drive safe and fast.
There is a design speed and a posted speed. The design speed is used to determine the engineering of the highway/roadway. Whenever there's a condition that causes the rosd to drop below the design speed, such as a curve, an advisory speed is posted.
The posted speed limit is normally 5 or 10 mph below the design speed. So automatically, traffic is going to feel comfortable going that 5 or 10 over because that was the actual speed the road was designed for. In some cases, the posted speed is the design speed, or above it, so exceptions do occur.
I still think the overwhelming majority of comments in this thread (including several of my own) don't address the question in the original post: "Is it actually legal to go 5 mph over the speed limit?" The question of whether a cop will actually bother to pull you over for it is a completely separate question from whether it's legal. There are plenty of other things in the same category–failing to use your blinker, failing to turn on your headlights in the rain, failing to stop behind the line at a red light, etc.
Quote from: 1995hoo on June 21, 2023, 11:17:38 AM
I still think the overwhelming majority of comments in this thread (including several of my own) don't address the question in the original post: "Is it actually legal to go 5 mph over the speed limit?" The question of whether a cop will actually bother to pull you over for it is a completely separate question from whether it's legal. There are plenty of other things in the same category–failing to use your blinker, failing to turn on your headlights in the rain, failing to stop behind the line at a red light, etc.
Correct.
Two of us have mentioned that, at least in Kansas and Nevada, driving 5 mph over the posted limit is not considered a moving violation. So, while it is indeed illegal, it's in the same realm of infractions as a parking infraction or driving with a broken taillight.
The only place where I don't feel comfortable driving 5 mph over the limit is Virginia, because of their radar detector ban.
Quote from: 1995hoo on June 21, 2023, 11:17:38 AM
I still think the overwhelming majority of comments in this thread (including several of my own) don't address the question in the original post: "Is it actually legal to go 5 mph over the speed limit?" The question of whether a cop will actually bother to pull you over for it is a completely separate question from whether it's legal. There are plenty of other things in the same category–failing to use your blinker, failing to turn on your headlights in the rain, failing to stop behind the line at a red light, etc.
having an air freshener hanging from your rearview mirror, having a clear plastic cover over your license plate, the list goes on and on.
My cousin is an Indiana State Trooper. He routinely drives 10-15 mph over the limit and you aren't getting pulled over unless you're dumb enough to pass him.
Quote from: jgb191 on June 21, 2023, 12:39:24 AM
Ever since I got pulled over near Kerrville, TX back in 2008 for going 83 MPH on an 80 zone (+3 MPH over), I've been nervous and reluctant to push the pointer past the limit (even though I've been tempted to several times) ever since then. Luckily I wasn't administered a citation, but I was reprimanded by the local police for driving "way too dangerously" and was given a stern warning to slow down. I was so shaken up by his enraged yelling at me that I didn't let my car anywhere near the posted limit the rest of the drive back home.
I've heard 80 zones are a different animal, thar almost universally anywhere that has them cops will be quick to stop you for anything over it.
Quote from: abefroman329 on June 21, 2023, 09:30:16 AM
Quote from: GaryV on June 21, 2023, 06:38:48 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on June 20, 2023, 08:08:52 PM
This might have to do with it being around rivalry week for the Michigan Wolverines and Ohio State Buckeyes. But several years ago Frank Beckmann was Michigan's play by play radio announcer and had a talk show on WJR radio in Detroit so he was pretty well known in the area. He got a ticket in Ohio for going 56 in a 55. I don't know much about the story but I remember that.
It's been a long-standing (conspiracy?) theory that cars with MI plates shouldn't speed at all in OH, lest they be pulled over.
And I've heard another one that cops are likelier to give tickets to out-of-state drivers, since they probably won't be bothered to come back and fight the ticket in court.
While speeding was not why I was stopped in either case, after my last two times being pulled over it's hard for me to believe my MN plates were *not* the primary reason for the police interest in me, and both stops were pretty clearly pretext stops to harass me for illegal contraband movements. One was on I-70 in Kansas in 2019 where that officer apparently realized there was nothing going on quickly and with a friendly warning to be careful he let me go. Unfortunately the ones who stopped me in Nebraska back in April were much more hostile and aggressive, bringing a K-9 to get into my car because I refused consent to search. I'm still bitter about it.
Quote from: GaryV on June 21, 2023, 06:38:48 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on June 20, 2023, 08:08:52 PM
This might have to do with it being around rivalry week for the Michigan Wolverines and Ohio State Buckeyes. But several years ago Frank Beckmann was Michigan's play by play radio announcer and had a talk show on WJR radio in Detroit so he was pretty well known in the area. He got a ticket in Ohio for going 56 in a 55. I don't know much about the story but I remember that.
It's been a long-standing (conspiracy?) theory that cars with MI plates shouldn't speed at all in OH, lest they be pulled over.
I've always been fine in Ohio.
Quote from: hbelkins on June 21, 2023, 11:43:09 AM
The only place where I don't feel comfortable driving 5 mph over the limit is Virginia, because of their radar detector ban.
That and they consider 15 over the limit to be reckless driving.
Quote from: Flint1979 on June 21, 2023, 01:18:39 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on June 21, 2023, 11:43:09 AM
The only place where I don't feel comfortable driving 5 mph over the limit is Virginia, because of their radar detector ban.
That and they consider 15 over the limit to be reckless driving.
Interesting. I got pulled over in 2001 on US 13 southbound just north of the CBBT entrance, for supposedly going 74 in a 55. The trooper claimed that's what his speedometer said, and he was pacing me. I had been cruising around 70 and I didn't think I was going quite so fast. (He probably saw the North Carolina license plate and figured I couldn't fight such a ticket.) Anyway, reckless driving didn't come up in the conversation or on the ticket.
Quote from: elsmere241 on June 21, 2023, 01:27:09 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on June 21, 2023, 01:18:39 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on June 21, 2023, 11:43:09 AM
The only place where I don't feel comfortable driving 5 mph over the limit is Virginia, because of their radar detector ban.
That and they consider 15 over the limit to be reckless driving.
Interesting. I got pulled over in 2001 on US 13 southbound just north of the CBBT entrance, for supposedly going 74 in a 55. The trooper claimed that's what his speedometer said, and he was pacing me. I had been cruising around 70 and I didn't think I was going quite so fast. (He probably saw the North Carolina license plate and figured I couldn't fight such a ticket.) Anyway, reckless driving didn't come up in the conversation or on the ticket.
Flint1979 oversimplified. The statute regarding reckless driving due to speed provides that exceeding the posted speed limit by more than 20 mph, or exceeding 85 mph regardless of the posted speed limit, is grounds for a reckless driving ticket. (Until very recently, the latter part was exceeding 80 mph regardless of the posted speed limit; the statute was amended either last year or the year before.) So 74 in a 55 would not be grounds for a reckless if the sole basis is speed.
That statute is not the only basis for a reckless driving ticket, though. If it were a snowy day and the road were unplowed and you were bombing along at 70 in a 55 zone, a cop might write you a reckless ticket if there is other traffic around and everyone else is going slower than you are.
Quote from: 1995hoo on June 21, 2023, 01:37:20 PM
Quote from: elsmere241 on June 21, 2023, 01:27:09 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on June 21, 2023, 01:18:39 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on June 21, 2023, 11:43:09 AM
The only place where I don't feel comfortable driving 5 mph over the limit is Virginia, because of their radar detector ban.
That and they consider 15 over the limit to be reckless driving.
Interesting. I got pulled over in 2001 on US 13 southbound just north of the CBBT entrance, for supposedly going 74 in a 55. The trooper claimed that's what his speedometer said, and he was pacing me. I had been cruising around 70 and I didn't think I was going quite so fast. (He probably saw the North Carolina license plate and figured I couldn't fight such a ticket.) Anyway, reckless driving didn't come up in the conversation or on the ticket.
Flint1979 oversimplified. The statute regarding reckless driving due to speed provides that exceeding the posted speed limit by more than 20 mph, or exceeding 85 mph regardless of the posted speed limit, is grounds for a reckless driving ticket. (Until very recently, the latter part was exceeding 80 mph regardless of the posted speed limit; the statute was amended either last year or the year before.) So 74 in a 55 would not be grounds for a reckless if the sole basis is speed.
That statute is not the only basis for a reckless driving ticket, though. If it were a snowy day and the road were unplowed and you were bombing along at 70 in a 55 zone, a cop might write you a reckless ticket if there is other traffic around and everyone else is going slower than you are.
I personally know a Saginaw County Sheriff here in Michigan and he told me once that they really only look for people standing out. Like you said with the snowy day example, if the speed limit is 70 and everyone is driving 80 but you get someone going 100 or so through there the guy going 100 is going to stand out but the people going 80 won't.
Funny, just yesterday I was driving with a friend between Dayton & Cincinnati, and we had this conversation. Our conclusion, based purely on observation this day and others, is that speeding alone (at least up to 10 miles over) is not likely to get you pulled over. At the time, I was going 73 in a 65 zone and passed two cops. What will get you pulled over is weaving, tailgating, etc.
I have heard the rumors about Ohio cops pulling over Michigan drivers at a higher rate than other drivers. Not sure if it's true, but my sense is that, in any state, an out-of-state driver is more likely to be pulled over than an in-state driver. I have no concrete evidence of this, other than being observant over the 50+ years I have been driving.
My rule of thumb is to stick to 10% of the speed limit when going over. For a 60 mph freeway, I'd set my cruise control around 66, and be able to generally keep up with the flow of traffic. For a city street, I'd stick more closely to the limit, since going 1 or 2 mph faster is utterly pointless.
Seriously the most pulled over out of state vehicles I see have Illinois license plates.
Quote from: Flint1979 on June 21, 2023, 10:41:27 PM
Seriously the most pulled over out of state vehicles I see have Illinois license plates.
Probably because they honk so much.
Quote from: Flint1979 on June 21, 2023, 10:41:27 PM
Seriously the most pulled over out of state vehicles I see have Illinois license plates.
It's probably not just speed. They're called FIBs, FIP, and FISH for a reason.
Bolingbrook, Illinois used to have standing orders that no one was to be pulled over for 10 mph over the limit. Not sure if these orders still exist, but they did under the previous long-term mayor.
Quote from: 1 on June 20, 2023, 02:37:47 PM
It's explicitly legal in a few northwestern states as long as you're passing.
Nobody seemed to notice that I posted this.
Does anyone know exactly which states this applies to?
Also, why is this in off-topic?
Quote from: Brandon on June 22, 2023, 06:42:50 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on June 21, 2023, 10:41:27 PM
Seriously the most pulled over out of state vehicles I see have Illinois license plates.
It's probably not just speed. They're called FIBs, FIP, and FISH for a reason.
You forgot FISHTABs
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on June 21, 2023, 12:35:04 PM
While speeding was not why I was stopped in either case, after my last two times being pulled over it's hard for me to believe my MN plates were *not* the primary reason for the police interest in me, and both stops were pretty clearly pretext stops to harass me for illegal contraband movements. One was on I-70 in Kansas in 2019 where that officer apparently realized there was nothing going on quickly and with a friendly warning to be careful he let me go. Unfortunately the ones who stopped me in Nebraska back in April were much more hostile and aggressive, bringing a K-9 to get into my car because I refused consent to search. I'm still bitter about it.
This has always concerned me. What's the probable cause for them bringing in the dog? Is lack of consent to search considered probable cause? If it is, then there is really no right of refusal in practical terms.
"Can we search your car?"
"No."
"Well, we're going to anyway. We'll going to bring the canine unit to search your car."
Now, my understanding is that if the dog hits on something, that generates probable cause. But it seems to me that deployment of the dog in and of itself is a search that would require consent.
Quote from: hbelkins on June 22, 2023, 11:59:07 AMWhat's the probable cause for them bringing in the dog?
"I smelled marijuana, but I couldn't determine the source based on an visual search." Did the cop actually smell marijuana? Who knows, but the cop and their buddies will happily perjure themselves if they didn't.
Seriously, there's a whole universe of cops acting like they're above the law that has nothing to do with radar detectors or Virginia; you should learn about it sometime.
Quote from: 1 on June 22, 2023, 08:56:31 AM
Quote from: 1 on June 20, 2023, 02:37:47 PM
It's explicitly legal in a few northwestern states as long as you're passing.
Nobody seemed to notice that I posted this.
Does anyone know exactly which states this applies to?
Also, why is this in off-topic?
I noticed. But I only searched the UVC and a couple of other states, so I don't have the answer to your question.
Quote from: 1 on June 20, 2023, 02:37:47 PMIt's explicitly legal in a few northwestern states as long as you're passing.
I could be wrong, but I think this only applies to two-lane highways, where in order to pass, you have to go in the oncoming lane–legally, when there are broken lines in the middle. On a highway/freeway where all lanes are going the same way in their respective directions–south/north and west/east–there's nothing for you to hurry for while passing.
Quote from: Amaury on June 22, 2023, 02:39:14 PM
Quote from: 1 on June 20, 2023, 02:37:47 PM
It's explicitly legal in a few northwestern states as long as you're passing.
I could be wrong, but I think this only applies to two-lane highways, where in order to pass, you have to go in the oncoming lane–legally, when there are broken lines in the middle. On a highway/freeway where all lanes are going the same way in their respective directions–south/north and west/east–there's nothing for you to hurry for while passing.
That would obviously depend on the exact wording of the law. I still haven't found a state with a carve-out in the vehicle code for overtaking, but that doesn't mean there isn't one or more.
Did you check Washington? I seem to remember that being one of them, plus Amaury is from Washington.
Quote from: 1 on June 22, 2023, 03:07:10 PM
Did you check Washington? I seem to remember that being one of them, plus Amaury is from Washington.
You are correct.
Quote from: Revised Code of Washington
Title 46 – Motor Vehicles
Chapter 46.61 – Rules of the Road
RCW 46.61.400 – Basic rule and maximum limits
(1) No person shall drive a vehicle on a highway at a speed greater than is reasonable and prudent under the conditions and having regard to the actual and potential hazards then existing. In every event speed shall be so controlled as may be necessary to avoid colliding with any person, vehicle or other conveyance on or entering the highway in compliance with legal requirements and the duty of all persons to use due care.
[...]
Quote from: Revised Code of Washington
Title 46 – Motor Vehicles
Chapter 46.61 – Rules of the Road
RCW 46.61.465 – Exceeding speed limit evidence of reckless driving
The unlawful operation of a vehicle in excess of the maximum lawful speeds provided in this chapter at the point of operation and under the circumstances described shall be prima facie evidence of the operation of a motor vehicle in a reckless manner by the operator thereof.
Quote from: Revised Code of Washington
Title 46 – Motor Vehicles
Chapter 46.61 – Rules of the Road
RCW 46.61.425 – Minimum speed regulation – Passing slow moving vehicle
(1) No person shall drive a motor vehicle at such a slow speed as to impede the normal and reasonable movement of traffic except when reduced speed is necessary for safe operation or in compliance with law: PROVIDED, That a person following a vehicle driving at less than the legal maximum speed and desiring to pass such vehicle may exceed the speed limit, subject to the provisions of RCW 46.61.120 [Limitations on overtaking on the left] on highways having only one lane of traffic in each direction, at only such a speed and for only such a distance as is necessary to complete the pass with a reasonable margin of safety.
In Ohio the highway engineers went to the highway patrol and asked them to raise the grace limit from 9 mph because the engineers' data showed that pulling too many people over was more dangerous than speeding since pulling someone over on a busy road makes hundreds if not thousands of drivers change their position. Pulling someone over is extremely dangerous for everyone involved unless the speed limit is low or traffic is light.
Quote from: ET21 on June 20, 2023, 02:50:04 PM
I go 5 over pretty much everywhere, because otherwise you'll be pushed off the road by everyone else. Only places I stick to the limit or go under is if there are a lot of pedestrians around
There is a distinction between "what is legal" and "what you can almost always get away with". There is also a distinction between posted statutory maximum speed limits and posted prima facie speed limits.
Just about anywhere in the world, no authority is going to issue a ticket for actually going less than 10% over the maximum legal speed. That's 5% for your equipment and 5% for their equipment. Now that's only 83MPH in a 75 zone. That doesn't make it legal to drive 82MPH. It doesn't even make it legal to drive 78MPH. It's just that they can't be sure that you are actually violating the law (and have reasonable notice that you are and that you intend to do so).
In California, most "Speed Limit" signs that aren't on freeways are actually prima facie limits. They aren't the maximum legal speed. The are just the posting authority's best scientific estimate of what a legal speed would be. Not all of them post for ideal conditions. Not all of them update the signs when a traffic survey determines that a higher speed is appropriate. Sometimes signed prima facie limits are reduced because of pressure from people in the neighborhood. In those conditions, police often operate RADAR and do ticket, but not usually without giving enough tolerance so as to make it pretty certain that the speed will hold up as illegal, if challenged in court.
Quote from: kphoger on June 20, 2023, 09:36:52 PM
How do you know the exact speed you were actually going?
Many years ago, on family car vacations, my father was interested in how accurate our car's speedometer was. So when things weren't busy and we were on a flat and lightly traveled section of interstate highway, he would set the cruise control and see what speed it settled at on the display. He would then challenge us kids to watch for the mile marker posts and, using a stopwatch, time the distance between mile markers, and from that figure out the actual miles per hour. We would do this several times and average the results.
My dad, brother, and I were all - to varying degrees - both road geeks and math geeks. Mom put up with us as best she could.
Since then I've learned that the spacing between mile markers may not be terribly exact, so I don't know how reliable our calculations ended up being.
When we moved from Nashville, TN to Newark, DE in 1982, my father was driving the U-Haul and my mother was following in the station wagon. We spent the first night in Bristol, TN and my mother complained to my father that they were going too fast, typically breaking 60. So the next morning I rode shotgun in the U-Haul and measured the time between mile markers with a stopwatch. I forget how fast we turned out to be going.
The posted speed limit is normally 5 or 10 mph below the design speed.
[/quote]
No, the posted speed is whatever the courthouse gang, abetted by the insurance industry and know-nothing do-gooders, thinks will yield the maximum revenue. It has nothing to do with science or safety at all.
Note good posts above about how pulling people over to random tax them is extremely dangerous and how cops, knowing the roads can be driven far faster than the SL, and having immunity, do so regularly.
It is A L L about money.
Quote from: GCrites80s on June 22, 2023, 09:07:43 PM
In Ohio the highway engineers went to the highway patrol and asked them to raise the grace limit from 9 mph because the engineers' data showed that pulling too many people over was more dangerous than speeding since pulling someone over on a busy road makes hundreds if not thousands of drivers change their position. Pulling someone over is extremely dangerous for everyone involved unless the speed limit is low or traffic is light.
Wonder what they raised their grace limit to?
In 2008, I was coming south on OH 104, which I had been told was a good option to on US 23 between Columbus and Portsmouth. I was between Chillicothe and Portsmouth and I met an Ohio state trooper. I was doing somewhere between 65 and 70 in a 55 mph zone on a relatively flat, level road. He turned around and wrote me a ticket. He told me that he didn't feel I was driving at an excessive, dangerous rate of speed, but I was over the limit and he did have to issue the ticket. He wrote me for 64 in a 55 zone.
I ordered my Valentine One radar detector the next week. :bigass:
Quote from: hbelkins on June 22, 2023, 11:59:07 AM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on June 21, 2023, 12:35:04 PM
While speeding was not why I was stopped in either case, after my last two times being pulled over it's hard for me to believe my MN plates were *not* the primary reason for the police interest in me, and both stops were pretty clearly pretext stops to harass me for illegal contraband movements. One was on I-70 in Kansas in 2019 where that officer apparently realized there was nothing going on quickly and with a friendly warning to be careful he let me go. Unfortunately the ones who stopped me in Nebraska back in April were much more hostile and aggressive, bringing a K-9 to get into my car because I refused consent to search. I'm still bitter about it.
This has always concerned me. What's the probable cause for them bringing in the dog? Is lack of consent to search considered probable cause? If it is, then there is really no right of refusal in practical terms.
In exploring my options in the aftermath, the short answer is there are no rules. My travel history was likely his entire premise for claiming there was reasonable suspicion criminal activity was taking place.
When a cop stops you, he is supposed to strictly keep the focus on why he stopped you, so in order to investigate the unrelated drug/gun trafficking stuff that he's actually interested in, he needs to find a way to stall for time to build his case. In my case, he pretended my license plate information wasn't coming through on his computer so he could try to dig into my travel history. As soon as his computer "came back online" his tone completely changed to much more accusatory, stating his work is to intercept guns and drugs. He asked to search, and when I refused he more or less said my travel pattern is too suspicious to be allowed to continue without further scrutiny. That was when the K9 got involved.
I admit part of probably how I ended up there was ignorance of police tactics, but I don't know what I would have done differently if I could do it again. I'm not a good liar and obviously getting caught in a lie would have resulted in the same ending. In reading about an ongoing lawsuit against the Kansas Highway Patrol, profiling the condition of the car's interior is another tactic, and my car was a mess because I'd been on the move for 8 days straight.
Quote from: hbelkins on June 23, 2023, 10:44:21 AM
Quote from: GCrites80s on June 22, 2023, 09:07:43 PM
In Ohio the highway engineers went to the highway patrol and asked them to raise the grace limit from 9 mph because the engineers' data showed that pulling too many people over was more dangerous than speeding since pulling someone over on a busy road makes hundreds if not thousands of drivers change their position. Pulling someone over is extremely dangerous for everyone involved unless the speed limit is low or traffic is light.
Wonder what they raised their grace limit to?
11. It happened about 4 years ago.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on June 24, 2023, 10:45:01 AMI admit part of probably how I ended up there was ignorance of police tactics, but I don't know what I would have done differently if I could do it again.
There are websites that go into far more detail than I ever could, but the basic thing to remember is that they're trying to urge you to do what is going to take the least amount of time (consenting to everything) rather than what is going to afford you the most due process (making them get a warrant to search your car).
Quote from: abefroman329 on June 25, 2023, 11:01:01 AM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on June 24, 2023, 10:45:01 AMI admit part of probably how I ended up there was ignorance of police tactics, but I don't know what I would have done differently if I could do it again.
There are websites that go into far more detail than I ever could, but the basic thing to remember is that they're trying to urge you to do what is going to take the least amount of time (consenting to everything) rather than what is going to afford you the most due process (making them get a warrant to search your car).
Unfortunately what I learned is that courts have found that between you being on a public road, which erodes your rights to privacy, and the "immediate urgency" of stopping potential harmful contraband from being moved, cops have a much lower bar to gain rights to search vehicles over, say, a private home. The bar to create reasonable suspicion, which once reached pretty much means they now have the power to do whatever they have to do to satisfy the question of whether you're engaged in illegal activity, is nebulous and vague. While they do need your initial consent to search, as HB noted above a dog getting a hit gives them immediate and automatic power to search with no more questions asked.
Dogs aren't accurate instruments of detecting illegal substances, which I did not know before these cops harassed me. So I concluded the point of them is simply to override refusals of consent and take the decision out of the hands of the subject they want to search.
Quote from: Flint1979 on June 21, 2023, 10:41:27 PM
Seriously the most pulled over out of state vehicles I see have Illinois license plates.
Because if you're driving in Illinois and you're not doing at least 10 over, you'll probably have someone tailgating you hard.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on June 29, 2023, 12:48:15 AM
Quote from: abefroman329 on June 25, 2023, 11:01:01 AM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on June 24, 2023, 10:45:01 AMI admit part of probably how I ended up there was ignorance of police tactics, but I don't know what I would have done differently if I could do it again.
There are websites that go into far more detail than I ever could, but the basic thing to remember is that they're trying to urge you to do what is going to take the least amount of time (consenting to everything) rather than what is going to afford you the most due process (making them get a warrant to search your car).
Unfortunately what I learned is that courts have found that between you being on a public road, which erodes your rights to privacy, and the "immediate urgency" of stopping potential harmful contraband from being moved, cops have a much lower bar to gain rights to search vehicles over, say, a private home. The bar to create reasonable suspicion, which once reached pretty much means they now have the power to do whatever they have to do to satisfy the question of whether you're engaged in illegal activity, is nebulous and vague. While they do need your initial consent to search, as HB noted above a dog getting a hit gives them immediate and automatic power to search with no more questions asked.
Dogs aren't accurate instruments of detecting illegal substances, which I did not know before these cops harassed me. So I concluded the point of them is simply to override refusals of consent and take the decision out of the hands of the subject they want to search.
They can pretty much do anything to you when you are driving a car since "you could hurt someone".
I mean, I'll be going about 75 on my 65 MPH home stretch of I-95 and somebody will still be right on my tail.
Quote from: JoePCool14 on June 30, 2023, 05:06:13 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on June 21, 2023, 10:41:27 PM
Seriously the most pulled over out of state vehicles I see have Illinois license plates.
Because if you're driving in Illinois and you're not doing at least 10 over, you'll probably have someone tailgating you hard.
What I've learned from driving in Illinois and Ontario is that I will have someone tailgating me no matter what I do, so I stopped giving a damn and just drive the speed limit.
Quote from: algorerhythms on July 02, 2023, 09:50:46 AM
Quote from: JoePCool14 on June 30, 2023, 05:06:13 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on June 21, 2023, 10:41:27 PM
Seriously the most pulled over out of state vehicles I see have Illinois license plates.
Because if you're driving in Illinois and you're not doing at least 10 over, you'll probably have someone tailgating you hard.
What I've learned from driving in Illinois and Ontario is that I will have someone tailgating me no matter what I do, so I stopped giving a damn and just drive the speed limit.
Ah, a Nestor.
I've always found it relatively easy to not block the left lane and be courteous when I'm driving slower than traffic.
Quote from: Rothman on July 02, 2023, 09:53:54 AM
Quote from: algorerhythms on July 02, 2023, 09:50:46 AM
Quote from: JoePCool14 on June 30, 2023, 05:06:13 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on June 21, 2023, 10:41:27 PM
Seriously the most pulled over out of state vehicles I see have Illinois license plates.
Because if you're driving in Illinois and you're not doing at least 10 over, you'll probably have someone tailgating you hard.
What I've learned from driving in Illinois and Ontario is that I will have someone tailgating me no matter what I do, so I stopped giving a damn and just drive the speed limit.
Ah, a Nestor.
I've always found it relatively easy to not block the left lane and be courteous when I'm driving slower than traffic.
You automatically assume I block the left lane?
Quote from: algorerhythms on July 02, 2023, 11:48:06 AM
Quote from: Rothman on July 02, 2023, 09:53:54 AM
Quote from: algorerhythms on July 02, 2023, 09:50:46 AM
Quote from: JoePCool14 on June 30, 2023, 05:06:13 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on June 21, 2023, 10:41:27 PM
Seriously the most pulled over out of state vehicles I see have Illinois license plates.
Because if you're driving in Illinois and you're not doing at least 10 over, you'll probably have someone tailgating you hard.
What I've learned from driving in Illinois and Ontario is that I will have someone tailgating me no matter what I do, so I stopped giving a damn and just drive the speed limit.
Ah, a Nestor.
I've always found it relatively easy to not block the left lane and be courteous when I'm driving slower than traffic.
You automatically assume I block the left lane?
Not automatically. Just an assumption from the evidence at hand.
Quote from: Rothman on July 02, 2023, 09:53:54 AM
Quote from: algorerhythms on July 02, 2023, 09:50:46 AM
Quote from: JoePCool14 on June 30, 2023, 05:06:13 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on June 21, 2023, 10:41:27 PM
Seriously the most pulled over out of state vehicles I see have Illinois license plates.
Because if you're driving in Illinois and you're not doing at least 10 over, you'll probably have someone tailgating you hard.
What I've learned from driving in Illinois and Ontario is that I will have someone tailgating me no matter what I do, so I stopped giving a damn and just drive the speed limit.
Ah, a Nestor.
I've always found it relatively easy to not block the left lane and be courteous when I'm driving slower than traffic.
This isn't the left lane hogging thing it's speeding and they do it constantly. You could be in the right lane and you still have someone tailgating you. I drive about 5 mph over the speed limit and often do 10 mph over the speed limit on the highway and I will still get someone to tailgate me.
Quote from: Flint1979 on July 02, 2023, 03:49:48 PM
Quote from: Rothman on July 02, 2023, 09:53:54 AM
Quote from: algorerhythms on July 02, 2023, 09:50:46 AM
Quote from: JoePCool14 on June 30, 2023, 05:06:13 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on June 21, 2023, 10:41:27 PM
Seriously the most pulled over out of state vehicles I see have Illinois license plates.
Because if you're driving in Illinois and you're not doing at least 10 over, you'll probably have someone tailgating you hard.
What I've learned from driving in Illinois and Ontario is that I will have someone tailgating me no matter what I do, so I stopped giving a damn and just drive the speed limit.
Ah, a Nestor.
I've always found it relatively easy to not block the left lane and be courteous when I'm driving slower than traffic.
This isn't the left lane hogging thing it's speeding and they do it constantly. You could be in the right lane and you still have someone tailgating you. I drive about 5 mph over the speed limit and often do 10 mph over the speed limit on the highway and I will still get someone to tailgate me.
When I'm in the right lane and someone is tailgating me, which is quite rare, it's no big deal since they can go around when able.
It's only when you're in the left lane where I see Nestors coming out with "I'm going the limit" or "I'm already speeding" arguments for them to justify being in the way.
Quote from: Rothman on July 02, 2023, 06:19:15 PM
When I'm in the right lane and someone is tailgating me, which is quite rare, it's no big deal since they can go around when able.
That reminds me of the time I was in the right lane doing the speed limit on a freeway, and I was getting tailgated by a lifted truck. There was heavy traffic merging in from the right, and I knew the acceleration lane was relatively non-existent, so I changed lanes to the left to let them in, and lo and behold, the tailgating truck floors it past me now that I was out of the slow lane, right through the path of the merging traffic. The kicker is that the left lane was open the entire time, so he could've passed me that way if he had really wanted to. I could only laugh in amazement.
Quote from: CoreySamson on July 02, 2023, 09:51:32 PM
Quote from: Rothman on July 02, 2023, 06:19:15 PM
When I'm in the right lane and someone is tailgating me, which is quite rare, it's no big deal since they can go around when able.
That reminds me of the time I was in the right lane doing the speed limit on a freeway, and I was getting tailgated by a lifted truck. There was heavy traffic merging in from the right, and I knew the acceleration lane was relatively non-existent, so I changed lanes to the left to let them in, and lo and behold, the tailgating truck floors it past me now that I was out of the slow lane, right through the path of the merging traffic. The kicker is that the left lane was open the entire time, so he could've passed me that way if he had really wanted to. I could only laugh in amazement.
You pissed him off sometime in the past?
People absolutely tailgate in the right lane. On the 4-lane tollways, I find the right lane tends to be more open than the lane just to the left. Mostly from trucks that can't be bothered to deal with merging traffic. It creates a situation where the right lane sometimes ends up being the fastest lane of them all.
Some people just have zero driving etiquette. They just have to be driving 85+ everywhere with zero compromise.
Also, why is this thread in Off Topic? Shouldn't this be in General Highway Talk?
Quote from: CoreySamson on July 02, 2023, 09:51:32 PM
Quote from: Rothman on July 02, 2023, 06:19:15 PM
When I'm in the right lane and someone is tailgating me, which is quite rare, it's no big deal since they can go around when able.
That reminds me of the time I was in the right lane doing the speed limit on a freeway, and I was getting tailgated by a lifted truck. There was heavy traffic merging in from the right, and I knew the acceleration lane was relatively non-existent, so I changed lanes to the left to let them in, and lo and behold, the tailgating truck floors it past me now that I was out of the slow lane, right through the path of the merging traffic. The kicker is that the left lane was open the entire time, so he could've passed me that way if he had really wanted to. I could only laugh in amazement.
I swear people think that they can make other cars vaporize if they just mash the gas.
Here's something I had to laugh about earlier not a big deal really but I just had to laugh.
Here's the situation, I was traveling WB on W. Genesee Avenue across the Saginaw River. The traffic light at N. Michigan had just turned red and I was probably about 1/8th of a mile from the intersection and started slowing down to stop for the light. A guy behind me proceeds to whip around me, get in front of me and have to stop for the light anyway. I turned left on Michigan and he went straight on Genesee but it was just funny, like hurry up and wait you gained nothing by doing that stupid movement.
I have not read the replies. I am just gonna fly with it.
In most states the answer is NO. Technically NO!
In Arkansas they say " no allowance".
There are limited emergency reasons to exceed the speed limit.
For general conditions, as far as a buffer or allowance, no.
Now to the practical application. They are not going to stop anyone for less than 5 mph on a road with 45 mpg or higher limit, UNLESS they want / need an excuse to stop you. If they don't find anything else, they will send you along with either a warning or an oral admonition. Under 45 mph, generally 10%. Municipal police tend to be less forgiving.
In most situations, the police generally are looking over 10 mph at highway speed or 10%.. SO you probably can do 5 mph at 50+ speed limit.
I have gotten tickets for 62 in a 55 and have been told to slow down at 82 in a 70.
There is ZERO tolerance is most situations where the limit is less than 30 mph, Active school zones, places where emergency vehicles or police are working beside the road (in Texas there are special rules), and in active construction zones. Speed cameras (where legal) tend to have a finite setting that may have minimal tolerance.