I know there have been many posts about this over the years, but I'm curious why it exists in the first place and was curious if others had any info. From the looks of it, it was created in 1990 per this document (http://www.dot.state.tx.us/tpp/hwy/bi/bi0040a.htm). Everything you read says that the town died in 1975 when I-40 bypassed US66, and that by the 80's, there were only 5 people and all the businesses (all three) seemed to have closed. So why designate this highway when literally there wasn't a single business at the time of designation? I traveled it a long time ago and didn't have any idea of the history of it at the time.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on November 14, 2022, 05:46:54 PM
I know there have been many posts about this over the years, but I'm curious why it exists in the first place and was curious if others had any info. From the looks of it, it was created in 1990 per this document (http://www.dot.state.tx.us/tpp/hwy/bi/bi0040a.htm). Everything you read says that the town died in 1975 when I-40 bypassed US66, and that by the 80's, there were only 5 people and all the businesses (all three) seemed to have closed. So why designate this highway when literally there wasn't a single business at the time of designation? I traveled it a long time ago and didn't have any idea of the history of it at the time.
I just looked at the map, where does BR I-40 end at? I see the label on old 66 until the NM border but nothing past that.
Quote from: thisdj78 on November 14, 2022, 06:19:00 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on November 14, 2022, 05:46:54 PM
I know there have been many posts about this over the years, but I'm curious why it exists in the first place and was curious if others had any info. From the looks of it, it was created in 1990 per this document (http://www.dot.state.tx.us/tpp/hwy/bi/bi0040a.htm). Everything you read says that the town died in 1975 when I-40 bypassed US66, and that by the 80's, there were only 5 people and all the businesses (all three) seemed to have closed. So why designate this highway when literally there wasn't a single business at the time of designation? I traveled it a long time ago and didn't have any idea of the history of it at the time.
I just looked at the map, where does BR I-40 end at? I see the label on old 66 until the NM border but nothing past that.
State line.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on November 14, 2022, 06:20:39 PM
Quote from: thisdj78 on November 14, 2022, 06:19:00 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on November 14, 2022, 05:46:54 PM
I know there have been many posts about this over the years, but I'm curious why it exists in the first place and was curious if others had any info. From the looks of it, it was created in 1990 per this document (http://www.dot.state.tx.us/tpp/hwy/bi/bi0040a.htm). Everything you read says that the town died in 1975 when I-40 bypassed US66, and that by the 80's, there were only 5 people and all the businesses (all three) seemed to have closed. So why designate this highway when literally there wasn't a single business at the time of designation? I traveled it a long time ago and didn't have any idea of the history of it at the time.
I just looked at the map, where does BR I-40 end at? I see the label on old 66 until the NM border but nothing past that.
State line.
I wonder if it used to extend to San Jon in NM?
I'm assuming the application is in the AASHTO database? Most of the 66 Business Routes have shown up in the database, usually the application has the stated purpose and Route extent.
Of note may be the designation file for the route's previous iteration, from before its mileage was transferred to I-40-BL:
Quote from: Texas Department of Transportation
Highway Designation File
STATE HIGHWAY SPUR NO. 504
Minute Order 066067, dated 04/03/1972; Adm. Cir. 036-1972, dated 04/15/1972
Glenrio Spur - From Texas/New Mexico State Line at Glenrio, eastward 0.45 mile over old location US 66 and northward over new connection to IH 40, a total distance of approximately 0.61 mile. (Deaf Smith County) New Designation.
Had US-66 already been relocated off of this road by 1972? I don't see anything in the AASHTO database for US-66 in Texas from before 1975, and that was for a relocation onto I-40 at the Oklahoma line.
Quote from: kphoger on November 14, 2022, 06:50:50 PM
Of note may be the designation file for the route's previous iteration, from before its mileage was transferred to I-40-BL:
Quote from: Texas Department of Transportation
Highway Designation File
STATE HIGHWAY SPUR NO. 504
Minute Order 066067, dated 04/03/1972; Adm. Cir. 036-1972, dated 04/15/1972
Glenrio Spur - From Texas/New Mexico State Line at Glenrio, eastward 0.45 mile over old location US 66 and northward over new connection to IH 40, a total distance of approximately 0.61 mile. (Deaf Smith County) New Designation.
Had US-66 already been relocated off of this road by 1972? I don't see anything in the AASHTO database for US-66 in Texas from before 1975, and that was for a relocation onto I-40 at the Oklahoma line.
Good find.
According to this, I-40 was designated in 1975, but I don't see anything specifically about US66 being removed.
Quote from: kphoger on November 14, 2022, 06:50:50 PM
Had US-66 already been relocated off of this road by 1972? I don't see anything in the AASHTO database for US-66 in Texas from before 1975, and that was for a relocation onto I-40 at the Oklahoma line.
The USGS topo dated 1971 shows US 66 still going through Glenrio with no bypass. Per that map, I-40 had not yet been built around there in New Mexico, and began in Texas immediately east of Glenrio.
(https://i.imgur.com/9IH7Tna.png)
So it makes sense that Spur 504 was created for TxDOT to keep track of its old mileage as 66 was being transferred over to I-40. It is curious why it was renumbered to a business loop, though...
Quote from: thisdj78 on November 14, 2022, 06:22:35 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on November 14, 2022, 06:20:39 PM
Quote from: thisdj78 on November 14, 2022, 06:19:00 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on November 14, 2022, 05:46:54 PM
I know there have been many posts about this over the years, but I'm curious why it exists in the first place and was curious if others had any info. From the looks of it, it was created in 1990 per this document (http://www.dot.state.tx.us/tpp/hwy/bi/bi0040a.htm). Everything you read says that the town died in 1975 when I-40 bypassed US66, and that by the 80's, there were only 5 people and all the businesses (all three) seemed to have closed. So why designate this highway when literally there wasn't a single business at the time of designation? I traveled it a long time ago and didn't have any idea of the history of it at the time.
I just looked at the map, where does BR I-40 end at? I see the label on old 66 until the NM border but nothing past that.
State line.
I wonder if it used to extend to San Jon in NM?
Not to my knowledge.
Could they possibly been trying to entice interest in the area? A business route to place a business on? Maybe they thought there would be more excitement with US 66 tourism?
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on November 14, 2022, 09:35:56 PM
Could they possibly been trying to entice interest in the area? A business route to place a business on? Maybe they thought there would be more excitement with US 66 tourism?
I mean, why don't we throw a random business route on any of the myriad business routes in rural Texas that at least have one business instead.
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on November 14, 2022, 09:35:56 PM
Could they possibly been trying to entice interest in the area? A business route to place a business on? Maybe they thought there would be more excitement with US 66 tourism?
US 66 tourism wasn't as much of a thing when actual US 66 was still a thing. If anything, the brand new shiny Interstate was more interesting.
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 14, 2022, 11:39:17 PM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on November 14, 2022, 09:35:56 PM
Could they possibly been trying to entice interest in the area? A business route to place a business on? Maybe they thought there would be more excitement with US 66 tourism?
US 66 tourism wasn't as much of a thing when actual US 66 was still a thing. If anything, the brand new shiny Interstate was more interesting.
I always think of the "Welcome Interstate Travelers!" banner that the citizens of Radiator Springs put up in Cars. The interstates were fun until they started serving their purpose and bypassing towns along the way.
Quote from: US 89 on November 14, 2022, 11:55:31 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 14, 2022, 11:39:17 PM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on November 14, 2022, 09:35:56 PM
Could they possibly been trying to entice interest in the area? A business route to place a business on? Maybe they thought there would be more excitement with US 66 tourism?
US 66 tourism wasn't as much of a thing when actual US 66 was still a thing. If anything, the brand new shiny Interstate was more interesting.
I always think of the "Welcome Interstate Travelers!" banner that the citizens of Radiator Springs put up in Cars. The interstates were fun until they started serving their purpose and bypassing towns along the way.
And I'm sure you know this, but the motel in Cars was modeled after the abandoned one in Glenrio.
Quote from: US 89 on November 14, 2022, 07:45:23 PM
Quote from: kphoger on November 14, 2022, 06:50:50 PM
Had US-66 already been relocated off of this road by 1972? I don't see anything in the AASHTO database for US-66 in Texas from before 1975, and that was for a relocation onto I-40 at the Oklahoma line.
The USGS topo dated 1971 shows US 66 still going through Glenrio with no bypass. Per that map, I-40 had not yet been built around there in New Mexico, and began in Texas immediately east of Glenrio.
(https://i.imgur.com/9IH7Tna.png)
So it makes sense that Spur 504 was created for TxDOT to keep track of its old mileage as 66 was being transferred over to I-40. It is curious why it was renumbered to a business loop, though...
I am guessing but I believe TxDOT had a policy that any town that was bypassed by I-40 got a BL40 as a consolation. I can't think of a town that was bypassed that didn't get one at that time (mid 70's). IMO, that is an enticement for certain drivers to exit there looking for services and food.
Quote from: rte66man on November 15, 2022, 08:25:12 AM
I am guessing but I believe TxDOT had a policy that any town that was bypassed by I-40 got a BL40 as a consolation.
That's the most likely scenario I've heard suggested so far.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on November 15, 2022, 08:04:41 AM
Quote from: US 89 on November 14, 2022, 11:55:31 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 14, 2022, 11:39:17 PM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on November 14, 2022, 09:35:56 PM
Could they possibly been trying to entice interest in the area? A business route to place a business on? Maybe they thought there would be more excitement with US 66 tourism?
US 66 tourism wasn't as much of a thing when actual US 66 was still a thing. If anything, the brand new shiny Interstate was more interesting.
I always think of the "Welcome Interstate Travelers!" banner that the citizens of Radiator Springs put up in Cars. The interstates were fun until they started serving their purpose and bypassing towns along the way.
And I'm sure you know this, but the motel in Cars was modeled after the abandoned one in Glenrio.
Or was it Seligman?
Quote from: Rothman on November 15, 2022, 09:28:22 AM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on November 15, 2022, 08:04:41 AM
Quote from: US 89 on November 14, 2022, 11:55:31 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 14, 2022, 11:39:17 PM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on November 14, 2022, 09:35:56 PM
Could they possibly been trying to entice interest in the area? A business route to place a business on? Maybe they thought there would be more excitement with US 66 tourism?
US 66 tourism wasn't as much of a thing when actual US 66 was still a thing. If anything, the brand new shiny Interstate was more interesting.
I always think of the "Welcome Interstate Travelers!" banner that the citizens of Radiator Springs put up in Cars. The interstates were fun until they started serving their purpose and bypassing towns along the way.
And I'm sure you know this, but the motel in Cars was modeled after the abandoned one in Glenrio.
Or was it Seligman?
Cars has a crap ton of homages to a lot of 66 locales. The backdrops of Amboy, Oatman and Hackberry are all more also incorporated into the design of Radiator Springs.
Tell me this doesn't look like a certain truck based character in the Cars movies:
https://flic.kr/p/QQ3gyo
Quote from: rte66man on November 15, 2022, 08:25:12 AM
Quote from: US 89 on November 14, 2022, 07:45:23 PM
Quote from: kphoger on November 14, 2022, 06:50:50 PM
Had US-66 already been relocated off of this road by 1972? I don't see anything in the AASHTO database for US-66 in Texas from before 1975, and that was for a relocation onto I-40 at the Oklahoma line.
The USGS topo dated 1971 shows US 66 still going through Glenrio with no bypass. Per that map, I-40 had not yet been built around there in New Mexico, and began in Texas immediately east of Glenrio.
(https://i.imgur.com/9IH7Tna.png)
So it makes sense that Spur 504 was created for TxDOT to keep track of its old mileage as 66 was being transferred over to I-40. It is curious why it was renumbered to a business loop, though...
I am guessing but I believe TxDOT had a policy that any town that was bypassed by I-40 got a BL40 as a consolation. I can't think of a town that was bypassed that didn't get one at that time (mid 70's). IMO, that is an enticement for certain drivers to exit there looking for services and food.
Except Glenrio didn’t get one at the time. The interstate bypass was completed in 1975, but it appears the old road was known as Spur 504 until 1990 when it was renumbered to the current BL-40.
I still can't find anything in the AASHTO archive about either the establishment or elimination of US-40-BL in Glenrio. Or the relocation of US-66 onto I-40 in the area either.
Quote from: kphoger on November 15, 2022, 10:06:00 AM
I still can't find anything in the AASHTO archive about either the establishment or elimination of US-40-BL in Glenrio. Or the relocation of US-66 onto I-40 in the area either.
The relocation makes sense, usually AASHTO wouldn't care about such a minor realignment. I wonder if this just a rogue business route though? A business route is supposed to be approved by AASHTO for US Routes and Interstates.
Quote from: Rothman on November 15, 2022, 09:28:22 AM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on November 15, 2022, 08:04:41 AM
Quote from: US 89 on November 14, 2022, 11:55:31 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 14, 2022, 11:39:17 PM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on November 14, 2022, 09:35:56 PM
Could they possibly been trying to entice interest in the area? A business route to place a business on? Maybe they thought there would be more excitement with US 66 tourism?
US 66 tourism wasn't as much of a thing when actual US 66 was still a thing. If anything, the brand new shiny Interstate was more interesting.
I always think of the "Welcome Interstate Travelers!" banner that the citizens of Radiator Springs put up in Cars. The interstates were fun until they started serving their purpose and bypassing towns along the way.
And I'm sure you know this, but the motel in Cars was modeled after the abandoned one in Glenrio.
Or was it Seligman?
The closed Glenrio Motel from Cars:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-r_pFYj33GgA%2FVXIXj9KZmTI%2FAAAAAAAAHeI%2Fyo80ExO6h0g%2Fs1600%2FGlenrio.jpg&hash=8276c78bf55e621f8a8cc1369e8272ee6a0169cb)
The Little Juarez Café in Glenrio, TX:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-IMhkDi2U9bM%2FVYwVWKU9y7I%2FAAAAAAAAHx4%2FAlJvmUBfWn0%2Fs1600%2FLittle%252BJuarez.jpg&hash=891bccae3d3fce7d95ed2ad646f1a1f1a54bcbfb)
Didn't Texas at some point change all of its State Loops that were bypassed through-town portions of old US routes into Interstate Business Loops? I believe virtually all the IH loops in TX were originally designated as SLs after the original US route moved to the freeway routing.
Quote from: Urban Prairie Schooner on November 15, 2022, 10:19:44 PM
Didn't Texas at some point change all of its State Loops that were bypassed through-town portions of old US routes into Interstate Business Loops? I believe virtually all the IH loops in TX were originally designated as SLs after the original US route moved to the freeway routing.
Yes, but the only ones that seem to have retained it were the ones on US66 /I-40
Quote from: Urban Prairie Schooner on November 15, 2022, 10:19:44 PM
Didn't Texas at some point change all of its State Loops that were bypassed through-town portions of old US routes into Interstate Business Loops? I believe virtually all the IH loops in TX were originally designated as SLs after the original US route moved to the freeway routing.
I believe this is the correct answer. It's a TXDOT thing, not an AASHTO thing. Initially, whenever an original route was bypassed, TXDOT gave the old route a State Loop or State Spur designation. But then in the '80s and '90s they changed their philosophy on most of these old routes, taking away the State Loop or State Spur designations and replacing them with Business Loop designations. In some cases, it really didn't make sense. I would say Glenrio is one such example. Another example is the
twin US 67 business loops in San Angelo (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=29119.msg2602662#msg2602662), neither of which pass through the central business district (more detail at the bottom of
this page (https://www.usends.com/blog/us-highway-history-of-san-angelo-texas)).
Note that all the ex-66 loops were signed as I-40 Business from the beginning in 1985: https://publicdocs.txdot.gov/minord/MinuteOrderDocLib/003673457.pdf (p. 20). There was no such note for Glenrio: https://publicdocs.txdot.gov/minord/MinuteOrderDocLib/003674254.pdf (p. 30). https://publicdocs.txdot.gov/minord/MinuteOrderDocLib/003686704.pdf claims that it was, however, signed as a business route by 1990. But perhaps that was an error. Does anyone have any evidence of signage between 1972 and 1990?
Quote from: NE2 on November 16, 2022, 02:15:53 PM
Note that all the ex-66 loops were signed as I-40 Business from the beginning in 1985: https://publicdocs.txdot.gov/minord/MinuteOrderDocLib/003673457.pdf (p. 20). There was no such note for Glenrio: https://publicdocs.txdot.gov/minord/MinuteOrderDocLib/003674254.pdf (p. 30). https://publicdocs.txdot.gov/minord/MinuteOrderDocLib/003686704.pdf claims that it was, however, signed as a business route by 1990. But perhaps that was an error. Does anyone have any evidence of signage between 1972 and 1990?
Thanks for that! (By the way, you threw me off with the page numbers. I was looking at the actual document page numbers, not the .pdf page numbers.)
Quote from: kphoger on November 14, 2022, 06:50:50 PM
Of note may be the designation file for the route's previous iteration, from before its mileage was transferred to I-40-BL:
Quote from: Texas Department of Transportation
Highway Designation File
STATE HIGHWAY SPUR NO. 504
Minute Order 066067, dated 04/03/1972; Adm. Cir. 036-1972, dated 04/15/1972
Glenrio Spur - From Texas/New Mexico State Line at Glenrio, eastward 0.45 mile over old location US 66 and northward over new connection to IH 40, a total distance of approximately 0.61 mile. (Deaf Smith County) New Designation.
Had US-66 already been relocated off of this road by 1972? I don't see anything in the AASHTO database for US-66 in Texas from before 1975, and that was for a relocation onto I-40 at the Oklahoma line.
According to the minute order, I-40 was being built on new location parallel to US 66 and US 66 would be signed along the Interstate. So it wasn't relocated until the Interstate opened. The only piece of US 66 moved to the Interstate was the part in Glenrio, at least in this minute order. It appears it was mostly left in place and signed as business routes until the whole designation was cancelled. New Mexico wanted to drop their section of the old route, which is rather extensive and very rural, and appears to be maintained in a low condition. Texas moved the west end of their portion to the Interstate because New Mexico did. Texas is not eager to drop roads, so they gave the old road a spur number, probably also signed as a business route, as was the common practice. I think it was 1990 when the business route became an official designation. It's actually a category of State Highway, like State Highway Loops and Spurs, and is not a category of the parent route if that's a US or Interstate Highway.
The buildings in the area abandoned and the AADT is 40, so it probably costs very little to maintain. Going out and taking down the signs would probably cost more than leaving it on the books.
Quote from: NE2 on November 16, 2022, 02:15:53 PM
Note that all the ex-66 loops were signed as I-40 Business from the beginning in 1985: https://publicdocs.txdot.gov/minord/MinuteOrderDocLib/003673457.pdf (p. 20). There was no such note for Glenrio: https://publicdocs.txdot.gov/minord/MinuteOrderDocLib/003674254.pdf (p. 30). https://publicdocs.txdot.gov/minord/MinuteOrderDocLib/003686704.pdf claims that it was, however, signed as a business route by 1990. But perhaps that was an error. Does anyone have any evidence of signage between 1972 and 1990?
According to the minute order, it was signed as Business I-40. That isn't inconsistent with the 1985 minute order leaving Glenrio out. US 66 was moved to the Interstate near Glenrio when it opened because New Mexico moved their section to the Interstate. In the places listed in the 1985 minute order, it was left going through town and signed as business routes. Glenrio and its spur weren't affected by the cancellation of US 66 because that highway was along the Interstate.