Renewed discussion of replacing the Bourne and Sagamore Bridges below. Article contains a PDF of the report from the Army Corps of Engineers.
https://boston.cbslocal.com/2019/10/04/cape-cod-bridges-sagamore-bourne-army-corps-of-engineers-recommendation-replace/?fbclid=IwAR3oPdIxxjhr9aohXEnYccvvTfZsS-Jtt2MBxYe_In9mAJqe3i8QOn5saMU
Quote from: Boston.CBSlocal.com articleThe new bridges would each have four travel lanes, two in each direction. They would also include a separate lane for bicycles and pedestrians.
Personally, I still would opt for six travel lanes for each bridge (the eliminated Alternative E in the nested COE-pdf report). That said, I am leaning towards Alternate D (4 lanes plus Auxiliary Lanes).
Of course, the big question would be; will these new crossings be tolled? IIRC, the original bridges have a lifetime ban on tolls per the COE.
There were some VERY ambitious alternatives mentioned in the report. I can't see them building a centralized new single bridge or draining the canal and eliminating the water crossing. The path of least resistance is to replace in-kind, hopefully with a widened span.
Both bridges, whether replaced or rehabilitated, should have a median to separate the two directions of traffic. I don't think either bridge should have the two directions on an undivided roadway.
Looking for a better connection to US 6, too.
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on October 04, 2019, 04:22:44 PM
Both bridges, whether replaced or rehabilitated, should have a median to separate the two directions of traffic. I don't think either bridge should have the two directions on an undivided roadway.
I'm presuming you didn't read the executive summary of the PDF report (https://capecodcanalbridgesstudy.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/01-CCCB-MRER-Draft-Oct2019.pdf)...in particular the "Recommended Plan":
Quote from: From the Recommended Plan7) Each new bridge would include shoulder width on the vehicle deck.
8) Each new bridge would include a median to separate northbound and southbound vehicular traffic.
Quote from: Rothman on October 04, 2019, 06:07:13 PMLooking for a better connection to US 6, too.
If you're referring to where US 6 meets MA 3 & the Sagamore Bridge (mainland side); that rotary was replaced with an interchange several years ago.
The only rotary adjacent to the Cape Cod bridges is the MA 28 Bourne Rotary at the Cape Cod side of the Bourne Bridge.
Right, it's that awkward movement from MA 25 to get to US 6 that makes me scowl. Freeway to traffic lights to freeway. It's annoying.
Quote from: Rothman on October 07, 2019, 09:52:10 AMRight, it's that awkward movement from MA 25 to get to US 6 that makes me scowl. Freeway to traffic lights to freeway. It's annoying.
If your post is referring to the stretch of US 6 between the two bridges on the mainland side; I don't believe there are any plans to upgrade such to an expressway.
Quote from: PHLBOS on October 07, 2019, 10:40:09 AM
Quote from: Rothman on October 07, 2019, 09:52:10 AMRight, it's that awkward movement from MA 25 to get to US 6 that makes me scowl. Freeway to traffic lights to freeway. It's annoying.
If your post is referring to the stretch of US 6 between the two bridges on the mainland side; I don't believe there are any plans to upgrade such to an expressway.
MassDOT has released its own report on planned upgrades around the Cape bridges. No US 6 upgrades on the mainland side, they do want to add an additional lane eastbound between a Exits 1C (6A) and 2 on the Cape side, and relocated Exit 1C westbound:
http://blog.mass.gov/transportation/massdot-highway/massdot-releases-cape-cod-canal-transportation-study/?hootPostID=974334ffa39db0bfea6aa112df28c977 (http://blog.mass.gov/transportation/massdot-highway/massdot-releases-cape-cod-canal-transportation-study/?hootPostID=974334ffa39db0bfea6aa112df28c977)
Would it be possible to connect Sias Point Rd. to Agawam Point Rd. and/or Burgess Point Rd. to Mashnee Rd.?
Quote from: 1 on October 07, 2019, 12:35:32 PMWould it be possible to connect Sias Point Rd. to Agawam Point Rd. and/or Burgess Point Rd. to Mashnee Rd.?
You might want to look at an aerial/Google Earth image of that area. Linking those two remote, dead-end, residential streets across a wider than the Cape Cod Canal, navigable waterway via a new bridge; not likely.
Quote from: bob7374 on October 07, 2019, 12:24:51 PM
MassDOT has released its own report on planned upgrades around the Cape bridges. No US 6 upgrades on the mainland side
Not entirely true. While there are no plans between the bridges on the mainland side, there are improvements proposed at the 6/25 interchange. More specifically, streamlining the "rotary" into a roundabout with frontage roads for local business access, and adding a direct WB 6 to WB 25 ramp. They didn't mention them on the page you linked to, but they're in the report itself.
As someone who spent her whole childhood on Cape Cod, I am excited to hear that the Canal is finally getting new bridges, with all the specs I dreamed they would have (each direction: 2 travel lanes, aux lane, shoulder lane).
Now if they could only get rid of the final rotary, and make it into an "Exit 11" (using mile numbering) for MA-25, I'll be happy. I'll be even happier if in addition to the proposed W US-6 to W MA-25 ramp, they also link the two routes eastbound with a stack ramp (It would fly under the new Bourne Bridge, but over US-6). So you'd have Exit 9 being "{6} West [28] North", and a new eastbound-only Exit 10 being "{6} East to [3]", bypassing the large rotary completely.
Quote from: DJ Particle on October 17, 2019, 04:41:08 AM
As someone who spent her whole childhood on Cape Cod, I am excited to hear that the Canal is finally getting new bridges, with all the specs I dreamed they would have (each direction: 2 travel lanes, aux lane, shoulder lane).
Now if they could only get rid of the final rotary, and make it into an "Exit 11" (using mile numbering) for MA-25, I'll be happy. I'll be even happier if in addition to the proposed W US-6 to W MA-25 ramp, they also link the two routes eastbound with a stack ramp (It would fly under the new Bourne Bridge, but over US-6). So you'd have Exit 9 being "{6} West [28] North", and a new eastbound-only Exit 10 being "{6} East to [3]", bypassing the large rotary completely.
Yes, I'm all for filling in the missing link that would bypass the rotary in both directions. It would be nice to go from one bridge to the other without having to deal with traffic lights.
Quote from: DJ ParticleNow if they could only get rid of the final rotary, and make it into an "Exit 11" (using mile numbering) for MA-25, I'll be happy.
Are you referring to the rotary on the south side of the Bourne Bridge? If so, the state's plan already includes converting that into an interchange.
Are the plans publicly available in detail?
The MassDOT study is, but you'd have to dig to find it. I don't recall where offhand except somewhere on their website.
Quote from: froggie on October 18, 2019, 08:53:23 AM
The MassDOT study is, but you'd have to dig to find it. I don't recall where offhand except somewhere on their website.
A link to the study can be found at: https://www.mass.gov/cape-cod-canal-transportation-study (https://www.mass.gov/cape-cod-canal-transportation-study)
This isn't in the vicinity of these two bridges, but are there any plans to expand the two-lane segment of the US 6 freeway to four lanes?
^ No.
There is now
talk of the Commonwealth taking over control of the Cape Cod bridges... once the spans are replaced.
Transfer from Army Corps would not occur until after aging spans are replaced. (https://www.capecodtimes.com/news/20191029/state-official-takeover-of-cape-cod-canal-bridges-on-table?fbclid=IwAR0GvtaQThCn1tKAINLx5AA6ZiqSn2ukjmLxQzEjdCV5kWBYpdTvZOxT-qo)
Towards the bottom of the article:
Quote from: Cape Cod Times ArticleThe Corps is obligated to keep the crossings toll-free; the state, however, is not. (State Rep. David) Vieira worried that, at some point to keep up with the costs of maintaining the bridges, the state could turn to tolls.
"That's a concern I have," he said.
Quote from: PHLBOS on November 04, 2019, 02:30:40 PM
There is now talk of the Commonwealth taking over control of the Cape Cod bridges... once the spans are replaced.
Transfer from Army Corps would not occur until after aging spans are replaced. (https://www.capecodtimes.com/news/20191029/state-official-takeover-of-cape-cod-canal-bridges-on-table?fbclid=IwAR0GvtaQThCn1tKAINLx5AA6ZiqSn2ukjmLxQzEjdCV5kWBYpdTvZOxT-qo)
Towards the bottom of the article:
Quote from: Cape Cod Times ArticleThe Corps is obligated to keep the crossings toll-free; the state, however, is not. (State Rep. David) Vieira worried that, at some point to keep up with the costs of maintaining the bridges, the state could turn to tolls.
"That's a concern I have," he said.
Please, no. The Corps controls the Canal and the RR bridge. This would cause all sorts of regulatory headaches.
I'm surprised they're not talking about a third bridge in the middle, carrying a direct freeway connection between MA-25 on the mainland and US-6 on the Cape. It's an obvious route, and it would connect most of the Cape (everything except the Falmouth area) to most of the rest of the world (everything except the Boston area). And it would reduce the cost of replacing the other two bridges, since four travel lanes would probably be enough for the reduced traffic on them.
Quote from: pderocco on November 17, 2019, 10:27:08 PMI'm surprised they're not talking about a third bridge in the middle, carrying a direct freeway connection between MA-25 on the mainland and US-6 on the Cape. It's an obvious route, and it would connect most of the Cape (everything except the Falmouth area) to most of the rest of the world (everything except the Boston area). And it would reduce the cost of replacing the other two bridges, since four travel lanes would probably be enough for the reduced traffic on them.
Even if a third bridge was built; the current spans are now over 80 years old and are nearing the end of their lifespan (typically 100 years). Both bridges would still need to be replaced/overhauled regardless.
Quote from: pderocco on November 17, 2019, 10:27:08 PM
I'm surprised they're not talking about a third bridge in the middle, carrying a direct freeway connection between MA-25 on the mainland and US-6 on the Cape. It's an obvious route, and it would connect most of the Cape (everything except the Falmouth area) to most of the rest of the world (everything except the Boston area). And it would reduce the cost of replacing the other two bridges, since four travel lanes would probably be enough for the reduced traffic on them.
You would still need permission from the Corps to build over the canal.
I believe a study was done that showed a completely new freeway construction would disrupt the nesting place of several species of migratory birds.
Quote from: pderocco on November 17, 2019, 10:27:08 PM
I'm surprised they're not talking about a third bridge in the middle, carrying a direct freeway connection between MA-25 on the mainland and US-6 on the Cape. It's an obvious route, and it would connect most of the Cape (everything except the Falmouth area) to most of the rest of the world (everything except the Boston area). And it would reduce the cost of replacing the other two bridges, since four travel lanes would probably be enough for the reduced traffic on them.
If this were to happen, I see the following happening as well:
US-6 would be rerouted onto the new bridge, connecting MA-25 in Plymouth with the Mid-Cape Highway in Sandwich (making US-6 shorter by about 2-3 miles or so).
MA-3 would be extended to Sandwich taking over the former US-6, ending at the new exit (making MA-3 longer by about 2-3 miles as well).
No direct connection from South MA-3 to West US-6 (Must go via South MA-3A [former US-6 along the north end of the Canal] or West MA-6A [Sandwich Rd.])
No direct connection from West MA-25 to East US-6 (Must go via same connectors noted above)
US-6 would be multiplexed with MA-25 from the new exit to current Exit 2.
And frankly, by that point, why even have the MA-25 designation at all? Just have MA-28 take it over and multiplex a bit on I-495 to meet up with its current routing.
Quote from: DJ Particle on November 19, 2019, 04:37:36 AMAnd frankly, by that point, why even have the MA-25 designation at all? Just have MA-28 take it over and multiplex a bit on I-495 to meet up with its current routing.
Personally, I would had MA 25 be an extension of I-195.
Quote from: PHLBOS on November 19, 2019, 04:45:07 PM
Quote from: DJ Particle on November 19, 2019, 04:37:36 AMAnd frankly, by that point, why even have the MA-25 designation at all? Just have MA-28 take it over and multiplex a bit on I-495 to meet up with its current routing.
Personally, I would had MA 25 be an extension of I-195.
Route 25 was the former designation of what is now I-495 east of Route 24, so I almost want to extend 495 down if it wouldn't violate numbering rules. That cloverleaf at 495/24 (along with 495 north/west of there) didn't exist and the 24 expressway simply forked. But alas, numbering rules are a thing, so I-195 it would need to be.
Please take what-if route numberings to Fictional Highways.
https://www.wcvb.com/article/replacement-designs-for-sagamore-bourne-bridges-unveiled-public-opinion-sought/41989090
MassDOT has unveiled three renderings of potential replacement designs for the Sagamore and Bourne bridges.
Construction for the $4 billion project that will add a third travel lane in each direction on both bridges is slated to begin in 2027 and finish by 2034.
--
My thoughts:
Concrete box girder: yuck.
Cable stayed suspension: yawn.
Arch: Hell yes.
Quote from: seicer on November 18, 2022, 09:15:22 AM
https://www.wcvb.com/article/replacement-designs-for-sagamore-bourne-bridges-unveiled-public-opinion-sought/41989090
MassDOT has unveiled three renderings of potential replacement designs for the Sagamore and Bourne bridges.
Construction for the $4 billion project that will add a third travel lane in each direction on both bridges is slated to begin in 2027 and finish by 2034.
--
My thoughts:
Concrete box girder: yuck.
Cable stayed suspension: yawn.
Arch: Hell yes.
The arches do look the best of them. Appears that may go the fastest as well despite tying up the canal traffic more than the other choices.