New Jersey

[NJRoadfan]

Anyone here have any contacts at DOT or Turnpike?

I've noticed the past few months that both NJDOT and NJTA have stopped posting travel times on VMSes. Wondering if there is a reason for that as it is actually useful information.

[jeffandnicole]

Anyone here have any contacts at DOT or Turnpike?

I've noticed the past few months that both NJDOT and NJTA have stopped posting travel times on VMSes. Wondering if there is a reason for that as it is actually useful information.

It stopped back in December 2022. Never heard a reason why.

[ran4sh]

https://goo.gl/maps/qdPUHNPi3Z1ajWLV6
I love how NJ DOT is inconsistent with the control cities here. Being the NJTA uses Metuchen and Perth Amboy for Exit 10 on the NJ Turnpike. This here is the ramp leading from Exit 10 to its distributed freeways. Yet no mention of either control points that were primary for the ramp.

I believe the MUTCD does recommend (if not require) message consistency thru sign sequences of that sort. But good luck with that in the real world.

That only applies for the sequence of Advance Guide signs prior to an exit and the Exit Direction sign after the exit itself. Signs after the exit are allowed to have additional destinations that were not included on the Advance Guide/Exit Direction signs.

[roadman65]

https://goo.gl/maps/qdPUHNPi3Z1ajWLV6
I love how NJ DOT is inconsistent with the control cities here. Being the NJTA uses Metuchen and Perth Amboy for Exit 10 on the NJ Turnpike. This here is the ramp leading from Exit 10 to its distributed freeways. Yet no mention of either control points that were primary for the ramp.

I believe the MUTCD does recommend (if not require) message consistency thru sign sequences of that sort. But good luck with that in the real world.

That only applies for the sequence of Advance Guide signs prior to an exit and the Exit Direction sign after the exit itself. Signs after the exit are allowed to have additional destinations that were not included on the Advance Guide/Exit Direction signs.

There isn't an issue that Outerbridge Crossing or Staten Island ( or Woodbridge ) are used. Just that Perth Amboy or Metuchen  are not used at all to follow up at the 287/440 freeways.

Ditto from Exit 129 on the nearby Parkway South using Philadelphia now.  Once on the ramp to the Turnpike it changes to Trenton being inconsistent with previous signage.

[bzakharin]

https://goo.gl/maps/qdPUHNPi3Z1ajWLV6
I love how NJ DOT is inconsistent with the control cities here. Being the NJTA uses Metuchen and Perth Amboy for Exit 10 on the NJ Turnpike. This here is the ramp leading from Exit 10 to its distributed freeways. Yet no mention of either control points that were primary for the ramp.

I believe the MUTCD does recommend (if not require) message consistency thru sign sequences of that sort. But good luck with that in the real world.

That only applies for the sequence of Advance Guide signs prior to an exit and the Exit Direction sign after the exit itself. Signs after the exit are allowed to have additional destinations that were not included on the Advance Guide/Exit Direction signs.

There isn't an issue that Outerbridge Crossing or Staten Island ( or Woodbridge ) are used. Just that Perth Amboy or Metuchen  are not used at all to follow up at the 287/440 freeways.

Ditto from Exit 129 on the nearby Parkway South using Philadelphia now.  Once on the ramp to the Turnpike it changes to Trenton being inconsistent with previous signage.

Both Perth Amboy and Metuchen were there until 2020 https://www.google.com/maps/@40.5255532,-74.3341047,3a,75y,125.62h,104.84t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sueRe6U8b0ROgy1KTTAVaow!2e0!5s20201101T000000!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en&entry=ttu
Were the old signs NJTA and the new ones NJDOT? Also, Perth Amboy is a control city for NJ 440 elsewhere (NJDOT territory), though Metuchen, to my knowledge, has never been used by NJDOT for I-287.

[storm2k]

https://goo.gl/maps/qdPUHNPi3Z1ajWLV6
I love how NJ DOT is inconsistent with the control cities here. Being the NJTA uses Metuchen and Perth Amboy for Exit 10 on the NJ Turnpike. This here is the ramp leading from Exit 10 to its distributed freeways. Yet no mention of either control points that were primary for the ramp.

I believe the MUTCD does recommend (if not require) message consistency thru sign sequences of that sort. But good luck with that in the real world.

That only applies for the sequence of Advance Guide signs prior to an exit and the Exit Direction sign after the exit itself. Signs after the exit are allowed to have additional destinations that were not included on the Advance Guide/Exit Direction signs.

There isn't an issue that Outerbridge Crossing or Staten Island ( or Woodbridge ) are used. Just that Perth Amboy or Metuchen  are not used at all to follow up at the 287/440 freeways.

Ditto from Exit 129 on the nearby Parkway South using Philadelphia now.  Once on the ramp to the Turnpike it changes to Trenton being inconsistent with previous signage.

Both Perth Amboy and Metuchen were there until 2020 https://www.google.com/maps/@40.5255532,-74.3341047,3a,75y,125.62h,104.84t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sueRe6U8b0ROgy1KTTAVaow!2e0!5s20201101T000000!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en&entry=ttu
Were the old signs NJTA and the new ones NJDOT? Also, Perth Amboy is a control city for NJ 440 elsewhere (NJDOT territory), though Metuchen, to my knowledge, has never been used by NJDOT for I-287.

That was an NJTA assembly. The signs were replaced when NJTA moved to the MUTCDish signage in 2015-16 but the structure was older and I am guessing it reached the end of its service life. The new assemblies on the other side of that underpass are NJDOT assemblies. Everything past there was always NJDOT.

Metuchen was signed for Exit 10 because it was built when 287 was early in its days of construction and only made it as far as Metuchen. For whatever reason even after it was completed further north, the Turnpike Authority is the Turnpike Authority and never changed it.

[storm2k]

Route 287 ramp to Route 78 toward Newark Airport will be closed this weekend.

The closure is necessary for final paving of the reconstructed permanent ramp and installation of guiderail, signage and permanent lighting.

They're finally at the finish line for reconstruction of the ramp at 21A after the sinkhole last year.

[Alps]

Route 287 ramp to Route 78 toward Newark Airport will be closed this weekend.

The closure is necessary for final paving of the reconstructed permanent ramp and installation of guiderail, signage and permanent lighting.

They're finally at the finish line for reconstruction of the ramp at 21A after the sinkhole last year.

but they're so awful with telling motorists what to do. heaven forbid you should u-turn at Exit 22B.

[bzakharin]

https://goo.gl/maps/qdPUHNPi3Z1ajWLV6
I love how NJ DOT is inconsistent with the control cities here. Being the NJTA uses Metuchen and Perth Amboy for Exit 10 on the NJ Turnpike. This here is the ramp leading from Exit 10 to its distributed freeways. Yet no mention of either control points that were primary for the ramp.

I believe the MUTCD does recommend (if not require) message consistency thru sign sequences of that sort. But good luck with that in the real world.

That only applies for the sequence of Advance Guide signs prior to an exit and the Exit Direction sign after the exit itself. Signs after the exit are allowed to have additional destinations that were not included on the Advance Guide/Exit Direction signs.

There isn't an issue that Outerbridge Crossing or Staten Island ( or Woodbridge ) are used. Just that Perth Amboy or Metuchen  are not used at all to follow up at the 287/440 freeways.

Ditto from Exit 129 on the nearby Parkway South using Philadelphia now.  Once on the ramp to the Turnpike it changes to Trenton being inconsistent with previous signage.

Both Perth Amboy and Metuchen were there until 2020 https://www.google.com/maps/@40.5255532,-74.3341047,3a,75y,125.62h,104.84t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sueRe6U8b0ROgy1KTTAVaow!2e0!5s20201101T000000!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en&entry=ttu
Were the old signs NJTA and the new ones NJDOT? Also, Perth Amboy is a control city for NJ 440 elsewhere (NJDOT territory), though Metuchen, to my knowledge, has never been used by NJDOT for I-287.

That was an NJTA assembly. The signs were replaced when NJTA moved to the MUTCDish signage in 2015-16 but the structure was older and I am guessing it reached the end of its service life. The new assemblies on the other side of that underpass are NJDOT assemblies. Everything past there was always NJDOT.

Metuchen was signed for Exit 10 because it was built when 287 was early in its days of construction and only made it as far as Metuchen. For whatever reason even after it was completed further north, the Turnpike Authority is the Turnpike Authority and never changed it.

I wonder why it was decided to move the sign from NJTA to NJDOT jurisdiction.

[storm2k]

Speaking of 287, does anyone know of or have some decent quality pictures of the old experimental diagrammatic signage that existed between Rt 1 and Rt 22? I've seen some grainy ones that were scans or pictures of old newspaper pictures and one or two random shots that someone may have taken, but that's been it. Would be cool to see some picture of it again.

[roadman65]

Speaking of 287, does anyone know of or have some decent quality pictures of the old experimental diagrammatic signage that existed between Rt 1 and Rt 22? I've seen some grainy ones that were scans or pictures of old newspaper pictures and one or two random shots that someone may have taken, but that's been it. Would be cool to see some picture of it again.

Do you know Michael Suma?

[roadman65]

https://goo.gl/maps/7dhZ9XPxnySbg6F87
Does anyone have a photo of the uncovered sign bridge that is in the GSV Caption?

[storm2k]

Speaking of 287, does anyone know of or have some decent quality pictures of the old experimental diagrammatic signage that existed between Rt 1 and Rt 22? I've seen some grainy ones that were scans or pictures of old newspaper pictures and one or two random shots that someone may have taken, but that's been it. Would be cool to see some picture of it again.

Do you know Michael Suma?

I know of him, I've seen his pictures on numerous sites and I know some post them in the threads from time to time. I don't know him personally.

[storm2k]

https://goo.gl/maps/7dhZ9XPxnySbg6F87
Does anyone have a photo of the uncovered sign bridge that is in the GSV Caption?

Give me a few days and I'll try to get out there and grab some new pictures. I've been getting shots of all of the replacements along this stretch of 78.

Also interesting to me that NJDOT has basically decided that any cantilever structure is going to be one length regardless of the size of the sign that goes on it. That's a marked change from how they've done these structures in the past.

[storm2k]

NJDOT has released a public information center page for the 202/First Ave interchange improvements in Raritan Boro in Somerset County. Basically will be building a more modern jughandle ramp from 202 SB to First Ave that comes out further north so cars will have more space to queue up and make the left onto First Ave SB and extending the third lane in both directions to just south of First Ave on 202 (so it's not a lane drop). Also there are plans to change the timing of the lights on First Ave from split phase to protected/permissive to keep traffic moving.

That First Ave intersection would really benefit from grade separation, but the land taking alone makes that unfeasible (they have to deal with 22 different properties as it is for what they want to do now--6 full takings and then a bunch of easements). Traffic would flow a lot better thru here if that intersection could be grade separated. At least they're going to try and make the intersection as better as they can for now.

[kernals12]

NJDOT has released a public information center page for the 202/First Ave interchange improvements in Raritan Boro in Somerset County. Basically will be building a more modern jughandle ramp from 202 SB to First Ave that comes out further north so cars will have more space to queue up and make the left onto First Ave SB and extending the third lane in both directions to just south of First Ave on 202 (so it's not a lane drop). Also there are plans to change the timing of the lights on First Ave from split phase to protected/permissive to keep traffic moving.

That First Ave intersection would really benefit from grade separation, but the land taking alone makes that unfeasible (they have to deal with 22 different properties as it is for what they want to do now--6 full takings and then a bunch of easements). Traffic would flow a lot better thru here if that intersection could be grade separated. At least they're going to try and make the intersection as better as they can for now.

There were once plans to make US 202 into a freeway from the Delaware River to I-287.

[roadman65]

https://goo.gl/maps/7dhZ9XPxnySbg6F87
Does anyone have a photo of the uncovered sign bridge that is in the GSV Caption?

Give me a few days and I'll try to get out there and grab some new pictures. I've been getting shots of all of the replacements along this stretch of 78.

Also interesting to me that NJDOT has basically decided that any cantilever structure is going to be one length regardless of the size of the sign that goes on it. That's a marked change from how they've done these structures in the past.

What they need to do is post exit numbers to match EB I-78. Plus why does the Frontage Road Exit gets substandard signs. It should get on the overhead too with an  exit number as well.

[storm2k]

Some pictures of new signs on 78WB in the local/express section between Newark and Summit.


At the entrance to the local lanes just past the Exit 14 tollbooth. Of interest is that the North/South areas of the airport get a brown background, but the sign for the main terminals is just "Newark Airport" with no brown background. Also note that NJDOT is using the standard MUTCD airport symbol now.


The alignment of the various parts of that sign on the right feel wrong. Also, the "To Parkway" part just needs to be the to and a GSP shield. Don't think they need the text legend. Just put that on the same line as the 78 shield and then put the Newark Airport legend underneath.


The crossover sign is basically the same as seen on the eastbound side. NJDOT is very committed to not using any abbreviations for Garden State Parkway anymore.


At Exit 48. NJDOT went with two cantilever structures instead of a full sign bridge here. As I've noted in the past, they seem to have settled on the cantilever structure being the same length without regard to the sign(s) that they're putting on them.

[SignBridge]

Re: the first photo, you have to wonder why there isn't a down arrow over the center lane on the Newark sign. It would give greater clarity and make all three signs uniform in height, which isn't strictly necessary but does make for a better appearance.

In the second photo, the Newark sign should have two left-angled up arrows instead of left 2 lanes. That legend could be used before the split but not at the gore point where arrows would be better.

Third photo, the Exit 55 sign should have a road name on it in addition to the two town names, but that's a whole other controversial subject. I get that they're following MUTCD recommendations that I disagree with.  And on the Crossover sign, I think G S Parkway would be fine. I don't get why they won't abbreviate it anymore.

And in the last photo, the Exit 48 sign again should have had arrows at the split instead of right 3 lanes legend.

I really don't understand NJDOT's way of doing things.........

[roadman65]

I sill wish that the TO I-287 would be TO NORTH I-287 at Exit 48.  If this were any other state it would just be Route 24 West and no TO ending interstates.

It seems NJDOT doesn't sign indirect control cities anymore without the connecting route just like I-195 EB in Central Jersey using a TO NJ 138 shield because the interstate does not enter the Belmar Borough Limits. 

That maybe why the new signs at the WB Express Local split separate Newark Airport from I-78 WB on the pull through as technically the interstate don't go to the airport proper.

I don't see the need for the U TURN header at US 1-9 South.  It's not a common thing people are doing as a U Turn past the Exit 14 plaza would take motorists back onto the Turnpike.  It seems NJDOT is using local expressway signing practices on roads that have businesses along them needing u turn signs to circumvent the lack of median breaks like on NJ 3 or NJ 4.

[akotchi]

Re: the first photo, you have to wonder why there isn't a down arrow over the center lane on the Newark sign. It would give greater clarity and make all three signs uniform in height, which isn't strictly necessary but does make for a better appearance.

In the second photo, the Newark sign should have two left-angled up arrows instead of left 2 lanes. That legend could be used before the split but not at the gore point where arrows would be better.

Not obvious in the first photo is that the two right lanes exiting the toll plaza both go to the Newark destination.

Agree on the second photo, though there is a ramp that enters just behind the camera view and the roadway is only two lanes before that.  It is true that both lanes exit (so "BOTH LANES" may be better on the advance sign), but "through" traffic has to shift right to stay on I-78 local.  Markings are not intuitive there.

Almost begs for an APL sequence.

Not sure why the u-turn message . . . only traffic that enters is from the frontage road ramp, referenced above, but none of the movements from there would be a u-turn, except to go back to the hotels.

[jeffandnicole]

Re: the first photo, you have to wonder why there isn't a down arrow over the center lane on the Newark sign. It would give greater clarity and make all three signs uniform in height, which isn't strictly necessary but does make for a better appearance.

In the second photo, the Newark sign should have two left-angled up arrows instead of left 2 lanes. That legend could be used before the split but not at the gore point where arrows would be better.

Not obvious in the first photo is that the two right lanes exiting the toll plaza both go to the Newark destination.

Agree on the second photo, though there is a ramp that enters just behind the camera view and the roadway is only two lanes before that.  It is true that both lanes exit (so "BOTH LANES" may be better on the advance sign), but "through" traffic has to shift right to stay on I-78 local.  Markings are not intuitive there.

Almost begs for an APL sequence.

Not sure why the u-turn message . . . only traffic that enters is from the frontage road ramp, referenced above, but none of the movements from there would be a u-turn, except to go back to the hotels.

Following the "U-Turn" message, the next split has a half a sign remaining indicating U-turns to the right.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/hpiGHGPd8pSjjq3S8  Then after that is a BGS for the NJ Turnpike.

My only guess is that with the large number of options that could lead someone to the Exit 14 plaza, there was enough people that took the wrong option that there was a need to sign a u-turn. Although that doesn't explain a lack of a u-turn blade on the first BGS after the toll plaza.

[Alps]

Re: the first photo, you have to wonder why there isn't a down arrow over the center lane on the Newark sign. It would give greater clarity and make all three signs uniform in height, which isn't strictly necessary but does make for a better appearance.

In the second photo, the Newark sign should have two left-angled up arrows instead of left 2 lanes. That legend could be used before the split but not at the gore point where arrows would be better.

Third photo, the Exit 55 sign should have a road name on it in addition to the two town names, but that's a whole other controversial subject. I get that they're following MUTCD recommendations that I disagree with.  And on the Crossover sign, I think G S Parkway would be fine. I don't get why they won't abbreviate it anymore.

And in the last photo, the Exit 48 sign again should have had arrows at the split instead of right 3 lanes legend.

I really don't understand NJDOT's way of doing things.........

1) mainline BGS do not typically get arrows. not needed here, reduced messaging.
2) This one I agree with you on.
3) No. No need for local street names. MUTCD all the way.
4) No. These are cantilevers. You're not getting a gigantic sign with arrows over all 3 lanes. This is fine as is.

[SignBridge]

Re: the first photo, you have to wonder why there isn't a down arrow over the center lane on the Newark sign. It would give greater clarity and make all three signs uniform in height, which isn't strictly necessary but does make for a better appearance.

In the second photo, the Newark sign should have two left-angled up arrows instead of left 2 lanes. That legend could be used before the split but not at the gore point where arrows would be better.

Third photo, the Exit 55 sign should have a road name on it in addition to the two town names, but that's a whole other controversial subject. I get that they're following MUTCD recommendations that I disagree with.  And on the Crossover sign, I think G S Parkway would be fine. I don't get why they won't abbreviate it anymore.

And in the last photo, the Exit 48 sign again should have had arrows at the split instead of right 3 lanes legend.

I really don't understand NJDOT's way of doing things.........

1) mainline BGS do not typically get arrows. not needed here, reduced messaging.
2) This one I agree with you on.
3) No. No need for local street names. MUTCD all the way.
4) No. These are cantilevers. You're not getting a gigantic sign with arrows over all 3 lanes. This is fine as is.

Thanks Alps. Good to hear the rationale from someone on the inside. But you didn't mention; would you know why they're not using the abbreviation G S Parkway anymore and insisting on full wording there? What happened to the words you used above: Not needed, reduced messaging ?

[roadman65]

Re: the first photo, you have to wonder why there isn't a down arrow over the center lane on the Newark sign. It would give greater clarity and make all three signs uniform in height, which isn't strictly necessary but does make for a better appearance.

In the second photo, the Newark sign should have two left-angled up arrows instead of left 2 lanes. That legend could be used before the split but not at the gore point where arrows would be better.

Not obvious in the first photo is that the two right lanes exiting the toll plaza both go to the Newark destination.

Agree on the second photo, though there is a ramp that enters just behind the camera view and the roadway is only two lanes before that.  It is true that both lanes exit (so "BOTH LANES" may be better on the advance sign), but "through" traffic has to shift right to stay on I-78 local.  Markings are not intuitive there.

Almost begs for an APL sequence.

Not sure why the u-turn message . . . only traffic that enters is from the frontage road ramp, referenced above, but none of the movements from there would be a u-turn, except to go back to the hotels.

Following the "U-Turn" message, the next split has a half a sign remaining indicating U-turns to the right.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/hpiGHGPd8pSjjq3S8  Then after that is a BGS for the NJ Turnpike.

My only guess is that with the large number of options that could lead someone to the Exit 14 plaza, there was enough people that took the wrong option that there was a need to sign a u-turn. Although that doesn't explain a lack of a u-turn blade on the first BGS after the toll plaza.

After doing a GSV tour of the area I found this.
https://goo.gl/maps/sx6ihCbmfQracFjBA
If you exit NB US 1 & 9 to Frontage Road, to U Turn you must enter the opposing direction of US 1 & 9 via the local lanes of I-78 WB to reach the SB lanes.

So the U Turn mentioned on the left exit for US 1 & 9 on I-78 local is most likely the follow up to the sign in the link I just provided.

That would explain the lack of U Turn posted previously at the post Exit 14 gantry.  It's not for those mistakenly exiting at 14 to get back to I-78 EB or I-95, although you can return to I-78 EB from US 1 & 9 SB after you exit onto it if that scenario does happen.