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Bourne & Sagamore Bridges

Started by southshore720, October 04, 2019, 10:06:01 AM

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southshore720



PHLBOS

Quote from: Boston.CBSlocal.com articleThe new bridges would each have four travel lanes, two in each direction. They would also include a separate lane for bicycles and pedestrians.
Personally, I still would opt for six travel lanes for each bridge (the eliminated Alternative E in the nested COE-pdf report).  That said, I am leaning towards Alternate D (4 lanes plus Auxiliary Lanes).

Of course, the big question would be; will these new crossings be tolled?  IIRC, the original bridges have a lifetime ban on tolls per the COE.
GPS does NOT equal GOD

southshore720

There were some VERY ambitious alternatives mentioned in the report.  I can't see them building a centralized new single bridge or draining the canal and eliminating the water crossing.  The path of least resistance is to replace in-kind, hopefully with a widened span.

The Ghostbuster

Both bridges, whether replaced or rehabilitated, should have a median to separate the two directions of traffic. I don't think either bridge should have the two directions on an undivided roadway.

Rothman

Looking for a better connection to US 6, too.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

froggie

#5
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on October 04, 2019, 04:22:44 PM
Both bridges, whether replaced or rehabilitated, should have a median to separate the two directions of traffic. I don't think either bridge should have the two directions on an undivided roadway.

I'm presuming you didn't read the executive summary of the PDF report...in particular the "Recommended Plan":

Quote from: From the Recommended Plan7) Each new bridge would include shoulder width on the vehicle deck.
8) Each new bridge would include a median to separate northbound and southbound vehicular traffic.

PHLBOS

Quote from: Rothman on October 04, 2019, 06:07:13 PMLooking for a better connection to US 6, too.
If you're referring to where US 6 meets MA 3 & the Sagamore Bridge (mainland side); that rotary was replaced with an interchange several years ago. 

The only rotary adjacent to the Cape Cod bridges is the MA 28 Bourne Rotary at the Cape Cod side of the Bourne Bridge.
GPS does NOT equal GOD

Rothman

Right, it's that awkward movement from MA 25 to get to US 6 that makes me scowl.  Freeway to traffic lights to freeway.  It's annoying.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

PHLBOS

Quote from: Rothman on October 07, 2019, 09:52:10 AMRight, it's that awkward movement from MA 25 to get to US 6 that makes me scowl.  Freeway to traffic lights to freeway.  It's annoying.
If your post is referring to the stretch of US 6 between the two bridges on the mainland side; I don't believe there are any plans to upgrade such to an expressway.
GPS does NOT equal GOD

bob7374

Quote from: PHLBOS on October 07, 2019, 10:40:09 AM
Quote from: Rothman on October 07, 2019, 09:52:10 AMRight, it's that awkward movement from MA 25 to get to US 6 that makes me scowl.  Freeway to traffic lights to freeway.  It's annoying.
If your post is referring to the stretch of US 6 between the two bridges on the mainland side; I don't believe there are any plans to upgrade such to an expressway.
MassDOT has released its own report on planned upgrades around the Cape bridges. No US 6 upgrades on the mainland side, they do want to add an additional lane eastbound between a Exits 1C (6A) and 2 on the Cape side, and relocated Exit 1C westbound:
http://blog.mass.gov/transportation/massdot-highway/massdot-releases-cape-cod-canal-transportation-study/?hootPostID=974334ffa39db0bfea6aa112df28c977

hotdogPi

Would it be possible to connect Sias Point Rd. to Agawam Point Rd. and/or Burgess Point Rd. to Mashnee Rd.?
Clinched, minus I-93 (I'm missing a few miles and my file is incorrect)

Traveled, plus US 13, 44, and 50, and several state routes

I will be in Burlington VT for the eclipse.

PHLBOS

Quote from: 1 on October 07, 2019, 12:35:32 PMWould it be possible to connect Sias Point Rd. to Agawam Point Rd. and/or Burgess Point Rd. to Mashnee Rd.?
You might want to look at an aerial/Google Earth image of that area.  Linking those two remote, dead-end, residential streets across a wider than the Cape Cod Canal, navigable waterway via a new bridge; not likely.
GPS does NOT equal GOD

froggie

Quote from: bob7374 on October 07, 2019, 12:24:51 PM
MassDOT has released its own report on planned upgrades around the Cape bridges. No US 6 upgrades on the mainland side

Not entirely true.  While there are no plans between the bridges on the mainland side, there are improvements proposed at the 6/25 interchange.  More specifically, streamlining the "rotary" into a roundabout with frontage roads for local business access, and adding a direct WB 6 to WB 25 ramp.  They didn't mention them on the page you linked to, but they're in the report itself.

DJ Particle

As someone who spent her whole childhood on Cape Cod, I am excited to hear that the Canal is finally getting new bridges, with all the specs I dreamed they would have (each direction: 2 travel lanes, aux lane, shoulder lane).

Now if they could only get rid of the final rotary, and make it into an "Exit 11" (using mile numbering) for MA-25, I'll be happy.  I'll be even happier if in addition to the proposed W US-6 to W MA-25 ramp, they also link the two routes eastbound with a stack ramp (It would fly under the new Bourne Bridge, but over US-6).  So you'd have Exit 9 being "{6} West [28] North", and a new eastbound-only Exit 10 being "{6} East to [3]", bypassing the large rotary completely.

Henry

Quote from: DJ Particle on October 17, 2019, 04:41:08 AM
As someone who spent her whole childhood on Cape Cod, I am excited to hear that the Canal is finally getting new bridges, with all the specs I dreamed they would have (each direction: 2 travel lanes, aux lane, shoulder lane).

Now if they could only get rid of the final rotary, and make it into an "Exit 11" (using mile numbering) for MA-25, I'll be happy.  I'll be even happier if in addition to the proposed W US-6 to W MA-25 ramp, they also link the two routes eastbound with a stack ramp (It would fly under the new Bourne Bridge, but over US-6).  So you'd have Exit 9 being "{6} West [28] North", and a new eastbound-only Exit 10 being "{6} East to [3]", bypassing the large rotary completely.
Yes, I'm all for filling in the missing link that would bypass the rotary in both directions. It would be nice to go from one bridge to the other without having to deal with traffic lights.
Go Cubs Go! Go Cubs Go! Hey Chicago, what do you say? The Cubs are gonna win today!

froggie

Quote from: DJ ParticleNow if they could only get rid of the final rotary, and make it into an "Exit 11" (using mile numbering) for MA-25, I'll be happy.

Are you referring to the rotary on the south side of the Bourne Bridge?  If so, the state's plan already includes converting that into an interchange.

Roadsguy

Are the plans publicly available in detail?
Mileage-based exit numbering implies the existence of mileage-cringe exit numbering.

froggie

The MassDOT study is, but you'd have to dig to find it.  I don't recall where offhand except somewhere on their website.

bob7374

Quote from: froggie on October 18, 2019, 08:53:23 AM
The MassDOT study is, but you'd have to dig to find it.  I don't recall where offhand except somewhere on their website.

A link to the study can be found at: https://www.mass.gov/cape-cod-canal-transportation-study

The Ghostbuster

This isn't in the vicinity of these two bridges, but are there any plans to expand the two-lane segment of the US 6 freeway to four lanes?

froggie


PHLBOS

There is now talk of the Commonwealth taking over control of the Cape Cod bridges... once the spans are replaced.
Transfer from Army Corps would not occur until after aging spans are replaced.

Towards the bottom of the article:
Quote from: Cape Cod Times ArticleThe Corps is obligated to keep the crossings toll-free; the state, however, is not. (State Rep. David) Vieira worried that, at some point to keep up with the costs of maintaining the bridges, the state could turn to tolls.

"That's a concern I have,"  he said.
GPS does NOT equal GOD

RobbieL2415

Quote from: PHLBOS on November 04, 2019, 02:30:40 PM
There is now talk of the Commonwealth taking over control of the Cape Cod bridges... once the spans are replaced.
Transfer from Army Corps would not occur until after aging spans are replaced.

Towards the bottom of the article:
Quote from: Cape Cod Times ArticleThe Corps is obligated to keep the crossings toll-free; the state, however, is not. (State Rep. David) Vieira worried that, at some point to keep up with the costs of maintaining the bridges, the state could turn to tolls.

"That's a concern I have,"  he said.
Please, no.  The Corps controls the Canal and the RR bridge.  This would cause all sorts of regulatory headaches.

pderocco

I'm surprised they're not talking about a third bridge in the middle, carrying a direct freeway connection between MA-25 on the mainland and US-6 on the Cape. It's an obvious route, and it would connect most of the Cape (everything except the Falmouth area) to most of the rest of the world (everything except the Boston area). And it would reduce the cost of replacing the other two bridges, since four travel lanes would probably be enough for the reduced traffic on them.

PHLBOS

Quote from: pderocco on November 17, 2019, 10:27:08 PMI'm surprised they're not talking about a third bridge in the middle, carrying a direct freeway connection between MA-25 on the mainland and US-6 on the Cape. It's an obvious route, and it would connect most of the Cape (everything except the Falmouth area) to most of the rest of the world (everything except the Boston area). And it would reduce the cost of replacing the other two bridges, since four travel lanes would probably be enough for the reduced traffic on them.
Even if a third bridge was built; the current spans are now over 80 years old and are nearing the end of their lifespan (typically 100 years).  Both bridges would still need to be replaced/overhauled regardless.
GPS does NOT equal GOD



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